Workouts

Alan, you live near me so I will be location specific.

1. Your travel ball org may have an indoor facility you can practice in.  Titans, ECB, 643 all have them.

2. Indoor cages are available for rent at Fury, I think it is $25 for a half hour.  Or you could have a machine pitch to him at the Cherokee batting range, buy some tokens and the machine will pitch to him until he is tired. Here are more cages https://www.yelp.com/search?cf...d_loc=Marietta%2C+GA

3. Don't knock a net and a tee set up in the basement.If you don't have a basement check with others on the team, they might.

4. D-bat is near you, perhaps you should go talk with them.  Try to PM the member called Elijah, I believe he is in your neck of the woods with the same age group.

5. The younger age groups usually rent a cage at Fury and the coaches do batting practice over the winter.  If they don't you could always purchase a lesson.  I have some suggestions if that's the direction you want to go.

Find indoor cages in your area to continue working in the winter and find yourself a good,  well respected baseball organization.  Weight and/or agility training is also a good way to stay in shape even if it doesn't include baseball specifics.

Since you're in Marietta, I definitely recommend D-Bat in Kennesaw.  You can get a "membership" that makes it a bit more efficient.  Fairly new (about a year old) and REALLY nice facility.  Adam Everett is one of the partners, so it's run by baseball people with opportunities for lessons and instruction.  I know several MLB teams have already begun using it for pre-draft private player workouts.

That's a great place to start for your area.

Thanks for the quick responses.  Caco we actually moved this summer down to Columbus Ga.  We were spoiled in the Marietta area.  It is a little smaller here and not as many open fields and so far the outdoor cages we find are really bad. 

We have rented a cage once, but that will get very expensive.

What is a workout like....... ground balls, hitting, long toss?  How often a week - daily or every other day?  

Alan

JCS Sports is also in Kennesaw and has facilities available to rent from cages to fielding space. 

Alanj posted:

Thanks for the quick responses.  Caco we actually moved this summer down to Columbus Ga.  We were spoiled in the Marietta area.  It is a little smaller here and not as many open fields and so far the outdoor cages we find are really bad. 

We have rented a cage once, but that will get very expensive.

What is a workout like....... ground balls, hitting, long toss?  How often a week - daily or every other day?  

Alan

Alanj, might want to update your profile as to where you live, lol!

Honestly, even when my son was younger I shut him down from November-February, he didn't throw a ball over his head. He wasn't even a pitcher back then. Over the winter months he took speed and agility twice a week to learn how to move his ever changing body. Also, during 12u, his coach completely changed his swing over the winter months. Something about "the swing that works for youth baseball isn't going to work at the higher levels" so he redid the whole thing over winter, can't complain since he swings well.

There are 3 different outdoor cages within a short distance from our house so from mid-April through mid-October here in Wisconsin it is easy to find somewhere to go hit.  For winter months we either are part of an indoor facility because he is on a team or we purchase a membership to one....

It gets busy, he likes to hit 5-6 days a week, plus he's lifting weights 2 nights a week with a trainer plus one additional night of lifting at home.  We try to work in the ground ball/defensive work on days he hits where there isn't a team activity or hitting lesson.  

The biggest priority for his Freshman year is working on Strength & Speed, and Hitting.

AlanJ we pay about $250 per year to a couple of baseball training places where there are indoor cages, qualified instruction for hitting, pitching, etc. My son hits about 3-4 times per week in the off season, but does strength, speed and agility training another 2-3 times a week at another place.  When he doesn't have time to go to these locations he does workouts in our garage, even when it's cold! 

To reduce costs, I know plenty of families who have pitched in to do group sessions.  The kids learn a lot and then they can do some of it on their own or together at someone's house. I do think getting qualified instruction a few times a year is important because they grow and change so fast that the workouts change and adjust to their altered physical abilities.

I'm sure every area of the country has its own norms, so it might also be best to talk to parents of older players on the local high school team (we learned a lot that way) or even the coach.

i don't know if this helps, but hopefully your getting some good info from the responses. 

