WHY?

quote:

Are we coddling the youth of today

As I see it society in general is coddled nowadays why should the kids be any different.

NYDAD


Do consider yourself coddled?

It depends how young the kid is...Obviously, when he should be seeing pretty much from 6-7 years old that he is that much worse than everyone. He should not be told then. When they begin 7-8th grade, maybe, if they are being difficult about not making a cut...

TR...the answer about coddling is an unequivocable YES. I am a college professor and the students have a sense of ENTITLEMENT these days...and struggle when it does not happen. It's not just in athletics...it is a fault of the entire educational system.

Just the educational system JT?

Kids have their own DVD player, tv, ipod, laptop, desktop, car, fridge, microwave....

You don't think that changes things? How's that the fault of the K-12 system that kids come to you with a feeling of entitlement?

TR
I agree totally kids are coddled way too much.

I will add:I have said in other posts we have a certain generation who believe things should be given to them instead of earned. Many of these same people over coddle, and demand equality on and off the field even though one is way more advanced than the other in what ever the activity may be.
My opinion 7th and 8th grade is too late. By then they already have established their habits that were created by their influences. They probably wont fully uderstand why they were cut and will repeat as they were taught "Its not fair", well unfortunatly life isn't fair. IMO there are ways to teach a 6-7 year old rewards for work, whether it's on the field or off. To continue to tell a kid "it's ok honey" when they continue to do it wrong (on the field or in the classroom) only creates problems for them as adults. If a kid isn't trained to earn it when they are young most likely they wont when they're old. JMO


Good Luck

To get back to the orginal question: are we coddling kids??
I want my little guys I work with to enjoy the game, have fun being with each other and for the families to have a positive experience together.
As they reach high school, playing time becomes the number one issue and I usually just tell kids that their level of play is not high enough to succeed (if that's the case) and they need to play on a recreational team so they can still enjoy all the good stuff that comes with games and teams etc.
I try to be friendly about it; but there are only so many spots on the field.
I don't holler (very often) and i try to never threaten... if that means I coddle them; fine. I just think of it as working with people at differing developmental stages.
Peace to all.

TR, point being kids are product of today's "soft" society...both kids and adults have a sense of entitlement these days.

sometimes I tend to oversimplify


many parents never used the word no
soo... many children do not understand the word no

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
I read many posts on many boards and there is a continual theme wherein parents and coaches are afraid of hurting kids feelings.

Why is this? It is not a bad thing for kids to be told the truth regarding their athletic talent.
Truth for the sake of letting a player know where he stands in the grand scheme of things is one one thing, and necessary. To rip on a kid because he suucks and he already knows it is another. Let's say a kid can't hit. Is it so wrong to say "you need a lot of work on your hitting" rather than to say "you couldn't hit your way out of a paper bag". TR, I am pretty sure that is not your approach but in todays world of competitive tryouts and select teams there may be a tendency for "ugly" honesty to show it's face in some situations. With conception of messageboards these stories get out, are expanded through he-says/she-says threads, and artistic liberties are taken to "color" a conversation.


Are we coddling the youth of today to the point that they may not be able to cope with the real world when they become young adults?
I think some parents coddle their kids because they feel the "big bad world" is out to get their offspring. The kids brought up in the athletic world I feel would just soon "eat you up and spit you out" and can take that constuctive critisism. The ones that I worry about are those kids who can take the cruel personal ripps on them because they will have a tendency to do so when they are older. Bottom line, there is no reason to criticize beyond the line of respect. I don't care if it's athletics, or real life, sometimes the opinion is better left to yourself unless it serves a productive purpose.

I do remember when I was a kid that if an adult badmouthed me beyond that point of respect my ol' man may have had a piece of him if he deemed it was necessary. Today I think the tendency is to "tattle" on the "mean guy" to other parents or school admin. Maybe it's not only that the kids are softer but their parents are

Yes, the kids are coddled all the way. I work in the 3-5 gr. school and the parents complain about everything all the time. Complain about paper skeletons on the Day of the Dead celebrations (might upset their kids), complain that gym class is too competitive (mat ball, floor hockey etc. etc.) complain that access to internet search sites are not monitored closely enough (we have every blocker under the sun, can't get anywhere!) complain about too much homework, or too little homework or that it's too hard, or not hard enough et.c etc. The kids seem to me to be totally incapable of making even the smallest decision or being able to sort out their day to day little problems on their own. Their parents do everything for them.

