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The old Yankee core gets another year older. It was kind of symbolic and sad to see Mariano out there pitching with nothing on the line, just kind of out there.

The Yankees are a team in flux with multiple free agents, several of whom are declining or in their late thirties (Jeter, Petitte, Rivera) that are Yankee icons.

Posada can't throw anyone out and is definitely declining defensively with increasing numbers of passed balls this year.

A Rod is now a 30 homer guy who bats .280, certainly massively overpaid.

Joba Chamberlain still can't seem to find his way to consistant performance and doesn't look like a worthy successor to Rivera.

Girardi's status unclear at this point.

Best player is certainly Cano now and while Granderson and Gardner are good players, they are not great stars that you build a team around, although truthfully I do think they at least play with great energy. Same for Swisher.

Berkman is not half the player he once was and may not be resigned.

Sabathia's a horse, Hughes is a fine young pitcher, and Kerry Wood was a good pickup in relief but the reat of the staff isn't that impressive--except the ageless Mariano of course.

I suppose the Yankees will be able to fix some of the problems by throwing money at them, but teams with too many mercenaries often are a dis appointment.

So what do the Yankees do when the crop of free agents may not help them that much, outside of Lee if they can get him.
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The bigger question is what will the Yankees do now that George Steinbrenner is gone?

In the recent past the Yanks have gone and bought themselves talent. Will the leadership still be willing to pay our some of the ridiculous salaries that are a Yankee trademark or will they let some of the payroll constrict to a more realistic level?

There will be a lot of hard questions for the Yankees over the next few years. Jeter is still among the best but Rivera and Pettite will not be worth much. I just can't see the Yankees letting Jeter or Rivera going though, they are as much a part of the Yankees as any of the greats were and seeing them in another team's uniform seems as wrong as seeing Babe Ruth in a Boston Brave's uniform.
1- Fire Cashman for building this team and hanging on to the early-late 90s too long. Jeter old, Arod lost a few steps, signing stiffs like Berkman when another stiff Nick Johnson went down.

2 - fire Girardi who micromanages to death, lives and dies by useless data instead of managing with his gut and baseball sense. He was very lucky they won last year and the last two of three years, he shows why he's a pathetic manager.

3 - Cashman and Girardi ruined Chamberlain by not knowing how to handle a 100mph fireballer who went to mopup role topping out at 94-95 and babying Phil Hughes by making him an early season sucess and late season bust by screwing with his innings instead of making him a pitcher.

Nolan Ryan got it right by scrapping the pitch count and making real pitchers agsin throughout the Texas system.

Cashman and Girardi need a kick in the azz out the door and it can't happen soon enough.
Last edited by zombywoof
Zombywoof,

Who would you like to see come in as manager and general manager?

Unfortunately a hard decision needs to be made soon with Jeter, not about whether he stays on the team, but is he willing to move to a different position so a young SS with more range can take over. Notice the Rangers didn't win until they did that very thing with Young to get Andrus into the lineup. Of course two problems exist with this. One, I don't think the Yankees have any really special shortstops in their system and two, can Jeter still hit enough to be a regular outfielder. Second base would have been a good place to move him, but the Yankee's best player occupies 2nd.
quote:
Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
If the Yankees are smart, they will figure out they have to start rebuilting the team now...tearing down a few old established pieces and working in new pieces over a few years. They have a lot of small problems now that will be big problems soon. If they don't start a 3 year fix it program now, hello 80s all over again.


That's exactly what the Yankees have to do. They still have enough pieces in place to stay on top but they definitely need to get younger in key spots..Especially at C & SS. Starting pitching needs to be sured up but since there's nothing in the minors, going after Lee is the answer.

