WWBA 17u and LakePoint

+ 1,000 This is one of the prime tenants of this Website! Do your homework, make a plan, work the plan These tournaments are just one aspect of it.

 

It is also very important to carefully pick the team you are on, you don't have to go to a national powerhouse that costs lots of money, get on one that had diligent coaches that have a history of putting kids in college. If a coach has a few extra minutes he will go find those teams just to see what he might have missed, and to talk to the coaches on that team. 

Just curious can we get specifics on P that has a lot of interest. Are you saying 50t scouts were there to see him? Thinking if that's the case he ll prob be draft worthy. 

A couple of years ago my son played in only one EC game at a distant venue, and there were a dozen coaches there to see him (no, he was not 'draft worthy').  Son had spoken to all of them at some point beforehand.  So, they will venture out to see someone.

 

I suspect that coaches/scouts are usually only at games where they know someone beforehand.  If there are 4 games going on simultaneously at LP, and there are no kids they are interested in (that would be hard to imagine), you can bet that (expect for PG scouts), they are going to be somewhere else during those 2-3 hours.

Our team, which didn't fair so well in terms of wins and losses, drew multiple scouts now and then, even at our more out of the way games last week. I think it was  mainly because we had one pitcher that was consistently in the low 90's that lots of people seemed to want to see and because of another guy who was the son of a long time mlb player that had people intrigued.  They were sort of like our "rainmakers" as they call them in law firms. Coach also seemed to work the phones a fair amount. We did get to play two games at Lake Point -- one make up and one schedule. That was way cool.  The atmosphere at Lake Point was definitely more intense. Many more scouts around.  One of those games resulted in a very nice write up or my guy. -- despite the fact that we lost that game.  That was nice. We liked the Lake Point atmosphere so much were tempted to hang around for the playoffs just to experience the intensity of it, but in the end we didn't.  All in all I thought it was a great experience, despite the fact that I don't think enough of our guys ended up making the trip for us to be as successful as possible.  Couldn't get enough front line pitchers to agree to come.  Long and expensive trek from CA.  One coach from a southeast team told  bunch of us who were standing around during a rain delay that he didn't think a team from California realistically stood much of a chance.  He said he had pitchers just lined  up waiting to be called up if needed and wasn't going to run out. Seems like he was right.  Asked a perfect game guy why not put on event of the same scale in our neck of the woods.  He said nobody wants to pay the freight to come and play in CA. I gather they are hoping that the October tourney  they are starting in CA eventually grows into something larger but that may take awhile.

First southeast experience for us. Was really impressed with quality of play!

Actually California teams have done very well at the big tournaments in Georgia.

 

Both ABD Bulldogs (S.Cal) and San Diego Show have won more than one Championship in Georgia. Several others have come close.

Yes Im seeing 3 types of teams here

1. Teams that r more HS quality and they do just ok

2. Teams that r made up of very good selected players in their state, or area-they win many games but just one short usu because of#3

3.  Teams that have ELITE players who live all over the country but r on same team. Already seen players on those that fly in and out to play. Several of these teams here  and one will win the whole thing many r ranked and will be taken in draft next yr.

 

Playball2011,

 

There are teams in your #2 group that are among the best of the Elite.  Orlando Scorpions, East Cobb, San Diego Show, NorCal, just to name a few.  Usually these type teams come from major metropolitan areas and get the best talent from that area.

Agree with PG. My son played on a team from SoCal (SoCal Bombers) that mostly played on the West Coast, and we consistently competed with the BullDogs and the Show.  We lost to the Show at the USA Baseball 16U National Championships. Both are outstanding programs and will compete with the best teams in the country. My son's team could play with anyone and I believe every kid on that team was either drafted or is (was now after the draft) played in college. It was purely a regional team. 

Not sure how many were there specifically to see him....but he's had a lot of contact with major D1's over the summer.  He hit 92 yesterday...and he's a 6'5 / 200lb lefty, so I'm thinking his phone was probably kind of crazy after the performance yesterday.

I just came back from LP.  Prior to going , I was bummed about the turf.. BUT once I was able to see a few games, it was fine.  The mounds are the best turf mounds I have seen.  Son siad it took a few pitches, but then he figured it out.  Also the little machine they clean the mounds with was neat.  

