Spizz,
Anyone who would discount Sam, just hasn't followed him over the years. Try to have as much fun as possible over the next few years.
Best of luck
Heck if kids with good college careers don't get drafted or high school kids from places like California don't get drafted what chance does a kid from NH have? Out of 1525 kids drafted I think ONE was from NH and he was out of a college, not one high school kid drafted that I could tell.
How does a high school kid from NH even get a scout to know who he is? Heck how does a kid from NH know if a scout does know who he is..so you can use him as a reference to possibly go to these showcases or tryouts which usually ask for a scouts recommendation?
I know this is a tad off topic..but it makes a dad wonder.
How does a high school kid from NH even get a scout to know who he is? Heck how does a kid from NH know if a scout does know who he is..so you can use him as a reference to possibly go to these showcases or tryouts which usually ask for a scouts recommendation?
I know this is a tad off topic..but it makes a dad wonder.
First there are kids in New Hampshire who might have been drafted if not for their college commitments. There's are a couple of (or potentially) ACC bound kids with parents on this board. They've been noticed. The kid has to put up huge numbers or throw extremely hard to be noticed. There's also the PG event on the Cape and TPX showcases in New England.quote:How does a high school kid from NH even get a scout to know who he is?
As a dad I don't wonder even though my son is playing in a more visible area. I concern myself with academics first, second and third, then baseball. I've told my son to use baseball to get the best possible college education. Anything more is gravy.
Jeff Locke, out of Kennett High School, was drafted a few years ago by the Braves, I believe he was 51st pick, second round. He played summer ball tournaments outside New Hampshire and got the exposure.
Mark Rogers is from Orrs Island, Maine - population 200. He took his 95 mph fastball to a showcase in North Carolina then picked his college. He never got to college. He was the fifth pick in the draft that year.
In most years, we don't have any kids drafted here in the Cleveland area out of high school. This year was an unusual year were we had five kids drafted from two high schools. Stetson Allie and Alex Lavisky were drafted from St. Edward high school and we had 3 kids drafted from Walsh Jesuit high school including one of our members here cannon315's son John Fasola who is signed to Kansas State. The typical year in these parts is to have no high school players drafted which is probably what it is like in New Hampshire. Ryan Westmoreland was a high draft pick out of Rhode Island last year as but one example of a NE kid who signed.
Where these kids are signed to go to college does not dictate whether or not they are drafted. Stetson Allie was signed to go to North Carolina and Lavisky was signed for Georgia Tech. jerseydad's son was also signed to go to UNC but is now gainfully employed in the pros without ever attending there. If the prospect is thought of highly enough, they will be drafted regardless of their college committment.
Where these kids are signed to go to college does not dictate whether or not they are drafted. Stetson Allie was signed to go to North Carolina and Lavisky was signed for Georgia Tech. jerseydad's son was also signed to go to UNC but is now gainfully employed in the pros without ever attending there. If the prospect is thought of highly enough, they will be drafted regardless of their college committment.
It's interesting the PG profile comments Rogers may be the best hitter in Maine too, given Ryan Flaherty (Deering, Vanderbilt, Cubs) and Andrew Giobbi (Deering, Vanderbilt) were playing high school ball in Maine at the same time.quote:
The state championship between Deering and Mt Ararat was moved to Hadlock Field, home of the AA Portland Sea Dogs. It sold out (7,500). Deering hammered Rogers. Most of the Deering team made up the Nova team that won the Legion World Series.
"CLASS A BASEBALL Deering reaches summit ; The Rams have no problem with Mt. Ararat's heralded pitcher and breeze to a 9-1 win."
Sorry, can't help myself when I hear these names.
Andrew Giobbi
Ryan Flaherty
Did someone mention...
Ryan Westmoreland
Stetson Allie
Alex Lavisky
Johnny Fasola
Andrew Giobbi
Ryan Flaherty
Did someone mention...
Ryan Westmoreland
Stetson Allie
Alex Lavisky
Johnny Fasola
There are kids in the stronger leagues in CA who don't stand out or don't get much if any playing time who would stand out in NH. It doesn't mean they'd get drafted in either case but a kid who doesn't do something other than HS ball in CA can be pretty good and still fly under the radar. I think Gerrit Cole threw something on the order of 20 innings as a junior in HS.
