Wood 3 Metal 0

Still lots of variables.  Swing speed matters.  Weight matters.  Sweet spot matters.  Condition of the bat/performance matters.  Balance matters.  If you can swing more weight with the same speed, or same weight with more speed, more distance.  But that is always a big give-and-take.  All other things equal, an ounce does make a difference with bats.

That said, other things were not equal with your scenario, so it may have been other factors.  Non-wood specs still allow for about 5% better performance and a slightly larger sweet spot.  That is still obvious at most games as you will see OF's positioned much further in for most hitters than when metal/composite bats are used.  Every bat is balanced a bit differently.  Some days, you just have a better feel for the sweet spot with one bat over the other. That may have played into it.  Or you had a good wood bat and a metal/comp bat that isn't performing (which, again, could be for a variety of reasons).  Or the hitter is able to generate more bat speed with the balance distribution of the wood than the metal/comp.  Heck, it could be a confidence or a mental thing.  

So I will take a guess.... Your son is swinging the wood bat harder?

Others may chime in that know a lot more than I do, but it's my understanding that in 2009 composite/metal bats were redesigned to perform similarly to wood to reduce injuries. It's my guess that college baseball still uses composite because metal bats are a big business and most college coaches would never risk batting performance or averages. There's a lot of hype around composite/metal bats. Youth Players consequently believe its harder to hit with wood.

Personally, the difference I have witnessed between the two types of bats is not so much distance, as how well the ball is hit. Metal bats do yield more on base hits on poorly hit balls. That being said, I think players swing wood harder and with more purpose. My son does. I think subconsciously players think they have to swing harder for it to go as far as metal.

 We are always trying to reinvent the wheel. If I had a vote, boys would start hitting with wood at the youth level and never stop. 

Mominthestands posted:

So I will take a guess.... Your son is swinging the wood bat harder?

Others may chime in that know a lot more than I do, but it's my understanding that in 2009 composite/metal bats were redesigned to perform similarly to wood to reduce injuries. It's my guess that college baseball still uses composite because metal bats are a big business and most college coaches would never risk batting performance or averages. There's a lot of hype around composite/metal bats. Youth Players consequently believe its harder to hit with wood.

Personally, the difference I have witnessed between the two types of bats is not so much distance, as how well the ball is hit. Metal bats do yield more on base hits on poorly hit balls. That being said, I think players swing wood harder and with more purpose. My son does. I think subconsciously players think they have to swing harder for it to go as far as metal.

 We are always trying to reinvent the wheel. If I had a vote, boys would start hitting with wood at the youth level and never stop. 

I am not sure about swinging harder with just the wood bat, I have incentive for him, if he can hit the fence in the air, he gets $5 , hit it over he gets $100, mind you the fence is 10-12 feet high and 280' out, and he is 5'9" and on a very good day he can weigh up to 125.  When I am out of $20, I go find a bigger field, lol.

cabbagedad posted:

Still lots of variables.  Swing speed matters.  Weight matters.  Sweet spot matters.  Condition of the bat/performance matters.  Balance matters.  If you can swing more weight with the same speed, or same weight with more speed, more distance.  But that is always a big give-and-take.  All other things equal, an ounce does make a difference with bats.

That said, other things were not equal with your scenario, so it may have been other factors.  Non-wood specs still allow for about 5% better performance and a slightly larger sweet spot.  That is still obvious at most games as you will see OF's positioned much further in for most hitters than when metal/composite bats are used.  Every bat is balanced a bit differently.  Some days, you just have a better feel for the sweet spot with one bat over the other. That may have played into it.  Or you had a good wood bat and a metal/comp bat that isn't performing (which, again, could be for a variety of reasons).  Or the hitter is able to generate more bat speed with the balance distribution of the wood than the metal/comp.  Heck, it could be a confidence or a mental thing.  

 

I guess the best thing to do is then get another Victus bat but a 31 -3, so we can eliminate some of the variables.

 BTW, his hit box is generally -50 to +50 feet from center when we do this, so his swing path is pretty consistent roughly 80% of the time.

Thanks.

No need to drive yourself crazy with this stuff.  You are not going to discover any new science or find some perfect magic solution that will make him a great player.  IMO, the best thing to do is let him swing whatever decent bat he's comfortable with and don't worry about it.  It's much more the indian than the arrow.