A subject near and dear to my heart. There is a difference between honesty and opinion. Certain coaches thought my kid was not good enough, rather than giving up he played summer ball for a different set of coaches who's opinions were diametrically opposed. You don't want hurt feelings but more importantly you don't want to douse that competitive fire. There was a time when I and his mom were the only one's who believed in my kid, told him the other coaches opinions were wrong and don't give up, . Had I not he may have quit. Instead now he is his teams #1 and may have a chance to throw in college. The beauty is for him, proving those coaches wrong made him work harder.

It is called tact. Back in my playing days I got ripped many times. It did not bother me. Because it was the climate of the time. So it is relative. when I started coaching I had no problem dressing a player down if he deserved it and there was no problem. But as the years went on and the make everbody feel good about themselves everybody gets a trophy thinking came in you could not be as before because SOME KIDS AND SOME PARENTS were conditioned in this thinking. And they wanted warm and fuzzy and if they did not get it look out. So as a coach you had to adjust

look at a high school parking lot? we trust our kids to drive a $30,000 car to school,they should be able to take a frank conversation about ability.
but there are as many way's to critisize as there are players. there is a fit somewhere. we are a feel good society today,i'm not sure when it happened but it has.
my wife asked my son who was the biggest a-hole he ever had for a coach, he said dad,but i wouldn't be as good as i am if he wasn't. that was a step up ,i was the biggest idiot .

TR,
I'd have to say no. It is society that is protecting itself. It's the same instinct that makes a person pay $5 for an extended warranty on a $30 item, everyone just wants to feel good and protected from injury.

The worst thing you can do to a person these days (in their eyes) is upset them. Don't worry about what the message is, how was it delivered?

It's not kids that are coddled, its the adults, and the kids just exhibit learned behavior.

JMHO

WE, parents of college and below are not called helicopers for nothing! WE "hover" to much, so YES to TR.

I can't wait till a certain parent gives me the ok to tell his ENTITLEMENT story, it may be a few months as he doesn't want it to sound contrived, just their family decision.

We will all learn some lessons, but most of us just want what we believe is best for our kids.

I know what you mean about the cars in the parking lots at school, both of mine had to drive "the beast", MY old 89 dodge caravan, but got used, but nice, cars when they got their college scholarships.

quote:

Originally posted by 02^04Mom:
I know what you mean about the cars in the parking lots at school......

I can't argue about the cars in the lot but at the same time I can remember in the 70's our school lot had it's share of "nice" cars and I can remember my Mom in her VW asking who would let their kid drive to school in a nice car like that. There has always been those HS "eye openers" but now we look at them from a parents point of view versus a fellow classmate "back then". IMHO times have changed accross the board

Not too long ago we had a thread started by a "Fairness and Respect" that epitomizes this subject. He eventually dropped out and never came back after he was slapped around by some of the responses.

Essentially, he was concerned that his son, a frosh, wasn't being considered for moving up. The moniker (Fairness and Respect) says it all.. parents today want their kids to be EQUAL to the coach, have equal playing time, etc.. and they want it now! That's not how it is in baseball or life. Coaches are supposed to be the leaders, not your buddy. Tell them no!

I suspect the old days of tough-love coaches is going by the wayside because of the politically correct mentality out there.. that concerns me because where does discipline come from?

"Speak softly and carry a big stick" --Teddy Roosevelt

"Speak loudly and carry a small stick" -- Hugo Chavez

lol

a good coach knows how to push buttons with players, most kids you can dog, but there are a few kids that should be "coddled", they just dont take criticism well.

The better coaches know what kids need a pat on the back and which one's need a kick in the arse to bring out their best.

Nearly all athletes eventually face the chilling fact that, "Your talent (skills) won't allow you to advance."

Parental coddling, is often nothing more that people doing everything they can to delay that inevitable moment.

HaverDad (now in Brussels)

One of my fellow Asst coaches on a 14U travel team last year didn't want to yell at the kids to correct their mistakes while on the field. He thinks it will embarass them. I think it is more embarassing to make the same mistake on the field more than once.

Tom, it is true yelling at a kid while he is on the field might embarass him, but if that kid is ebarassed he will give 100% so he wont get embarassed again!

Any adult who deliberately embarrasses a child on a baseball field has no business coaching. Failure is a big part of the game. but I have yet to see someone do it intentionally. Having said that, I'm not sure how embarrassing a little yelling is anyway, my oldest sons summer league coach yells from "play ball" to the last pitch, the kids love him, the parents love him and his teams consistently win state titles.

I was amused by the parents who used to approach me about "yelling" at their kids on the field. Their definition of yelling was just that: anything said in a raised voice even if it was repositioning the LFer from the first base dugout. I 'splained that there was limited time in between pitches for some of these instructions, and (as it was in a priviledged Orlando suburb), I didn't have time to call them on their cell.

