Why do so many parents ask for advice regarding the recruiting process and then go off and do what they want anyway ?
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TR,
It's the old saying... "That won't happen to me, I'm smarter than everyone else." Sometimes you've got to get burned to learn.
It's the old saying... "That won't happen to me, I'm smarter than everyone else." Sometimes you've got to get burned to learn.
I think this explains everything.
Because this is still America.
CPLZ
What bearing does that have on the question???
What bearing does that have on the question???
That's not quite a fair question.
I listen to financial advice from a lot of sources, and then do what I deem best.
At least some parents are going to the right source and asking. And look at the wide variety of responses they get from coaches, parents of pro and college players, and learned old timers. Rarely does everyone say the same thing. I think that's the strength of this site.
And I kinda of like "because this is still America."
I listen to financial advice from a lot of sources, and then do what I deem best.
At least some parents are going to the right source and asking. And look at the wide variety of responses they get from coaches, parents of pro and college players, and learned old timers. Rarely does everyone say the same thing. I think that's the strength of this site.
And I kinda of like "because this is still America."
This site really is great. I wish I knew of it sooner! Better late than never. Everyone on here has been very helpful and seem to want to help others. If the country all was like this we would be in great shape!
they are asking for advice. not taking orders.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
CPLZ
What bearing does that have on the question???
We are free to do as we choose. Asking for advice doesn't come with a stipulator that you must follow the advice given. Many times, there are differing opinions on relatively simple questions. Just look at the thread regarding filling out recruiting questionnaires.
I know you think you have a lot of answers, but what you really have is a lot of situations that have worked out favorably for you...depth of experience. That doesn't mean a different person will achieve the same results by following in your footsteps.
Makes perfect sense to me.
1. Parents SHOULD educate themselves (that's the asking for advice part).
2. Parents SHOULD also do what is in their and their son's best interest (that what appears to be doing as "what they want").
One of the most important ingredient of a successful recruiting experience is having options so our sons will have the ability to determine a good choice (fit). And since we all see things from different knotholes, no two recruiting rides (or method of selection) will be identical. Getting advice is ALWAYS good --- However following SOME advice can be BAD.
Fungo
1. Parents SHOULD educate themselves (that's the asking for advice part).
2. Parents SHOULD also do what is in their and their son's best interest (that what appears to be doing as "what they want").
One of the most important ingredient of a successful recruiting experience is having options so our sons will have the ability to determine a good choice (fit). And since we all see things from different knotholes, no two recruiting rides (or method of selection) will be identical. Getting advice is ALWAYS good --- However following SOME advice can be BAD.
Fungo
quote:Originally posted by Fungo:
Makes perfect sense to me.
1. Parents SHOULD educate themselves (that's the asking for advice part).
2. Parents SHOULD also do what is in their and their son's best interest (that what appears to be doing as "what they want").
One of the most important ingredient of a successful recruiting experience is having options so our sons will have the ability to determine a good choice (fit). And since we all see things from different knotholes, no two recruiting rides (or method of selection) will be identical. Getting advice is ALWAYS good --- However following SOME advice can be BAD.
Fungo
TR, that is a good observation in my book. A lot of times, they aren't really asking, just looking for validation of what they want to do.
As we've all seen many times in our forums, on some topics, two very well respected members will give opposite advice.
Likewise, if you are giving advice to someone here or offline, they might also be getting advice from another source which just happens to more closely match their situation.
Julie
Likewise, if you are giving advice to someone here or offline, they might also be getting advice from another source which just happens to more closely match their situation.
Julie
I never expect anyone to follow my advice.
Many times, when people follow your advice, they were thinking along the same lines anyways. Asking for advice is like a compare and contrast exercise. People often want to gauge their own logic and understanding. The advice is almost always general while the ultimate decision is almost always personal. Unless the advice happens to align with the personal needs of the recipient, then the person receiving the advice will not follow it.