Some of the showcases ask for a scouts recommendation but don't require them.
Some of the showcases ask for a scouts recommendation but don't require them.
CADad,
You are exactly right.
That issue received a ton of publicity when Evan Longoria burst on the scene in Tampa.
He was overlooked in HS, he didn't have a DI offer coming out of HS, went to JC, to LBSU and the rest is history.
You are exactly right.
That issue received a ton of publicity when Evan Longoria burst on the scene in Tampa.
He was overlooked in HS, he didn't have a DI offer coming out of HS, went to JC, to LBSU and the rest is history.
Sam Fuld 5'9 175lbs from NH played center field for the Cubs last year (now in AAA) Scouts found him just fine in NH even though his HS team played only 18 games and he played Legion ball instead of travel, at least as he tells it. Went to Stanford before signing.
quote:8 or 10 years can be a real handicap when it comes to starting a career.
So true. I graduated from UC-Santa Barbara with a Film Studies degree and a talent for writing in the feature film format. I spent the next ten years of my life doing one cruddy job after another while pursuing the Holy Grail of a life-sustaining script sale; probably the equivalent, or worse, odds than that of being drafted.
Though I was accepted by an agency, had an original screenplay optioned, worked for pay on the screen adaptation of The Plague (then they went with an 'auteur' director and ultimately the movie sucked), and had a regionally awarded documentary script.....I ran out of time. Next thing I know, ten years are gone, our first child is on the way, and I'm still driving a tourist shuttle van around Santa Barbara.
Now I'm locked into a job that I would never have chosen. I ran out of time and scrambled to come up with a stable way to support the family. I'm grateful for what I have and that I can support the family now, but had I known back then what I would end up sacrificing (I really wanted to be either an architect or a zoo vet), I don't know.......
Same grasp story, different gold ring.
I have to agree, based on experience, that perhaps there is a big silver lining in not having been drafted, and immediately jumping on the next ship waiting in your life's harbor. I wish I had!
But it's all good!!
Again, major congrats to the webster sons who've been drafted and, to those who did not hear the call,...
May the road rise up to meet you,
May the wind be ever at your back
May the sun shine warm upon your face
And the rain fall softly on your fields
And until we meet again, May God hold
you in the hollow of his hand
Good post Krak.
Good to see a little Irish coming out of the toxic filled air in the Orient!!
Good to see a little Irish coming out of the toxic filled air in the Orient!!
It is possible to make the big leagues without being drafted. There are US born players who start as undrafted free agents and make the big leagues.
quote:Originally posted by CADad:
It is possible to make the big leagues without being drafted. There are US born players who start as undrafted free agents and make the big leagues.
You didn't like my Mike Bordick story above?
quote:Originally posted by CADad:
It is possible to make the big leagues without being drafted. There are US born players who start as undrafted free agents and make the big leagues.
I just thought of another good example. Kent Tekulve went to the D3 power here in Ohio - Marietta. He was undrafted after college but went on to a fine career as a closer with the Pirates and won a ring with the 1979 "We are family" team.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBpYgpF1bqQ
CD,
Oops.
Oops.
Originally posted by RJM:
Everyone wants a shot. I can understand a kid and parents being upset the kid doesn't get a shot. But if a kid is marginal enough to not get drafted or signed, maybe he's being done a favor to be forced to get on with his life.[/QUOTE]
I got to go along with the above statement.
Lots of good points made here.
A scout told me once that out of each draft only 1 or 2, maybe 3 drafted in that organization will see a ML game and stick. The rest are drafted to provide a team for those expected to make ML and provide entertainment and lots of money for those owning the milb teams and their affiliate. I do beleive that some players are passed up just because the organization feels that within 2-3 years they will want out to get on with their lives, and in reality they need players that will stick with it to provide what THEY need. College drafted players don't stick with it as long as HS players not knowing what else to do with their lives. Most know and understadnd by a certain time frame it's not going to happen. And management works real hard at promoting and nuturing latin players more than you might care to know about because they don't leave the game as quickly as our college guys do.
