You never know who’s watching

Will Smith “FU!!!”

Crackling voice over intercom ”Sir, this is a Wendy’s drive thru.”

I’m good with it. On both sides. Batters can pimp it all they want, pitchers can tell hitters to F off. The game needs more emotion 

Sorry I missed all that. 

The guy walked off the field yelling FU at the Vanderbilt bench. It’s inappropriate. Apparently the umpires thought so. They warned him. It’s a four game suspension for getting tossed. Peterson and Perez said it was inappropriate. 

However, it did lead to a funny story. Ravech asked Peterson if he ever barked at a hitter. Peterson said in college he struck on Geoff Jenkins (Brewers) of USC on change ups. Jenkins walked away from the plate yelling at Petersen, “Challenge me.” Petersen yelled back, “I challenge  you to hit a change,”

As the dad of a very “competitive” and sometimes fiery pitcher, I would like to know the whole story. I have personally witnessed some pretty rude and inflammatory comments coming from the dugout and the stands directed at pitchers.  If he was provoked, I’m good with it, maybe a different choice of words. His emotions really didn’t seem real effect his pitching ability.  

All we have seen is the video of him. Most times there are two sides to the story. We will probably never know the other side??

From what you could see on the TV broadcast of the game it appeared that Smith was the original antagonist. Early in the game he was flashing 3 Fingers and staring down the Vandy dugout after striking out hitters.  That is douche bag behavior and I’m sure it drew some spicy comments from the Vandy dugout. There is no place in the game for that kind of emotion. Personally I’m shocked that the Louisville coaches tolerate behavior like that from any of their players. So if you are looking for someone to blame you can start right there. Baseball usually has a way of rewarding coaches, teams, and players that play the game the right way and sure enough Vanderbilt came back and won. 

Was anybody at the game last night?   I watched the broadcast but had the volume off....can't listen to those three.  I'd like to know what really happened, not what they showed on TV.

Adbono

I really don't see any difference in holding up 3 fingers, and batters that make all kinda sign language when they hit a double off a pitcher. 

Heck, I like all the emotion on the field, from hitters, fielders, pitchers, coaches, everyone. That particular language - No. 

Its a changing game in that sense, and I would bet that gets as much or more media coverage and views than the hit that tied the game. Is it good for the Game, I don't know, but it is good for viewership

wareagle posted:

Adbono

I really don't see any difference in holding up 3 fingers, and batters that make all kinda sign language when they hit a double off a pitcher. 

Heck, I like all the emotion on the field, from hitters, fielders, pitchers, coaches, everyone. That particular language - No. 

Its a changing game in that sense, and I would bet that gets as much or more media coverage and views than the hit that tied the game. Is it good for the Game, I don't know, but it is good for viewership

Yeah I’m gonna have to disagree with all of that.  IMO that kind of “look at me” behavior isn’t good in any respect. If I see a kid act like that on the field I’m putting a line thru his name. 

Love the response from Vandy: speak where it counts on the field.

And given the chance to reciprocate with trashy behavior of their own, they took the high road:

But Vanderbilt had the last word. The Commodores could feel the energy shift in the dugout. And when it was over, Infante said he didn't say a word to Smith.

"I'd rather not speak in those kind of terms," Infante said. "Things work out the way they work out. Sometimes you talk and things happen, and sometimes you don't need to talk and things happen."

Vandy rallies in 9th after pitcher's profane taunts

Adbono

I certainly understand and respect your view.

I choose to see it as showing "passion" rather than "Look at Me".  Again, not the particular language used last night.

I am probably in the minority of fans over 50 that don't mind it. I suspect that there is a big separation on this issue between the "over 50 viewers" and the "under 35" viewers.

I'm not a big believer in the "karma" thing,  Vandy came back and won because they were the better team in that moment ( and probably most moments).  I do believe that kinda of stuff raises the opponents energy level.  And if your gonna do it, you better be ready to back it up. 

I don’t believe it’s karma. I believe it becomes a distraction. Smith taunting Vanderbilt was part of his game plan. As mentioned after the game in the post game interview Vanderbilt mostly ignored him and did what they had to do. Vanderbilt didn’t lose focus.

i have no problem with unplanned emotional reaction.  If a pitcher fist pumps whiffing a hitter to get out of a jam that’s pumped up. But there’s no place in the game for yelling vulgarities across the field. What Smith was doing was taunting. He looked like a horse’s arse. At the next level it will get his big hitting teammate drilled.

As a not so proud member of the over 50 club I’ll just share that that behavior would’ve got a teammate plunked in college ball too.

i wonder if these antics will be considered a 7th tool? 

It was bad.  Infante walked away from the plate, and that kid went off.  I don't believe in karma, but I am glad that he lost.

