Where is winning on our list?

Coach I'm going to be honest that last part shocked me a little bit after reading the whole post. First please understand that I'm not criticizing you because I want to congratulate you on what you have accomplished at that school. That to me is truly amazing how fast you have accomplished what you have based on your circumstances. You got some things there to be proud of.

I'll never judge or criticize why someone leaves a job - I may not understand why they left but I'll never say it was wrong. That is their decision to make. I left a school similar like you are at now. There were a ton of positives at that school and it was home to me for 10 years. Really great people and kids. I came in when it was at a low point and left after doing things they had never seen before. But I felt it was time to move on based on several factors.

To answer your question I feel that winning is an accomplishment rather than a goal. I believe it's a little crazy to put on some sort of list of preseason goal to win or win X # of games or win this championship or whatever. There are so many variables and luck that goes into winning it's hard to define exactly what winning is.

What I do is each year have the goal we are going to be better at the end of the year that what we were when we started. If we win 20 games or win district or win whatever then that is a byproduct of the effort and attitude we put into a whole season. Does that mean if we lose 20 games or fail to win district or whatever that we are failures? Not really and it depends on circumstances. Let's say you got a good team and have high expectations for them but as soon as the season starts it's one injury after another and you finish with a losing record and middle of the pack. I don't see this as failure becaue it would have been pretty easy to tank the season and let it ride but you probably kept the kids motivated to play and improve. That's probably a better job of coaching overall than winning 20 games with a good team.

In your situation are the wins the most important thing or where your program is overall in terms of talent / competitiveness? What is your goal overall when your career is over?

To me winning is a byproduct of what you teach, how the kids act in practice, effort and things of that nature. If we get those things then I like our chances when it comes to the win / loss record and how many championships we win.

From what I gather you are on the right track to improve that win / loss record and championships won. It's not easy to turn a program around nor will it be quick. You said the number of kids has increased dramatically since you've been there and that is great but it's going to be a couple of years before you see the benefit of that.

From what I can see you are in the right place, doing the right thing and will eventually see the right outcome if you are patient. Unfortunately nobody can guarantee success in any shape form or fashion but you can work your rearend off to try and achieve it. I know this - there are a bunch of guys who would love to trade places with you.

Thanks for the reply...

Guess I just need to write somethings down. Don’t get me wrong, I am extremely proud of what our staff, players, school, and community have accomplished in the last few years. I just get frustrated when the players coming into our program do not know what’s a secondary lead, etc. when everyone we play against have those kids that played growing up.

I also believe that winning is a by product of we teach and how we work. I guess to be honest we had the talent not to win a game this year, but the kids worked hard and resulted in double digit wins.

P.S. Family is first on my list and this is a great place to raise a family. At least for me it is a great place....not everyone likes the rural setting but we live on the lake with land close by to fish, hunt, ride 4-wheelers, etc.

My .02 cents worth.

Until they quit keeping score, the only thing more important than winning, is winning (or losing) with class. However, the win-loss record, doesn't always dictate winners and losers.

(IMO) The "desire" to win the right way is extremely important and should be very high on anyone's list.

Winning is the byproduct of other things that are important... Like preparation!

If we break wins down, each and every one of them will be determined by one or more of these four things. All the other things will fit into one of these four categories.

1 - Talent
2 - Effort
3 - Intelligence
4 - Luck

This is how I look at baseball. However, we should never confuse winning baseball games with the many much more important things in life.

Sounds like a strong season. Almost made the playoffs. So next year maybe you will win the extra inning game and go to the playoffs. Not sure why you assume your program has acheived all it can possibly achieve. My guess is that if a ball or two fell in different spots, your team would still be playing.

Congrats on a great turnaround. Building something like you are building is very special.

Coach I feel your pain and honestly I don't see it getting any better in the near future. Youth leagues / rec leagues / little league is not doing a good enough job of teaching the game and it's filtering up to where we are in high school. To me this is why you have to have a very solid JV coaching staff when it comes to fundamentals OR be able to have the JV team practice with the varsity so they can learn what you are teaching.