I would be more inclined to think that your bucket of balls may influence distance more than the bats. I used to have some balls in the bucket that Mike Trout would have trouble hitting out of the park. Go get a dozen new MLB balls and see what happens.

cabbagedad posted:

No need to drive yourself crazy with this stuff.  You are not going to discover any new science or find some perfect magic solution that will make him a great player.  IMO, the best thing to do is let him swing whatever decent bat he's comfortable with and don't worry about it.  It's much more the indian than the arrow.

hmm, not sure if I was going down this road of trying to make him a great player for this topic, thanks for the reply though.   Swinging a wood bat during a side toss is a little different than someone throwing in high 70s and low 80s at you.  I am not sure switching over wood during a game would be wise.

mmm1531 posted:

I would be more inclined to think that your bucket of balls may influence distance more than the bats. I used to have some balls in the bucket that Mike Trout would have trouble hitting out of the park. Go get a dozen new MLB balls and see what happens.

didn't think about this, I tried to pick the best from the bucket and use the seasoned ones for warm ups.  Going to try this.

thank you.

All things being equal, longer heavier bat will produce more force. 

hshuler posted:

All things being equal, longer heavier bat will produce more force. 

yes of course!

The main reason non wood bats are used over wood is cost. You usually see one or two broken bats($125-50 ea.) per game with wood vs. near zero with composite. I don't think that there is a big difference...composite seems to produce better results on mishits, and some brands such as the Velo have more initial jump off the bat. Wood varies even within species, so no hard and fast statements can be made. That is the beauty, and frustration, of wood. No two pieces are exactly alike.

D6L posted:

cabbagedad posted:

No need to drive yourself crazy with this stuff.  You are not going to discover any new science or find some perfect magic solution that will make him a great player.  IMO, the best thing to do is let him swing whatever decent bat he's comfortable with and don't worry about it.  It's much more the indian than the arrow.

hmm, not sure if I was going down this road of trying to make him a great player for this topic, thanks for the reply though.   Swinging a wood bat during a side toss is a little different than someone throwing in high 70s and low 80s at you.  I am not sure switching over wood during a game would be wise.

Then what road were you going down?  The other poster mentioned it, wood will preform with metal on a well-struck ball. It's the miss-hits that give metal an advantage. 

Did you actually weigh the wood bat (with a kitchen scale)?  I have bought many wood bats and found that very few are -3.  Many are as light as -5.  This could make a big difference in bat speed.

Anecdotally, on hittrax. there is no difference with my kids max exit velocity with a 31 ash bat and a 31-3 ghost x.   But i think smitty is right. Our ash bat is guaranteed to be at least drop 3 but maybe more

My son played several wood bat tourneys as a 14/15/16U player then their entire 17U summer was wood.  He had actually considered switching to wood for his HS senior year because he hit so well the summer before.  I would regularly throw him BP during his junior and senior years in HS.....and he hit just as well, if not better with wood.....including just as much, if not more power.... (he wasn't big...5'9, maybe 140 at the time).     

As far as the lighter bat swinging faster thing...sure, that's correct, but the fact that the bat is lighter also means there is less power.  Which will do more damage....getting run over by a truck that's going 60, or getting run over by a Yugo going 70?  

I agree with Cabbage, don't get caught up in the weeds of the comparison, your kid's feel of the bat matters the most. However, if you journey down the Alan Nathan rabbit (I know I have like a functional addict), you should use better metrics, i.e., ev, barrel speed off a tee or a pitching device that is more consistent to measure the EV, bat speed (hit trax, rapsodo, radar, BLAST/DK etc.)

Son encoutered the same with the LS 918 last year as a HS Senior. He enjoyed the control and bat speed he got from it. However, distance wise he hit better with his Zinger Wood Bat.  

Scott,

Question, was his wood and LS same size and weight?

Thanks for the reply.

D6L posted:

Scott,

Question, was his wood and LS same size and weight?

 

Thanks for the reply.

No.  His Zingers were 32.5   Son choose the LS 918 for its balanced swing. POP on the his LS 918 did not seem to be as good as his Zinger.  

there is no rule I am aware of the that prevents you from swinging wood in college or HS...and yet it doesn't happen. The reason is because wood has a smaller sweet spot, I don't think this is in dispute. Even if the wood has a better sweet spot it is so much smaller it doesn't make sense. 

Do you really think if wood was a superior product it wouldn't be currently used by every program who really thinks they can win? 

JMO