For instance, I can advise an unemployed person that they ought to go out and be a senator or the President of the US. It might be great advice (from my point of view) but the practicality of it is zero. Sometimes on these boards, the advice will also be way over the ability/capability of the asker to follow. For example, you sometimes see advice like the best way to get recruited is to get on the Midland Redskins or East Cobb Braves, win a national championship in Farmington, get selected to the PG All-American team, etc. I am sure with those types of credentials a kid will get noticed but to offer that type of advice as a practical tip to someone asking from Montana seems a reach at best.
Finally, sometimes the asker of the advice already knows the answer. The question is rigged as an announcement of some amazing attribute of their kids or themselves or both. Questions like "Is a 75% offer from Stanford a good one?" or "Should we offer food or drink to the scouts when they visit our house" or "Is it ok to ask the scouts to move their radar guns out of our sight-plane when we are trying to watch our son pitch?"
Many times, when people follow your advice, they were thinking along the same lines anyways. Asking for advice is like a compare and contrast exercise. People often want to gauge their own logic and understanding. The advice is almost always general while the ultimate decision is almost always personal. Unless the advice happens to align with the personal needs of the recipient, then the person receiving the advice will not follow it.
For instance, I can advise an unemployed person that they ought to go out and be a senator or the President of the US. It might be great advice (from my point of view) but the practicality of it is zero. Sometimes on these boards, the advice will also be way over the ability/capability of the asker to follow. For example, you sometimes see advice like the best way to get recruited is to get on the Midland Redskins or East Cobb Braves, win a national championship in Farmington, get selected to the PG All-American team, etc. I am sure with those types of credentials a kid will get noticed but to offer that type of advice as a practical tip to someone asking from Montana seems a reach at best.
Finally, sometimes the asker of the advice already knows the answer. The question is rigged as an announcement of some amazing attribute of their kids or themselves or both. Questions like "Is a 75% offer from Stanford a good one?" or "Should we offer food or drink to the scouts when they visit our house" or "Is it ok to ask the scouts to move their radar guns out of our sight-plane when we are trying to watch our son pitch?"
ClevelandDad, great post. By the way, IS it appropriate to offer food or drink on the scouts visit to the house????? LOL
I happen to be from the Cleveland area also (Hudson) and have long been a person who enjoys reading the back and forth discussions that take place on this forum with the emphasis on reading . . . that having been said, I have a HS baseball playing son and really feel that gaining the insight and perspective that is made available on this site has been and is extremely valuable and is really (at the end of the day) what you choose for it to be. I have found the experiences of those who have gone before us, made mistakes or learned lessons and have subsequently shared them on here, to be well worth the time spent reading them and your note struck a chord with me this morning of which I felt more compelled to respond than read . . . thanks for your sage advice. By the way, my kid is a Walsh Jesuit Warrior . . . thanks again.
I happen to be from the Cleveland area also (Hudson) and have long been a person who enjoys reading the back and forth discussions that take place on this forum with the emphasis on reading . . . that having been said, I have a HS baseball playing son and really feel that gaining the insight and perspective that is made available on this site has been and is extremely valuable and is really (at the end of the day) what you choose for it to be. I have found the experiences of those who have gone before us, made mistakes or learned lessons and have subsequently shared them on here, to be well worth the time spent reading them and your note struck a chord with me this morning of which I felt more compelled to respond than read . . . thanks for your sage advice. By the way, my kid is a Walsh Jesuit Warrior . . . thanks again.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Why do so many parents ask for advice regarding the recruiting process and then go off and do what they want anyway ?
Rizzi,
Reasonable question and so true and more so in the last decade.
The 'loop' I frequently have referred to include:
- Observe
- Orient
- Decide
- Act
When parents ask for 'recruiting advise' they typically are seeking free information w/r to the process. In many cases, if not all, these parents are primarily in the Observe and Orient stages, and subsequently make their own Decision and subsequnt Actions.
Should parents pay for the information, more times than not, their Actions is after an understanding of the Alternative Decisions is reached, and are less surprised and satisfied with the outcome.
Bottom Line:
To Act without a Decision is Foolish
To Decide without Acting is a waste of time
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
I never expect anyone to follow my advice.
