Whose responsibility

If it is health or injury related you have every reason to call the coach.

Well, this is a medical issue and yes, you should contact the coach with your concerns.

Every injury doesn't require a coach conference.  Do you want him to play?  Has the Dr. said no play?  If the Doc said no play I believe the Doc has to release him.  Sounds like you and your son need to be on the same page of how you see this moving forward. 

Now if you told your son he can't play and to let the coach know about the situation.  If your son choose not to be honest about his injury with the coach than that is something you and your son need to fix.  If your son was honest with the coach and coach played him anyway than that is something a parent should approach the coach about.    

I'd call the school's athletic trainer instead and just ask what he or she thinks of his foot. 

The trainer will take it from there and make sure the proper parties are aware and participating in whatever decisions need to be made--if they aren't already.

What athletic trainer? lol.  Some schools have them but many don't. 

Did he get an x-Ray?  Is it taped? Not understanding just  what medical advice u got. 

Definately talk w coach and relay medical info. Many 15 yr olds might not understand just what dr.  was saying. Shouldn't play unless a medical prof. Says he can or can try. No sense in hurting it more. 

playball2011 posted:

What athletic trainer? lol.  Some schools have them but many don't.  

Please send me a dialog with the names of some public schools (other than extremely tiny, extremely remote) that field interscholastic sports and don't have athletic trainers. Maybe they don't have the full certification the trainers in my area have, maybe they aren't full time school employees, but I'll be astonished if, in this day and age of risk aversion, there are "many" schools fielding sports teams without also having some arrangement for trainer support. 

I called the coach .My son must have not been very clear( my son said that I was ok with him playing) . The coach was very understanding  . He did mention that the trainer can tape his foot. I didn't even think about the trainer. I told him I want to keep him out until I find out if he's ok. Needless to say my son wasn't very happy . It is a good reminder to me how different a teenagers brain works. I would have done the same thing at his age . It's a reality check for me on how my sons brain works.

First let me rant a little.  When you go to a doctor it is imperative that you have in writing from a doctor what your athlete can and cannot do when he leaves that office.  If not you are opening a huge can of worms for the coach and school if he further injures it.  As an AD nothing ticks me off more when an athlete goes to a doctor - either referred by our staff or on their own - comes back and there's no idea if they are to be held out or not.  Depending on the state there are rules in place that overall say if you see a doctor you cannot return unless there is a note from them saying you are clear.  Even if you go for a hangnail that is plucked off in 12 seconds you need a note because you saw a doctor.  With more and more states adopting concussion laws and procedures it's even more important to know exactly what is and is not allowed, what paperwork is need and who is allowed to monitor the return to play protocols.  I cover this every sports season with our athletes and parents but there is always people who don't bring back notes.  Yes the doctor may say "wait 3 days and if it doesn't hurt you're good to go" but we don't know that.  Please, please, please get notes when you come back.  It also helps if the injury is significant enough to miss school time and you lose eligibility due to attendance.  There is now proof you had a valid reason why you weren't at school.  In NC I have won several appeals for kids who missed due to injury / illness and were ineligible.

Should the parent step in this situation?  Well I'm a HUGE supporter of teaching kids to fight their own battles first but they are still kids and they still don't quite understand the bigger picture.  Parents should work with their kids in approaching the coach and / or medical personnel the school has.  Involve your kid but don't rely on your kid.  You still have to parent and by involving / teaching them you're doing a great service to them.

As for the every school should have a trainer.  I totally agree with you.  It's just not gonna happen anytime soon and I believe there are MANY schools who do not have an ATC.  My school does not but we have a first responder.  They are good but still not what you want.  Before I became AD we had a trainer and when the previous AD retired so did the trainer.  In NC you must have a trainer or first responder at football practice or you cannot practice.  As my first summer on the job progressed I interviewed about 12 trainers and all of them turned me down due to the low pay and long hours.  Our school system - at the time - wasn't willing to pay what they are worth.  I couldn't even find a first responder either.  We were about a week from starting practice when we got a lady on our teaching staff who is a RN to agree to do it.  I called the state to see if she could do it since we missed the first responder training.  They said no.  I told them we were not going to have football then and the huge mess this was going to create was going to be directed to them.  About 3 days later they called back and said if our lady would take a few NFHS online courses they would allow it.