 

As for the recruiters, we almost always knew when someone was coming to see son(s)  they made arragements with the summer team coach prior to the game. 

 

I think some might feel that attending a PG tourney is going to put you on the radar... I guess it could for younger ages that have not been seen.  But from what I have seen with mine, you need to be on the radar before you go to the tourney... Like many have said by contacting coaches, having your summer coach contact them, attending a showcase, etc....

Even if it doesn't "put you on the radar"  it is still a great thing to do.  Great measuring stick.   Some people we talked to said that participation in the WWBA championships have exploded over the last number of years and that consequently  the competition is somewhat watered down from what it once was.  A coach who has been bringing teams there for a long while said that in the old days you could throw a draft pick on a given day and still lose, cause the other team would be throwing one too.   As to the level of competition then vs now -- I can't speak to the truth of that at all, since that  was before my time.   Even if it is true,  I was still quite impressed with the level of play overall.  Our guys were pushed in pretty much every game that they played.  Even though they came up short more times than they would have liked to, they competed really hard.   It was our first time playing against primarily south east and east coast competition.  We had lots of fun. 

Stand corrected, did not mean to leave out select Elite from Large cities.

Definitely this is a good point. A city like Atlanta or Houston can yield better programs due to population and proximity than whole states that are "baseball" states like SC, & NC.

 

Following up on the "put on the radar" comment.  I agree with what has been posted - some say just playing there is enough.  It's not in my opinion.  Just run a little simple math - there are 304 teams at the tourney this week.  My son is there on one of them.  If a team averages maybe 17 or 18 kids per roster (some are well into the 20's, and I'm sure some are smaller) that's 304 times 18.  That's 5472 players.  Even if I'm wrong and the average roster is 15, that's still almost 4600 players. 

 

Hard to get noticed in a sea of over 5000 players if you haven't done some work leading up to the event.  That's why what PG does in terms of scout blogs and player information is so amazing when you really think about it.

There are many players discovered at this tournament.  We even discover players there.

 

We know there are over 500 recruiters and scouts there.  So even at 5,000 that would average 1 decision make for every 10 players.  I know it doesn't always work out like that because there are games with over 100 scouts and recruiters.

 

There is some luck involved.  Right place at the right time!  Having a good showing at the right time.  However, every player that stands out at anytime, will be noted.  We have at least one scout at every game played, start to finish.  The amount of information we compile is much larger than what gets posted on the website.  College coaches and MLB scouts contact us a lot asking what we have on a certain player.

 

If I were young enough to play, I think the neatest part is being in the same tournament with so many future Big League players.  And feeling like I have a chance to be one of them.  Maybe I can impress someone that likes what I can do and the way I play.

 

I wouldn't be truthful if I claimed no one ever gets overlooked.  Because that does happen at times.  Nobody can control what the scouts and college coaches do. I do think  it is a good idea to notify them ahead of time of your schedule.  Unless you happen to be one of those players everyone knows about.

Hey PG Staff:

 

What do you make of the claim that the competition is somewhat -- the coach who said that  didn't say how much --  "watered down"  from previous years, when you could expect to face a potential draft pick many times out?  Like I said I was quite impressed myself.  But this was our first time out. 

I can see why someone might say it is watered down. When we first started this tournament there were about 60 teams and they were among the top 60 teams on the country.  Now it is 300 teams and we would like to think they are among the top 300 teams in the country.  There might be some teams that can't compete, but not many.  

 

So 60 is more concentrated than 300.  Then again when we started doing this there weren't 300 excellent travel teams in the country.  Now days it has exploded and there are hundreds of high level teams.  And they are from all over the country.

 

The very best teams are the same as they always have been... They are loaded with talent.  Every player going on to high level DI or becoming early draft picks. That part hasn't changed, in fact, it has become even more competitive.

 

So, watered down?  Guess it is nationally because of the explosion of travel baseball over the past 10 years.  In regards to a specific event, that is more a matter of opinion.  I know that every year in this tournament there are national power travel programs that don't make it out of their pool.  We have had that happen to teams, several times, that went on to win the Connie Mack World Series.  