They also need to change managing philosophy and get someone in that knows how to run a game and get these players to work to their strengths. How a player like Brett Gardner looks at pitch after pitch go down the middle and not know how to lay down a drag bunt or a sac bunt is inexcusable. He runs like a deer but is a weak-hitting outfielder who needs to work to get on base.
Boston may be retooling also to some extent this coming year although much of their problems were injuries which will be healed by next season. Could be a lot of competition for the good free agents with the Angels also in the mix. May not be enough out there to rebuild in one year. That's why a farm system is so important. All the pennants of the last 14 years for the Yankees still relied on the homegrown core of Jeter, Posada, Rivera, and Petitte. The only way to do that again is to move some their best prospects up and see what they can do, mixing them in with Cano, Hughes and Texiera. I won't even mention the contract albatross around their neck at third base.
quote:
The only way to do that again is to move some their best prospects up and see what they can do, mixing them in with Cano, Hughes and Texiera. I won't even mention the contract albatross around their neck at third base.


Yankees brought up their top prospects and they were useless. The only player worth looking at next year is Jesus Montero, the catcher. The rest of them, forget it, they're garbage. Yanks haven't had a number one pick in over 20 years. The reason why they have a core 4 is because Steinbrenner got booted from the league for 3 yrs from the Howie Spira/Dave Winfield mess and were pathetic during the Stump Merrill era and the reward for that was early picks. All the years of winning has depleted that but that's the price you pay for being a playoff team 15 of 16 years with the same group.

Yankees have to draft smarter than everybody else. They have to get those players down in the draft to be successful so they gotta do their homework and hope they pan out.Anybody pick a Strasburg or Price when you got the no.1

I wanted the Yankees to get Trout, Kalish and Porcello in the draft but they never draft high enough to get these players.
Last edited by zombywoof
Not sure why the Yanks would rebuild when they can just buy the best FA each year...how about sign Lee to pitch with his buddy CC at the top of the staff and sign Werth to play CF....move Granderson to LF...split Posada/ARod at DH to give them breaks from C/3B and I think they'll be just fine next year.

Not sure where they will find a Elvis Andrus type SS unless they have one buried deep in the minors at this point....do what you do best, but the best you can get and win with those guys!
quote:
Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
Buying talent has got them exactly what they now have...a team full of older guys with big contracts and no farm system.


I'm not trying to be a jerk, but it also got them a WS last year and to the ALCS this year....no other team can match that over the past 2 years.

For the record, I am not a Yanks fan and pulled hard for the Rangers all post-season.
quote:
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but it also got them a WS last year and to the ALCS this year....no other team can match that over the past 2 years.

For the record, I am not a Yanks fan and pulled hard for the Rangers all post-season


You're right. And also the Yankees have been in the playoffs the last 15 of 16 years with 5 world championships and 7 A.L Pennants.

While not getting to the worls series is unacceptable, when you take a step back and take the body of work over time, the Yankees have been a very succcessful francghise.
My point is there's no free lunch. Looking BACK, I agree with what they achieved. Looking FORWARD, you look at their roster/payroll/age and you see the price they paid to get there. They have some real work to do or they have big trouble in front of them. NY's team core is old...Rivera 41, Posada 40, Jeter 37, Rodriguez 36 and even yankee fans admit they don't have much in the farm system. $84m tied up in 4 guys. Can't aford to play them, can't aford not to play them and they have no trade value. Tough spot all great teams come to when their stars get old.

Can they buy youth? They never have before. If they can, can they sit Posada (probably), can they sit Jeter (no), can they sit Rodriguez (no). They have some real tough decisions to make.
Last edited by Tx-Husker
quote:
Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
My point is there's no free lunch. Looking BACK, I agree with what they achieved. Looking FORWARD, you look at their roster/payroll/age and you see the price they paid to get there. They have some real work to do or they have big trouble in front of them. NY's team core is old...Rivera 41, Posada 40, Jeter 37, Rodriguez 36 and even yankee fans admit they don't have much in the farm system. $84m tied up in 4 guys. Can't aford to play them, can't aford not to play them and they have no trade value. Tough spot all great teams come to when their stars get old.

