Working with a rival coach.

I commend you for wanting to get in some good off season training for your son. It will pay dividends during the spring.

I guess my question is why would you call a rival coach that you play against? Of course you're going to get extra treatment from a rival. If he see's something in your son he might like...well, one never knows.

Do you not have any other pitching instructors in your area that are not affiliated with a certain high school? If so, I'd seek him out. If not, it would probably be a good idea to tell your son's coach what you are doing. Better for him to hear from you than through the grapevines!

Just hope that this does not blow up in his face when his coach finds out about it

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One smart father. One good rival coach. One silly head coach. One promising pitcher well served by most.





By the way westcolts15...welcome to the HSBBW!

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I have seen different outcomes, and several times over the years.

So let's not be blind here.

There is no smart vs dumb, here.
There is one Head Coach.

Unless the 'smart' daddy is serious about changing High Schools, the 'silly' Head Coach may have the only verdict that matters.

Oh say can you see?

WC15, It depends on the relationship of the coaching staffs. If it's a positive relationship - no problems. If not, it will not be appreciated by his HS coach. I've seen both situations, the latter was a train wreck for the kid, and the rival coach loved every minute of it at his expense.

But, as a DAD, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. It is what it is.GED10DaD

I think there are two "never do" things.

1) Never take lessons from any person who is affiliated with a rival (same league).

2) Never play on a club team with a dad/coach who has a son that plays the same position as your kid.

Gunemdown makes a good point. I've had coaches call me in the past to work with some of their kids. The way I looked at it, it was more money for my program since all the money I made went straight in to the hs baseball program. If these staffs get along then no problem. Also, for the sake of instruction, it is always better for a coach who is double dipping and giving private lessons on the side to be able to point out that he is open to giving instructon to all commers. You might note that this coach is also learning your child's weaknesses. That won't be a good thing. Finally, beware of any conversations that might be misconstrued as recruitment. It will put you and your son is a difficult position.

Another thought, and this could be miscommunication on the part of the coach or the father....maybe the school coache CAN'T coach the kid due to state rules. In Ohio, out of season, we cannot coach our own kids, individually or as a team; maybe that is why he couldn't.

Doesn't explain, I guess, why he didn't give any other options to the player or dad. Could the poster give us more information on how things shook out?

Believe me, if I had a kid ask about pitching lessons and I wasn't allowed to work with them, I'd send them to a rival coach in a heartbeat if I knew he was good and could work with them.

Be careful that this does not become a situation that will put your son in an uncomfortable posistion.

"Did you hear that Coach Jones is working with a player from _______ HS!" "I hear that the kid is very unhappy with his HC and is working with Coach Jones." Blah blah blah

Understand that even though your intentions are just to get your son some good instruction there will be alot of talk about your son getting instruction from a rival coach. Also understand that his coach may not enjoy hearing about it and also having to explain why this is going on. It could casue some friction.

Also when a kid takes lessons from someone they build a bond and a relationship with that person. It could become a situation where your son is coming home and saying "I wish I could play for Coach Jones." Now when things dont go exactly right at his school he will think about Coach Jones and his great relationship he as with him. When his coach teaches something that does not jive with his instructor what happens? The coach that is working with him is not going to be getting in his a_s. He is going to be his friend , his mentor , his instructor , etc etc. It could cause for a very sticky situation.

Or it may not. It may go fine. Is it worth the potential issues that it could cause?

I would have my son go to "His" coach and tell him he wants some additional instruction. Tell him he is thinking about getting some instruction from Coach Jones. Have him ask his coach how he feels about this. Doing it behind his back is not a good option imo.

The best scenario is getting the instruction from someone that is not connected to any HS program unless it is his own. Or a coach that his HC has a relationship with and approves of it before it is done. This is just my opinion. I wish your son the best. Just be careful.

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"...the 'silly' Head Coach may have the only verdict that matters."

And that is sad and silly isn't it?







Good advice from Coach May!




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One more thing. If a players HS coach will not work with him or assist him in getting some instruction that tells you alot about that coach. You go out and you find him some instruction. But if its going to be someone that you are going to be competing against be upfront. First I would try to find a person that was not affiliated with a program.

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More great advice and insight!



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This rival coach owns his own baseball school so its not like he is doing this just for my son and his players. About the rules I'am not really sure if you can work with his own players or not this time of year. The reason we decided to get instruction elsewhere is because I don't see where his HS coach now has developed alot of kids. Don't get me wrong he sends alot of kids to college just had 6 out of 8 seniors sign early. I know its hard to believe but it seems he just wants finished products and how they get finished its up to the individual player to get there. Its a crazy.

It is up to the individual player how he gets there.

Absolutely!

quote:

Originally posted by westcolts15:
My son is a HS freshman currently at a very strong baseball school in KY. Talked to his head coach about who should we get to work with his mechanics with his pitching over the current off season. Seems he did not take my question serious. Made one phone called to a rival head coach from the school that knocked them out of the regional tourny last spring and said bring him over he would be more then happy to work with my son the next 2 months. Went to our first lesson last night it went really well. It almost seems that my son is getting more personal attention from other coachs, then his current hs coach. Any opinions about working with a rival coach as a pitching instructor?

No harm no foul - sounds like a case of an established coach knowing another guy and wanting to help his players out.

As for the rules in KY (unless it's changed in the past two years but I doubt it) the head coach at the player's high school cannot do any coaching at all. He can be at workouts as long as he or his coaches are not providing direct instruction to the players. They are there for safety purposes only.