Depending on how old your son is, mine got to know the owner of the local batting cage after taking lessons from him (we only have one facility with three cages) and now trades out babysitting the facility when teams come in for hitting periodically. We also have a D3 here in town, he's reached out to some of the college guys to find people to hit and throw with and they take him in occasionally to use the school's facilities.

Otherwise, he does strength and conditioning and agility with his HS team or on his own at the Y.

Awesome info.  I am very much a novice when it comes to this stuff.  I did change my profile. 

Don - my wife has tried to get my son into yoga.....he has resisted so far.  

Midwest mom - that helps alot.  It is much appreciated.

He is still playing since he did not play much in late spring and summer due to moving.  

3and2 the info is much appreciated.  I think my son is just behind yours in age - 2022.  He has done very little weight lifting.  We will look for good speed and agility coach for the winter.  

Alan

Alan - my son didn't start doing weight training until the summer after 8th Grade, and even then it was very basic stuff and continues to be very basic as we move through the Fall of freshman year.  We have a good trainer working with him  who we trust.  I'm seeing a lot of progress from it, already.  He is much noticeably bigger and stronger.

My Kid will say that he feels that he fell behind by not doing weight training much earlier (i.e. 6th grade or so).  Biologically I don't think he was ready.  In retrospect more core strength work (yoga, planks, sit-ups) would have been good.  I believe in the old adage "don't lift till he has hair under his arms".  Saw too many kids get injured from lifting too young.  Anectodal?  Maybe.  Didn't feel a need to risk it.

Speed & Agility training is good stuff.  There are plenty of high level travel teams that don't select a player if their 60 time is too slow.

14U (Dec birthday) (CF/2nd baseman.......5'9" and 163 lbs) started working out 1 1/2 years ago.  

He has been doing yoga for about a year and a half (3-4 times / week for 1 hour at a local yoga place).

each day week he does 3 sets of 5 of 3 types of pull ups using a band to lesson the weight for good form.

No other weight training other than core work with medicine balls.  He also uses bands for core work.  

In season, just core work, speed work, and yoga.

Out of season we hit with a 34/31 swinging as hard as we can for bucket to build functional strength and bat speed.  Then 1/2 bucket  with his normal bat....all off tee in garage.

He goes to grocery store with us to pick out his food (or what he wants us to cook him).  Lots of chicken and steak.  He loves the gatorade protein powder in smoothies.

No hitting lessons from end of June to end of October.  Then 1/2 hour lessons once a week.  

Team takes fall ball off, only practices, of which 90% is done w/o any throwing.

We gear back up throwing after christmas break so that we are ready for practices that start in February.

Hope this helps.

Best way to get faster is to get stronger. I am not saying that younger players need to start throwing around the weights but once they get into high school, I would definitely recommend a beginner's strength training program before or at the same time as speed/agility training. As a football and weight room coach, I can tell you that I have seen countless HS football players make big gains in terms of speed development just by dedicating themselves to the weight room along with a solid training program.

3and2 is right. Too many kids lifting too early and get hurt - really hurt where recurring injuries happen. I see it a lot. And also a watch out - the high school lifting programs tend to be targeted for football players. Baseball player strength training is different (of course some kids play football too and that's a different story). I'm sure others can weigh in on this issue of weight/strength training for baseball. 

Midwest Mom posted:

 Baseball player strength training is different.

+1

Thanks for the info.  I have not allowed him to lift any weights yet.  His school coach tried to get the players into the weight room to start doing some light weight workouts but something happened and it all stopped.  Midwest Mom and Iowa mom the replies are really appreciated.  Russin - you kid is big - mine is all of 5 ft 3 in and about 105 pounds.

