soxnole
You forget the WS had a stretch where all Chicago and the rest of the USA thought they were done--
I truly appreciate the WS as a team and if your read my post on Quillen you will see that I am not biased--I think he should be MLB Manager of the year
But please take YOUR blinders off-- the NL is inferior to nobody--- you spew the same stuff for the White Sox as you do FSU-- get over it -- neither team is the best until they win the title--I appreciate your fervor but it is impacting your thought process
Have a nice day !!!
Every team has a tough stretch...in the case of my Sox...it was playing 8 over in the second half while the Indians had baseball's best record during that time.
No one thought they were DONE...other than a few sissy sportswriters who never played the game and out of towners that read too many sportswriter's BS.
If I have blinder's on...so be it...but speak to what is posted instead of changing the subject.
It is tougher to pitch in the AL than the NL.
Any comparison of the 2 leagues favors the AL since 1983.
Same as the NL was dominant in 1960-80.
No one thought they were DONE...other than a few sissy sportswriters who never played the game and out of towners that read too many sportswriter's BS.
If I have blinder's on...so be it...but speak to what is posted instead of changing the subject.
It is tougher to pitch in the AL than the NL.
Any comparison of the 2 leagues favors the AL since 1983.
Same as the NL was dominant in 1960-80.
Did everyone hear the huge crash this afternoon...it was the chip on soxnole's shoulder that fell off 
.....I do not care who wins this series...not a fan of either team...but I got to tell you soxnole...I find it quite difficult to read your posts...they are always so full of subliminal rage....ever stop and ask yourself....why???????? Seems to me you feel as if everybody is out to get you and yours...hope this does not transcend to your kids...sorry state of affairs
.....I do not care who wins this series...not a fan of either team...but I got to tell you soxnole...I find it quite difficult to read your posts...they are always so full of subliminal rage....ever stop and ask yourself....why???????? Seems to me you feel as if everybody is out to get you and yours...hope this does not transcend to your kids...sorry state of affairs
To all of you non-Chicagoans out there...
Is it now clear to you why no self-respecting Cub fan would ever root for the White Sox, even against the Cardinals????
Is it now clear to you why no self-respecting Cub fan would ever root for the White Sox, even against the Cardinals????
HC,
I'm hearing you!
Course they could care less what anyone else thinks.
Go WHOEVER plays the sox!
Good post catchermom03
I'm hearing you!
Course they could care less what anyone else thinks.
Go WHOEVER plays the sox!
Good post catchermom03
Soxnole, if the DH are "paid to hit", there are only a few giving value for money; the 10th ranked DH, Hatteberg, hit a hardly impressive for a guy whose only job is to hit .256; only 4 DH hit .300 - .308. Heck, there are only 4 DH in the top 50 BAs in the AL. Wouldn't you (in particular) expect the ratio to be AT LEAST 1:9 for that specialized position? By the numbers, they're just another batter, coming up 5 times a game.
Of course, with few exceptions, DH will hit better than pitchers. But your lack of experience with the NL game wouldn't allow you to consider the impact of pitcher change decisions, sacs & bunt defenses, double switches, IBBs, etc. and all the strategy that goes with playing the complete game and their individual effect on the situation/outcome.
By the way, if you want to compare IP, please use the Astos' two most productive pitchers this season, not just the ones whose names you recognize from Sportscenter. Pettite & Oswalt combined for a total of 463 IP. That would be more than Buerle & Garland.
The Sox have, obviously, done well in post season. But it's still a small sample size and as meaningful in your arguement of AL superiority, again, as saying the Devil Rays are a superior team to the Yankees because of their series in 2005. TR was discussing more meaningful season stats, given that you're trying to support a League Superiority arguement.
Your "evidence" comes down to "because I said so"....which I'm thinking doesn't hold anything in the way of water.
Of course, with few exceptions, DH will hit better than pitchers. But your lack of experience with the NL game wouldn't allow you to consider the impact of pitcher change decisions, sacs & bunt defenses, double switches, IBBs, etc. and all the strategy that goes with playing the complete game and their individual effect on the situation/outcome.