Age has a lot to do with it as well. Most organizations make each player go through their entire system. There is development needed for most players, that's about 4-5 years on average. The transition is not easy, only a few come ML ready or ready in a year or two and that depends on the organizations needs at draft time. Injuries also slow you down, and reality is that most players face some type of injury along the way. Again, it is my beleif that a HS player with less college options and some projectible talent makes for a more attractive pick than the college player who has succeded at that level and is older. Simply because most kids with 3-4 years of college will walk sooner.
Each organisation has AAA players that will never make a 40 man roster and know it. They are career organization players and some make lots of money in season. The organization depends on them to provide leadership, experience and be consistant while the prospects find their way. So don't sell those guys short, they accept their role amd know the score.
The goal of every HS player should be to do as well as you can in the classroom first, then perform well on the field to help secure a scholarship or otherwise get into a school that would not accept you if not involved in a sport. JUCO eliminated the draft and follow, JUCO should be a starting point for those that need some more time to develop physically and to adjust to the college classroom and secure a spot on a team in a 4 year program. Education should be the first priority. The draft is icing on the cake, and in most cases, you don't get past high A if you are just marginal. I have seen both sides, that is why I agree with RJM's statement.
Is it a lifetime experience one will always remember, yes it is, but so is college baseball and so is eventually securing a good job to provide for yourself and your family.
Everyone wants a chance but I agree with the statement that there is a lot more to this than we know or understand. There are literally hundreds and hudreds of players out there each year being considered and being a successful HS or college player is not always what those that make the draft decisions are looking for.
Unless you get some really solid money that can help sustain you for a bit, hug your sons, tell them you love them for who they are, not how they play the game and send them off to college and remind them to enjoy every moment. Don't worry about not continuing the game afterwards, there are lots of professions that keep you involved closely in the game, not getting s chance to play anymore is not the end of baseball, only if you choose it to be.
While up at Springfield we got to know the business and marketing manager of the Springfield Cardinals and some staff people. The radio announcer and the beat writer. Most former players who love the game not able to go past HS or college, these guys love their jobs and have more passion about the game than some players I know. This to me is awesome, these guys are invloved in the game they love, just in a different capacity, it doesn't have to end.
Everyone wants a shot. I can understand a kid and parents being upset the kid doesn't get a shot. But if a kid is marginal enough to not get drafted or signed, maybe he's being done a favor to be forced to get on with his life.[/QUOTE]
I got to go along with the above statement.
Lots of good points made here.
A scout told me once that out of each draft only 1 or 2, maybe 3 drafted in that organization will see a ML game and stick. The rest are drafted to provide a team for those expected to make ML and provide entertainment and lots of money for those owning the milb teams and their affiliate. I do beleive that some players are passed up just because the organization feels that within 2-3 years they will want out to get on with their lives, and in reality they need players that will stick with it to provide what THEY need. College drafted players don't stick with it as long as HS players not knowing what else to do with their lives. Most know and understadnd by a certain time frame it's not going to happen. And management works real hard at promoting and nuturing latin players more than you might care to know about because they don't leave the game as quickly as our college guys do.
Age has a lot to do with it as well. Most organizations make each player go through their entire system. There is development needed for most players, that's about 4-5 years on average. The transition is not easy, only a few come ML ready or ready in a year or two and that depends on the organizations needs at draft time. Injuries also slow you down, and reality is that most players face some type of injury along the way. Again, it is my beleif that a HS player with less college options and some projectible talent makes for a more attractive pick than the college player who has succeded at that level and is older. Simply because most kids with 3-4 years of college will walk sooner.
Each organisation has AAA players that will never make a 40 man roster and know it. They are career organization players and some make lots of money in season. The organization depends on them to provide leadership, experience and be consistant while the prospects find their way. So don't sell those guys short, they accept their role amd know the score.
The goal of every HS player should be to do as well as you can in the classroom first, then perform well on the field to help secure a scholarship or otherwise get into a school that would not accept you if not involved in a sport. JUCO eliminated the draft and follow, JUCO should be a starting point for those that need some more time to develop physically and to adjust to the college classroom and secure a spot on a team in a 4 year program. Education should be the first priority. The draft is icing on the cake, and in most cases, you don't get past high A if you are just marginal. I have seen both sides, that is why I agree with RJM's statement.
Is it a lifetime experience one will always remember, yes it is, but so is college baseball and so is eventually securing a good job to provide for yourself and your family.