I will agree that you need to be careful when choosing who is working with your son. I will also agree that you need to be careful with high school football training programs. As with anything, you need to do your homework before having your son work with any trainer or coach (meaning a coach that you are paying). I am a high school football coach who has a degree in exercise science and understands the demands of various sports. There are differences but not nearly as many as you would think. An example of modification for baseball players might be neutral db press as opposed to barbell bench. Another example might be jump shrugs as opposed to power cleans. However, I am going to strongly disagree with the scare tactic regarding weight training when young. It is widely recognized by the sports performance industry as well as the medical field that weight training is safe if the exercise is being performed correctly with appropriate weight and by someone who is trained properly.

I think one of the reasons that so many young baseball players are behind the curve in terms of strength development and athleticism is because parents have been mislead about weight training. Treat it just like you would when looking for a pitching or hitting coach. Find someone highly qualified who has a great track record. Just for the record, I have been working with my son since he was in 5th grade. We started with pvc pipe and broomstick handles to grove technique. Did perfect pushups long before he ever picked up a dumbbell. Did bodyweight split squats long before he ever put a barbell on his back for squats. I can guarantee you he is the strongest baseball player on our team and has had fewer injuries and recovered quicker then his teammates. He is also faster then most other then the genetically gifted. He is also told by just about every baseball coach that he meets, that he is very athletic. A lot of this is a direct result of his training and getting started at a relatively young age.

Disagree if you like but I have a fair amount of experience and my son is an excellent example of  what can happen when trained appropriately!

coachld posted:

I will agree that you need to be careful when choosing who is working with your son. I will also agree that you need to be careful with high school football training programs. As with anything, you need to do your homework before having your son work with any trainer or coach (meaning a coach that you are paying). I am a high school football coach who has a degree in exercise science and understands the demands of various sports. There are differences but not nearly as many as you would think. An example of modification for baseball players might be neutral db press as opposed to barbell bench. Another example might be jump shrugs as opposed to power cleans. However, I am going to strongly disagree with the scare tactic regarding weight training when young. It is widely recognized by the sports performance industry as well as the medical field that weight training is safe if the exercise is being performed correctly with appropriate weight and by someone who is trained properly.

I think one of the reasons that so many young baseball players are behind the curve in terms of strength development and athleticism is because parents have been mislead about weight training. Treat it just like you would when looking for a pitching or hitting coach. Find someone highly qualified who has a great track record. Just for the record, I have been working with my son since he was in 5th grade. We started with pvc pipe and broomstick handles to grove technique. Did perfect pushups long before he ever picked up a dumbbell. Did bodyweight split squats long before he ever put a barbell on his back for squats. I can guarantee you he is the strongest baseball player on our team and has had fewer injuries and recovered quicker then his teammates. He is also faster then most other then the genetically gifted. He is also told by just about every baseball coach that he meets, that he is very athletic. A lot of this is a direct result of his training and getting started at a relatively young age.

Disagree if you like but I have a fair amount of experience and my son is an excellent example of  what can happen when trained appropriately!

What you did with your son wasn't weights, and I think that's where kids mess themselves up.

A baseball coach that has been around forever told me "let him use his body weight against himself, bands are good too, but don't let him pick up anything over 20 pounds until he has to shave at least once a month. That may be when he's 12 or it might be when he's 16, but until he's shaving his body isn't clicked together enough to handle real weights."

How do you feel about that advice Coachld?

AlanJ,

We thought so too.  As I mentioned in the travel ball team post, we chose to leave "friends" behind and play on a really good team this past year and the team performed really well playing up and age group against mostly 14U Major teams.  

At the end of the year (as always) there was some change in the roster.  I've attached a pic from the 1st practice a couple of weeks ago  New kids are in the black.  My kid is 3rd from the right (and he is 5'9").  Middle kids are 6'3" and 6'4". 

My wife looked at the new kids and said "are they lost, the high school is down the street".  SMH.    Look forward to the upcoming year traveling around the US and playing the best though, hopefully setting up a successful high school / select 4 years.

One thing I kind of forgot about. In youth ball, my son was a catcher and pitcher. He didn't really start lifting until early high school, but this might be another option.

His USSSA coach told him in middle school that if he wasn't going to play football, he had to run cross country. He did for two years. His legs went from normal to amazing.

