Yu Darvish

It figures , hope the guy stinks after they pay millions for him

I find it interesting that they didn't pursue Wilson, who has been established in Texas, but are set to throw much more money at Darvish, who has never thrown a pitch in the Major Leagues. It obviously remains to be seen if this is a good decision or not, but just an interesting observation from an outsider looking in.

I bet that puzzled CJ Wilson too... good point JH.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Its puzzling to many, why they are throwing twice the amount the offered CJ Wilson.

It is my understanding they scouted him extensively and like what they see.

Sounds like the biggest factor for the Rangers was while unproven he is only 25 and six years younger than Wilson.

If they get a deal done they likely will move another of the five pitchers.

You can argue that the Blake Beavens(?) trade with Seattle was a miss by Rangers, but all and all Jon Daniels has been pretty spot on so far. With that said this is a big one.

It's not that puzzling on Wilson. Wilson didn't earn the money he was asking for and was not well liked in the locker room either. You notice no one in the clubhouse expressed dissapointment at his leaving....it speaks volumes.

On beavans, how would you consider that a miss? They held him as untouchable forever until they had a chance to get Lee. You don't get a Lee for nothing.

Say what you will about the Rangers, but their front office has proven they know talent and can manage it. The Rangers are soon to be in a better position this year than they were in either of the past two. Daniels and Ryan know what they are doing.

Darvish has a MUCH higher ceiling than Wilson. Wilson also failed time after time on baseball's biggest stage. That is part of the reason NY and Boston did not pursue him too much. Wilson has already had arm problems in the past. All of these things add up. Wilson is NOT a No.1 pitcher, more of a number two and with any decline at all, a three or four. The Angels vastly overpaid for him.

Because CJ Wilson cant win a ballgame when it counts....thats why the rangers didn't want him. Isn't that why they pay him? Because he chokes when it matters the most. Two years in a row hes choked in the WS. He is the first guy in MLB history to not win a game in the ALDS,ALCS,and WS. Think about that for a minute. They know what they are getting out of CJ, and they think they can get much more obviously out of yu.

One other huge factor--Darvish is 25 while Wilson is 31. You all know this is huge in baseball terms. Wilson may actually be starting his decline phase. Also for the last 3 to 4 years Texas has done everything right while the Angels have made one Knuckleheaded trade or signing after another. Kind of coincides with the term of Daniels and Ryan working in tandem. Even the way the Angels are using Trout is not too smart and he was one of the top two prospects in all the minor leagues.

I don't disagree with any of the above. However, Darvish will cost the Rangers more than $100 million when it's all said and done. I understand the aspect of talent pertaining to what they've seen with him, but that's a whole lot of money for a player that has never played at this level. Wilson, despite everything listed above being true, has still had success in the Major Leagues, and is cheaper than Darvish.

I could be wrong, and Darvish could come in and win Cy Young Awards. But skepticism is present to me when there's so much money involved.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
On beavans, how would you consider that a miss? They held him as untouchable forever until they had a chance to get Lee. You don't get a Lee for nothing.

QUOTE]

Personally I don't think it was. Just think it is the only move that others might argue was a miss.

I wholeheartedly agree that the Rangers are in great shape with Daniels and Ryan at the helm.

It's a valid point JH...and I'm sure it was discussed at length. Ultimately it comes down to Ryan's assessment of the two pitchers. You can clearly see what he thinks of both. I'm a believer in Ryan's ability to assess pitchers.

Ryan is trying to create a BRAND in Texas and must spend, market to do so. How many extra fans bought season tickets and or game to watch Wilson pitch?

How many might buy and come to the ballpark to see Darvish pitch?

As am I. He's implemented several aspects of training that have proven to be successful as well. Certainly a huge bright spot for an organization that was left as a disaster by the Hicks/Hart regime. Take my opinions for what they are, a Devil's Advocate sort of approach that probably doesn't hold water because of their experience and scouting resources, and my lack of all of the above.

As a Nationals fan, I was glad the team passed on Wilson. Too old to help the team after the younger pitchers get going in a couple of years. He also has a lot of walks. I think the Angels realy overpaid.