Everyone wants a chance but I agree with the statement that there is a lot more to this than we know or understand. There are literally hundreds and hudreds of players out there each year being considered and being a successful HS or college player is not always what those that make the draft decisions are looking for.
Unless you get some really solid money that can help sustain you for a bit, hug your sons, tell them you love them for who they are, not how they play the game and send them off to college and remind them to enjoy every moment. Don't worry about not continuing the game afterwards, there are lots of professions that keep you involved closely in the game, not getting s chance to play anymore is not the end of baseball, only if you choose it to be.
While up at Springfield we got to know the business and marketing manager of the Springfield Cardinals and some staff people. The radio announcer and the beat writer. Most former players who love the game not able to go past HS or college, these guys love their jobs and have more passion about the game than some players I know. This to me is awesome, these guys are invloved in the game they love, just in a different capacity, it doesn't have to end.
Of course Albert Pujols is my favorite story.
An agent, no scout recommend Albert for the AC games.
Each year, I tried to out scout the scouts. It resulted in over 40 players achieving the ML that scouts did not recommend.
The La Roche boys were on our Goodwill teams to Australia with their father for 5 years.
Sam Fuld was recommended by a friend and he played on our American team against Japan in Cooperstown.
"I told him before the final game that we are in a battle with the Japan National team an on TV to 40 million". He crashed the brick wall [made the catch] and I walked him off the field and blood was dripping from a head injury and he nodded, yes this was a battle. I knew he would make it!
Mark Rogers was not recommended by a scout, but an agent and he was placed w/o a tryout.
This year in Australia, we will have 65 players [4 teams] coached by 7 pro scouts and one minor league manager and playing 12 games each against the best players for 2 weeks. Each players will be scouted, instructed and evaluated.
Five players were drafted in the past few days from the 2009 journey to the land "down under".
Sam Spangler was on our 2004 Japan Goodwill Series
and I wish him great success in pro baseball.
He is prepared.
Bob Williams
An agent, no scout recommend Albert for the AC games.
Each year, I tried to out scout the scouts. It resulted in over 40 players achieving the ML that scouts did not recommend.
The La Roche boys were on our Goodwill teams to Australia with their father for 5 years.
Sam Fuld was recommended by a friend and he played on our American team against Japan in Cooperstown.
"I told him before the final game that we are in a battle with the Japan National team an on TV to 40 million". He crashed the brick wall [made the catch] and I walked him off the field and blood was dripping from a head injury and he nodded, yes this was a battle. I knew he would make it!
Mark Rogers was not recommended by a scout, but an agent and he was placed w/o a tryout.
This year in Australia, we will have 65 players [4 teams] coached by 7 pro scouts and one minor league manager and playing 12 games each against the best players for 2 weeks. Each players will be scouted, instructed and evaluated.
Five players were drafted in the past few days from the 2009 journey to the land "down under".
Sam Spangler was on our 2004 Japan Goodwill Series
and I wish him great success in pro baseball.
He is prepared.
Bob Williams
While I agree the nepotism announcements should be discontinued, it's most important to respect the young men whose names were called over the past three days and recognize that a great many of them were very deserving. I know we all wish them success and a great baseball experience.
Krak,
Film studies! No wonder we didn't run into each other.
Film studies! No wonder we didn't run into each other.
Our HS son heard from 16 teams, had one personal workout and 4 teams came to his games, yes in NH!
He and we (wife and I)knew he was going to college but we hoped, for him, he would get called - he didn't, disappointing but understandable.
One thing I heard today (from a reliable source) is that ours son's name was on the draft board list, somewhere in 1200's - this person saw the list. Can anyone explain what this list is?
No sour grapes on our part, he's not good enough to play professionally now but hopefully he will work hard enough to put himself in position to be picked in 3 years.
He and we (wife and I)knew he was going to college but we hoped, for him, he would get called - he didn't, disappointing but understandable.
One thing I heard today (from a reliable source) is that ours son's name was on the draft board list, somewhere in 1200's - this person saw the list. Can anyone explain what this list is?
No sour grapes on our part, he's not good enough to play professionally now but hopefully he will work hard enough to put himself in position to be picked in 3 years.
quote:Originally posted by Baseballdad1228:
While I agree the nepotism announcements should be discontinued, it's most important to respect the young men whose names were called over the past three days and recognize that a great many of them were very deserving. I know we all wish them success and a great baseball experience.
