Thought this would interest all of you. Love Wood!
DII going to wood?
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Very interesting. Thanks for posting this!
Good article.
It notes that D2 coaches are open to using wood because they're not paid off by the bat companies like D1 coaches.
D2 leads the way. Excellent. It's similar to the way that individual states began welfare reform ahead of the federal govt, and showed the feds that it was feasible.
It notes that D2 coaches are open to using wood because they're not paid off by the bat companies like D1 coaches.
D2 leads the way. Excellent. It's similar to the way that individual states began welfare reform ahead of the federal govt, and showed the feds that it was feasible.
I'm all for it. Guess I'm old school but I love watching wood bat collegiate league games. My son plays in DII and I think he would really enjoy it.
Two D2 conferences in the Northeast currently use wood. (Northeast-10 and the East Coast Conference). While power numbers have declined the games are cleaner and much shorter. Overall a much better game.
Sounds like a step in the right direction.
quote:Good article.
It notes that D2 coaches are open to using wood because they're not paid off by the bat companies like D1 coaches.
That is an interesting statement. Are you against manufactures supplementing College Baseball programs period or are you just against the coaches getting money?
I think the money angle brings up all sorts of interesting discussion/debate.
Northwest Athletic Association of Community Colleges (NWAACC) has been using wood for years.
quote:Originally posted by 1baseballdad:quote:Good article.
It notes that D2 coaches are open to using wood because they're not paid off by the bat companies like D1 coaches.
That is an interesting statement. Are you against manufactures supplementing College Baseball programs period or are you just against the coaches getting money?
I think the money angle brings up all sorts of interesting discussion/debate.
I'm not against it, although I don't think the whole game should be ruled by it. I think the more manufacturers that want to provide equipment to colleges, the better. Baseball already struggles for money. Not having the equipment provided would make things worse. Next thing you know, it would be down to 10 scholarships. Keep brining in the money.
I also think that while colleges may lose the support of metal bat makers, if they went to wood, there would be just as much support from the wood manufacturers as the metal. In fact, I would think many of the metal manufacturers also make wood and would just switch over to supplying them with wood bats.
quote:
I'm not against it, although I don't think the whole game should be ruled by it. I think the more manufacturers that want to provide equipment to colleges, the better. Baseball already struggles for money. Not having the equipment provided would make things worse. Next thing you know, it would be down to 10 scholarships. Keep brining in the money.
I also think that while colleges may lose the support of metal bat makers, if they went to wood, there would be just as much support from the wood manufacturers as the metal. In fact, I would think many of the metal manufacturers also make wood and would just switch over to supplying them with wood bats.
I think that makes perfect sense and I agree 100%. No matter what they use, the manufactures are still going to pump in money and equipment, which is a good thing.
quote:Originally posted by 1baseballdad:quote:Good article.
It notes that D2 coaches are open to using wood because they're not paid off by the bat companies like D1 coaches.
That is an interesting statement. Are you against manufactures supplementing College Baseball programs period or are you just against the coaches getting money?
I think the money angle brings up all sorts of interesting discussion/debate.
Being a realist, I'm not against either thing you mention. Baseball's a non-revenue sport.
But being a realist, I have to be skeptical about why most of the influential D1 coaches (receive salaries from metal bat cos.) are anti-wood, while many D2 coaches (don't receive money from metal bat cos.) are primarily pro-wood.
NCAA.com
Top College Coaches Prefer Metal to Wood
June 16, 2010
OMAHA, Neb. (AP) -If coaches at the top U.S. college baseball programs have their way, the ping of the aluminum bat will forever remain a part of the game.
According to an Associated Press survey of 24 coaches whose programs have won 1,000 or more games since 1985, 17 said they preferred aluminum and that there was no need to study the possibility of going to wood bats.
Five coaches said they like wood better, but all acknowledged that aluminum probably is here to stay.