I will be curious ot see how the impact of signing Darvish has on the rest of the league. With the Nationals having Strasburg & Zimmerman having to be resigned in the future, I see the price tag going a little higher today.

Also, I would trust Nolan Ryan's assessment of pitchers over all other owners in the game.

With the Red Sox signing of Dice-K what they didn't get in on the mound productivity was more than offset by the interest and revenue generated in the Japanese market. DOn't forget this are businesses trying to make money.

That aside, how many Cuban or Japanese phenoms have signed for millions and actually provided return on investment on the field commensurate with the money spent?

Forming a major league roster certainly involves risk in the way revenue is allocated for talent. Taking Darvish IS a risk but a highly calculated and intelligent risk in my book. There are not that many number one level pitchers out there and when they are avaiable, they cost mega-money as did Sabathia and Lee. Even if the chance to acquire one while he is at the top of his game occurs, it would require gutting a franchise's minor league system if they even have the level of talent to interest the team trading the ace. This is what makes acquiring King Felix so prohibitive. Darvish has not been worked especially hard in innings pitched although Japanese training methods are quite different so he will have to make an adjustment.

I forgot that Darvish is half Iranian, so we are going to insidiously undermine the Iranian leadership's hatred toward the US and point it in the direction of where it really should be-- towards the New York Yankees as they all become Rangers fans.

You think the buzz is getting big now, wait to see how much it generates if he actually signs in the next 30 days. If he does, the hype and speculation will go through the roof in anticipation leading up to opening day.

quote:

Originally posted by Out in LF:
You think the buzz is getting big now, wait to see how much it generates if he actually signs in the next 30 days. If he does, the hype and speculation will go through the roof in anticipation leading up to opening day.

Yep, just like Dice-K. Look how that worked out long term.

To all the people that were complaining about High School Draftees getting paid too much money out of high school....the real question is this, would you pay 100 million for a unknown free agent in a forein market, or would you pay an 18 year old throwing 98mph $8 million. If you had a businees model, which one would you pick.

Everyone was always up in arms about the high school kids getting 8 million in the first few picks of the draft, but in reality it is a freaking steal for the major league ball clubs and owners.

Now they are having to fork a ton of money over to someone just as much an unknown.

Darvish has faced much stiffer competition than any American 18 year old.

MLB is much stiffer competition than Japan. I see Ricky's point though on investments in a 95 MPH pitcher. 100 M or 8 M.

Is there a large contingent of Japanese/Iranian fans Nolan Ryan is after? He thinkns of everything.

Darvish has pitched against MLB hitters. Unlike some of the other Japanese pitchers who have come over here, Darvish is very big... 6-5/230 or something like that. He doesn't lack experience and he is far from being an unknown.

No high school pitcher has ever received $8 million to sign. I'm not sure what Darvish is worth, but if there were enough 8 million dollar high school kids (which there isn't) I would take 12 of those over one Darvish or any other free agent. 8 million is first pick of the draft type money.

Using that theory, I could have one Darvish or instead, for a lot less money, I could have Josh Hamilton, Adrian Gonzalez, Joe Mauer, Delmon Young, Justin Upton, Luke Hochever, David Price, Tim Beckham, Stephen Strasburg, Bryce Harper, Gerritt Cole. Or for that matter name any 12 MLB players you want, because all of them signed for less than 8 Million signing bonus.

What would you do? Then again, one single team never gets a chance at all those draft picks.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Darvish has pitched against MLB hitters. Unlike some of the other Japanese pitchers who have come over here, Darvish is very big... 6-5/230 or something like that. He doesn't lack experience and he is far from being an unknown.

No high school pitcher has ever received $8 million to sign. I'm not sure what Darvish is worth, but if there were enough 8 million dollar high school kids (which there isn't) I would take 12 of those over one Darvish or any other free agent. 8 million is first pick of the draft type money.

Using that theory, I could have one Darvish or instead, for a lot less money, I could have Josh Hamilton, Adrian Gonzalez, Joe Mauer, Delmon Young, Justin Upton, Luke Hochever, David Price, Tim Beckham, Stephen Strasburg, Bryce Harper, Gerritt Cole. Or for that matter name any 12 MLB players you want, because all of them signed for less than 8 Million signing bonus.