Westcolts15 I was a baseball coach in KY for 15 years - with 9 as a head coach - and I've gotten to know quite a few guys. If you want to PM me and ask any questions about these guys I will give you my honest opinion of them. But if not no problem.

There were several guys in the region I was coaching in that I would trust completely to provide off season instruction if they offered it. And I believe the feeling was mutual from them. In fact this past summer a coach we competed against down here in NC asked our entire staff to be instructors at his camp.

Here is my feelings on this - I'm going to help any kid grow as a baseball player and / or get them into college. If that means it's a kid from a school I play then so be it. I've made several calls to college coaches to help other players out and I have no problem with it. If I help a kid on the field get better then I'm ok with that. One argument might be that he could use those skills to beat me - I guess I can see that but I look at it like I got 18ish guys who were taught those same skills. I think my 18ish should overall do better than just that one.

I'm not going to recruit anyone - ever. If you want to play for me then fine, no problem and come on. Understand you will get a chance just like others and I'm going to hold you to a high standard like others. If you mess up I'll probably yell at you like I will the others. I'm not going to treat you any different, better or worse than anyone. I'm not going to kiss anybody's rearend to play for me.

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The parent of a freshmen should make the effort and NOT try to pi^^ the 'silly' Head Coach off under any circumstances (which it appears the parent may have already).

Should the freshmen pi^^ the Head Coach off, then
I am sure many can understand the potential outcomes.

In other words, and let's make this real easy, should the freshman NOT do what the 'silly' Head Coach has requested, whether it's in the classroom, or on the field, paying one dues will be around for a bit longer.

The expresssion: "Do it my way, or hit the highway" has been around a bit.

I enjoy Tom Cochrane Mad Mad World album, and his hit single Life is a Highway, currently playing on the home theater.

Thus "this will blow up in his face when his HC finds out about it"

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And with that the silliness continues!

Paying dues is important...without question. Being rude and arrogant may be part of that, but If the coach chooses to behave that way, then I think he's being silly. In my book he could and should be a better coach.




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I was thinking about saying: Peace,

nah

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Great minds think alike!



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There are maybe five things I may observe in your book.

1. The cartoons

2. Experience coaching 14-18 years is limited.

3. Confict resolution skills with parents is limited.

4. It's may never be a best seller.

quote:

Originally posted by GunEmDown10:
But, as a DAD, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. It is what it is.GED10DaD

quote:

Originally posted by westcolts15:
Talked to his head coach about who should we get to work with his mechanics with his pitching over the current off season. Seems he did not take my question serious. Made one phone called to a rival head coach from the school that knocked them out of the regional tourny last spring and said bring him over he would be more then happy to work with my son the next 2 months.

The kid's coach did not take this dad's question seriously. This is about student-athlete development. The dad did what he had to do.

When my sons were in hs, we became friends with a hs coach from a rival high school. No big deal. Our friend offered to work with our sons with their hitting and strength training. No big deal. He did--at the rival coach's high school, and when my son played against the coach's school, our son hit very well. The coach was proud of him, too. I don't recall who won, but it was no big deal.

I had forgotten about this until reading this thread. It was not a big deal. Neither one of us had any ulterior motives. The coach knew that our coach was less than good, and wanted to help our sons. For him, it was all about the kids. He took no money, he did not try to recruit them. He was a true "good guy".

By the time our younger son was playing, our friend was no longer coaching in the rival high school. Our coach finally was removed after our sons had graduated. They will never forget which "coach" had their best interest at heart.

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"Great minds think alike!"

Perhaps not.



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quote:

Originally posted by gotwood4sale:

"Great minds think alike!"

This is my HSBBW posting personal advizer adviser advicer Dang... never mind. GED10DaD

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quote:

Any opinions about working with a rival coach as a pitching instructor?

My son takes hitting lessons from a rival high school coach. If you're a baseball guy it's about the kids not a high school game. His high school coach is aware and approves. The coach doesn't care where the kids get in their work as long as they get it done. The hitting coach is affiliated with his showcase team.

There are some key things here RJM. #1 If your a baseball guy.
#2 His high school coach is aware and approves. #3 The coach doesnt care where the kids get in their work as long as they get it done.

The HS coach should be made aware of it. If not be prepared for some possible hard feelings. He doesnt have to like it. But he should be made aware of it. He is going to find out. Better from you than someone else.

Alot of kids work with other coaches for various reasons. I wouldnt do it without being upfront before I did. jmho

quote:

Originally posted by Bear:
There are maybe five things I may observe in your book.

1. The cartoons

2. Experience coaching 14-18 years is limited.

3. Confict resolution skills with parents is limited.

4. It's may never be a best seller.

I like the woodman.

Woody your ok with me.

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Thank you dub-L-play. Those were kind remarks.

And Bear is right...don't look for any of my books on the New York Times Best Seller list.




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Don't see a problem with this at all. Since the kid's HS coach didn't take the question seriously, he probably don't care and shouldn't care. The HS coach should be thrilled the player is going for the extra coaching regardless who's teaching.

I don't see where a coach would get mad at a rival coach for instructing one of hos players. Especially if the player's coach don't bother doing this stuff.

When my kid played HS ball, his coach never did anything baseball whatsoever with his players outside anything of the school which was limited to maybe the offseason conditioning in the winter and the baseball season. Players were on their own as far as summer ball and instruction the rest of the year.