I will add some personal experience here. My son has recently (last fall) gotten the opportunity to play for one of the elite organizations. I will agree with the statement about "luck", meaning the right place at the right time. Obviously you have to have the talent or no amount of luck will help. One outing got son invited to play for his current team, but that is another story. He played in the 18U WWBA last week and pitched ONE inning. Had a great outing. From that ONE inning got tons of serious interest and an invite to East Coast Pro. Fast forward to 17U WWBA. Got the start earlier in the week and had another impressive outing at LakePoint in front of 50+ scouts. The 18U outing started the interest and he reached out to his colleges of choice to let them know when and where he would be pitching next. So yes he had to deliver, but thankfully that opportunity had presented itself. My advice is as stated above. Be proactive. I don't think that can be stressed enough. But it sure doesn't hurt to play with some studs that scouts are gonna be there to see. Son's life has certainly changed in the last week.

Personal exp. with  two of my sons .... we play for  an elite program. Team just won the 18 WWBA.... usually ranked in top 20.... all D1 talent.  Our coach does a fantastic job of getting the player information to the college guys prior to the summer season starting. He sends stats , grades, schedule, and he works hard at getting the right fit for the player.

 

So when we go to tourney's he makes sure the recruiters that show interest get to see the player play.  I know this is not this way on every team, but try to find a team that does this.  I have met a lot of recruiters from the levels other than D1 and there are some great opportunities for players.

 

Sometimes I think parents are blinded by the D1 lights.....  if you have the grades , contact some D2, NAIA schools.... JUCO schools....I see alot of these guys at the PG events.  Keep in mind, there are what 35 on a D1 roster, if you are a basebll first guy, do you want to be number 25 on that D1 roster or playing on the D2 team

During the WWBA 18U my 2015 son pitched at one of the high school venues for the earliest game time that day. There were either scouts at the game or they read the blogs because he heard from a D1 and a D3 that he had not heard from before. Both are schools he would be interested in for both baseball and academics. They really are watching even though you think they are not. 

 

As for Lake Point- awesome and will only continue to get better and better. It is 42 miles from our door and worth the drive. The turf does smell funny- like clean laundry with a touch of plastic, instead of dirt. I was looking for the Proctor and Gamble sponsorship sign- lol. The night lighting is stellar. The fields have no dark spots. Son said ball hops higher on the first bounce, but then more true. 

 

I did chuckle to myself that I was glad the baseball fields didn't have a straight view to the beach volleyball women. Let the soccer boys get distracted instead. 

 

Oh, and I loved the 'sign-in' board where you walk in. Clever idea!

 

Thanks PG! It is going to be a real sports gem to have in GA when all is built.

While I am one to preach "have a plan and work the plan" ad nauseam, being at the right place at the right time can make a big difference. The blogs that PG writes up are a help and something that I still read, particularly now that they are on twitter. In fact my son is at a college that he had no knowledge of or had contacted prior to the Stanford camp where they saw him. They continued to follow him at the PG World Championships and Arizona Fall Classic and he had no idea until he did not commit in November, so there is that element of chance which is why you need to be on a quality team and go to some of these events. I repeat that "quality" does not necessarily mean expensive.   

I notice that there are some blogs missing.  And the amount of missing, gets larger each day.  Will those blogs for the missing games be posted soon?  If not, why not? 

We played yesterday...great place....I was thinking that the field smelled like a giant basketball!!  Turf shoes did not work as well as rubber cleats as we had a few that tripped on their way out of the batters box.   Loved that you could get a Chick Fil-A sandwich and we were provided ice water for our players during the game.  LOTS of scouts in attendance at all venues.  Pleased with our overall experience.

russinftworth,

 

Not trying to make any excuses.  We are way behind on the blogs.  The actual blogs are entered from our office in Cedar Rapids, IA.  It is done that way for various good reasons.  The bloggers take info directly entered in the database and write/post the blogs.

 

A week ago Monday we lost our facility due to massive flooding.  Computers were shut down and we worked off of back up.  We have since relocated to temporary offices and are still trying to get the necessary equipment and set up normal operations.  We are getting close, but this has caused some serious issues keeping up to date with things.

 

I understand that none of this should be an excuse.  But it is true!  In time all blogs will be posted. I do apologize!

you don't really believe the bolded do you? i don't have a horse in the race for this conversation - I would hope the statement was said kind of tounge in cheek but i am sure it was not.

