Your opinions about this opinion please......

The way they were used could have something to do with it. Each kid threw in the 4 games during 6 days. 30 pitches at full throttle every other day is usually not recommended. I would rather see one or 2 kids throw 40-50 pitches each and get 3-4 days off in between. Also, with a 15-16 year old, I like a pen to be at least 40 pitches, followed by running, next day long toss followed by running. Did these kids run right after pitching in the game? That is recommended to get the juices flowing, get the lactic acid moving reduces day after soreness. They shouldn't wait a day to run.

30 pitches is hardly a workout but a slow jog immediately after should help and maybe some icing. Soeness after that light an outing usually means you were not prepared to throw full out. Do some long toss etc to get your arms in shape. The fact that you all sre experiencing soreness tells me you were not ready.
If there is pain that is a different story and you should see a sports doctor.

quote:

after pitching, takes advil, the night of pitching, and runs 3 miles the next day after practice and still had a sore arm for a day. Is the coach right? The kids have a week and a half break now, so they should get rested up.

I have several questions about this:
1)Is taking advil or any OTC med good? Last year by son took something similar for soreness and it seemed to mess up his accuracy briefly.

2) Running three miles seems like a lot to me. Our pitchers do about a mile. Long distance running was encouraged BEFORE before the season.
After a game they do a slow jog on the treadmill or exercise bike.

3) Taking off a week and a half? I presume you mean for spring break. Were those 4 games just practice scrimmages or the real thing? It would be odd to take off 10 days to rest right before the real thing begins.

4) Varsity pitchers shouldn't be very sore with the regimen you describe except for perhaps 3-4 days after that 6 day period. 120 game pitches in 6 days is a full plate so early.

My kids spend most of their season with some nearly-continuous soreness (not pain). That's life for most varsity starters. But it's odd to be very sore early on. Be concerned if it doesn't go away quickly during the 10 day rest period.

They do run after their pens, poles and pickups. During games they don't have the opportunity to run, because it is a small school and after pitching they play a field position. However, I will recommend to the coach that they do some running after the game. Thank you all for your help and information.

Depends on where the soreness is. Soreness around the shoulder or elbow would be a sign of trouble and need for rest. Minor soreness in the bisceps or triceps is a common early season problem caused by not being in "mid-season shape" yet. This can be worked through, though soft warmups and long toss will usually suffice. Rest intervals should still be observed for game situation pitching.

quote:

a small school and after pitching they play a field position.

That probably explains the soreness.

It is important that they jog very slowly otherwise you build up lactic acid.
30 pitches shouldn't even build up a sweat if you are in condition and your arm is ready.
If you are ready the 1st part of the season should be a breeze.
The fact that all of you are having an issue suggests you guys aren't ready.

Our standard "pen" is about 45 pitches. We throw this everyday. 30 pitches in a game are much different than those 45 pitches. Your coach is "throwing by committee." We do this as well. There is not enough info here but I wonder if you threw simulated games before you started playing. We do 2 inning games for each pitcher and our 6 varsity pitchers get their 2 innings in every 3 days. Of course, we haven't begun the season yet. We have a trainer on staff and he helps set up our rotations into his office to get their arms ready.

Any opinions of stuff like Advil for soreness and inflamation during the season? Can otc meds mess up accuracy?

I don't like using any meds before sporting events. I have found that while they are used for their 'anti-inflammatory' properties, they also provide some analgesic effects, which I find to be detrimental to performance. There is a masking effect for touch (and pain) receptors which hinders the feedback mechanism, not allowing you to make those minor, sub-conscious corrections.

I have no scientific basis for this other than my own performance drop-offs in college when I would take a bit of Motrin before a match. I also work as a health care provider.

I also don't necessarily 'approve' of any meds after games either, but for different reasons. I don't like the idea of your body becoming dependent on external sources for chemicals, as it will stop producing it's own. Now, if the body is sore, then nothing wrong with boosting it with the occasional Advil or Motrin, but medication on a routine basis is not necessarily the most prudent course.

My son has taken advil before and after a game with no ill effects what so ever. It helps reduce swelling and blood flow.
The one thing I do not recommend is Gravol. Wife gave son some for an upset stomach after he was awake all night. I couldn't figure out what was wrong with him. He in disneyland and didn't know his assignments.