(Only downside is we still have trouble finding pants that fit his 32" waist and his thighs, which are huge).

At the same time, he was taking pitching lessons from a local guy who had been drafted as a pitcher and screwed up his arm. The guy told him that he had to learn to pitch with his legs, not just his arm, because "I never learned that lesson and that's why I'm here teaching you instead of pitching in the MLB."

The combination of that message plus the cross country was powerful and I really believe those two years had a huge impact on my son's progress.

Thanks for all the info.  My wife is taking to meet with a coach this afternoon.  He played baseball and is a strength and agility coach.   We see if she likes him or not.  

He is already fast.  Just needs to improve and get stronger in the core.  He will start swimming in a couple of weeks for school.  That helps.

I have thought about asking him to if he would like to run track but have not said anything about it to him. 

Russin those are some big boys.  We played a team from the Dominican Republic this weekend that had a 17 year old at catcher. Lost by one run.  We are starting to see the bigger kids.  Alex loves to pitch against them.  They tend to under estimate him.

coachld posted:

 However, I am going to strongly disagree with the scare tactic regarding weight training when young. It is widely recognized by the sports performance industry as well as the medical field that weight training is safe if the exercise is being performed correctly with appropriate weight and by someone who is trained properly.

I think one of the reasons that so many young baseball players are behind the curve in terms of strength development and athleticism is because parents have been mislead about weight training. Treat it just like you would when looking for a pitching or hitting coach. Find someone highly qualified who has a great track record. Just for the record, I have been working with my son since he was in 5th grade. We started with pvc pipe and broomstick handles to grove technique. Did perfect pushups long before he ever picked up a dumbbell. Did bodyweight split squats long before he ever put a barbell on his back for squats. I can guarantee you he is the strongest baseball player on our team and has had fewer injuries and recovered quicker then his teammates. He is also faster then most other then the genetically gifted. He is also told by just about every baseball coach that he meets, that he is very athletic. A lot of this is a direct result of his training and getting started at a relatively young age.

Disagree if you like but I have a fair amount of experience and my son is an excellent example of  what can happen when trained appropriately!

I agree with CoachLD, especially some of the points I bolded.

Improved athleticism and injury prevention are the major benefits of strength & conditioning work.  If a strength program is making you bulky and inflexible, and causing you to get hurt, then you should revisit the intent of the program with your "coach".  Or get rid of them and find a new one.

Just thought I would update this thread with a recent Facebook post from Eric Cressey. Perfect for this discussion:

”When your kid sprints, he encounters ground reaction forces several times greater than his body weight.

When he jumps out of trees, those numbers are even higher – and he’s probably landing on more unpredictable environment.

When he wears a big backpack full of books, he’s actually lifting weights without any coaching whatsoever.

Doing a goblet squat with a 20-pound dumbbell isn’t going to stunt your 9-year-old’s growth. And it isn’t going to turn him into a meathead steroid abuser.

What it will probably do is teach him a lot about the value of hard work. It’ll demonstrate that consistently showing up and putting effort into something can lead to specific quantifiable improvements.

It’ll make him more durable to participate in and enjoy sports – and do so at a higher level than he otherwise would have experienced.

It’ll also likely put him in a position to roll with a different social circle than he’d normally frequent.

I can’t guarantee you that any of those things will lead to a college scholarship or career in professional sports. But I can tell you that they’ll all contribute to a well-rounded, more confident young adult who’ll be much more likely to exercise regularly for the rest of his life.

So, before you worry about the potential downsides of getting your child involved in strength and conditioning at a young age, think first about the guaranteed upsides.

*I used the “he” pronoun throughout this post. All of these benefits are just as prevalent – if not MORESO – in female athletes. My two-year-old daughters play in the gym every single day, and that’s not changing anytime soon.”

- Eric Cressey

First, strength training has a huge impact on performance.  Second, strength training is starting younger and younger.  