 

The Canes are big national program, they bring lots of teams at several ages to many weekends...of course they get preferential treatment. I am sure they are not alone. I don't even have a problem with that - but lets not act like this would be a random act - that seems silly to me.

Yesterday I asked about a minor issue with my son's profile and was very impressed with how quickly it was addressed.  Given the challenges your office is facing, I'm doubly impressed.  Thanks again!

How is Lakepoint scheduled? Just got back from 17u. If u look at schedule talented team called Evoshield Cane  17u played 4 of 7 pool games there. Now this is an elite team w 22 of 24 on roster already committed to D1 schools. 

Sure this is no coincidence. Guess it's easier for pro scouts to see them there than track them all over town. I can see how some people r upset for not getting one game there when this team got 4 plus the playoff games will be there too, so more chances to get seen. 

First day at Lakepoint I personally saw 100 scouts, college/pro-I call them all scouts.

at outside games at HS I would see approx 5-7

When we arrived early they may be watching specific player on diff team and almost always some would leave and a few new ones would be at our games. 

Don't expect to be "discovered" if you haven't been seen somewhere else before and have not talked w school/recruiter. Slim chance it's happening. hope it does for some. 

Best bet if your a pitcher.

What is gained by watching 22 committed players? Maybe a player on the opposing team gets a little exposure?

Can someone give an opinion on how a player would get a chance to get a look if he is not a pitcher, possibly a catcher or driving balls to the fence? Routine plays, "automatics" do not stand out. Boys may play several games before they are even involved in a defensive play. Many mental errors still at this age, and physical errors are part of the game.

Then, you should "let the coaches/scouts do their job" was mentioned on another thread. If you promote yourself to a coach/program through direct contact/email does that help or hurt?

Have heard so many "differing" thoughts on the entire process. How does a young man know which direction to choose or what is accurate? Never mind the parent who should remain in the shadows?

What if The parents have only one college type athlete, or only one kid. The your learning curve is OJT. Lots of mistakes from lack of experience, too mich kool-aide.

Every kid cannot be on a top 20 travel team/program. Many teams have 2016, 2017 on the rosters. Most travel programs promote themselves as developmental, exposure at bigger tournies, etc.......but there were 305 teams at 17u. 1/2 probably played under 500 ball, or worse.

 

Some of the comments I personally have overheard this particular summer. Comments were just while eaves dropping

"that kid is going to be good when he fills out"

"I am just here to look at one kid"

"we will keep an eye on him"

"let's see where he is next year"

"I have seen this kid before, do you know if he is hurt"

"I saw him last xxxxxx his velo is down"

"I like his body, delivery, hands, etc but let's see what happens by next summer"

"I am watching a kid that expressed interest in us and has the academics that we like" (that was from an Ivy League coach/scout)

"I was watching this team warm up and how nonchalant the boys are warming up"

 

Hind sight is 20/20, to be forewarned is to be forearmed, do not trust your fate to chance..........

 

 

Everyone does not look the same making a routine play. Everyone does not look the same swinging the bat or throwing the baseball or running the bases.  Everyone doesn't look the same when they walk into the park. every player does not act or play the same way.  Scouts know what they are looking for!

 

Also, it could be that a scout went to a certain game to see one player.  But they are not blind and there are always more than one player on the field.  I suppose it is possible for a good prospect to play 6 or 7 games an no one notices him.  It just isn't very likely.

 

There are things that create quick interest.  Pitchers velocity, long home runs, very fast H-1 times or pop times.  But our job is to try to evaluate every single player.  For the most part we have a different person evaluating a player in every game.  We are looking for more than home runs and great arms.

 

Not on a power team?  Wouldn't you know that ahead of time?  And if not on one of those type teams, guess what, there will be at least one or two in your pool. The next best thing to being on one of those teams is to play against them.  Show what you got, play the game, if you're good enough someone will notice. Don't worry about why the scouts are there.  Everyone knows that certain players and certain teams will draw more scouts and college coaches. If anyone didn't know that, I'm telling you now, that is the way it is and it isn't going to change.