Good post and I agree with you. Perhaps because son has played with many scouts sons, one now being Chuck Fick Jr, son of Cardinals scout Chuck Fick. These kids work pretty darn hard at it too. One of Clemson's catchers father a scout, his son was drafted by the team years ago. Probably one of the best defensive catchers son has ever had, he was never going to MLB. He spent most of his pro career going up and back at every milb level to catch bull pens when needed, not sure that anyone would want to do that for 4-5 years knowing they would never reach MLB.
nhmonty, 1200 means later rounds, 40ish rounds there are 50 rounds with approximately 30 picks per round.
It's disappointing I know, it's about signability but better to be honest and up front with your intentions than just indicating you might go so you can hear your name called. I am not in favor of that stuff, lots of kids do it though, they have no intentions of signing but feel they need to be honored by having their name called out.
Your son has made a good choice.
JMO.
quote:Originally posted by nhmonty:
One thing I heard today (from a reliable source) is that ours son's name was on the draft board list, somewhere in 1200's - this person saw the list. Can anyone explain what this list is?
Mr. Montville,
One approach is to ask your 'reliable source' the question.
My answer to you sir, is think about it as a tool to organize a parent clubs needs, ratings of players, and those players taken in the prior rounds.
In computer geek analogy, a xls (to small for a database app) with every spreadsheet attribute imaginable.
For the Director of Amateur Scouting, (and the GM), consider it as a list of names, and most of the time, pre-labeled names of signable amateur players, and some not signable. From a metric view point, many draft rooms have a list with over 2,500 names.
When MLB began televising the 1st round and compensation picks of the First Year Amateur Players Draft, there were, at times, brief take-aways to a camera revealing a room with men sitting around a table with these 2,500 names on a wall in the background.
This is the parent club's draft room, with a wall board containing a pre-labled list of amateur players.
After the draftee is signed, to many baseball men, it really does not matter what round the draftee is selected.
For those clubs that build their parent program from within their MiLB affiliates, all of the players are pretty much equal the first day of every season at the assigned minor league club.
And of course the player rises or falls in the organization with weekly reports from the affiliates on their performance and as observed at spring training, and by the roving baseball scouts observing the pro players in MiLB.
And it should be noted, the First Year Amateur Players Draft for MLB, is an exciting time. Yet realistically, far from an exact science. From a metric view point, about thirty players per team will have a new job when the short season begins.
And of course about thirty players will lose their job and enter the work force.
With a new breed of baseball analysts having access to huge amounts of information (and being well compensated) for organizing, assembling, and reorganization very large amounts data, there are many opportunities available for the IT analyst who loves baseball! Just ask the rotisserie guys!
All through your son's career, players have been falling by the wayside. First, there were those in little league who only played right field and who batted one time each game. They soon stopped playing. Then, there were the ones cut by the high school coach. Your son's continued on high school teams, obviously did well and soon were anxious about which university they would attend. Personally, we are in this stage now and it is painful. Although I have a daughter and not a son and the sport is softball not baseball, we hear of all of the interest. In our way, "show me the money" as well as a quality education and we'll talk some more. Your son's progressed through this stage and most attended the university of their choosing. Now the draft has come and gone. Your son's name was not called. I know it is tough but now, they will have to make hard decisions already made by their peers throughout their playing careers. I wish them well. I hope that baseball has given them much more than the opportunity to play professionally. I certainly hope that they have gained a quality education. There is still hope for those that want to play. Yes, the road is tougher. Still, ...
Good luck to all!
Good luck to all!
Bear,
The reliable source is my college baseball coach (early 70's), we were conducting other business, he is the AD at a university that is client of mine. I didn't feel it was appropriate to ask more questions.
Starting thinking about his comment later and wanted to ask the experienced board members about "the list" - not sure if there was some kind of master rating system.
Your answer is a bit too complicated for me, I am not the brighest light on the Christmas tree, my kid gets his brains and athletic ability from his mother.
TPM's response is easier for me to digest - 1200's 40th round up - I can understand that.
Looking forward to meeting you at Maryland, should have thought to call you, we did a one day Official "Speed" Visit a few weeks ago. Landed at 10 am on a Saturday and were back in the air by 8 am Sunday. Attended the Clemson game took in the Bob Smith Stadium dedication.