How is this changing the game?  I would equate HS Varsity level strength and conditioning in large classification schools at the same level of college programs 20 yrs ago.  With JV and middle school at the level of HS Varsity programs of 20 yrs ago.  

Players are getting bigger, stronger, and better conditioned at younger ages.  At ages where the pool of players is still large.  Is this starting to muddy the talent pool?  With more players in better condition at younger ages are more naturally skilled players getting missed?  Players with a higher ceiling?  

coachld posted:

Just thought I would update this thread with a recent Facebook post from Eric Cressey. Perfect for this discussion:

”When your kid sprints, he encounters ground reaction forces several times greater than his body weight.

When he jumps out of trees, those numbers are even higher – and he’s probably landing on more unpredictable environment.

When he wears a big backpack full of books, he’s actually lifting weights without any coaching whatsoever.

Doing a goblet squat with a 20-pound dumbbell isn’t going to stunt your 9-year-old’s growth. And it isn’t going to turn him into a meathead steroid abuser.

What it will probably do is teach him a lot about the value of hard work. It’ll demonstrate that consistently showing up and putting effort into something can lead to specific quantifiable improvements.

It’ll make him more durable to participate in and enjoy sports – and do so at a higher level than he otherwise would have experienced.

It’ll also likely put him in a position to roll with a different social circle than he’d normally frequent.

I can’t guarantee you that any of those things will lead to a college scholarship or career in professional sports. But I can tell you that they’ll all contribute to a well-rounded, more confident young adult who’ll be much more likely to exercise regularly for the rest of his life.

So, before you worry about the potential downsides of getting your child involved in strength and conditioning at a young age, think first about the guaranteed upsides.

*I used the “he” pronoun throughout this post. All of these benefits are just as prevalent – if not MORESO – in female athletes. My two-year-old daughters play in the gym every single day, and that’s not changing anytime soon.”

- Eric Cressey

I don't think that contradicts what the old coach told me.  Body weight yes, but nothing over 20 pounds.

Thanks for all the information.  My wife and son liked the trainer they met.  He will go to see him once a week.  For the winter until MS ball starts around February.   

Caco - we are going over to Dbat this weekend since we are in Marietta for a few days.  He enjoys that when he can get there.  

As for what Coach I'd is saying - I have heard it is ok to allow you kid to do weights....just be sure the trainer knows what they are doing.  I don't therefore my son has not done any weights other than body weight exercises and small 6 pound weights

CaCO3Girl posted:

coachld posted:

Just thought I would update this thread with a recent Facebook post from Eric Cressey. Perfect for this discussion:

”When your kid sprints, he encounters ground reaction forces several times greater than his body weight.

When he jumps out of trees, those numbers are even higher – and he’s probably landing on more unpredictable environment.

When he wears a big backpack full of books, he’s actually lifting weights without any coaching whatsoever.

Doing a goblet squat with a 20-pound dumbbell isn’t going to stunt your 9-year-old’s growth. And it isn’t going to turn him into a meathead steroid abuser.

What it will probably do is teach him a lot about the value of hard work. It’ll demonstrate that consistently showing up and putting effort into something can lead to specific quantifiable improvements.

It’ll make him more durable to participate in and enjoy sports – and do so at a higher level than he otherwise would have experienced.

It’ll also likely put him in a position to roll with a different social circle than he’d normally frequent.

I can’t guarantee you that any of those things will lead to a college scholarship or career in professional sports. But I can tell you that they’ll all contribute to a well-rounded, more confident young adult who’ll be much more likely to exercise regularly for the rest of his life.

So, before you worry about the potential downsides of getting your child involved in strength and conditioning at a young age, think first about the guaranteed upsides.

*I used the “he” pronoun throughout this post. All of these benefits are just as prevalent – if not MORESO – in female athletes. My two-year-old daughters play in the gym every single day, and that’s not changing anytime soon.”

- Eric Cressey

I don't think that contradicts what the old coach told me.  Body weight yes, but nothing over 20 pounds.