 

There is never a guarantee that a player can show up anywhere and get people excited about him.  The biggest problem is when others don't see things the same way as mom and dad... Mom and dad get upset! There has to be a reason.  Son is getting slighted... All he got was routine plays... Scouts weren't paying attention to him... And a hundred other excuses.

 

Sorry, but I get real tired of this routine.

From what I have seen, recruiters go with a list players they want to see. They also recruit based on need.  I cannot strss how important it is to do your home work.  Get out a map draw a circle on it... how far are you really willing to move your son from home?  How many schools are in that circle? Contact every one of them.... be honest with yourself about the players true projection to the college level.   Being  stud in high school does not always mean you will be a stud in college.  Visit schools on your own, go to all levels, D1, D2, D3, NAIA and JUCO.  Look at their rosters, how many on the roster are from the state the school is in... How many are from out of state.  Look at tuition costs... Ther is a lot more to this than going to a PG tourney and expecting to be "discovered".  I think some of this comes from the parents.... Beleive me it's a good feeling when a college calls, send personal emails, comes to HS games, travel games... etc... but if that is not happening to your player chances are they are not being recruited for some reason.  Find out what that reason is .  get a true eval from a respected baseball coach, scout in your area. And most of all make sure this is something your players wants to do in college.  Many times I have seen HS players get cught up in the recruiting process, only to find out after the freshamn year that it's alot of work... I mean your not expecting baseball money to pay for school are you?  Recruiters know wha they are looking for, one kid can get a fat pitch and hit it a mile, and the other kid strikes out swinging.  But the kid that struck out may be what they are looking for.

Just got home from WWBA 17U and went to check to see if the blogs were posted and was disappointed to find out they are not free anymore.  I have to play to see the blogs that I had been seeing all week for free.

Not sure what that is all about.  I will check into it tomorrow. To be honest, I thought they were free, also.  Could be a tech issue, we had to relocate our offices due to our building being flooded.  It has created some computer and phone issues.

These threads (about the new facility) have been the rage this summer.  This is a new facility and it appears a few kinks are still being worked out.  I remember when Jacobs Field opened in Cleveland in 1993.  It took awhile ( a year) before they got it rolling on all cylinders.  Same for the new Yankee stadium and any other new facility that opens.

 

I think the courteous thing to do is send concerns to PG in private (like we've asked several times before) or send concerns here to PGStaff (in PM) or to his business e-mail address which he has posted.  PG is a parent and most likely our MAIN EXPERT contributor here.  He has earned the benefit of the doubt.  Please, lets not kill the golden goose.  We almost ran PG off this website a few years ago and it took all of our collective powers to get him back.  He is a patient and sensitive man but I am sure it is not unlimited. 

 

I'll ask again to please try and keep all that in mind.  Thanks.

No one is blaming or trying to run off PG. I was just looking at championship schedule and noticed one team, maybe there were others who got to play majority of there pool games at Lakepoint when others did not get one game there. Sure when all fields r up and running every team will get one chance but I'm sure a few Elite ones will still play many pool games there. Just pointing it out, now I know how it works, and am fine with it. Just don't try and say it's all done randomly. 

Another thing I noticed on first day was scouts were not up in tower. They were all walking quickly from field to field. Wonder if they ll use it more in future. Personal pref I guess.

PG, all, thanks for those replies!!

Accurate, believeable, objective information is hard to gather. We have little basis of comparison. Any opinion offered may be better information than what some of us have. Picking others brains that have already successfully gotten past HS baseball is a privilege, so thanks for sharing. Some basis of understanding has to come from somewhere for the player and his family. Other than playing as well as you can, and putting your work in before and between games there is not much information around about the other parts of the process. I think we all tell our kids the general stuff like "hustle", "you never know who is watching", "go all out", "keep your grades up", "be a leader out there" Maybe we privately hope for a "top 10 play" while the 50 coaches are there to watch the other team that will compliment the other intangibles. In absence of that it would be great if there were a resource where a player could learn the less obviou.........." come to the park in full uniform", "show your arm off during warm up by doing........" "go ahead and steal, if you are out is not as important as showing your speed, guts, or baseball IQ." "in the game, the last out at 3rd is not playing the game", "hit gap to gap", "hopefully some one saw those two line shots to CF and saw a moment of greatness" People have experience that is different than our own. What works for one will not work for all. Showing your speed only works for those who have that to show, but seems to be a more obvious tool to even the average observer. How does an above average arm stand out? What is noticeable about an AB that ends in a strike out? How does 4 innings of lights out pitching compare to the next 5th inning (still should be winning or tied and still pitching well) of 5 team errors and a loss? I guess we do not know what we are looking for, or at, is part of our problem but we are curious about what is being looked for or at

Thanks again for sharing!!!!