By the way, if you want to compare IP, please use the Astos' two most productive pitchers this season, not just the ones whose names you recognize from Sportscenter. Pettite & Oswalt combined for a total of 463 IP. That would be more than Buerle & Garland.
The Sox have, obviously, done well in post season. But it's still a small sample size and as meaningful in your arguement of AL superiority, again, as saying the Devil Rays are a superior team to the Yankees because of their series in 2005. TR was discussing more meaningful season stats, given that you're trying to support a League Superiority arguement.
Your "evidence" comes down to "because I said so"....which I'm thinking doesn't hold anything in the way of water.
catchermom...thanks for the analysis, and worry about your own children!
Holden...There are NO self-respecting cub fans!
Orlando...Good effort (and point) on your part..I stand corrected regarding Oswalt/Pettite. Btw, the Red Sox did not sweep the Cards, nor did the AL win the meaningful all-star games, nor did the Sox win 99 because I said so.
Holden...There are NO self-respecting cub fans!
Orlando...Good effort (and point) on your part..I stand corrected regarding Oswalt/Pettite. Btw, the Red Sox did not sweep the Cards, nor did the AL win the meaningful all-star games, nor did the Sox win 99 because I said so.
My daddy told me --trust a Cubbie fan before a White Sox fan--- by the way how long has it been for the Sox to win the title?
Smart daddy. Very smart.
Sox won it in 17
cubs in 08.
Virtually everything the cubs do, the Sox do better.
1906, All-time record, City Series, 1959/1945 and on and on.
cubs in 08.
Virtually everything the cubs do, the Sox do better.
1906, All-time record, City Series, 1959/1945 and on and on.
OMG!!!
GO ASTROS!!! Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez!!!
GO ASTROS!!! Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez!!!
As a fan of the Astros, I hope this prediction is incorrect. Go Houston! 
TRHit:
Here's what your daddy should have said...White Sox fan-watch your wallet Cubs fan-watch your portfolio!
Here's what your daddy should have said...White Sox fan-watch your wallet Cubs fan-watch your portfolio!
White Sox in 5. Better players at every position.
Close call at 2nd. Would have taken the Biggio of 10 years ago, but Tadahito now.
If they beat Oswalt, then White Sox in 4.
Close call at 2nd. Would have taken the Biggio of 10 years ago, but Tadahito now.
If they beat Oswalt, then White Sox in 4.
Not trying to rain, but weren't the 2004 Cards supposed to roll too? Weren't they supposed to be invincible? If the Sox somehow lose to Clemens it's a coin flip. They rolled up the Angels who were over rated, now they are pitching simulated games waiting for the series. I think they get a little letdown/performance anxiety.
In the end they are too strong in all departments.
I like the Sox in 7.
In the end they are too strong in all departments.
I like the Sox in 7.
It's baseball.
Anything is possible.
2 great staffs.
If the Astros pitch and hit like they did in the NLCS it will be a great series.
One thing is for sure...this Sox team is focused.
Anything is possible.
2 great staffs.
If the Astros pitch and hit like they did in the NLCS it will be a great series.
One thing is for sure...this Sox team is focused.
I admit they impress the hell out of me. I like the Stro's but I'm pulling for the Sox. A players dad is a neighbor.
The series will be close, but after review it's the Astros in 7.
Why? Pitching. Even though CWS have very fine pitchers and I take nothing away from them
But if you look beyond
CWS and
. J Contreras CWS .682 284 2 20 2 28 2 2 228 225 1.08 1.23 .372 .307
2. M Buehrle CWS .667 348 2 2 4 8 3 5 301 254 1.30 1.18 .380 .295
3. J Garland CWS .643 331 0 2 3 3 6 0 302 237 1.38 1.17 .399 .298
4. F Garcia CWS .636 355 1 20 2 19 5 1 305 224 1.47 1.25 .408 .307
5. O Hernandez CWS .500 231 2 3 1 19 2 1 135 152 0.96 1.46 .464 .352
HOU and
1. A Pettitte HOU .654 284 0 2 0 5 4 4 296 191 1.65 1.03 .348 .268
2. R Oswalt HOU .625 361 1 5 3 3 4 1 313 220 1.52 1.20 .389 .302
3. R Clemens HOU .619 216 1 3 5 8 4 2 255 189 1.43 1.01 .284 .261
4. B Backe HOU .556 248 2 5 1 4 4 0 167 176 1.02 1.46 .432 .344
5. W Rodriguez HOU .500 225 3 3 2 5 6 2 164 134 1.37 1.46 .456 .352
and you compare WHIPS = walks+hits/IPS
the Astros should win.