The reliable source is my college baseball coach (early 70's), we were conducting other business, he is the AD at a university that is client of mine. I didn't feel it was appropriate to ask more questions.
Starting thinking about his comment later and wanted to ask the experienced board members about "the list" - not sure if there was some kind of master rating system.
Your answer is a bit too complicated for me, I am not the brighest light on the Christmas tree, my kid gets his brains and athletic ability from his mother.
TPM's response is easier for me to digest - 1200's 40th round up - I can understand that.
Looking forward to meeting you at Maryland, should have thought to call you, we did a one day Official "Speed" Visit a few weeks ago. Landed at 10 am on a Saturday and were back in the air by 8 am Sunday. Attended the Clemson game took in the Bob Smith Stadium dedication.
TPM,
There are a lot of people on here who know the Ficks.
There are a lot of people on here who know the Ficks.
We were one of the families disappointed after day 3 of the draft. We certainly learned alot along the way and should he have the opportunity to be drafted again, we have a game plan. Our issue boiled down to signability. There are some things you just can't give up for $200,000.
Congrats to all the young men that were selected in the MLB draft this week. Good luck to all.
My son and I were sitting there watching the draft selection the other morning and he said very seriously, " I wonder why I didn't get drafted in that round. I'm getting tired of this waiting."
He looked over at me and then busted out laughing.
My son and I were sitting there watching the draft selection the other morning and he said very seriously, " I wonder why I didn't get drafted in that round. I'm getting tired of this waiting."
He looked over at me and then busted out laughing.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
PG - Perhaps you could talk about the exposure issue. I realize you do not want to promote your organization here but I have come to believe this issue is more important than I ever imagined it was. Let me give two examples. Bryce Harper's team did very well this year in the draft including Bryce's own brother. It was surprising they did not win the JUCO title with all those drafteesI am sure Bryce being on the team helped every other guy on the team. Tampa was another. No doubt one of the premier baseball opportunities/programs in America. I am guessing there is a snow ball effect here and many kids have benefitted by it. LET ME BE CLEAR - every kid on Southern Nevada JUCO and Tampa DESERVED to be drafted. My intuition tells me that the added exposure helped some of these kids.
Cleveland Dad, great topic here.
I wanted to comment regarding the University of Tampa observation that CD chose to cite in the above post. They did have 9 draftees (and since the draft another player signing a free agent deal.) It wasn’t about having one standout student-athlete that drew the scouts, it was about having multiple solid student-athletes causing broad interest. Historically, Tampa had 18 players drafted in the previous 4 years, so it wasn’t a new star athlete that all of a sudden caused the scouts to visit.
Programs that are solid year in and year out, always seem to draw scouts. Chipola JC comes to mind. It is in the Panhandle of Florida but draws players from all over. U Tampa’s geographical setting helps, but we are only one-two hours from USF, UCF, UF, Florida Southern, Rollins, Florida Tech, etc. as well as a huge number of JUCO’s and high schools. So logically U Tampa would not unnecessarily monopolize the big city scout’s time unless it was in his team’s best interest.
Regarding your question in your originating post: “Some schools had 8, 9, 10 or more draft choices and I am wondering why those same schools (not named Texas) aren't winning more on the field?” Tampa exhibited a strong winning season, including a 25 game win streak, winning the Sunshine State Conference title and winning one of the toughest D2 Regionals to get to the CWS. They had a quick 0-2 exit from the CWS, but if you only include schools in the “successful program club” that win their division championship, then that would be a small club indeed.
With the new 35 man roster, scholarship rules and transfer rules at D1’s, the talent is going to spread around the country more and more each year, which will be a good thing for all players. Also, for D2’s, they start 3 weeks before D1’s and that is a good time for the scouts to take a look at D2 talent. When they see players they like, they will continue to follow throughout the rest of the season.
I can tell you one thing, hitting is contagious as well as pitching. When surrounded by good ballplayers and coaches, many players seem to raise their game. It happened at U Tampa. That is also most likely what happened at the College of Southern Nevada. Why would teams that were drafting in slots 5-30 continue to send scouts to watch only Bryce when they had no chance of drafting him?
quote:Originally posted by Backstop-17:
Programs that are solid year in and year out, always seem to draw scouts.