PT questions sometimes had to be handled by going through the lineup with them to get their agreement on who should play and adding up the innings, then showing them how many "player innings" were available. Then asking who, of those they had already agreed had earned the right to play, should be taken off the field to give their son more PT.

That's a longwinded way of explaining that (in baseball) a lot of these entitlement issues come down to a lack of understanding of the game.

What's scary is that I've been noticing comments by parents around college games lately. They still don't understand the game. So much for osmosis.

I'm a big "fan" of positive reinforcement and the "pat on the back" but sometimes the truth need be told. Unfortunately in this politically correct world the slighest criticism is not taken well, especially by the parent with deluded dreams of the child's athletic/academic prowess. Interestingly the kids ususally take it pretty well.

We now have in many school systems requirements that teachers grade papers in pastel colors because red is too "harsh" on the psyche. In my community's Little League program no one in t-ball or coach pitch is ever called out for fear this will "traumatize" the child.

Don't know how true it is, but the following has been attributed to a speech given by Bill Gates to a graduating high school class-some interesting comments relating to the subject of this thread. Apparently Gates was addressing talks how feel-good, politically correct teachings have created a generation of kids with no concept of reality and how this will set them up for failure in the real world.

Rule 1: Life is not fair - get used to it!

Rule 2: The world won't care about your self-esteem. The world will expect you to accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself.

Rule 3: You will NOT make $60,000 a year right out of high school and you won't be a vice-president with a car phone – not until you earn both.

Rule 4: If you think your teacher is tough, wait till you get a boss.

Rule 5: Flipping burgers is not beneath your dignity. Your
Grandparents had a different word for burger flipping: they called it opportunity.

Rule 6: If you mess up, it's not your parents' fault, so don't whine about your mistakes, learn from them.

Rule 7: Before you were born, your parents weren't as boring as they are now. They got that way from paying your bills, cleaning your clothes and listening to you talk about how cool you thought you were. So before you save the rain forest from the parasites of your parent's generation, try delousing the closet in your own room.

Rule 8: Your school may have done away with winners and losers, but life HAS NOT. In some schools, they have abolished failing grades and they'll give you as MANY TIMES as you want to get the right answer.
This doesn't bear the slightest resemblance to ANYTHING in real life.

Rule 9: Life is not divided into semesters. You don't get summers off and very few employers are interested in helping you FIND YOURSELF. Do that on your own time.

Rule 10: Television is NOT real life. In real life people actually
have to leave the coffee shop and go to jobs.

A GOOD boss doesn't call you to the carpet in front of co-workers

A GOOD parent doesn't repremand you in front of others

A GOOD friend doesn't embarrass you in front of friends

A GOOD coach doesn't rip you a new a$$ in front of teammates and/or the competition.

There is a place and time to be told the truth and have an honest assessments made. Those who think that time is in front of others is doing nothing more than strutting their power. That is not leadership.

Mistakes should not be ignored, but the place they are brought to light should be chosen with the intent of making it a constuctive form of communication, good or bad.

Three months ago, I would have agreed with rz1's statements completely, but I would like to respectfully offer a different perspective. In January, my son (a high school junior) began playing at a new school which has a highly-successful program. The coach's style is drastically different from any my son has had in the past. Son's former coaches never reprimanded, embarassed, or ripped him in front of others, and we were less than thrilled when we found out that his new coach was a "yeller." I'll have to admit that we were very concerned about his confidence falling off and his "self-esteem" suffering. How wrong we were....

The coach's tough and demanding style has actually raised our son's game several bars and has made son much more mentally tough. Son says he has learned to not take his coach's criticism personally but to simply work harder on the skills that his coach is assessing. Son commented to us, "Coach just wants to make us better so we can win." Son says he feels much more prepared now to handle the tough realities of college ball. (And from what we hear, there are LOTS of tough realities in college!)

In fairness, the coach is also quick to praise good plays and is a real softy off the field -- although he rarely shows his soft side around his players

We have developed a very healthy respect for our son's coach and are thankful for his criticisms (which seem to be always accurate) and his high expectations and demands (ranging from being on time to not using foul language to working after hours to further develop skills). He is developing our son's character and game in ways we never thought possible.

quote:

Parent quote
Son says he has learned to not take his coach's criticism personally but to simply work harder on the skills that his coach is assessing

I agree.

I think there is a difference between "teaching criticism" and "personal criticism". If Joey isn't doing something fundamentally correct you fix it, and teach others on the spot. If Joey's a worthless schmuck, that gets taken care of behind closed doors.