Pettitte WHIPS = 1.03
Oswalt WHIPS = 1.20
Clemens WHIPS = 1.01
Backe WHIPS = 1.46
Rodriguez WHIPS = 1.46
Total 6.16 / 5 = 1.232
CWS
J Contreras WHIPS = 1.23
2. M Buehrle WHIPS = 1.18
3. J Garland WHIPS = 1.17
4. F Garcia WHIPS = 1.25
5. O Hernandez WHIPS = 1.46
TOTAL = 6.29 / 5 = 1.258
That's about a .025 edge to the Astros which means that over a 7 game series the CSW will give up about .175 more runs than the Astros will. That's enough to beat them.
Astros in 7. But it will be close
Why? Pitching. Even though CWS have very fine pitchers and I take nothing away from them
But if you look beyond
CWS and
. J Contreras CWS .682 284 2 20 2 28 2 2 228 225 1.08 1.23 .372 .307
2. M Buehrle CWS .667 348 2 2 4 8 3 5 301 254 1.30 1.18 .380 .295
3. J Garland CWS .643 331 0 2 3 3 6 0 302 237 1.38 1.17 .399 .298
4. F Garcia CWS .636 355 1 20 2 19 5 1 305 224 1.47 1.25 .408 .307
5. O Hernandez CWS .500 231 2 3 1 19 2 1 135 152 0.96 1.46 .464 .352
HOU and
1. A Pettitte HOU .654 284 0 2 0 5 4 4 296 191 1.65 1.03 .348 .268
2. R Oswalt HOU .625 361 1 5 3 3 4 1 313 220 1.52 1.20 .389 .302
3. R Clemens HOU .619 216 1 3 5 8 4 2 255 189 1.43 1.01 .284 .261
4. B Backe HOU .556 248 2 5 1 4 4 0 167 176 1.02 1.46 .432 .344
5. W Rodriguez HOU .500 225 3 3 2 5 6 2 164 134 1.37 1.46 .456 .352
and you compare WHIPS = walks+hits/IPS
the Astros should win.
Pettitte WHIPS = 1.03
Oswalt WHIPS = 1.20
Clemens WHIPS = 1.01
Backe WHIPS = 1.46
Rodriguez WHIPS = 1.46
Total 6.16 / 5 = 1.232
CWS
J Contreras WHIPS = 1.23
2. M Buehrle WHIPS = 1.18
3. J Garland WHIPS = 1.17
4. F Garcia WHIPS = 1.25
5. O Hernandez WHIPS = 1.46
TOTAL = 6.29 / 5 = 1.258
That's about a .025 edge to the Astros which means that over a 7 game series the CSW will give up about .175 more runs than the Astros will. That's enough to beat them.
Astros in 7. But it will be close
RR....
Another example of why I believe anyone who spends a ton of time with meaningless STATISTICS is nuts!
Whips are used as toys and in the Wild Wild West.
White Sox in 4 or 5.
Go White Sox!
Another example of why I believe anyone who spends a ton of time with meaningless STATISTICS is nuts!
Whips are used as toys and in the Wild Wild West.
White Sox in 4 or 5.
Go White Sox!
I still can't believe you NL folks don't take the fact that 1 hitter out of 9 can't hit!
Adjusting for that fact, the Sox have the edge...they did not get to relax and blow away 11% of the lineup!
Adjusting for that fact, the Sox have the edge...they did not get to relax and blow away 11% of the lineup!
soxnole
you and your ilk dont see beyond their nose they are so blinded by their bias.
By the way guys you play 24/7 with the stats but they do not include the human factor as in Clemens and his heart,
Also keep in mind that Roger and Andy have WS experience and experience for pitchers is key in the WS.