I would respectfully disagree. I don't think it directly contradicts but it does not confirm either. Cherry picking "20 pounds" is not helpful at all. Cressey does not make any reference to shaving and does use a 9-year old as subject. If Cressey was able to respond I can almost guarantee he would say something more along the lines of "safely progressing" a young athlete in the weightroom. IMO, if your son is working with a performance coach and you are spending $$$, there should never be a cookie cutter approach to training athletes and particularly young athletes. Do to numbers, this is definitely more challenging in a school weight training environment where we are forced to use more of a standard program then tweak based on sports requirements and strengths/weaknesses of each athlete as we progress through the program. Obviously depends on the knowledge and experience of coaches at each individual school. I will say that I have seen far more bad then good in a high school environment where many of the weightroom coaches are sport coaches with little knowledge of current training practices.

A good performance training coach is going to begin by assessing the athlete, making note of strengths/weaknesses which should include stability, mobility, muscle imbalances, etc. The program should then be tailored to each individual. Each individual should then monitored as they work through the program and progress as they develop. If a young athlete is able to safely goblet squat with great technique using a 20lb kettlebell, then they should progress to a heavier load and be watched carefully to ensure that the movement continues to be performed in a safe manner. This is what we call the progressive overload principle.

My last thought is regarding your source. A long time baseball coach is probably not the best source for performance training recommendations. Would you choose someone to prepare your taxes simply because they had been using turbotax for a long time to prepare their own taxes? I would venture to say not. You are going to find a CPA who has extensive knowledge of tax law and a great reputation. My recommendation is that you find a respected performance coach in your area and ask lots of questions. I can guarantee you that they will disagree with the long time baseball coach as well.

Sorry, one more thought. Be very careful if you are a parent, without background in performance training, attempting to train your son. I have seen this go wrong more often then not. Progressive overload should never occur if technique is not spot on and can result in injury. Great resources are IYCA and if looking for something more baseball specific, Eric Cressey's youtube channel.

After seeing a 7 year old bench pressing, with a spotter because it was so heavy, I've decided the entire world is nuts.

 Glad my kid is in high school, and yes he goes to a place that are pretty much disciples of Cressey, he's actually speaking there next month. I've never seen anyone in there under the age of 12.

P.S the title of the cressey article is "thoughts on kids and resistance training"....not weight lifting, not weight room, RESISTANCE. 

It's just like many other things in sports, they need to learn the proper technique and need to progress slowly until their growth plates close.

here's the thing:  pre-teen weight lifting is a relatively new phenomenon.   Weight lifting for kids age 13 & 14 is relatively new(er) too.  The long term negative effects for pre-teen kids that weight lift?  Unknown.  Maybe nothing. 

I'd prefer to "slow cook" my kid, and not let him be anyone's guinea pig.  Now that he's in high school, has hair under his arms, hair on his upper lip, we're letting him progress slowly with strength training under the watchful eye of an expert trainer.

CaCO3Girl posted:

P.S the title of the cressey article is "thoughts on kids and resistance training"....not weight lifting, not weight room, RESISTANCE. 

Just sharing so you know...resistance training and lifting weights are the same thing. Resistance training is more common term used by performance coaches.

My thoughts on this are not an attempt to win a debate or be a jerk. I am also not trying to convince you to change your mind. I am just trying to offer some insight based on my knowledge and experience. I have seen first hand the benefits of weight (resistance) training in young athletes. As I have indicated, it needs to be done the right way with a knowledgeable coach.

It is also important to note that not all males develop at the same age. I talk with parents a lot about biological vs physiological age. I like to use + or - 2 years as a rough guideline. So you might have two baseball players in the weightroom with one in the body of a 14-year old and the other in the body of an 18-year old. If we follow the recommendation of waiting until facial hair develops, then the poor 16-year old in a 14-year old body may not hit the weights until he has finished HS. That just does not make a lot of sense.