Can they buy youth? They never have before. If they can, can they sit Posada (probably), can they sit Jeter (no), can they sit Rodriguez (no). They have some real tough decisions to make.


It's a good thought, I guess I don't see why you'd want to sit ARod (top 2-3 3B in the league easy) Rivera (still the man) Jeter (diminishing at SS but still a + hitter for the position) Posada is the tough one here and I'd think you'd start to see him start to see some reduced time.

They'll keep "buying" players and ****ing everyoen off, but hey it's their situation and it works.
I agree with bsballfan that ARod while not what he was a few seasons ago is still a very good player. The money on him is already spent, so you keep playing him. You ride Mariano to the very end as he still shows no sign of decline. The greater problem is what to do about the other two guys. Jeter can probably play short one more year or maybe about 130 games there for a couple, but its probably time to drop him in the lineup except during times he's hot. Posada probably should DH half the time while taking a good look at the Montero kid. While the Yankees never get the very top picks, there are very good draft choices often available who fall to lower slots due to signability. These are the guys the Yankees need to draft and sign with large offers. Tampa Bay has great players because they had the very top draft choices multiple times. The Yankees because of expectations have to approach things differently. I still feel free agents alone is often not the best way. You still have to develope a farm system that at least provides some tradeable pieces and an occasional player. Outside of Cano, the Yankees have developed no regular position star players since Jeter and Posada.
dswann,

In the real world it's not as easy as all that. They still owe ARod a gazillion dollars and truthfully who are you going to replace him with that can produce 100 RBI's. I'm not a fan of him but you have to be realistic. Chamberlain is still cheap so you probably keep him and see if he still developes or use him in a trade. Just dropping Jeter would be a tremendous public relations hit and there's got to be some thought put into how to handle the situation. You can't just go buy every free agent out there. Some such as Mauer aren't that interested, some are on the downward trend themselves and you pay for the name, some are not the right positions, some you can get by massive longterm contracts which tie you up worse than you are now, and sometimes there's reason to wait til next year when a better individual or a better crop comes along. This is not as simple as it seems. You've got to have a plan "B" and "C" in case you don't get Lee or Crawford or other guys high on your list. Sometimes it doesn't make sense to pursue the lower guys who are no better than what you have, only a little younger.
Unfortunately most teams don't have the option of even trying to rebuild every year via free agency like the Yankees with there almost unlimited resources. Most teams like Seattle take years to rebuild through draft picks and if they have an owner like Drayton McLain of the Astros who for a couple of years running did not sign any of his top picks because he wouldn't go over slot, it takes even longer. Often after the first round and the supplimental picks the draft is a real **** shoot although there are middle and lower round guys that of course sometimes become stars. You just won't build a great team via the draft if you don't make your highest picks count.

Each team gets one pick per round in reverse order of their record for the previous season. There is no direct trading of draft picks but what happens is that if you lose players to free agency that you offered arbitration to, and these guys are rated as type "A" free agents you can gain additional picks from the team that acquires your free agent in the supplemental round which is at the end of the first round. I believe type "B" free agents lost bring you a later extra pick. Teams must take care that the player is truly signable and do their homework. Some teams are better at this then others. Teams that rarely get the highest picks usually do have to have a very able scouting department and leadership. One trouble with the Yankees in the past was that George Steinbrenner would trade off all their good minor leaguers to get some player who had a name but was in decline like Sheffield and Mondesi.
quote:
Originally posted by Three Bagger:
dswann,

In the real world it's not as easy as all that. They still owe ARod a gazillion dollars and truthfully who are you going to replace him with that can produce 100 RBI's. I'm not a fan of him but you have to be realistic. Chamberlain is still cheap so you probably keep him and see if he still developes or use him in a trade. Just dropping Jeter would be a tremendous public relations hit and there's got to be some thought put into how to handle the situation. You can't just go buy every free agent out there. Some such as Mauer aren't that interested, some are on the downward trend themselves and you pay for the name, some are not the right positions, some you can get by massive longterm contracts which tie you up worse than you are now, and sometimes there's reason to wait til next year when a better individual or a better crop comes along. This is not as simple as it seems. You've got to have a plan "B" and "C" in case you don't get Lee or Crawford or other guys high on your list. Sometimes it doesn't make sense to pursue the lower guys who are no better than what you have, only a little younger.