Bobble, I had a few kids taking advil before games and it was definitely masking soemof the pan. One kid kept right on throwing without pain until season end when it was found that his shoulder was a total mess. These were well trained and prepared kids. Stubborn kids who I had guessed were chemical dependent also. The body will loosen up and then let the kid know when things are right or not.JMO

Being a pitcher as of right now, I know what soreness feels like and what pain feels like. There is a significant diference between the two. Pain is a sign that something is wrong. Soreness is going to be there, it come with the territory. Throwing puts alot of stress on places where there shouldnt be any which with use causes soreness. Ice is always a good idea for swelling and running always helps. But as far as being sore from throwing that much everyday I think the kids need to understand the pain-soreness difference. Throwing through soreness is ok and generally helps loosen the muscles and move fluid. If there is continued soreness, a light throwing day should be mixed in every few days to give the arm a chance to catch up. But not throwing for 10+ days would erase any hard work in the previous weeks. Soreness= ok pain= bad

Thank you everyone for your information and help.

I would not recommend ever taking any pain relievers before pitching.

The use of aleve (naproxen sodium) after pitching (game)is recommended by orthos and trainers.
If upset stomach occurs, a daily dosage of glucosimine is helpful. If you don't like any of those, try pineapple.

Kevin11,
I understand your concern and young pitchers probably should not be forced to throw if soreness prevails. It is not uncommon to have soreness the day after pitching.
Son should still light toss during his time off.

Well Thank you all again and the soreness has subsided. He is sending my son and another sophomore pitcher with the jv squad today to get some innings since the varsity has such a long layoff. I just worry since they are so young and I haven't had to deal with my son pitching until the last year and a half. Learning on the fly, you gotta love it.

TPM, how is your son doing? Hopefully I will get to see him pitch when they play WCU.

Coachr how did we get to drug dependant.
As TPM said doctors recommend asprin/advil. Taking one every 5days does not induce dependance. Glucosimine is a great realeaver of soreness. Even my wife uses it when she gets sore from hard work. Pain and soreness are two different things and a player should understand the difference.
The stubborness in a pitcher is a god given trait. Bless the miserable son of a guns.

Naproxen sodium, Aleve or generic. Not aspirin, not ibuprophen.

Agree generally with 8CrashDavis8 as to soreness vs. pain. But there's no way to know which one we're dealing with via a web site discussion.

I will say that masking pain is one thing, preventing inflammation is another. Inflammation can come in a hurry and hang around a lot longer than you'd like. Icing is one mode used to help prevent it. An anti-inflammatory OTC helps, too, and we've used it as a matter of practice after outings to help prevent inflammation and thus, assure that recovery is not delayed.

Question to Grateful: What is your objection to an anti-inflammatory before the outing, as a preventative?

Midlo Dad, Leave this school at once....
Just joking abd you know why. Honestly havent heard to many pitchers getting sore after 30 pitches though, we go through the later winter months trying to get 40 to 50 pitches in at least once or maybe twice a week at 50 to 60 percent. Once we hit February they step it up with the same amount of pitches but go up to 60 to 70 percent. Right now they are throwing 80 percent with 50 pitches. We start scrimages next week and our starters will go 2 innings tops. Their pitches will be limited to 40 in 2. The other thing i always hear is that kids have sore arms. The first thing I ask my son, is your arm sore? He has never really had a sore arm but the big word here is a tired arm. In my opinion this is a huge difference. A tired arm is normal followed by some long toss the next day and back to normal. Sore arm and thats a whole different story. Just would like to know if his arm is truly sore or just tired. Hope he is alright and I'll be following his school this year. Good Luck..

Bobble, I may not have been clear. The kids I am talkng about seemed to always be looking for a way to relieve or enhance. It turned out I was right as the kid wth the messed up shoulder was into plenty of other drugs. He had some trouble with the law during his summer after graduation and he blew a partial scholarship. I am not in favor of any kind of dependency, and if you feel you NEED something before the fact, that could be called dependency.
I have heard about glucosamine and certainly an anti-inflammatory after throwing could only help. Sorry if I sounded like all kids were dependent because they take meds for soreness, thats not where I was going.
You are right that kids need to learn the difference between pain and soreness.

Midlo Dad.....

Taking any kind of medicine to decrease pain and decrease inflammation prior to pitching ultimately masks whatever pain that might be felt under natural circumstances. Masking arm pain while pitching is not a healthy idea.