What would you do? Then again, one single team never gets a chance at all those draft picks.

Thanks for proving my point!

One thing's for certain based over the last few years of big free agents not signing with Yankees is that they're not the only ones signing free agents to huge contracts. No longer can anyone complain only Yankees attempt to buy championships.

They said Hideki Irabu was the Japanese Nolan Ryan and threw 98 MPH. Of course when Yanks got him, he threw 90-91 max. Does Darvish really throw 98?

What I have seen said he's a mid 90s FB guy...which isn't that special. But the number of pitches he has command of together with his size and track record does make him special.

This Yu Darvish thing is very interesting.

Three points. First, there are many experts that agree this guy is a talented individual. He has the frame, velocity, command and capabilities to get Big Leaguers out. So I think most of us agree the guy will fit nicely in any MLB rotation. He'll have adjustments to make with the MLB baseball, mound, 5-day rotation, and MLB off-day work out routines. One of his former teammates was interviewed on MLB-TV yesterday, and he said Darvish is a leader and a stud on the mound. Many MLB scouts and GMs were drooling over this guy.

Second point is he worth a $51.7 million posting to negotiate. I don't see the value when that money could be used to get an established talent, or draftable talent. The Rangers have just put themselves in the never ending spending game for the foreseeable future along with the rest of the big market teams. A $51.7 salary is a three year deal for a pretty darn good pitcher in this market, and the Rangers decide to not use that money to go toward someone's salary in this economy. The Rangers must have struck oil in TX, because that is not chump change. Even though Darvish is talented this is a huge financial risk in my mind. I was never excited about the Dice-K posting VALUE either.

Third point, and many of you brought it up already with regards to CJ Wilson. They could have used that $51.7 as part payment to secure CJ Wilson for a few more years. It intrigues me why they did not pursue that option. That really has bothered me.

You say the value isn't there and the player isn't with that much on EVERY free agent. It's not much different than a high stakes poker game in Vegas. The only way to know for sure is measure Darvish's results 5 years from now and compare them to Wilsons. I think Darvish will win hands down.

Many interesting theories here. Especially the idea of the Rangers seeking to create a BRAND. Does this mean that they will place less value on winning and more on ticket sales and merchandising? Kinda sounds like the Cubs. Who cares if they actually win...they still fill Wrigley most days.

I'm just not sold on Asian players. How many of them were worth the money? Chan Ho Park maybe? Ichiro, for sure. But Matsusaka? Hell no. Byun Yung Kim? Sure if you're opposing batters in the 9th inning!

And I'm all for capitalism but $51M just to talk to him? As a father of (cross my fingers) a future draft pick or two, I wish more money and effort were spent on American players.

quote:

The only way to know for sure is measure Darvish's results 5 years from now and compare them to Wilsons. I think Darvish will win hands down.

Let's say hypothetically that Darvish makes $10 million per year for the 5 years you mentioned. That's a $50 million contract on top of a $51.7 million posting fee...$101.7 million in total, or $20.34 million per year that Darvish will cost the team. Wilson's contract with the Angels is $15.4 million per year. I think Wilson was vastly overpaid, but Darvish is a dangerous investment at $5 million more per year than Wilson.

Wilson's bWAR value in 2011 was 4.9. His 4.9 in 2011 tied him for 8th in the American League with Jon Lester and Gio Gonzalez, and was behind...in order...Justin Verlander, CC Sabathia, Jered Weaver, Josh Beckett, James Shields, Ricky Romero and Doug Fister.

Darvish's worth is nearly 33% more than CJ Wilson's. Will he be 33% better? 33% better bWAR would put him only behind Verlander, Sabathia and Weaver for 2011...a tall task for a rookie in the league.

Of course the financial appeal is another thing, and RJM is probably correct about that. Darvish's rockstar status in Japan will bring in huge Japanese markets for the Rangers and boost their profits. I don't have access to enough information to make estimates about how much they'll earn through this influx, but I'm sure it'll be a pretty penny.