3and2Fastball posted:

It's just like many other things in sports, they need to learn the proper technique and need to progress slowly until their growth plates close.

here's the thing:  pre-teen weight lifting is a relatively new phenomenon.   Weight lifting for kids age 13 & 14 is relatively new(er) too.  The long term negative effects for pre-teen kids that weight lift?  Unknown.  Maybe nothing. 

I'd prefer to "slow cook" my kid, and not let him be anyone's guinea pig.  Now that he's in high school, has hair under his arms, hair on his upper lip, we're letting him progress slowly with strength training under the watchful eye of an expert trainer.

Yes, I agree preteen weight lifting is new, but preteen kids have been managing heavy physical work for much longer than in our current society.  I grew up on a ranch and was moving heavy weight long before I was a teenager.  Farm strong is a very common term.  Managing hay bales, bags of grain, wheel barrows, t bars, fencing, and etc etc etc..  Equates to a lot of load baring weight work. 

So the fact that we have a lot less manual labor in our kids day to day lives we are finding the need to build that strength in a weight room.  What I found with my son was I couldn't motivate him enough to lift as a preteen.  I wasn't dedicated enough to ensure he was working out enough to get any benefit.  I couldn't afford or justify the expense of a trainer for a 11yr old.  

I have many times teased or tested the water =-) with my wife in regards to having a pile of gravel dumped at the house and just have the kids move it with a wheel barrel and shovel to the back yard.  That was never received very well.  

My point being the idea that kids can't safely perform heavy work is ludicrous.  They have been doing it for centuries.  The challenge is motivating the average preteen to lift weights in replace of manual labor which I think is very slim.  The only kids that I watched do enough weight work to generate results were the sons of dads that actively worked out at home.  

3and2Fastball posted:

It's just like many other things in sports, they need to learn the proper technique and need to progress slowly until their growth plates close.

here's the thing:  pre-teen weight lifting is a relatively new phenomenon.   Weight lifting for kids age 13 & 14 is relatively new(er) too.  The long term negative effects for pre-teen kids that weight lift?  Unknown.  Maybe nothing. 

I'd prefer to "slow cook" my kid, and not let him be anyone's guinea pig.  Now that he's in high school, has hair under his arms, hair on his upper lip, we're letting him progress slowly with strength training under the watchful eye of an expert trainer.

We are on the same page in terms of progressing slowly. I agree 100%. This is the progressive overload principle. More weight should only be added once someone has demonstrated that he can perform the movement properly and is ready to add additional resistance. Sometimes this can be as little as 2 1/2 to 5 lbs. Also good to know that growth plates don't completely close for most males until the tail end of HS and some as late as 20-21. Still safe to train with growth plates open but also why it is so important that it is done under the watchful eye of someone who knows what they are doing.

Another piece regarding preteen lifting compared to physical chores is consistency.  Kids that have physical chores typically need to do them on a consistent bases.  Basically daily over their entire youth.  How many <12 yr olds are able to regularly lift weights over any significant period of time?  This is probably why only the kids of dads who work out at home on a regular bases have a shot at successfully gaining long term strength as a kid.  They are more likely to stay with it long enough to reap the benefits.

COACHLD -  I liked what you wrote about kettle-bell squats.  The trainer has my Kid doing those once a week (hex bar deadlifts on another day per week) and is a real stickler for proper technique at all times.  It completely makes sense to have a kid master kettle bell squats before you load up a bar on their shoulders for back squats.

I apologize to anyone who thinks I'm trying to convince others or that I'm trying to win.  Have you seen my cousin Vinny?  "You think we"re arguing, I think we're finally tawwwkin!"  Not that you accused me of this coachld, but just wanted to put it out there.

1. They aren't called weight lifting bands, when people say resistance training it's expected they are discussing band work and excercises that use their own body weight against them.  Not bench presses.

2. I have no problem with 95# 18 year olds not weight lifting.  Personally I'd hate to be that kid watching others bench 350 and I'm struggling with the 45 pound bar.  Not all kids are created equal, there is biological age and physiological age, and they shouldn't be treated the same. Shaving does seem to be a good tell.

