Who was that Scout?

I know the advisor who has been with him since he was 16/17!

Ha, likewise. Guy is pretty well-known

And Bumgarner was a heck of an amateur. Reaaaaaal good.

 

Props to him. What a dominant postseason.

That guy never threw a pitch!

It seems a lot of people were looking at Bum in high school and considering him a top pick.  Here's his profile from Perfect Game:

 

Madison Bumgarner is a 2007 left hand pitcher from South Caldwell HS, residing in Lenoir, NC. He has a big league type body, with a strong and powerful 6'5" 220 lb. frame. Bumgarner first started being noticed nationally this past spring but he’s been a focal point in western North Carolina for some time before that. He ranked #5 among the PG National Top 85 pitchers and earned himself an invitation to the 2006 Aflac All-American Classic. Frankly, he looks like he can do just about anything he wants to do athletically and probably can. Bumgarner's best talents are on the mound but he could be a high level college, if not professional, hitting prospect if that was his direction. He throws easily from a high 3/4 slot with a low energy delivery that creates leverage to the plate. His fastball is in the 92-95 mph range and he showed the ability to cut it and keep down in the zone. Not simply a power fastball guy, Bumgarner also throws a big sweeping 75 mph power curveball and an 82 mph change-up that has some late fading action. At the plate he showed off a short, powerful swing and the ball jumped off his bat. His hands really work in his swing. Bumgarner has good present day power and potentially plus power at the pro level. No doubt he is near the top of both pro and D1 LHP depth charts. Look for him to be considered for an early round selection next June.

Yes, I fully recognize all of those PG things.  Plenty of pitchers have those.

Not one of those mention what we saw in 3 post seasons...the ability to compete and be calm and really tough, mentally.  I know scouting reports get into mental makeup.

I wonder what that Giants scout saw which got into that scouting report...which no one can calculate at a showcase?

MadBum was a known commodity in HS.  Panik was an absolute stud at St, John's.  These guys didn't just appear one day.  They could play when they were younger and can play now.

The best players have been the best for a long time. Wade Davis, Arod, Varitek, Wade Davis, Andrew Miller, Billy Butler, Eric Hurley, Rick and Jemile Weeks, etc were all Florida high school stars, then national high school stars. Very well scouted players prior to the draft.

I want to know who the coach was in the Low a system that tried to change his throwing style?  Wonder if he's still a pitching coach?

Truth is there is no scout capable of predicting what Bumgarner did in the World Series.

 

The scout that signed him was one of many that thought he was a first round talent. Still it is true that there is one very proud scout out there right now.

 

Anyway, what he just did is one of the most amazing feats ever in MLB history.

 

Odd there isn't any talk YET about pitch counts and recovery time.  I remember a few years ago there was a small college pitcher that threw a lot of pitches in three days trying to win a college championship.  Despite that pitcher not being a pro prospect, and it being his last game, everyone went nuts and called it abuse. I suppose to that pitcher those games were just as important as these games were to Bumgarner.

 

I have mixed emotions over Madison's unbelievable accomplishment.   In a period of time when everyone is trying to protect pitchers, we have this on the biggest stage of all. Wonder how many youth coaches will copy this?

 

I know it's the World Series. But the importance of anything is different from one person to another. As happy as I am for Madison, I'm concerned over the example that was set. I'm guessing that this took a little of the fun out of it for Bochy as he was counting those pitches.  BTW, I don't want to cut down the decision, it took guts, and Bruce Bochy is a great manager. I'm more concerned with how others will see things.

Good points PG.

 

There is such an awareness now about pitch counts and arm care for pitchers, as well as the limits that I don't think this one game will change the approach at the lower levels.

 

You are correct that this issue does come up every year in the DIII World Series as only a handful of the pitchers are pro prospects and it is not unusual to see pitchers throw a lot of innings in a short period of time. Some pitchers with an easy delivery or ones that are not considered a "power pitcher" (both in velocity and mechanics) seem to be able to get away with it, 

 

I think we all watched a performance that is likely not going to be repeated anytime soon.  

Good post PG.
I was kind of wondering how his agent feels.
The difference here is that he is an established professional, expectations are higher and he will sign a huge contract regardless of injury or not.
Were you refering to the pitcher from manhatten college?  I remember that heated debate.  He was drafted eventually (?) and I believe recently had TJS?  I do believe he never made a ml roster. He probably never will either.

I hope the youth coaches who do try to follow this example follow Bochy's example EXACTLY and give similar workloads ONLY to their pitchers who stand 6'5", weigh 235, and throw in the mid-90's with minimal apparent effort. 