I'm still inclined to agree with PGStaff...I'd rather sign 50 18 year olds with a 95 mph fastball and play my odds with them than put $100 million into one 25 year old without MLB experience outside the WBC.

The only brand they are working on is as one of the top teams in MLB....wins. Ryan isn't the kind of guy that spends money like this just for anything other than wins.

Comparisons to Wilson's regular season stats are not relevant to a team that now measures themselves by post season performance. Not sure Wilson could even make the roster based on his post season stats.

CJ wore out his welcome, under performed and pouted in response to criticism of his 2011 post season starts. Maybe its a huge risk, signing YD, but there is no doubt resigning Wilson was going to have a continued negative impact in the clubhouse.

An interesting web-article came out today, polling 10 MLB scouts/executives with international experience and 1st hand exposure to Darvish. These dudes were asked to scale Darvish, comparing him against a list of 5 right-handers, varying from good to great. The question was this: "Based on talent alone, would you take Darvish ahead of this pitcher?". The 5 guys in question were Ricky Nolasco, Ian Kennedy, Matt Garza, Zack Greinke and Justin Verlander.

The vote, a unanimous 10-0.

So, I guess we'll see. GED10DaD

Exactly, gunem. No one knows Wilson better than the Rangers. And the Rangers know Darvish as well as anyone...they have had him followed in Japan full time for the last two years. The Rangers clearly think $77m on the 31 year old declining Wilson is more risky than ~$125m total on the 25 year old Darvish on the way up. As you said, gunem, MLB scouts are clear there is no question on the talent....comparing to an unknown and untested 18 year old is not a valid comparison.

If a team could sign fifty 18 year olds with 95 mile an hour fast balls--an impossibility-the team would be lucky if one of them became a number one pitcher. As all of them had been tested only against high school and travel ball hitters on a consistant basis, the team would have no idea which one or if any of them really would develop after three to five years in the minors. Darvish is 25 years old entering his prime and has faced the best international hitters in the world. Look at his stats in the Japanese Leagues--absolutely dominating. I am really surprised that so many people are so leary of a Japanese pitcher. There have been quite a number of older, smaller ones that were quite servicable but none have been as young or accomplished as this fellow, nor as big. Darvish has an excellent chance of being the first real diamond of a pitcher somewhat like Ichiro was the first great regular player from Japan.

I'm sure those 10 MLB scouts/executives know more about Darvish than I do. That said, I would without a doubt take Verlander and I think the Rangers would too if they had the chance. Only Verlander would be even more expensive.

All 10 would take Darvish over Verlander? Guess that means they think Darvish will be the best pitcher in baseball. Sure will be interesting to see how this plays out, either way.

Three Bagger,

You might be right, but IMO they would be extremely unlucky if they were wrong on all 50. Some of these types have won Cy Young awards in the past couple years. Seeing that this is an impossible example guess there is no reason for debate.

Regarding Darvish, I don't think anyone questions his ability or potential. But we all know there are other factors involved. Will Darvish be uncomfortable or will he fit right in. Will he dominate right away and what if he doesn't? Will he adjust to all the changes, not just pitching, but in his life?

No matter what happens, it's going to be real interesting. Whether Ryan cares or not (I'm pretty sure he does) this will make the Rangers even more popular and there is true value in that. It will create more interest in baseball and that's a good thing.

If you read about him off the field, he sounds like a pretty "westernized" guy already. Seems like a safe bet he will adapt well.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
All 10 would take Darvish over Verlander? Guess that means they think Darvish will be the best pitcher in baseball. Sure will be interesting to see how this plays out, either way.

No doubt, the "money" is the driving de-tractor. I get it. But, that said I also understand every player is an un-tested talent at one time. For me, every player is a risk, some are just more worth the risk than others. Whether its upside, projectability, 5-tools, good body, plus power, plus arm, command of 4 pitches, 98(+) MPH FB, plus speed, etc, etc, etc. All those attributes don't guarantee success or prevent failure. It's always a crapshoot, the only truisms - clubs try to minimize risk.... and, RISK is always a factor.

GED10DaD

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:

And I'm all for capitalism but $51M just to talk to him? As a father of (cross my fingers) a future draft pick or two, I wish more money and effort were spent on American players.