I've had that same question before of "how can we compete if we are teaching things they are already doing"? But what I've found is those schools are getting kids who don't know what a secondary lead is either but they teach them at some point. When they come to me I just smile real big and look at it as an opportunity to teach them correctly without having to break a lot of bad habits. It's new to them so they should pick it up quickly.

Quick story to go with what I just said. We got a kid who's throwing in the 90's but our catcher graduated last year so we weren't sure how successful we would be if we couldn't find someone to handle our guy throwing gas. We decided to make two Sophomores and a Freshman into catchers. I'm the catchers coach so I knew my work was cut out for me because none of these guys really caught before. One sophomore is a great athlete, the other sophomore is decent but nothing great. The freshman had very little experience in baseball.

After working with them in the preseason we let the athletic sophomore start but he struggled. We gave the freshman got the next chance and he hasn't left the lineup since. He's obviously made some mistakes but he has really done an excellent job.

The point I'm trying to make is that he's succeeded behind the plate in receiving and blocking because nobody had taught him how to do that before. When I coached him it was the first time he got that instruction so he was learning it the first time. That's why he's done well is he learned how to do it right the first time.

His throwing and hitting are a different story. His throwing mechanics were terrible to start with but then we had to change him to a catcher's motion. He started out throwing 2.8's to second and now he's down to a 2.4/5 and he threw a 2.3 in practice today. Same with hitting - someone taught him wrong when he was younger so we had to redo his whole swing. He started out the season being DH'd for and the last week or two he's been hitting for himself.

So his blocking and throwing are great because he never had bad habits to start with. His hitting and throwing needed a lot of work because someone already taught him wrong. The throwing and hitting took longer to fix because someone taught him wrong. I see that being the situation for you - you get a chance to take some blank slates and teach them how to do things correctly from the start.

I love the teaching of the game. It's so much fun to teach the skills / strategies to make my guys better. I tell my guys all the time preseason is my time to shine while the season is their time to shine. We work like dogs in the preaseason to know what to do, how to do it and when to do it so that way when the season starts I can sit back and watch. This is how I approach guys who don't know the first thing about the game when I get them.

I guess that's how I get through the day.

With regards to little leagues/youth leagues not teaching the game, does anyone have their players volunteer in the local youth leagues? I was thinking about this...it might be too much of a time commitment, but in some cases the seasons may work out ok where it would work. That way your HS kids are having to understand what you teach better because now they have to teach it. In addition, the little kids would probably love having the HS guys around, and you get a little piece of your HS program teaching out there for the up and coming guys. Is this reasonable, or too much time invested for little return (and maybe not even possible time wise for the players)?

I've said that for years and think it's a great idea. Only problem is that youth leagues are run in the spring time when HS kids are playing. If you can get a camp going with HS kids doing the instructing that would help some.

You can have LL practice on Sundays and the HS kids would be available

What I did with LL umps was use the HS players and they were permitted to instruct during the games---the LLer's loved it---in turn the LLer's would show up at the HS games and cheer the team on

Along the lines of getting younger kids involved, what are some of the other things you guys have done to help promote your program to the younger kids?

Here are some of the ones I have done or doing

1. Have player mentor at the elem. classes. Such as helping in reading groups, etc.

2. Have a featured elem. class or campus at each home ball game. They get a personalized ticket to get in the game free, class recongnized at the game over the PA, free popcorn.

3. Have a baseball buddies program. Elem. kids get to pick a player that they will get post cards from through out the year, a t-shirt, season pass, and they get to come out on the field after the game and be part of the post game huddle and run the bases after the game with the players giving them a high five as they come into home. I have charged $10 for this to cover the t-shirt and post cards.