Wood, of course, remains legal at all levels of college baseball. Just don't count on ever seeing it in Division I, where bat makers have long-standing relationships with the top programs.
Manufacturers such as Louisville Slugger and Easton provide free bats and other gear to elite programs and pay coaches - sometimes six figures - for agreeing to use their products.
Paul Mainieri, coach of 2009 national champion LSU, has a clause in his contract that calls for him to receive $150,000 a year from the school's athletic booster club and equipment deals. His contract does not break down how much of that money comes from Easton, the Tigers' bat supplier.
Asked about the bat issue, Mainieri said only that he prefers aluminum.
"He is concerned about saying anything that might affect his relationship with his bat company," LSU baseball spokesman Bill Franques wrote in an e-mail to The Associated Press.
Besides the coaches' paychecks, many programs save thousands of dollars a year in equipment costs because bat manufacturers supply bats for free.
"I think there's some traditionalist in all of us," said South Carolina's Ray Tanner, whose contract calls for him to receive $120,000 a year from Easton. "That being said, aluminum bats are in college baseball because of costs. I'm not sure that wooden bats would ever be possible again."
[Another coach said] "If we all of a sudden are swinging a wooden bat, there's a good chance we are not the showcase anymore," he said. "I'm realistic enough to know you're not going to ask coach A or coach X to not accept his 100K check this year so they can try this wooden bat."
Top College Coaches Prefer Metal to Wood
June 16, 2010
OMAHA, Neb. (AP) -If coaches at the top U.S. college baseball programs have their way, the ping of the aluminum bat will forever remain a part of the game.
According to an Associated Press survey of 24 coaches whose programs have won 1,000 or more games since 1985, 17 said they preferred aluminum and that there was no need to study the possibility of going to wood bats.
Five coaches said they like wood better, but all acknowledged that aluminum probably is here to stay.
Wood, of course, remains legal at all levels of college baseball. Just don't count on ever seeing it in Division I, where bat makers have long-standing relationships with the top programs.
Manufacturers such as Louisville Slugger and Easton provide free bats and other gear to elite programs and pay coaches - sometimes six figures - for agreeing to use their products.
Paul Mainieri, coach of 2009 national champion LSU, has a clause in his contract that calls for him to receive $150,000 a year from the school's athletic booster club and equipment deals. His contract does not break down how much of that money comes from Easton, the Tigers' bat supplier.
Asked about the bat issue, Mainieri said only that he prefers aluminum.
"He is concerned about saying anything that might affect his relationship with his bat company," LSU baseball spokesman Bill Franques wrote in an e-mail to The Associated Press.
Besides the coaches' paychecks, many programs save thousands of dollars a year in equipment costs because bat manufacturers supply bats for free.
"I think there's some traditionalist in all of us," said South Carolina's Ray Tanner, whose contract calls for him to receive $120,000 a year from Easton. "That being said, aluminum bats are in college baseball because of costs. I'm not sure that wooden bats would ever be possible again."
[Another coach said] "If we all of a sudden are swinging a wooden bat, there's a good chance we are not the showcase anymore," he said. "I'm realistic enough to know you're not going to ask coach A or coach X to not accept his 100K check this year so they can try this wooden bat."
quote:Originally posted by freddy77:
But being a realist, I have to be skeptical about why most of the influential D1 coaches (receive salaries from metal bat cos.) are anti-wood, while many D2 coaches (don't receive money from metal bat cos.) are primarily pro-wood.
No doubt the money plays heavily into the equation. I was shocked to see how much some of the coaches get but at the same time, I am not sure that would change since the teams would be swinging someone's wood bat and the dynamics that drive the money today would still be there. This is of course assuming HS and below follows suit moving to wood.
What might also drive their distaste for wood could be potential low scoring games (read boring to the fans)that might drive down attendance and interest. After all, everyone loves to see the ball crushed over the fence.