Big "if" they only spent more on American players. It's not only the overpaying of rights for players but look at the whole picture........almost every MLB team has a training facility in the Dominican, Venezuela that teach, train baseball to prospects year round. You will never see that here. If it can go on it will go on.

It's not $51m just to talk to him. If no contractual agreement is reached in 30 days, the Rangers pay nothing.

Is anyone going to seriously argue the US born and raised baseball players are poor and disadvantaged relative to those from Latin America? Please...

By the way, the post that said ten ML scouts picked Darvish over Verlander is totally wrong. On ESPN they asked ten ML scouts how they would choose between Darvish and Kennedy, Darvish and Verlander, Darvish and several other guys and on the Darvish vs. Verlander, ALL TEN scouts took Verlander not Darvish. Even I am not so high on him where I would take him over Verlander.

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
Is anyone going to seriously argue the US born and raised baseball players are poor and disadvantaged relative to those from Latin America? Please...

I might have been partially facetious in stating that, however, I just can't wrap my head around spending $50M just to talk to him.

I like PGStaff's idea. I'd rather get 12 or 20 or even 50 pitchers (American or otherwise) for the same money. I'll bet I'd end up with more than one quality MLB pitcher.

quote:

I'd rather get 12 or 20 or even 50 pitchers (American or otherwise) for the same money.

I would rather look like Brad Pitt too. I would also rather have Warren Buffett's wealth....

I don't think that Texas was the right fit for Wilson.
Should be interesting to see how he does in the better weather.

Wonder how many IV's Darvish will need to go through in the Texas heat, per game.

Wilson did better when it was hot in the summer than when it cooled off in the post season. It's not the weather...

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
Wilson did better when it was hot in the summer than when it cooled off in the post season. It's not the weather...

I respectfully disagree, in the Texas League, most are toasted by post season. Some just have a lot of difficulty with the heat, and worn down by season's end.
Wilson did an interview where he said weather was a big factor for him, I agree, at times, two IV's even before a game, it's impossible to stay hydrated.

It will be interesting to see how he does in Anaheim vs. Arlington, that was my point.

That was true "pre-Ryan"...has not been the case since. Compare Wilson's numbers against his peers on the Ranger's staff. He was making excuses, unlike his peers on the staff....one of the reasons he's no longer there.

What will his excuse be in LA? Too distracted when the surf's up?

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
That was true "pre-Ryan"...has not been the case since. Compare Wilson's numbers against his peers on the Ranger's staff. He was making excuses, unlike his peers on the staff....one of the reasons he's no longer there.

What will his excuse be in LA? Too distracted when the surf's up?

He pitched 223 innings last season with a 16-7 record, his second year as a starter, his war 5.0, what more do you want from a reliever turned starter? His biggest fault being the post season, I think he just runs out of gas.
I don't think it was an excuse, having a player in AA Texas League, he has struggled with the heat.

If you are right, he should win the Cy Young this year....he's said as much himself. If I'm right, he' continue to decline and be a 12-10ish pitcher or be on the DL. Time will tell.

quote:

No high school pitcher has ever received $8 million to sign. I'm not sure what Darvish is worth, but if there were enough 8 million dollar high school kids (which there isn't) I would take 12 of those over one Darvish or any other free agent. 8 million is first pick of the draft type money.

The draft artificially constrains the compensation that draftees get relative to free agents, or pseudo-free agents like Darvish. If every HS/College player was a free agent, you'd routinely see some amateur players get bigger deals than they do now. For some examples, look at the sorts of bonuses given out to non-draft eligible FAs like some of the Cubans. Of course you'd probably get more stratification as the super-prospects got more of the overall pie and everyone else less (even allowing for the fact that the pie would probably bigger in this situation).

Of course, the posting system also distorts things, as teams have to bid enough to convince the Japanese team to accept (not to mention the incentive to game the system by over-bidding the posting fee as a blocking maneuver, only to low ball the contract offer). If Darvish were an actual free agent, I think there's a good chance he'd get more than the Rangers will offer him as part of this negotiation, but the team that signed him would spend less than the Rangers will in total between the contract and posting fee.