A local doctor is trying to bring a program to our county which would provide a trainer for all 7 high schools in the county.  It would cost around $300K a year and he wants the local hospital to be the major sponsor by throwing in $150K.  Myself, a principal in the county, director of student services and the guy just under him went to the hospital with the local doctor went to a finance committee of the hospital to make our case.  I spoke about how we currently do not have anyone lined up for next year and I'm not sure what I'm going to do.  The principal said they just lost their trainer and not sure what they are going to do.  The big guys at the county school board explained how they plan to increase money to help support this program over a period of years.  The committee sent the request to the full hospital board with support.  Everything looked great except behind the scenes this one guy on the finance committee couldn't understand where the hospital money was going because we were going to basically buy the structure from a group in SC and make it our own.  They were wanting to branch out into other states (franchising) and we were going to be the first.  The money would stay local and help our kids but this guy couldn't understand that.  He got it tabled and right now the whole thing is up in the air.  I have no idea if it will pass with the hospital or not or what.  I think I have someone lined up to be the first responder but who knows?

Should there be a trainer at every high school - without a doubt but the reality of the situation is that schools typically cannot afford it.  Also, why would anyone with that much education who could get paid what they are worth at a local doctor / rehab place take a job at a school making around 60% less?  The whole situation sucks and is very stressful.

Coach 2709, 

Is there no one at your school to perform the function of clearing injured athletes to play?

I guess I'm spoiled because all our schools have at least one, often 2 ATC's. I've been very impressed by their professionalism and accessibility over the years. They're confident in their skills, and they know their limitations. They conduct pre-season meetings with parents to explain policies & procedures and train on concussion protocols, etc. They publish their cell phone numbers and promptly return calls. There is always a trainer either at the field or on campus a short golf cart ride away any time the school hosts any interscholastic games. 

Our trainers are affiliated with local rehab places.  They are contracted to have someone there after school and durring all events.  It works pretty good.  The rehab place gets the publicity and has connections with the doctors.  The trainer can work mornings at their facility and head to school in the afternoon.  

Swampboy posted:

playball2011 posted:

What athletic trainer? lol.  Some schools have them but many don't.  

Please send me a dialog with the names of some public schools (other than extremely tiny, extremely remote) that field interscholastic sports and don't have athletic trainers. Maybe they don't have the full certification the trainers in my area have, maybe they aren't full time school employees, but I'll be astonished if, in this day and age of risk aversion, there are "many" schools fielding sports teams without also having some arrangement for trainer support. 

37% of high schools across the nation employ a full-time Certified Athletic Trainer. Approximately 70% of high schools have "some sort of arrangement." It's pitiful and disgusting. Every school should have at least one Athletic Trainer on staff, if they choose to have athletics.

http://natajournals.org/doi/pd...85/1062-6050-50.2.03

Swampboy posted:

Coach 2709, 

Is there no one at your school to perform the function of clearing injured athletes to play?

I guess I'm spoiled because all our schools have at least one, often 2 ATC's. I've been very impressed by their professionalism and accessibility over the years. They're confident in their skills, and they know their limitations. They conduct pre-season meetings with parents to explain policies & procedures and train on concussion protocols, etc. They publish their cell phone numbers and promptly return calls. There is always a trainer either at the field or on campus a short golf cart ride away any time the school hosts any interscholastic games. 