They've suckled from the FA teat way too long to stop now. They have the resources they'll maintain the course. Add and delete to the roster as mgmnt sees fit. Business as usual.
Forget about Jeter and the Yankees dumping him. Jeter is heir to being the "Face of the Yankees" for the next 30-40 years. Getting rid of Jeter will be a bad PR move and something will be done so that he retires a Yankee and avoid a PR disaster. In this sense, the other "core" Yankees are expendable including Moe Rivera. Not that the Yanks should kick Rivera aside because that wouldn't go over well either but he's not the one to carry the Yankee brand for the next 40 years. Jeter will basically be the next Joe DiMaggio.

In Pettitte's and Posada's situation, that will be easier because Pettitte may retire, although he was was their best post season pitcher and can still get it done but he might not want to do this anymore. That's yet to be determined. Posada will just start getting less time behind the plate because he can't do it no more back there. He was never a great catcher to begin with and age has made him a huge liability but his bat has kept him in the game, but even that has been declning.
The Yankees have a big problem with Jeter. He's old for a shortstop and losing it offensively and defensively. But, they have to resign him and put him out there until he falls on his face. The issue will be how much the Yankees offer and Jeter's willingness to accept the offer. The Yankees shouldn't offer more than two years.

I don't think Jeter or the Yankees want to see him in another uniform even if it would be the best move for the Yankees. Then again Mays, Aaron and Ruth didn't finish with their teams. So anything is possible.
RJM, Good point about those other icons not finishing with their teams. I feel Jeter will play shortstop most of the time at least in 2011 but something will have to be done soon. Andrus was making plays all over the infield, making his pitching staff better, while hit after hit went through the hole on the Yankees left side. The Yankees pitching might substantially look better with a young glove man at shortstop.

Having said that I think the Yankees more than any other club have had stars that started and finished as Yankees:
Lou Gehrig- HOF-1st base Don Mattingly-1st base
Tony Lazzeri- HOF-2nd base
Frankie Crosetti-SS Phil Rizzuto-HOF-SS
Bill Dickey-HOF-catcher
Red Rolfe-Third Base
Joe Dimaggio -HOF- CF Earl Combs-HOF- CF Mickey Mantle- HOF-CF Bernie Williams-CF
Whitey Ford--HOF-pitcher

Might have forgotten someone else.
It is really hard for me to read this thread, because my eyes "well up in tears". Wink It is just so very sad when the Yankees don't win the World Series every year. Panic sets in. The Yankees need to figure it out just like everybody else. They shouldn't panic because they have talent. They should focus on making better financial decisions, and be wiser with their money. Hard decisions will have to be made with their aging players. These decisions are not going to be popular. For these aging players, I would suggest something similiar to what the Red Sox did with Jason Varitek (the Captain). Sign him to a one year deal with a one way option for a second year. In this manner the Yankees or the player can opt into the second year. This saves face for the player and organization. It also provides value, and does not over extend or over pay for the player.
Fenway,

My eyes tear up as well, but from laughing so hard. The Yankees deserve to wallow around in every bit of drama they inspire in their fans (well at least the unreasonable ones) and in the New York tabloids. Meanwhile, isn't it just plain cool that we get the Giants and Rangers??!!

Next we'll get a story that TV ratings are down as the self-absorbed Yankee fans aren't watching, so perhaps MLB will adopt a new rule where all other teams simply play for the right to play the Yankees in the Series-after all, that's how they see it in New York anyway.

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