Nolan Ryan has cured Texas pitchers of worrying about or wearing down in the heat. Proof is in the results - back-to-back ALCS Championships and the 5th best staff ERA in the American League.

CJ was a good pitcher in the regular season for the Rangers but could not get it done in the post-season. That's called "make-up" and the Rangers had seen enough not to offer the big bucks. They had a plan (go after Darvish) and they stuck with it. Kudos to the new ownership for stepping up to the plate.

The anticipation of seeing this kid pitch and the upcoming season has washed away the pain of game six. Can't wait for 2012! The stands will be packed and rocking at the Ballpark. Rangers-Angels rivalry has replaced Yankees-Red Sox hands down.

The Rangers sign Yu Darvish for 6 years/$60 million. That brings the total dollar value spent for the 25 year old RHP to $111.7 million.

Signed!

Will be interesting to see if he is worth it.

Wouldn't it be something if CJ had a career high year and Darvish turns up flat?

quote:

JH said.....The Rangers sign Yu Darvish for 6 years/$60 million. That brings the total dollar value spent for the 25 year old RHP to $111.7 million.

The Rangers are outspending both the Yankees and Red Sox this off season (so far). I'm humbled.

In addition, they now have their entre' into the Japanes markets for brand recognition.

fenway- Sox have been eerily quiet. Yankees were too up until the move a few days ago to bolster the pitching staff (as a Yankee fan I hope this means I never have to see AJ Burnett in pinstripes again).

quote:

The Rangers are outspending both the Yankees and Red Sox this off season

The talk here locally is the Rangers can resign Hamilton and sign Fielder on top of Darvish and still be comfortably within the budget current ownership will accept.

The Rangers better watch out. It's been a while since the best team on paper won the World Series.

Last year before the season, the Red Sox looked unbeatable. By the end of the year they imploded.

quote:

The Rangers better watch out. It's been a while since the best team on paper won the World Series.

The Rangers have never won the WS when they didn't have the best team on paper. It's also nice to see someone pushing the Yankees and Redsox to the kiddie table at Thanksgiving.

I don't think the Red Sox and Yankees got pushed to the kiddie table. The Red Sox picked up two quality relievers while losing only one and the Yankees picked up two starting pitchers. If Valentine can eliminate what caused the Red Sox to fold in September (it wasn't about talent) they will be right in the chase again.

I'm with RJM. My unbiased opinion is that the Yankees and the Red Sox are the best two teams in the American League on paper. Much more depth top to bottom in the pitching staffs than the Rangers.

Of course, that is "on paper" and it's only January.

I agree with JH and RJM.
Here's something interesting from Tom Verducci, who is pretty much on target each year, the rangers have 2 pitchers on his red flag list.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c...er.effect/index.html

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
I agree with JH and RJM.
Here's something interesting from Tom Verducci, who is pretty much on target each year, the rangers have 2 pitchers on his red flag list.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c...er.effect/index.html

It's a good article. I remember the Red Sox being concerned how much Buchholz was blowing out his previous year innings total. They started giving him five days between starts. He still blew out his back in 2011.

I'm a great fan of Mariano Rivera, but we all know that sooner or later--probably sooner at his age--he is going to fall off the cliff. Every great reaches that moment and you can bet, just from observing how the Yankees are handling Jeter's decline as well as they kind of stretched out Posada's, the Yankees will do it again with Mo and probably cost themselves a pennant. The Yankees are considered to be pretty ruthless, but they are still often ruled by tradition or fan opinion as in the case of Jeter and they will have a hard time changing closers in mid stream if Mo fights them on it when he starts to fade. With Posada, they could just put someone else in his place, but it may take a year or year and a half to adjust to life with an ineffective Rivera if Mo doesn't go quitely into the night. The Yankees have had bad ends (at least temporarily) with many of their drawing card superstars--Ruth, Rizzuto, Maris, Berra, Jackson, & Bernie Williams. It will be interesting how quick they are with the knife if Rivera starts failing in mid season.