3. Kids absolutely use to do farm work and the like.  My point isn't that they are incapable of doing the work, my point is that type of load hurts them in the long term. Think back to those farmers, how are their bodies at age 20? 30? 40?

You guys have seen what you have seen and I've seen what I've seen.  We aren't going to convince each other.  Growth plate issues where the hip separates from the body, where the elbow has things pulling away from the bone and the kids whole arm has to be casted, where the 14 year old catcher is already having knee surgery...uh....I've seen too many kids push themselves for short term gain. In the long run it bites them, and it bites them hard. 

This is another case of "being left behind" by your peers.  I'm not buying that 8th grade commits are normal and I'm not buying that not having a 9 year old bench pressing will leave him behind his peers. 

I have no problem with agreeing to disagree. As I said, I am not trying to convince you. My problem lies with some statements you have made that are not factual. I don’t think it is fair to the community to let those slide. I want people to know that strength training is perfectly safe for young athletes and actually helps to prevent injury...when monitored by a professional. Telling people that they should wait for their son to grow facial hair before he starts lifting weights is ridiculous. Telling people that resistance training means band work and body weight exercises is also false. I have a masters in exercise science...train high school athletes....and have spent countless hours reading and studying the training programs of some of the best in the business! I think my recommendations have been more then reasonable. I have not once recommended that a 9-year old should be bench pressing. I believe in body weight training as the first step. I don’t think kids who are in elementary or middle school are falling behind if they are not in the weight room. However, I would highly recommend that players get involved in some type of training program the summer before 9th grade. A program that addresses some of my previous recommendations including stability, mobility, and yes...weight (resistance) training.

I would recommend that anyone who reads this thread and feels conflicted to do their homework. There are countless great resources out there that will confirm much of what I have shared.

coachld posted:

I have no problem with agreeing to disagree. As I said, I am not trying to convince you. My problem lies with some statements you have made that are not factual. I don’t think it is fair to the community to let those slide. I want people to know that strength training is perfectly safe for young athletes and actually helps to prevent injury...when monitored by a professional. Telling people that they should wait for their son to grow facial hair before he starts lifting weights is ridiculous. Telling people that resistance training means band work and body weight exercises is also false. I have a masters in exercise science...train high school athletes....and have spent countless hours reading and studying the training programs of some of the best in the business! I think my recommendations have been more then reasonable. I have not once recommended that a 9-year old should be bench pressing. I believe in body weight training as the first step. I don’t think kids who are in elementary or middle school are falling behind if they are not in the weight room. However, I would highly recommend that players get involved in some type of training program the summer before 9th grade. A program that addresses some of my previous recommendations including stability, mobility, and yes...weight (resistance) training.

I would recommend that anyone who reads this thread and feels conflicted to do their homework. There are countless great resources out there that will confirm much of what I have shared.

Okay, you mentioned the first step is body weight training.  I agree. You also mentioned becoming proficient in what they are doing before increasing the weight.  I agree. So can we agree a 9 year old has no business trying to bench press 50+ pounds?

I think the gray area we are in is what about the 11-13 year olds.  I say no lifting, you say lifting with correct supervision.  Is that correct?

Agree. No point in a 9-year old spending time weight training. They should be out playing ball with their friends. 

I think 11-13's can train if working with the right person and progressed appropriately. However, I don't think any 11-13 year old is falling behind if they don't train.

Trust me, I think it is perfectly o.k. to have reservations. I have seen some pretty stupid things happen that take place with young athletes in terms of training. I don't think it would be unreasonable for a parent to observe or ask for copy of high school training program. Lots of sport coaches still running weight training programs, who spend very little time educating themselves regarding current best practices. 

My son and I are fortunate in that we are in the same school together so most of his training takes place in a program that I help write and coach. To be honest, I don't know if I would allow him to take a weight training class in high school if I was not directly involved. He would more then likely train with a coach at one of the local sports performance facilities. Just easier for them because they work with smaller groups and the good ones understand that if they get someone injured....they won't be in business long!