I'm under 40 years old and thought it was ridiculous. Yes the game could use some more emotion. But emotion doesn't have to be vulgar. It doesn't have to be screaming obscenities to another opponent. Yell for you. Yell for your team. There can be a difference. Many kids watching that and can take it as possibly acceptable. 

I think it took away from what he did on the mound. Too bad.

baseballhs posted:

I think it took away from what he did on the mound. Too bad.

It absolutely did.  The kid pitched a helluva game and instead of being remembered for that what is being talked about is his horrible behavior on the biggest stage in college baseball. 

Glad Vandy came back and won. To strike a guy out in a big spot and get pumped is one thing. To strike out the 9 hitter and say what he did right at him is just an a-hole move. I thought it was great how the whole team came out of the dugout on the go ahead double and started yelling right back at him and I thought the umpire was wrong for shutting it down after letting the LVille kid do his thing the whole game. 

I don't care for sportsmanship if we're being honest, just don't be an a-hole. Two teams shaking hands that clearly don't like each other is just as stupid as telling the last batter in the order to sit down. Impressed with how they responded and even more impressed how Vandy was ready to back their guy up right then and there. If that was a regular season game and not the national semis there probably would have been a fight and justifiably so. That looked to wake up a deflated Vanderbilt team and he picked a bad time to do so. 

These are testosterone filled 20 year olds. Bunch of pansies who get shook seeing some aggressive young men get after it. If Vanderbilt doesn't want to talk, they can back it up on the field (and they did). This is GREAT for the game, and nothing excites me more as a fan of baseball than some good old fashioned hard feelings.

Do the hard feelings need to be expressed in a vulgar manner that can’t be broadcast on TV? Couldn’t he have screamed “yeah” and had the same impact? Btw I’m assuming he said more than “sit down!” which I still don’t think is a good look.

That said, I have no idea what led to his outburst but I don’t think it happened in a vacuum. That batter might not have gotten under his skin but somebody did. Or, does he do that every game? 

It is one of those moments that changes your life.  I didn't know the guy before the other night but he is famous now and not for a good reason.  He took what could have been a great night in his life for his success on the field and turned it into a night that will place him in a category I'm sure he didn't want to be in.  From now on, when you type his name in google, he will be remembered for screaming F You, F You and then turned it up a notch with a different expletive.  He will always be known as that guy, who also took the loss.  I think emotion is a part of sports and competition but what he did has no place in the game.  How did the umpires not eject him?  How did his coach not discipline him or remove him?  I've always thought highly of Louisville's coach but that went out the window also the other night.  His response after the game was just you can't play mad. 

As far as Smith flashing 3 fingers at Vanderbilt's dugout after striking out a batter, I have no problem with that. How many times do you see a batter get a hit and pop up flexing, shooting an arrow or something else that team does. I know some are gonna say the batter isn't doing it to the other dugout so that's ok, so if a pitcher flashes 3 fingers to his own dugout, is that ok?

I don't think he was thinking, look at me. How would he know there was a close up on him. Now that goofy hair was definitely a look at me.

It took away from what he did on the mound. That is a by product of idle time, message boards and the media. The FU should have been a blip on the screen, and most likely had I not watched it live I wouldn't know it happened.

I taught all my pitchers to show no emotion. I felt it showed that the pitcher was in control. So it was a huge surprise to me as I watched my son get out of bases loaded no outs jam, screamed yea so loud I thought his head was gonna explode. If Smith's emotions where half of my sons I could see how he could scream FU to the batter. I just wish he choose different words so people aren't wasting time talking about this.

When I was playing football someone was getting told FU just about every play. 

2019OF posted:

These are testosterone filled 20 year olds. Bunch of pansies who get shook seeing some aggressive young men get after it. If Vanderbilt doesn't want to talk, they can back it up on the field (and they did). This is GREAT for the game, and nothing excites me more as a fan of baseball than some good old fashioned hard feelings.

Has nothing to do with us being pansies. Has everything to do with talking sh#t when you know the other team can't do anything about it. Nobody on Vandy was going to risk getting tossed and suspended in the national semifinals. 

Truthfully, I don't care. Just don't force them to shake hands afterwards and don't reprimand the Vandy dugout after letting the kid do it all game. If he wants to be an a-hole let him be a one, he just better be able to take it right back and deal with looking stupid when the go ahead run scores. 

If Smith had yelled “Sit down!” or similar I don’t believe there would be a discussion about his behavior. The tv commentators would have said he’s fired up. The hitter did step out on him a couple of times.

Football trash talk is different. It’s addressed at players on the field, not someone walking back to a dugout. Fans can’t see it. Besides, to fans  it’s coming out of a faceless helmet. It’s hard for even a camera to pick it up. 

What did you all think of his behavior after the go ahead run came in, when the reliever came off the field and when his team was at bat?  Did they have a camera following him in the line after the game?  I only saw a condensed version of the last couple innings later. 