One thing for sure, with a 150K contract with a metal bat manufactures, you aren't about to get anything other than "we prefer metal" in a public forum.
quote:Originally posted by bballman:
I'm not against it, although I don't think the whole game should be ruled by it. I think the more manufacturers that want to provide equipment to colleges, the better. Baseball already struggles for money. Not having the equipment provided would make things worse. Next thing you know, it would be down to 10 scholarships. Keep brining in the money.
I also think that while colleges may lose the support of metal bat makers, if they went to wood, there would be just as much support from the wood manufacturers as the metal. In fact, I would think many of the metal manufacturers also make wood and would just switch over to supplying them with wood bats.
Cost to produce is much much less with alloy & composite bats versuses sourcing materials, manufacturing & distributing quality wood bats. Just don't see the wood bat mfg'ers ponying up for such lucrative contracts.
quote:Cost to produce is much much less with alloy & composite bats versuses sourcing materials, manufacturing & distributing quality wood bats. Just don't see the wood bat mfg'ers ponying up for such lucrative contracts.
Another way to look at it...
Lets say a manufacture makes $300.00 on a $350.00 metal bat. Dad buys bat for kid and kid swings bat for a year. Lets also say that he only keeps it for one year and goes through this process every year.
Now, lets say a manufactures makes $50.00 off a $100.00 wood bat. Kid goes through 6 bats in a year (batting cages, games, practice, etc). Manufacture still makes $300.00
Not to mention that if metal went away, you would suddenly see wood bat prices soar, hence margins increasing. Supply and demand.
I see it as a wash and likely we will never really know but it does bring up some pretty interesting topics to discuss in the off season.
Don't most of you guys send the metal bats back after part of a year and get a new one? I always felt as if I was getting 2 bats for that 350 price.
That being said I would love to see colleg go to all wood and I know I have said it before major league baseballs.
That being said I would love to see colleg go to all wood and I know I have said it before major league baseballs.
We've always bought new bats online, often nearly a model year old & if we got a warranty great. The savings have always been considerable, I've sent maybe 3 bats in for replacement since 1997 & have bought waaaay too many bats. My youngest picked up a new in the wrapper Stealth Speed 95 the other day for $75. 
Not sure where he thinks he's going to use it, he's swinging wood in BP & the Speed is banned for next Spring.
Not sure where he thinks he's going to use it, he's swinging wood in BP & the Speed is banned for next Spring.
It's plausible that low scoring wood bat games would drive down attendance.
However, with the exception of top DI programs in warm weather locations, attendance at college games is so low that a reduction probably wouldn't be jarring.
For example, UConn--excellent DI program with sketchy weather--played 23 games at Storrs, Ct. The attendance high was 714. Four games broke 600. Average attendance for the 23 games was 390.
How much less than 390 fans per game would UConn have if its games were played with wood bats?
Wake Forest averages about 700 at its home games....with wood bats they'd have...?
In fairness regarding college baseball attendance in general, fans are driven away by chilly weather through mid-April in many parts of the country; and students are taking final exams beginning early in May, which also reduces attendance.
However, with the exception of top DI programs in warm weather locations, attendance at college games is so low that a reduction probably wouldn't be jarring.
For example, UConn--excellent DI program with sketchy weather--played 23 games at Storrs, Ct. The attendance high was 714. Four games broke 600. Average attendance for the 23 games was 390.
How much less than 390 fans per game would UConn have if its games were played with wood bats?
Wake Forest averages about 700 at its home games....with wood bats they'd have...?
In fairness regarding college baseball attendance in general, fans are driven away by chilly weather through mid-April in many parts of the country; and students are taking final exams beginning early in May, which also reduces attendance.
Tennessee--great program, great tradition, averages around 1500 fans per home game.
With the new BBCOR bats, less offense, so the 1500 attendance drops to what?
If they switched to wood bats, the 1500 attendance drops to what?
If the % drop were 33%, would you use one type of bat instead of another in order to have 1500 people at your games instead of 1000? Maybe. I don't know.