Swampboy 

Yes....ish.  Our first responder is there to handle very minor injuries and clear those.  But anything more than that no they cannot.  I'm very grateful for our first responders but they are not the same as an ATC.  The guy who covered us this past football season was difficult to talk him into doing it.  He got afraid of liability if something bad happened.  What got him signed on was I told him if there was any doubt to hold them out and / or send them to the doctor.  I wish they could help with rehab and preventative maintenance but these are also teachers, coaches from other sports or community volunteers with their own jobs.  Their time is already taken up with their career then we take even more time away having them be our first responder.  This is what makes me want to find the guy who held up the program the local doctor and convince him of how bad of a decision he made was.

It truly stinks

Swampboy posted:

playball2011 posted:

What athletic trainer? lol.  Some schools have them but many don't.  

Please send me a dialog with the names of some public schools (other than extremely tiny, extremely remote) that field interscholastic sports and don't have athletic trainers. Maybe they don't have the full certification the trainers in my area have, maybe they aren't full time school employees, but I'll be astonished if, in this day and age of risk aversion, there are "many" schools fielding sports teams without also having some arrangement for trainer support. 

My son goes to a 6A school in Georgia with over 2,000 students.  There is no athletic trainer.  My son is currently working with an Ortho and a private PT.  All the school wants to know is can he play?  I have a great relationship with the coach, so I am not saying they don't care about the player's health.  But there is no one associated with the school who even knows how to put on an ace wrap.

I think our baseball team alone this year has more than justified both mine and my assistant's positions. It's been that kind of year unfortunately ��

This is truly surprising. The trainers add so much value in so many ways--first aid, treatment, documentation, communication, return to play decisions--it's hard to imagine a sports program without them. If I was running a school, I'd rank hiring trainers as more important than filling a lot of administrative and support positions.

I learned something here. 

Swampboy, I'd obviously like to think the same thing. But in many places (I've been there!) the AT is considered an afterthought and simply an expense. Fortunately, I don't feel that way in my current position. We have two full-time Athletic Trainers on staff. 

No doubt.  Didn't realize how spoiled my kids have been to have access to an outstanding training staff in HS.

Sorry, I just keep remembering more things our trainers do--e.g., reviewing and filing the sports physicals for all athletes, preventing and monitoring wrestler skin diseases, operating the lightning detection gear, sanitation of drinking water bottles and barrels--and wonder how in the world any school gets by without these professionals.  And that's not counting the wrapping and icing and other traditional training room activity.

Swampboy posted:

Sorry, I just keep remembering more things our trainers do--e.g., reviewing and filing the sports physicals for all athletes, preventing and monitoring wrestler skin diseases, operating the lightning detection gear, sanitation of drinking water bottles and barrels--and wonder how in the world any school gets by without these professionals.  And that's not counting the wrapping and icing and other traditional training room activity.

Please stop posting in this thread.  You're making me more and more jealous with each post lol.  Most of those things you just listed ends up falling under my umbrella.  Physicals, making sure they don't expire, lightning detection and I'll even tape and ice a kid.  The other day I was keeping gate for our JV softball game and our soccer team was playing home as well.  Two girls from the other team asked where our trainer was because they needed ankles taped.  I grabbed a kid to take over gate that I trusted and then took them to our training room (we have a room but no actual trainer) and taped their ankles.  

Consider yourself - as well as the others - that you have a trainer.  Because if you don't then you have idiots like me being responsible.

So I guess you don't want to hear about how the trainers here do a fundraiser at the end of each school year right after the must-be-after date for the next year physicals where they get some doctors to volunteer time and then sign up a significant chunk of the next year's athletes to get their physicals all on the same few days on the right form and on school property, with the proceeds being used to buy training room supplies? And you don't want to hear how it saves hundreds of parents the hassle of scheduling and paying for last minute physicals, gets the bulk of the kids approved before summer tryouts, and raises a lot of money?  I won't say a word about it. 

You probably don't want  to hear about how our school's trainer shepherds athletes through their concussion protocols either.

Or how they train parents on heat-related illnesses or check lockers to make sure players are laundering their practice gear.

My lips are sealed.