One thing my high school did when I was in elementary school (but that had stopped doing by the time I got to high school) was schedule a midday game on a school day. Every school in the county had a field trip to see the varsity baseball game that day which was awesome. I'm sure it was cool for the high school players too because there would probably be 1200+ people at the game.

Difficulties would be finding another school willing to play you at that time. Maybe if you had another local school (either private or from a different county) that had a different spring break then they could come to your place over break. Or maybe work with a school where you play each other in a home and home at noon each time...so both schools could do the same.

I can see D8's dilema. He's a good coach. He turned a terrible program into a program that can compete. He has to be thinking what he could do if he received the talent typical that enters high school. He might lead them to states.

If raising your program to where it has prompted a 300+% increase in youth ball participation that typical talent might be arriving in a few years. Imagine taking a team from dust to states over a period of time. Imagine being the coach that took dust and built a winning tradition. It's been done before. You'll retire and watch your former high school play at D8 Stadium. You will have built a legacy.

I know several of our local HS coaches put on clinics for the LL coaches so that they can learn what to teach...Some also run week long camps during the summer where they can teach the pre-HS kids. They pay some of the HS kids to help at the camp too...

The summer programs that exist in and near your community are what I call your baseball infrastructure. If your area has a poor one you don't have a chance in high school to compete at the state level. You may get a team every 5 years or so that can but it won't be consistent.

Where I'm at the infrastructure is good but not great. If it was a little worse I couldn't take it; as it is I've tried things to improve it and some have worked and some have flopped.

D8, it sounds to me like you've done a great job and everything you've done is paying dividends... however, being rural (like my situation) puts limits on your infrastructure that only you can read and determine if you'll be pleased in that situation.

PG... your words (win or lose with class) are absolutely golden.

have a good day folks

I took over a program that had not went to the state playoffs in over 15 years. Had not had a college recruit in 10 years. Just fielding a team each year was pretty much the goal. Before I took the job I knew exactly what I was getting into. A community where going .500 was considered awesome. A mentality of baseball was played during the season and then you did other things. A youth league where you had to play every player a certain amount of innings and you could not punish kids for not coming to practice. No travel teams. A middle school program that had never won more games than they lost. And this in a league that was and is pathetic. No off season program. No fall program. Basically kids picked up the glove on the first day of tryouts and put it back in the closet after the last game of the hs season.

The facilities were pathetic. Our football field is our outfield. Graduation ceremonies held in the outfield of the baseball field. Football taking over the field as soon as the last game of the season is played. On and on I could go.

I had a plan.

#1- Change the mentality of the community.
#2- Make it special to be a member of the program.
#3- Invest. Make everyone that was a member of the program invest so much into the program in order to be a part of it that it actually meant something to them to be a part of it.
#4- Make the most of the facilities we had. Upgrade what I could upgrade. Have pride in what you have. Instill pride in the program , field.
#5- Look like a player , feel like a player , act like a player. Buy the best uniforms I could buy. Look the part.
#6- Demand everything and give everything in return.
#7- Start an off season program right away to teach and to force players to invest in their program.
#8- Start a fall program to teach , identify players , investment by the players into the program.
#9- Start camps in the summer. To identify players. To instill baseball to the community. To teach youth coaches and players. To have my players connect to the community and the community to them.
#10- Do everything in my power to make people understand that winning is an attitude. Winning is a desire to do more than everyone else. Winning is about wanting it and then doing what it takes to get it. Winning starts the first day after the season ends. Winning is about what you do when no one is watching.

As a coach I had to set an example. I had to be willing to do everything and more I was going to demand from my players. I was going to have to outwork everyone else. I was going to have to set a standard that would not be compromised both on the field and off of it.

When I came in I cut numerous upper classman that would not work in the off season. Would not practice hard. Would not conform to the way I demanded things be done. I had 75 players show up for my first day of tryouts my first year. My last year at my school I already knew who was going to show up and they had already invested a great deal in the season before it ever started. We had won before the first official practice.