Many times, when people follow your advice, they were thinking along the same lines anyways. Asking for advice is like a compare and contrast exercise. People often want to gauge their own logic and understanding. The advice is almost always general while the ultimate decision is almost always personal. Unless the advice happens to align with the personal needs of the recipient, then the person receiving the advice will not follow it.
Good stuff CD I agree. I remember when I first came here, I hung onto every word of Fungo, because I felt that his son's situation was in alignment with what our son was going through, and I would imagine that most here do the same now. The difference was that his son was a catcher, mine a pitcher and that can make a difference in the advice or thoughts given. I often get pm's from people whose sons are in similar situations ours was in HS, or in college entering their draft year, and I would never expect anyone to follow the advice given to the tee, but take the info from our situation, digest it and figure out what is best for their son. Every year I get more and more questions here regarding where son went, I can only give the perspective that I got when son attended year ago. They have to make their own decisions based on what is best for their son and their particular situation.
Advice is advice, but in the end, follow your gut instinct and that of your son's, I find that to be the best indicator of making good decisions.
quote:By the way, my kid is a Walsh Jesuit Warrior . . . thanks again.
cannon - welcome to the hsbbweb!
Walsh Jesuit is no doubt one of the top baseball programs in the state. I watched their State Championship game against NDCL over the web last year. It was a classic high school battle and a shame someone had to lose it. Again, welcome!
[Clevelanddad]Finally, sometimes the asker of the advice already knows the answer. The question is rigged as an announcement of some amazing attribute of their kids or themselves or both. Questions like "Is a 75% offer from Stanford a good one?" or "Should we offer food or drink to the scouts when they visit our house" or "Is it ok to ask the scouts to move their radar guns out of our sight-plane when we are trying to watch our son pitch?"[/quote]
Clevelanddad, boy did you hit the nail on the head with this quote and amusing! Good response to TR's question.
Clevelanddad, boy did you hit the nail on the head with this quote and amusing! Good response to TR's question.
quote:Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:
[Clevelanddad]Finally, sometimes the asker of the advise already knows the answer. The question is rigged as an announcement of some amazing attribute of their kids or themselves or both. Questions like "Is a 75% offer from Stanford a good one?" or "Should we offer food or drink to the scouts when they visit our house" or "Is it ok to ask the scouts to move their radar guns out of our sight-plane when we are trying to watch our son pitch?"
Good point, why on earth would someone ask if 75% was a good offer (from any school) if the minimum is 25%. I also find it interesting that adults wouldn't know to offer ANYONE visiting their home if they would like some refreshments, or if it is ok to ask the scouts to move their radar guns so they can watch their son pitch (just get up and move would be my advice
). I missed that one.Sometimes advice asked can tell you a whole lot about the person posting, and real motives. For those that feel the need to ask those type of questions they already know the answer to, I am not impressed. JMO.
TPM - I took a little liberty with those questions to hopefully add some humor 
Some of those questions are not far off from what we've seen around here however. I believe I have seen the 75% question asked and whether or not to offer refreshment questions. I made up the radar gun question for humor
Some of those questions are not far off from what we've seen around here however. I believe I have seen the 75% question asked and whether or not to offer refreshment questions. I made up the radar gun question for humor
Advice when adhered to and followed may be beneficial, non-beneficial, damaging, non-damaging, partially beneficial and partially damaging, in reference to personal or social paradigms. In other words, not all advice is either "all good" or "all bad."
When my son was going through the recruiting process, I never asked any questions. I just read nearly every thread related to recruiting on this site, where I learned every conceivable question had already been answered in varying ways over the years. The advice -- most of it thoughtful and some of it contradictory -- was incredibly helpful.But I always found the contrasting opinions allowed me to see both sides of issues and then I could form my own opinion about what to use and what to discard.
Here here Catfish! Excellent point. Interesting how information can be accurate or inaccurate based on a person's perspective. It is up to each of us to take the information provided and make a good decision based on current and prospective needs. The more "educated" the better. IMHO the more info the better....that includes BOTH sides of the discussion.