With the new BBCOR bats, less offense, so the 1500 attendance drops to what?
If they switched to wood bats, the 1500 attendance drops to what?
If the % drop were 33%, would you use one type of bat instead of another in order to have 1500 people at your games instead of 1000? Maybe. I don't know.
quote:Originally posted by freddy77:
Tennessee--great program, great tradition, averages around 1500 fans per home game.
With the new BBCOR bats, less offense, so the 1500 attendance drops to what?
If they switched to wood bats, the 1500 attendance drops to what?
If the % drop were 33%, would you use one type of bat instead of another in order to have 1500 people at your games instead of 1000? Maybe. I don't know.
Well so much for my theory!
Appreciate you posting the numbers. In the grand scheme of things, it would appear I wasn't even in the ballpark with my comments on attendance...pun intended.
quote:Originally posted by freddy77:
It's plausible that low scoring wood bat games would drive down attendance.
However, with the exception of top DI programs in warm weather locations, attendance at college games is so low that a reduction probably wouldn't be jarring.
For example, UConn--excellent DI program with sketchy weather--played 23 games at Storrs, Ct. The attendance high was 714. Four games broke 600. Average attendance for the 23 games was 390.
How much less than 390 fans per game would UConn have if its games were played with wood bats?
Wake Forest averages about 700 at its home games....with wood bats they'd have...?
In fairness regarding college baseball attendance in general, fans are driven away by chilly weather through mid-April in many parts of the country; and students are taking final exams beginning early in May, which also reduces attendance.
Good points. The casual fan might be affected, but the true baseball fans will enjoy both slugfests and pitchers duels.
Wouldn't it be interesting to store this thread and then pull it out in 20 years when the metal bat fiasco is in the dust bin of history and kids will be growing up swinging wood or some non performance enhancing substitute?
I wish more college baseball venues were like LSU (minus the drunk fans 
) - during a weekend series last year I saw three games in very chilly February and there were almost 10,000 fans at the first game - it was sold out with about 400 people in line to buy standing room only tickets. They were tailgating 6 to 8 hours before game time. Actually, I am not sure if any of the LSU fans realized there were games being played but they had a good time anyway. 
) - during a weekend series last year I saw three games in very chilly February and there were almost 10,000 fans at the first game - it was sold out with about 400 people in line to buy standing room only tickets. They were tailgating 6 to 8 hours before game time. Actually, I am not sure if any of the LSU fans realized there were games being played but they had a good time anyway.
So cheapseats you are saying they are like cubs fans? lol
A year or so ago someone posted the top ten average attendances at college baseball games. LSU was # 1 with, I think, just under 10K fans per game. That is very impressive.
I haven't seen the figures for 2010 yet but here are the numbers for 2009 and LSU was on top by an impressive margin.
http://www.collegebaseballdail...-attendance-figures/
http://www.collegebaseballdail...-attendance-figures/
Anyone heard any more on D2 going to wood for next year?
quote:Originally posted by 1baseballdad:
What might also drive their distaste for wood could be potential low scoring games (read boring to the fans)that might drive down attendance and interest. After all, everyone loves to see the ball crushed over the fence.
Then, move the fences in. They're not pros. They're 18-22, 23. It never made sense, to me, that baseball fields can vary in size. What if some football fields were 200 yards long, others 50 yards long?
One note about wood bats-
When my son was home for Christmas, he took some bp at the batting cages. First day, he came home with a Big Stick (ash) cracked from a few inches below the blue ring to about the label.
Second day, he came home with about six inches of a Mizuno handle (maple). Looked like somebody just sawed it.
"Where's the rest of it?"
"I don't know. It went under the curtain where the balls go."
We've all seen the way those maple bats fly around when they break. Somebody's gonna get nailed with one. I don't think they should be allowed, at any level. Stick to ash.
My son plays DII and I saw about half dozen kids using wood this year. One team had two kids using wood.