It was way out of line and it was bush league to boot.   Taunting is not allowed in the game as it should not be.  My kid is s pitcher and I always side with pitchers, but not here.  A guy cannot hold up three fingers at the other team’s Dugout.  Just like a hitter can round the bases on a home run yelling at the pitcher.  Guys can get up and show excitement on a double, and a pitcher can yell and fist pump on a big strikeout.  But, what they kid did went way over the line. 

I've always thought that the most infuriating way to lose a baseball game is when the winning team is completely emotionless and acts like the outcome was never in doubt.

This is GREAT for his career long term. Going 8 strong in a game almost nobody is watching doesn't do much. He's an eceleb and will be followed throughout the minors as a result of that burst of energy.

Follow him in the minors? He’s 6’3” and had great numbers in JuCo ball at Parkland (top quality JuCo program) for two years and wasn’t drafted (18-2, 11K per 9IN, 4:1 K:BB). Five of his former Parkland teammates were drafted this year. He was 6-0 for Louisville when the draft came around his junior year. He wasn’t drafted. Maybe the scouting reports say he’s a head case..

We finally have something worse than the Vandy whistler. 

2019OF posted:

This is GREAT for his career long term. Going 8 strong in a game almost nobody is watching doesn't do much. He's an eceleb and will be followed throughout the minors as a result of that burst of energy.

“Burst of energy?” Really?!? I suppose you refer to diarrhea as a burst of energy too? What he did will not help his career. 

He crossed the line.  No disputing that.  In no way is that conduct good for the game.  He pitched his butt off, but that's all we're going to remember.  Not sure how that is good for him.  Glad my Dores took care of business.  Poetic justice.

He made a great sermon illustration yesterday about how the words we say either build up or tear down.  How we can be remembered for what we say.  But I got to thinking.  What if the outcome was different?  What if he had won the game and struck out Vandy in the 9th?   Would it be the same story or would everyone be saying he backed it up so who cares?  Just wondering.

Putting what the kid did aside, it is amazing to me that he accomplished making Vandy look sympathetic or restrained.  Vandy is the biggest Dbag squad in the SEC.  A large majority of the time it is them acting like that, which isn't really surprising considering they allow and support the whistler.  It is a culture there, albeit swag they probably earned through W's.

I would bet it is a certainty the Louisville kid was catching flak all game.  That flak just didn't get caught on camera.  And, I'm not condoning what he did because you need to keep your composure.  But don't be shocked if there is an other side to the story.

Opus X wrote, “ don’t be shocked if there is another side to the story.”

Couldn’t agree more. There almost certainly is.  Talking sh$t has been part of baseball forever. But as you progress to higher levels of the game you are taught (at least you used to be) not to let it affect you during the course of the game. There is always time to talk afterwards. It is a tried and true phenomenon that the minute you run your mouth too much in the middle of an athletic competition is exactly when someone hands you your ass in a hat. 

PitchingFan posted:

He made a great sermon illustration yesterday about how the words we say either build up or tear down.  How we can be remembered for what we say.  But I got to thinking.  What if the outcome was different?  What if he had won the game and struck out Vandy in the 9th?   Would it be the same story or would everyone be saying he backed it up so who cares?  Just wondering.

PF, I fear that if he had backed it up he would have become somewhat of a cult hero.  There always seems to be that group of people who want to take on the existentialist’s position that morality and mores are just constructs for the sake of their own selfish expressions.  Social media really brings those types out as well.  

In in the end, the tongue is a flame that sets Forests afire. 

He crossed the line.???? It seems today that line moves. Old schoolers like myself are sometimes scoffed at because we talk about the way it was. Well you did not do some of the stuff that goes on today and if you did there were consequences. As far as you never know who is watching? You really do not.  You can only make a first impression once. Is that first impression going to be cursing at your opponent.  Or not hustling. Or throwing equipment. I used to tell my players that all the time. I was talking to a college coach years ago and he relayed a story where he was looking at pitcher. It just so happened that the shortstop had a really good game.  bottom line he received a scholarship. Moral of the story. You never know who is watching!!!!!

I can add to your story.  I was umpiring a great summer game the week before the draft many years ago.  The pitcher for one team and was top 10 in Georgia and the RF was also top 10 as a hitter.  There were 30 pro scouts there to watch that matchup.  The short stop for the RF had an unreal game.  He hit 2 homeruns off the pitcher and made 3 plays up the middle, one on his butt after diving.  He was drafted in 13th round the next week out of nowhere.  You never know where or when either good or bad.  The RF went 0-3 with three K's and was drafted in 30th round.  Fell completely out because of bad play and terrible attitude when it mattered the most.  Threw a fit and threw bat and helmet the third time he struck out.

terrible attitude !!!!!  a kid gets to High school has a terrible attitude. Maybe just maybe coaches parents teachers over the years because of his talent allowed it?