Even the 75% question can be legit (not arguing). It may be like us and whether 75-80% at one school is better than 100% at another. My son is struggling with having to pay to go to his #1 or taking his #4 and going for free. So it may be that some parents just can't figure out how to ask the question correctly, or some can just be bragging. All questions are not equal but I love reading them because it helps me advise my son. So, would you take 80% at your #1 or 100% at your #4? Info, #1 is great team and great exposure. #2 is close. #3 is up and down. #4 is close to home, 100% ride, immaculate facilities, locals can come watch, but team is lacking. HELP!
I would tell my son to go where he feels is the best place for him both as a student and a baseball player. If that is why #1 is his #1 then thats good enough imo. Good luck
Thanks Coach. That is what I'm trying to get across to him. He is struggling between the winning teams that have a chance to get to CWS and the team that has the other stuff to offer, including the personal fan support.
How about playing time?
You can go to a CWS contender and sit for two years while at a current non-contender he may play immediately.A player does not develop sitting on the bench
You can go to a CWS contender and sit for two years while at a current non-contender he may play immediately.A player does not develop sitting on the bench
I agree but try to tell that to a 17 y.o. The other factor is that the local is willing to consider playing first and batting when he is not pitching. I am just praying that I can give him advice without pushing him to what I think versus what he wants. That is why I love this site is that someone has been where I'm at, no matter where I am. And guess what, when this is done I will have been there and can give someone else advice.
Coach May, how is your son doing with the redshirt at UNC. If you would rather PM me that is fine.
Coach May, how is your son doing with the redshirt at UNC. If you would rather PM me that is fine.
The advice here for us has been very useful. It made me realize how lucky we are to have found the right travel team at the right time. Since I joined the board, every piece of advice our coach gives us, I can say, yes, I heard that someplace and I know it's important.
As the HS season approaches, I have a question that I would ask right now if I were a newbie, regarding a situation that will probably be frustrating this spring. But I already know the answer. Relax. Enjoy the ride. Do NOT Talk To The Coach.
As the HS season approaches, I have a question that I would ask right now if I were a newbie, regarding a situation that will probably be frustrating this spring. But I already know the answer. Relax. Enjoy the ride. Do NOT Talk To The Coach.
Jeff my son did redshirt last season and played this past summer in the Great Lakes League. He really enjoyed the experience. His first college game experience came in the summer playing with wood. He had a blast and loved it. The RS year was very good for him. It gave him a chance to get a year of school under his belt at a very tough academic school. He is now a RS freshman and enjoying the fall season. My son loves the school his coaches and his team mates. He says he is very happy with his decision and would not change a thing. So that makes me happy.
He is going to the CPL this summer and says he is excited about the upcoming college season as well. He told me that he is such a better player now than he was when he first arrived and looks forward to working hard and continuing to get better. All he wants to do is win and do what it takes to help his team win. He is very happy and thats all that matters to me. Thanks for asking.
He is going to the CPL this summer and says he is excited about the upcoming college season as well. He told me that he is such a better player now than he was when he first arrived and looks forward to working hard and continuing to get better. All he wants to do is win and do what it takes to help his team win. He is very happy and thats all that matters to me. Thanks for asking.
quote:Originally posted by Coach_May:
Jeff my son did redshirt last season and played this past summer in the Great Lakes League. He really enjoyed the experience. His first college game experience came in the summer playing with wood. He had a blast and loved it. The RS year was very good for him. It gave him a chance to get a year of school under his belt at a very tough academic school. He is now a RS freshman and enjoying the fall season. My son loves the school his coaches and his team mates. He says he is very happy with his decision and would not change a thing. So that makes me happy.
He is going to the CPL this summer and says he is excited about the upcoming college season as well. He told me that he is such a better player now than he was when he first arrived and looks forward to working hard and continuing to get better. All he wants to do is win and do what it takes to help his team win. He is very happy and thats all that matters to me. Thanks for asking.
That is excellent news Coach May. I'm really looking forward to watching Jeff and company put their signature on another successful season!
CD - I almost spit out my diet coke when I read your post about asking if the scout could move the radar gun... priceless!