Coach already knows... He's heard it from me once or twice lol 

Bulldog 19 posted:

Swampboy posted:

playball2011 posted:

What athletic trainer? lol.  Some schools have them but many don't.  

Please send me a dialog with the names of some public schools (other than extremely tiny, extremely remote) that field interscholastic sports and don't have athletic trainers. Maybe they don't have the full certification the trainers in my area have, maybe they aren't full time school employees, but I'll be astonished if, in this day and age of risk aversion, there are "many" schools fielding sports teams without also having some arrangement for trainer support. 

37% of high schools across the nation employ a full-time Certified Athletic Trainer. Approximately 70% of high schools have "some sort of arrangement." It's pitiful and disgusting. Every school should have at least one Athletic Trainer on staff, if they choose to have athletics.

http://natajournals.org/doi/pd...85/1062-6050-50.2.03

Ours is one of those with "some sort of arrangement."  But our arrangement is a really, really good one.

Our trainer is provided by a large local PT outfit.  While she is not a school employee, her primary responsibility at her job is taking care of our athletes.  She is at the school virtually every afternoon.  She will also travel to road games if there are no activities requiring her attention at the school.  And of course, she attends to visiting athletes if they do not have a trainer available.

One of the advantages to having this kind of arrangement is that the PT outfit provides a substitute if our trainer is sick or needs a day off for any other reason.  And if we are not satisfied with the performance of the assigned trainer, we can request a permanent replacement - which is much easier than firing an employee and having to go through the search process to hire a replacement.  We haven't had to do that recently, as our current trainer is fabulous.

Our trainer is assisted every year by two student interns from a nearby college.  I don't know the details of our arrangement, but I suspect that it being part of the assistants' educational curriculum means that the college may subsidize the program.  That may be something to look into as well, coach.

After reading this thread, I feel very fortunate that we have a dedicated trainer that spends a lot of hours at the school all year long to monitor our athletes and even perform physical therapy.

All the schools in our area offer a very small stipend. It is not enough to attract an actual AT. So, a local physical therapist, supplements the small stipend for all 5 high schools in our area and provides each with an AT that is on his payroll. This PT also offers no-cost therapy to injured athletes Monday-Friday from 7-8 am in his local office, if needed.  If our AT leaves for some reason, the PT supplies a new one. We've had the same great guy for the last 2 years. He genuinely cares about the kids and I am very thankful to have him. 

Swampboy posted:

Or how they train parents on heat-related illnesses or check lockers to make sure players are laundering their practice gear.

My lips are sealed.

Swampboy posted:

So I guess you don't want to hear about how the trainers here do a fundraiser at the end of each school year right after the must-be-after date for the next year physicals where they get some doctors to volunteer time and then sign up a significant chunk of the next year's athletes to get their physicals all on the same few days on the right form and on school property, with the proceeds being used to buy training room supplies? And you don't want to hear how it saves hundreds of parents the hassle of scheduling and paying for last minute physicals, gets the bulk of the kids approved before summer tryouts, and raises a lot of money?  I won't say a word about it. 

JCG posted:

You probably don't want  to hear about how our school's trainer shepherds athletes through their concussion protocols either.

 While I'm laughing with you guys I have my finger on the block button HAHAHAHA

We actually do the physicals on campus as well but ours are free due Marine Special Operations Command (MARSOC) providing the doctors and corpsmen to conduct.  We set it up where it takes place over two days and first day is dedicated to HS athletes and second day is dedicated to MS athletes (their school is next to ours) but I'm the one who schedules it.  Unfortunately my contact at MARSOC said they aren't able to provide them this year due to change in people's duty stations.  Not sure what plan B is yet but hoping something comes along.

As for the concussion protocols our first responder does that since he's on campus but it's still not the same as have an ATC do it.

I'm the one who provides the concussion awareness, heat illness, hygiene and everything that needs to be covered in parent meetings.........you know the more I'm involved with this thread I'm ready to quit my job and be a greeter at Walmart.  I'm sure it pays about the same.