Good point.
I think very rarely a scout will show up and discover a player, especially here in FL. I would bet that many of those Tampa players had been followed for a few years, where ever they were before they got to college. I do beleive that PG had stated that it's good to start showcasing early, so that scouts and those that watch you can follow your development year to year. I am sure the scouts had been watching these players all through college. And I am sure that Tampa's (and other schools as well) reputation for having a solid program didn't hurt those players either.
I could use my son as an example, as a HS player one of his coaches was an associate scout for the Cardinals, his brother the Scouting Director for many years, used to come watch our games in HS often. The yankee scout who was gaga for son and had made an offer in HS, was the roving hitting instructor for the Cardinals. I am sure the scout in South Carolina had word to keep his eye on him when he left Florida. Just as I am sure that those players on Harper's team didn't suddenly appear to have talent, they were already being observed.
JMO.
quote:Originally posted by Baseballdad1228:
While I agree the nepotism announcements should be discontinued....
My 50+ years of life I've accepted the fact that not only will nepotism never go away, it is a feature that makes our society work. I doubt there is a poster here that has not been on the sunny side of nepotism in their life and at the same time I'll bet more than once we've all been on the other end of the stick. We duck for cover when it has helped someone in our family, and betch about the unfairness when it goes the other way. Whether you want to call it injustice, or a "perk" and a businesses way of acknowledging a past employee of a job well done, it will always happen and dropping a "name" in the process is a way of ingraining the historical aspect of the business. From the outside looking in we fume, but in the end the pick was probably a coin flip with a bucket of players and the team went with family first.
If a club decides to go with the family connection, why announce it? Just select the player with his ID number and move on. It's difficult enough for young players who go undrafted to watch their baseball dreams die. Why add to the pain by announcing that a player being drafted is the son of an organization scout and shining light on the nepotism? It even works the opposite way, since that very son of the organization scout might be most deserving yet the perception is that the fix was in for the kid. Just take the player and move on.
quote:Originally posted by Baseballdad1228:
If a club decides to go with the family connection, why announce it? Just select the player with his ID number and move on. It's difficult enough for young players who go undrafted to watch their baseball dreams die. Why add to the pain by announcing that a player being drafted is the son of an organization scout and shining light on the nepotism? It even works the opposite way, since that very son of the organization scout might be most deserving yet the perception is that the fix was in for the kid. Just take the player and move on.
It's mentioned because it's part of a players personal profile and in a media driven world, that's the way it works. I have no idea on what goes on in the minds of organizations but when it comes down to "fill" picks, and all things equal, a good organization is going to maximize the pick and fluff it with trivial bs. What is lost in the draft process is that teams don't draft for a player X's mom/dad ego, they draft for the organization. Juniors family may be disappointed but there are probably more fans that think the pick has appeal, and those are the folks that buy shirts and hot dogs.
quote:It's difficult enough for young players who go undrafted to watch their baseball dreams die.
their dreams don't have to end at the draft.which is something they don't control, go out a find an indy team to tryout for. the road is much tougher but it still can get you there.
you don't say no to baseball...till it say's no to you.
quote:Originally posted by CADad:
TPM,
There are a lot of people on here who know the Ficks.
Yes I know, a point I was trying to make. Lots of people know Chuck Fick, his son drafted out of Fresno State (?) in 2007 in the 15th round, a reliever now converted to AA starter and doing quite well. Was this just nepotism or a true pick in 2007? Would you take that away from his dad hearing his sons name called and who he was on draft day? No because many of us know him you would not look at it that way.
Now if you want to get into it, the cards drafted Scott Boras' son as a late round pick a few years back. We all know his son wasn't going to sign, but I heard it was out of respect for the fact that Boras played for the Cardinals upteen years ago. So in reality, teams use those late round picks for many different things and I see no issue with announcing it. What's the problem with the Tigers drafting 3 of their coaches sons and Verlanders brother? If you all read what infielddad posted, most teams don't need more than 30-35 players (if less), and some even stop picking after a certain round. They know what they need and they also know who is going to sign and who is not, so they base that on who they pick and when they stop picking.
Wonder how bbscout would feel about this discussion. Wasn't one of his sons drafted late out of college by his team? Unless you are talking about using up a pick well worthwhile, what's the harm in having your employer take your son (or some other relative) in the draft in rounds that no one is going to sign for anyway?