As for the Bosox, I look for a rejuvenation for a year or two under Bobby Valentine, but in the past he has shown a tendency to get on his players and team executives nerves after a while, kind of like Billy Martin used to. perhaps as he's gotten older and after his years in Japan, where he certainly had to learn patience, Bobby is a little different since his Texas and NY Met days. We shall see and it should be fun!

Three Bagger,
As far as I have heard Mo has many more miles to fly, however, I think plans down the road may include Joba.

The yankees have a young crop of good pitchers in the wings, it's just a matter of throwing them into the ring, and trying to cope with keeping fans happy with growing pains.

I think Joba's shipped sailed a long time ago.

quote:

As far as I have heard Mo has many more miles to fly, however, I think plans down the road may include Joba.

David Robertson is a superstar in the making IMO. Joba should be used as trade bait in the VERY near future, assuming a team would jump at that. They could probably bolster up with a lefty reliever or a young backup outfielder for him, nothing too glamorous but something they'd need more than a mediocre out-of-shape bullpen arm.

Jeter's downfall has been and will continue to be defensively. He had a productive year at the plate last year. Certainly not anywhere near his best, but nothing to scoff at.

Until Mo does dwindle, there's really no telling what the timetable will be. He's truly incredible.

quote:

Originally posted by Three Bagger:
I think Joba's shipped sailed a long time ago.

He's 26 years old, he was once designated as the set up man for Mo. Joba is a perfect example of what can go wrong with a pitcher not handled well and one that probably has been hurt since he came to ML.

They just agreed to a new contract with him for 1.6 give or take, if he works out this year, it would be a bargain for them.

Joba had lost a lot of velocity and just doesn't seem the same pitcher. Perhaps he can still become a useful reliever, but I don't see him as Mo's successor anymore. While its true Jeter still had a decent offensive year for a shortstop, fielding is crucial at that position and his bat, which will probably continue to decline this year doesn't play anywhere else except possibly second base and the Yankees aren't going to move Cano even if Jeter was willing to move which he seems adverse to anyway.

Joba's problems may be of his own making. He never seemed like a guy who worked hard to get into good shape. He's still young. If and when he matures more and starts getting, and staying in shape his career could quickly get back on track.

Just for the record I am not a Yankee fan or a Joba fan, just pointing out that he is expected to fill a role and I believe, it is to replace Mo, eventually.
Lost velocity was due to shoulder issues as well as elbow. And a lot of that has to do with how he has been managed. You just can't have a guy start, then switch to pen, then back to start, back to pen, it just doesn't work that way. JMO.

do not know if any of you heard harold reynolds take on darvish and any japanese pitchers---sccording to reynolds there is a little known fact that comes into play---pitching mounds in japan are not the same height as here in the usa

quote:

pitching mounds in japan are not the same height as here in the usa

baseballs are a little bigger in the US too

The mounds are flatter in Japan apparently but this guy is 6'5" tall, much taller than the average Japanese pitcher, so the higher mounds will probably only help him once he gets used to them. Matsuzaka won eighteen games with Boston with less stuff, poorer command and constant nibbling at the plate. Yu much more resembles the American prototype of a Major League pitcher. He will do fine once he settles in. Texas has the bats to overcome some rough outings.

Three Bagger;
In 2004, my son and I watched Yu pitch for his HS Team
in the Spring HS tournament in Osaka. 40,000 watch the game at Koshien and 30 million on TV.

IN the Japan HS tournament, the #1 pitcher on a team will pitch each game. All major stadiums have "flat" mounds and "No grass" infield for 2 reasons.

1. Save the pitchers arms
2. Allow the game to be played if heavy rains occur.

After each game, the news reporters [20-30] will interview key players of the game.

Actually, I was interviewed by the media and then received an envelope.

Inside the envelope was $1,000 yen.

Naturally I request additional interviews.

Bob

Bob,

I don't blame you! So what is your feeling about how Yu will do in the American League?

His training program in Japan will be an asset to Nolan Ryan's training for the Rangers pitchers.

He is also accustomed to the media and of course the Japanese media will be in constant attendance in Spring Training.

If you plan to visit the Rangers in Surprise, let me know. Several of our coaches in Australia are Texas Rangers managers and scouts.

Bob