We say to our children that the minute the coach doesn't vocalize instructions to you (varying degrees of volume) that is the time that he/she no longer cares about you. Listen and take it to heart.

But. As rz1 points out, there is a difference between "teaching" criticism and "personal" criticism. Embarrassing anyone in front of others is uncalled for. Especially children who are still learning the game. And I believe that no one knows everything about the game, not only the rules but how to play it............

And I also agree with parent when he/she says that the coach is quick to praise good plays and is a real softy off the field....Of course when anyone praises everything that anyone does, it rarely means anything. But praise for good plays must be a part of the equation....

quote:

A GOOD coach doesn't rip you a new a$$ in front of teammates and/or the competition.

There is a place and time to be told the truth and have an honest assessments made. Those who think that time is in front of others is doing nothing more than strutting their power. That is not leadership.

Not in the classroom (report card, parent-teacher conference), not in the office (annual review), and not on the field or court.

TRHit-
YES....and YES. Unfortunately, we now coach in an age where:
1. parents can't accept the truth
2. paid instructors are ALWAYS better than free high school coaches
3. political correctness means win...but only if everyone gets to play!

It is quite sad. Players are DEFINITELY softer than they use to be...and most of it comes from the parents (sorry to lay blame where it belongs...I'm a parent too!).

Parents too often are trying to "live their dreams" through their kids...and this assures that the kids will always have their parents as "buffer zones" between their perceived ability and the reality that everyone else sees. It is a sad reality...but one that every coach on this forum sees every single day.

Nowadays, kids are all of the sudden "hurt" when their performance fails, their parents question the coach when their kid doesn't play ahead of a more talented kid, boosters get involved not to help the program but in the hopes of getting their kid some brownie points, etc.

I hope I don't sound cynical or negative...I'm just a realist who faces these frustrations along with the rest of you. Coaching is the best profession in the world...but it isn't getting easier!!!

Well said !!!!

Coach Knight:
I agree with all of your points, but seems like we are painting with a broad brush here. I know you and all the coaches see more than I do, but not every kid, and parent subscribe to this. Although at times it is hard to give inforamtion that potentially could effect the player or employee. Most people want to know when they are doing well, and also when they are doing bad. On the latter it is always good to give people the proper direction on how to improve, with specific goals and milestones to hit with timeframes. This helps with improving performance whether you are a ball player or an employee. JMHO
Nice post

quote:

I hope I don't sound cynical or negative...I'm just a realist who faces these frustrations along with the rest of you. Coaching is the best profession in the world...but it isn't getting easier!!!

It is a lot easier if the parents and players are dealt with at the beginning and told upfront. You will still have problems but it is a lot easier. Often the player will take care of the problem parent if he understands the consequences. They will become an embarassment to the player.
The world has definitely changed but it can be wonderful depending on your approach and attitude. Every generation has its issues and you have to adjust.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Knight:

1. parents can't accept the truth
2. paid instructors are ALWAYS better than free high school coaches

Surely you jest.

quote:

Nowadays, kids are all of the sudden "hurt" when their performance fails

Unless they really ARE hurt. That happens. Sadly, way too often. Ask the orthopedic surgeons.

quote:

Coach Knight quote:
It is quite sad. Players are DEFINITELY softer than they use to be...and most of it comes from the parents.

So true and that was a good post.

As far as I'm concerned a good coach gets in your face and lets you know what you did wrong and how to fix it and as coaches we feel that to be fair you treat every player the same. This is where I feel the problem lies.

For 25 years I've been told by a very pc wife to watch what I say because as much as I don't want it to be construde as "rude", others may not think "my" way. The times have caught up to me and I'm going to go on record as much as it hurts to say "she was right". I have said things to players that I had no problem with because I thought I was doing it for the good of the kid. At this point many will say "at least you're making the kid mentally tougher". This is where my wife sticks her nose into my business and says it's your job to coach baseball, it's his parents job to make him mentally tougher on their terms. I think my wife is the dali-lama of this pc cult .

Just as any player has to adjust to changes in the game, any coach has to adjust to changes in the player. In the end, every year, we do find those players who have that same passion for the game as we do and they get the "truth" on our terms. However, in todays world the parent has become an intangible in many player/coach relationships that you cannot stop but can only hope to contain. This is where todays coach has to work on levels of honesty. He can be a hard a$$ S0B, but at the same time has to pick and choose his audience. HS in many ways has become wierd and as a result the parent has stepped in with the "I-glasses" super-glued to their nose.

We coach for our passion for the game, and unfortunatly in todays game if we cannot come to grips that our passion may not be the same as our players it may be time to re-assess that portion of our lives. It is society as a whole who may be to blame and when all is said it is their loss.