Contreras has been a 6 month pitcher to date--lets see how he does on the big stage
I picked the Cards and that didnt work so I like the Astros in 7
you and your ilk dont see beyond their nose they are so blinded by their bias.
By the way guys you play 24/7 with the stats but they do not include the human factor as in Clemens and his heart,
Also keep in mind that Roger and Andy have WS experience and experience for pitchers is key in the WS.
Contreras has been a 6 month pitcher to date--lets see how he does on the big stage
I picked the Cards and that didnt work so I like the Astros in 7
is WELL within the standard of deviation. Based on WHIPS it's a pick'em, IMHO. the theory assumes each starter will pitch EXACTLY as he has so far. The human element is Exactly why few bet on baseball.quote:.025 runs difference
The Sox have more offense and most games are played on the larger field, favoring the Sox at home.
But Like Ali said "Everybody got a game plan .....till they get punched in the mouth."
Game 1 will tell the tale. The Sox are very lucky they don't face Oswalt 3 times. He reminds me of my old dog with a pork chop bone. I could either not get bit, or get that bone back, but not both.
TRHit, you are right. I think the experience of WS play by Pettite and Clemens will go far in this series. I am hoping Baggs and Bigg get their rings. My team was out early, so I think it will be 'Stros in 6. When they play in the NL city, there will be no nine-inning complete games. Oz man will have to pinch hit for those pitchers. Anyway, should be a low scoring, defense and pitching oriented series. JUST LIKE I LIKE IT! Back to basics, who can bunt, squeeze, and move runners along. Play some old school baseball and let the managers make the chess moves. Looking forward too it! Many people won't watch, because the usual Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, aren't in there. But for baseball purists, it will be very enjoyable. What a great season!
White Sox had best record in AL and faced better competition through playoffs and made it look easy. Both have great starting pitching, relief pitching, defensive infields, catching, speed,outfield, managers, coaches, but the key to who wins is ASTROS have 3 ex JUCO starting pitchers Clemens,Oswalt and Pettite Go Stros even though the sox are favored
Another aspect to consider:
I think is Ozzie is one heck of a manager but he has never managed without the DH---HMMMMMMMMM
Should be interesting to see how he handles it
I think is Ozzie is one heck of a manager but he has never managed without the DH---HMMMMMMMMM
Should be interesting to see how he handles it
quote:Originally posted by BeenthereIL:
Another example of why I believe anyone who spends a ton of time with meaningless STATISTICS is nuts!
A most uneducated comment. The 2004 WS champion Red Sox rely heavily on performance statistics for player evaluation (trades, free agent aquisition, etc...) and for team/player scouting reports in competition.
dbg....
...And they took their statistics from last year and got SMOKED by the White Sox this year....
Go White Sox!
...And they took their statistics from last year and got SMOKED by the White Sox this year....
Go White Sox!
quote:as in Clemens and his heart
If Piazza was a REAL MAN, he would have pounded "...Clemens and his heart" when Clemens
threw that broken bat at him a few years ago.
BEEN
what does Piazza have to do with this conversation?
what does Piazza have to do with this conversation?
Tr, Contreras has been a 3 month pitcher. 1st half he was awful - unquestionably their #5. 2nd half, one of the best in big league history.
I think the experience factor is nil. White Sox had virtually none and they hammered 2 teams loaded with playoff/WS experience. Once the first 1/2 inning is over butterflies are gone and it comes down to who can get it done physically.
I think the experience factor is nil. White Sox had virtually none and they hammered 2 teams loaded with playoff/WS experience. Once the first 1/2 inning is over butterflies are gone and it comes down to who can get it done physically.
Been, I'm sure Piazza would have loved to get at Clemens but he's a team guy & to his credit didn't sacrifice a long suspension to unleash his rage.
BT,
Don't be so obtuse! Using statistical analysis doesn't guarantee results. The information is used and cross-referenced with scouting reports offering an opportunity make more informed decisions.
Don't be so obtuse! Using statistical analysis doesn't guarantee results. The information is used and cross-referenced with scouting reports offering an opportunity make more informed decisions.