I think there needs to be balance with things.  Billy Martin used to say pitchers rust out rather than wear out.  It seemed some of his pitching staffs were in ruins after he left.

 

Some guys get hurt with minimal innings thrown so pitch count is not the end-all be-all solution.  Pitching is/can be hazardous to your health depending on a variety of factors including genetics.  I think Bumgarner took a reasonable risk last night given the circumstances.  There is no guarantee he will ever throw another world series pitch.  He is a large/strong young man and he appears to not be a max-effort guy.  I agree with the decision to let him pitch.  If he gets injured next year, so be it.

He never had any stressful innings and he doesnt throw all fastballs.
He owns a farm/ranch.   He looks like a farm boy.

It will be interesting to see how Bumgarner pitches next season. He had a lot of work this year (exceeded 2013 by 70 innings) capped with last night's effort. In 2013 Uehara and Breslow pitched more than they've ever pitched before. Uehara ran out of gas in August in 2014. Breslow never got it together in 2014. The difference is Bumgarner is younger and a starter. But, we'll see.

 

Grabbing the gold ring versus the future is always a dilemma. The Nationals were mostly criticized for not going for it with Strasburg.

I could provide a very long list of low effort, big pitchers who have had TJ surgery.  Could put together an even longer list of high effort small guys who have not had TJ.

 

What took place was not without risk.  To think it was is a very dangerous message to send to young kids and stupid coaches.  There are many big strong young kids out there that can be and are taken advantage of.  

 

Wish Doc Andrews would talk about this.  After a complete game (9 innings) three days is not considered enough time off.  So two days is very rare, even in the World Series.  

 

We can say... Right pitcher - Right time!  Reward is worth the risk.  Problem is, how many will think winning any championship is a reward worth that risk. The problem isn't those of us that understand, it is the many others that don't understand how dangerous it is to ride your horse to win a game.

The fact he pitched will on two days rest is remarkable. A few others have tried it without as much success.

In season Bumgarner likely would have had a bullpen session a couple days after a start, wouldn’t he?  In season with a scheduled start two more days away, he never would have been in a game. With months to rest, how much damage could 60 or so  pitches do to an arm?  I am not advocating doing it, but just asking if the game situation would be similar to having the BP session?

 

For a disclaimer a 7th game of a world series would be the only time I would ever consider throwing any pitcher without the recommended or needed rest.

 

 

 His motion usually  seems effortless, I thought he looked kinda stiff during the 1^st couple of throws last night, but he settled right in. Starters typically have a set routine preparing for a game to get loose, not being able to go through his usual pre game rituals makes the relief roll even more impressive.

 

The next season after new career highs in innings and pitches thrown usually take a toll, I hope he rebounds and has  another great season, he is impressive to watch.

 

I am like PG I hope some youth coach doesn’t use the WS situation as an excuse next summer to walk away with a trophy,  or some league title.

Yesterday would have been his side day. 50 pitches.
Any coach not recognizing the difference between Madison pitching in the WS and a youth pitcher pitching in a tourney shouldnt be coaching.

Jerry,

My comment earlier was not meant to convey approval of the decision--I'm not qualified to offer an opinion on that subject.  Rather, it was to describe a category of pitchers that has a population of zero on 99.999% of travel teams.

Don't forget there are as many parents who saw that and will advocate the their kid can do it and be a hero as there are coaches who will do it.  

Lets give parent/coaches a little bit more credit than that.

 

Not to mention the fun it took out of it for Santiago Casilla although I'm sure any disappointment was dampered by a new W/S ring.

If there's a bigger stage than pitching to win Game 7 of the World Series, I'm fine with kids throwing on 2 days rest over 100+ pitches.

 

Oh right, there aren't any. 

What Madison Bumgarner did was worth it. A championship. This is what he gets paid millions for. To win championships.Bumgarner came to pitch, demanded the ball and backed it up. Bumgarner is what a real ace is.  He can pitch for me any day of the week. This is why what the Nationals did with Strasburg was a joke. Nationals don't deserve to go after a title.

luv baseball,
Get your facts straight. He already has signed a 5 year extension worth 35 million.

luv baseball what happened to your post that Madison was getting paid chump change?  His extension goes into effect next season. I do believe his current has incentives. You can google this info.

The Strasburg situation was much different.

I realized I was quoting his 2012 salary about 1 minute after I posted it and deleted it....even before you took me to the woodshed for it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10...nd-proud-father.html

 

Great read here on Mad-Bum from NY Times