 

Quote by Fanof22

"I guess we do not know what we are looking for, or at, is part of our problem but we are curious about what is being looked for or at".

"Some basis of understanding has to come from somewhere for the player and his family".

I see that you recently just joined the HSBBW. f you take some time and go through this site, or begin to follow, you will truly get an idea of what it is all about and how to go about it.

 

Quote by playball2011

"Another thing I noticed on the first day was scouts were not up in the tower."

 

I don't think that is how its done.    Do you think that a scout or a coach can gun a pitcher or an outfield from the tower?  I suggest that you and others might want to familiarize yourself with how scouts go about doing their job. It might take a lot of stress off, been there and done it.

JMO

I got your point the first time you posted it (about the team with 4 games) and now you have "pointed it out" it again.  That point was made in other threads and it keeps getting piled on.  If you have an issue, why not send PG a pm and express your concerns that way? 

Fanof22,

 

There is no one answer to all of your questions, but colleges have different needs year to year depending on their rosters. The only constant is that they are all looking for pitching. "Lights out pitching" to a Dad/Mom may be completely different to a college coach, they are looking at velo, secondary pitches, size, projectability, in summary "tools" results sometimes don't matter.I will give you an example of this, my son (plays D3 ball) had a teammate (pitcher) who did not have a great year numbers wise or results (W/L), but went to a MLB work out and hit 97. He was signed shortly after the workout. Did he pitch "lights out" ? Hardly. 

 

Do a google look up on how tools are measured by major league scouts and that will give you an idea how they are ranked, and what they are looking for. Second, they do not make decisions typically after one game unless the kid has the tools that are obviously superior. 

 

You will hear this a lot here, "Have a plan and work the plan". Going to these events and expecting random selection to happen is a mistake. All of the work has to be done months before you are at one of these events, this includes working up a list of target schools (that fit your son's academic and athletic profile) Sending one to the University of South Carolina when you have no hope of ever playing there is wasting your and the coaches time. Get an independent coach or scout you trust to rate where HE thinks your son can play at, not mom or dad. Set up a list of those schools and months before send them a profile sheet with a video link. (your son does this with your help) I helped my son make up a profile that had all of his information, as well as any baseball accolades. He was communicating with coaches long before he showed up at a tournament. Once the schedule was out he emailed all of his coaches when he would be playing and game he would be pitching in. I can tell you some coaches showed up to see him and others did not. 

 

This is a marathon not a sprint the recruiting cycle is over a year or more. (for mortals like my son and likely yours) 

 

PGStaff has been very gracious answering so many questions, but stuff like this really has to be answered by some of the members here who have been through this cycle, and we stick around as pay back for those who helped us.

 

You really should look through all of the non bulletin board stuff here and this will help you a lot.

 

If you "dialog" me with your email address I will send you what my son's profile looked like at the time to give you an idea on how to put one together.

 

Good luck, it is very stressful journey.  

Been lurking for years, since son announced "I am making the HS team" in 6th grade.....which evolved to "I can make the varsity HS as a freshman"
He accomplished make the JV as a fresh, get pulled up to varsity in a 3000+/-  school.
He plays up one or 2 age brackets and pitches bery successfully at that level.
He dominates t hitting if he plays his age, but prefers to stay above his age and learn to hit, umderstand hit than to move down and be the big fish in the little pond.
He has read every blog, website, this forum and a few others too. He understands the edge can come from anywhere. I understand..........I have very little I can now offer him as far as physical baseball......except I can help foster learning the businesss and strive to be the best employee every day.

BOF...+1

We must have been on the same page trying to understand Fanof22's post.

Fanof22,

Telling us about your sons accomplishments really doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. I am sure he is a very good player. What you need to help him with is understanding how his level of talent will help to determine how this will translate into finding the right college fit for him.