Maybe I am missing something.
I have noticed one thing, most scouts sons and former players sons head to college before they might get chosen in their father's organization or drafted by another team, that to me tells a whole lot about how difficult they know it is, and how important education is above all else. You will notice that most of those scouts sons drafted went to college first.
FWIW, in discussion with bbscout about my own player who was a 6th-10th projection, he indicated 3 years of school first would be in his best interest.
As rz stated this nepotism we speak of is a part of a players legacy and bio as well, go to Koby Clemens player page and his bio lists who he is the son of, but you won't find that on scouts sons players page. Was he worthy of a 7th round pick, yes most probably that draft year he was. So what if his father's a millionaire, if he was a 7th round pick he deserved to be picked then and most likely took slot money, (something many of our sons may not have done). that alone made him more of a sure sign than anyone else with high bonuis demands. Regardless, he now has to work hard just like everyone else does to get to the next level. For those who think it's easy, think about having to live up to that, though he is not a pitcher. I would imagine in some repects that is not always that easy for a player with a famous baseball father.
I haven't posted in a while here other than this topic, and doing so only because I think that we tend to find fault with a process that is very difficult to understand (even PG at times). I hope that those who will be going through this process in the coming years won't put their eggs in one basket and rely on such things as scouts showing up or not showing up, filling out questionaires and giving medical reports, or glowing stats, HS or college success or awards to understand that in all likely hood the chances are very slim that what we wish for will most likely not happen.
The ML draft is what it is, if you understand there are elements that we won't always understand, it will be so much easier for you to understand and not be disappointed.
Hey, for those that think I don't understand, I do.
I know everyone wants a chance, maybe as son moves up levels, even being an early sign, had some injury issues and has to battle like a warrior for every pitch thrown (in a way unlike in HS or college) and try to reach the 40 man and then 25 man roster (afterall that IS what it is about), I understand very much how difficult it really is.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
Was this just nepotism or a true pick in 2007?
Your points are good. In the end once you are picked and in the system you have to perform. If you do you move up and if you don't you are gone. In Chuckie's case he is constantly answering the question about why he was drafted by the Cards, in spite of performing well.
Frankly the odds are very low of getting through, and as someone posted the other 1,300 picks are there so the top picks have someone to play with...except for the few that outperform their selection position. For the players it is a dream and for the organizations it is a business.
My son got a piece from Coach Stotz from Stanford and he was talking about having to work after being drafted and in professional baseball. He said that of all of the players drafted out of Stanford only one did not have to work after playing pro baseball. Something to think about.
Bof,
Very good post and I am glad that you understood what I was saying.
Every player has to show they belong, reality is the bigger the investment the longer you have to prove it. but in some cases, I have seen some early picks get released earlier than expected. Business is business.
Interesting thing I have learned, while we tend to blame organizations and scouts, coaches, especially college, are asked for input on their players. And I am sure there are many coaches who work real hard at getting certain players drafted because they need their money, perhaps a pick that should have gone to someone else.
Nepotism is all alround us, how many of us have we told players to contact a coach (travel ball, HS and college)? How many caoches here have contacted someone on the players behalf? Isn't that it as well?
Very good post and I am glad that you understood what I was saying.
Every player has to show they belong, reality is the bigger the investment the longer you have to prove it. but in some cases, I have seen some early picks get released earlier than expected. Business is business.
Interesting thing I have learned, while we tend to blame organizations and scouts, coaches, especially college, are asked for input on their players. And I am sure there are many coaches who work real hard at getting certain players drafted because they need their money, perhaps a pick that should have gone to someone else.
Nepotism is all alround us, how many of us have we told players to contact a coach (travel ball, HS and college)? How many caoches here have contacted someone on the players behalf? Isn't that it as well?
You see it everyday - some would say it's another example of the old adage...not what you know,it's who you know. Some call it networking nowadays. Being adept at promoting oneself, getting seen and playing in front of the right contacts is often the only way. Using those contacts is just another tool, getting an education at your school of choice, getting a job, or getting to the next level. Fortunately out of the 1500 players, it's not a considerable impediment. You still have to play the game, and there are other opportunities for those who have that burn. Just another example of baseball mirroring life and building character.