Thanks JD nice to hear from you I hope your boys are doing well. Everytime I think of you I get jealous knowing you still have a younger stud in the wings and you are going through this great time once again.
I got a chance to watch some of the fall world series and lets just say they are going to be very very good this season. And the type of young men in that program are a joy to be around. I am very happy for Q and hope to see him on TV one day. But I often think about how awesome it would have been to have him around for a couple of years in Chapel Hill. Take Care
I got a chance to watch some of the fall world series and lets just say they are going to be very very good this season. And the type of young men in that program are a joy to be around. I am very happy for Q and hope to see him on TV one day. But I often think about how awesome it would have been to have him around for a couple of years in Chapel Hill. Take Care
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
For instance, I can advise an unemployed person that they ought to go out and be a senator or the President of the US. It might be great advice (from my point of view) but the practicality of it is zero. Sometimes on these boards, the advice will also be way over the ability/capability of the asker to follow. For example, you sometimes see advice like the best way to get recruited is to get on the Midland Redskins or East Cobb Braves, win a national championship in Farmington, get selected to the PG All-American team, etc. I am sure with those types of credentials a kid will get noticed but to offer that type of advice as a practical tip to someone asking from Montana seems a reach at best.
Finally, sometimes the asker of the advice already knows the answer. The question is rigged as an announcement of some amazing attribute of their kids or themselves or both. Questions like "Is a 75% offer from Stanford a good one?" or "Should we offer food or drink to the scouts when they visit our house" or "Is it ok to ask the scouts to move their radar guns out of our sight-plane when we are trying to watch our son pitch?"
Priceless.
.
Simple,we parents are told so many things.We certainly want the best for our children and ask a lot to figure the way best appropriate for our situation.Our situation is that of our sons and the adventure in this arena can be confusing.You are absolutely correct no matter how much you tell us the fire is hot we still have to touch,but it is not done because of stupidity,but of doubt and concern.Please don't stop the advice ,because the very advice you are shaking your head over has allowed me the avid reader of this site to navigate the many trials of my baseball son.He will hopefully be signing soon with the D-1 program he has admired for so many youthful years.You well know this site is very valuable to the "my son" types,those that have to go out and be noticed vs the "Blue Chips".This site has also put me in a position to offer qualified advice to other parents and give them this same site.The advice from certain posters has equally allowed us to know how the direction our baseball programs need to go to offer these kids the same realization of that of my son.Please keep giving and we will keep doubting,thanks-"The Parents"
Many people, when they ask for advice, are really only seeking your affirmation of the decisions they've already made. Which is why people so often become visibly irritated if you should suggest a different course.
When people do this, they will never follow your advice. They'll just continue on, seeking others who will agree with them so they can feel better about what it is they plan to do anyway.
And later, they get mad when things don't work out so well. It's always someone else's fault.
As a lawyer, when I see this trait in a prospective client, I know it's time to politely decline the case.
When people do this, they will never follow your advice. They'll just continue on, seeking others who will agree with them so they can feel better about what it is they plan to do anyway.
And later, they get mad when things don't work out so well. It's always someone else's fault.
As a lawyer, when I see this trait in a prospective client, I know it's time to politely decline the case.
Backstop - that was an awfully nice post. Your boy is a very impressive young man. I can tell that his teammates would love playing with a kid like that. Humble and confident at the same time.
Backstop,
Great post, and great video. Great kid. Best of luck with his baseball, and academic career.Fan
Great post, and great video. Great kid. Best of luck with his baseball, and academic career.Fan
Thanks for the update Coach May. I love this site and the people on it. Don't always agree with everything but that is the great part. When it comes down to it, most of the people on here are just trying to help each other and learn at the same time. Everything passes down. Those of us in high school help those in travel ball beginning and those in college and pros help those below. Some names you read everything they write and others you just skip over because you know it is the same old same old or just don't have the patience.
If there were perfect answers, life wouldn't be so interesting. I will just keep reading and keep trying to help and not hurt my sons.
If there were perfect answers, life wouldn't be so interesting. I will just keep reading and keep trying to help and not hurt my sons.