First of all...there are a great many baseball people that believe it's easier to manage in the NL than the AL. Ozzie, Jack McKeon, LaRussa and others have been quoted that it's actually harder to judge WHEN to change pitchers in the AL, BECAUSE of the DH and many NL managers fall into the trap of pinch hitting to AVOID criticism.
Second. Contreras DID NOT have an awful 1st half. Even goofy TR and his ilk can see that! Contreras actually had severe control problems along with ....the lowest batting average against him in the league. Batters actually hit him more successfully in the 2nd half...he eliminated the walks and that was really the only difference.
Maybe we should just wait till after the Series because as we all know...just when you think you have baseball figured...you don't!
Second. Contreras DID NOT have an awful 1st half. Even goofy TR and his ilk can see that! Contreras actually had severe control problems along with ....the lowest batting average against him in the league. Batters actually hit him more successfully in the 2nd half...he eliminated the walks and that was really the only difference.
Maybe we should just wait till after the Series because as we all know...just when you think you have baseball figured...you don't!
soxnole
ignore button is now up--- no need to even confront you with facts
see ya goofy !!!
denis
I agree with you with regard to Piazza--he knew the consequences and I also think the NY press blew it out of proper perspective
ignore button is now up--- no need to even confront you with facts
see ya goofy !!!
denis
I agree with you with regard to Piazza--he knew the consequences and I also think the NY press blew it out of proper perspective
soxnole, Contreras,Ozzie, Cooper have all come out and said he was plain bad in the 1st half, so were his overall #'s. He walked 2 fewer in 1st half vs. 2nd half and strikeouts were almost identical as were innings pitched.
1st half he was 4-5 with 4.26 while team was posting best record in baseball. He was 5.81 in June and 5.71 in July - there was talk of pulling him from rotation.
2nd half 11-2 with 2.96 including amazing 2.14 in Aug. and 1.99 in Sept. His k/bb ratio is almost identical in both halves and he gave up more hits in 2nd half while also having worse opponent Ba in 2nd half. Quite amazing when you break it down but by any measure not a good 1st half.
1st half he was 4-5 with 4.26 while team was posting best record in baseball. He was 5.81 in June and 5.71 in July - there was talk of pulling him from rotation.
2nd half 11-2 with 2.96 including amazing 2.14 in Aug. and 1.99 in Sept. His k/bb ratio is almost identical in both halves and he gave up more hits in 2nd half while also having worse opponent Ba in 2nd half. Quite amazing when you break it down but by any measure not a good 1st half.
correction, he did give up 21 fewer walks in 2nd half and just as big 9 fewer hr's.
Soxnole,
With each disparagingly personal post - you lose credibility at an ever increasing rate.
My friendly advice to you:
Breath deep - and try to post an opinion without a personal attack.
Or get a new id.
With each disparagingly personal post - you lose credibility at an ever increasing rate.
My friendly advice to you:
Breath deep - and try to post an opinion without a personal attack.
Or get a new id.
White Sox win this Series.........Better hitting.........Plain and simple..... 
Actually, the Cardinals had better hitting all season than the Astros....but isn't there some old baseball adage about Good Pitching Stopping something? The Cards also beat Oswalt-Clemens-Pettite in the season, but that didn't count for squat this last week. Season's over. Now it's just however many of the seven games it takes.
If the "best team" always won, Wild Cards wouldn't be in the World Series, let alone this recent spate of their winning it.
The schoolyard posturing here is cute and all, but the games are played elsewhere.
I'd have to say I have one wish for the Series that I don't currently have much faith will come true --- and that's that the umpiring doesn't impact the games.
If the "best team" always won, Wild Cards wouldn't be in the World Series, let alone this recent spate of their winning it.
The schoolyard posturing here is cute and all, but the games are played elsewhere.
I'd have to say I have one wish for the Series that I don't currently have much faith will come true --- and that's that the umpiring doesn't impact the games.
As a Giants fan from the west coast, I'm really hoping the Astros will win it, and I hope it goes 7. I think it'll be very sweet to see Bagwell and Biggio (both class acts) get rings, and for the Rocket to pitch in one more, and probably final, World Series. Can you imagine having Clemens starting game 7 vs. any of the Sox pitchers? That'll be something we talk about for years if we're lucky enough to see it.