During my time at this school we won the conf championship every year except 3. Those years we finished 2nd. We had 3 guys drafted and numerous players move on to play in college. Most importantly the kids learned that wanting to win is not what its about. Everyone wants to win. Its about preparing to win. Then expecting to win because you have earned it before the game was every played.

I will win. I refuse to not win. If I am going to coach I am going to win , period. I am going to outwork you. I am going to play harder than you. I am going to play smarter than you. I am willing to do more than you. I am going to beat your *** before the game is ever played. And then I am going to beat you when its played.

I have a simple plan. Invest. Invest so much that when the game is played you no longer want to win. You no longer hope you win. You expect to win. Yes winning is everything. Its everything to me. There is nothing that gives you more satisfaction in this game than taking a group of young men to do battle knowing they are prepared and determined to reap the rewards of their hard work. And looking in their eyes and knowing they believe they have already won the game. And then watching them collect their pay check.

Like I always say "Baseball is a game of investment. When you invest in the baseball bank you make a deposit everyday. Every swing , every sprint , every day you bust your butt when no one is watching your making a deposit. Then one day you are going to go to the baseball bank to make a withdrawal. Your going to go to the bank to collect your check. They call that game day. If you know you have made your deposits and you know in your heart that your money is there because you put it there. You wont walk up to the bank and wonder if you will get a check. You wont hope to get a check. You will demand your check. And you wont let anyone stop you from getting what you have already earned!"

That is winning. And I refuse to coach anyone or any team that does not deserve that check.

So Coach I wish you all the luck in the world. But you can not lose if you are winning. And if you can get young men to be winners they will not lose. They might run out of innings every once in awhile. But they will never lose.

This is my opinion on the way I look at winning at the High School level. Yes to me ideally wins on the field would be nice, but to me these things dont constitute a successful coach. There are so many other things that matter. I set a standard to make sure all of my kids respect the game, I make it a point to make them understand baseball is a privilege, not a right, so always remember that they are student/athletes with student being first. I want my guys to know that I am trying to arm them with the skills to not only be successful on the field, but in the bigger game called life. If I get guys to the collegiate level, and they get their degree, than that is a more satisfying victory to me than any game could be. If they dont decide to go to college, and get a full time job, grow up and become a happy, honest, respectfull person, that's a win.

To me these are some of the attributes that I classify as winning at the high school level.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Coach_May:

I will win. I refuse to not win. If I am going to coach I am going to win , period. I am going to outwork you. I am going to play harder than you. I am going to play smarter than you. I am willing to do more than you. I am going to beat your *** before the game is ever played. And then I am going to beat you when its played.

QUOTE]

To the first quote.....Well, if you are throwing down the gauntlet I will accept the challenge.



I want to thank all of you for the positive comments and support. I guess the real reason for this post was that I am thinking of taking an asst. principal job...

Coaching allows me to have my passion, hobby, and job all rolled into one bundle. When it gets down to it, coaching is not who I am, but what I do…..On the other hand baseball coaching is a lifestyle. I love the fact that my children get to grow up at the park. One of the first words my daughter said was “strike”, and one of the first songs my son could sing was the national anthem. I love helping to develop incoming freshmen into quality young men. That is one reason I have my family at the park at least once a day. I want the young men in my charge to see the interactions between a loving father and his children because so many of my players do not have a quality home life. My own young kids have grown up with 17-18 year olds at their birthday parties. The young men that I coach are like family. The late nights, meals on the road, inter-actions with parents, players, coaches….I could go on and on. AND I LOVE IT ALL!!!

I was sitting and watching the NJCAA DivIII world series this week-end and I came to the realization that I am not ready to give up what I have in coaching. I am truly blessed that I get to do what I do where I do it.

To all of you that are coaching hs baseball, I want to thank you, and know I am praying for you.

I'm glad you reached that decision. You seem like a guy I'm glad to have representing TX HS coaches. I'd hate to lose a good one.