Zepp Data -- Hand Speed, Bat Speed, Time to Impact

Have you found the Zepp useful in developing your sons swing?  In other words the Zepp says your swing is too slow or time to impact too long etc....Do they provide tips or drills to correct that flaw?

       
       
Something is amiss here...  those bat speed figures are too high to be bat speeds and a little on the low side for exit velocities.  Very confusing.

They're definitely not exit velocities, since Zepp is measuring the bat movement and not the ball movement. I know that bat speeds (not ball exit velocities) were kind of difficult to measure before a device like Zepp, so maybe this is more accurate, since it is actually attached to the bat?

 

For what it's worth, I found this, in which the folks discussing it had similar numbers for swing speeds: http://www.baseball-fever.com/...934-MLB-swing-speeds

 

It's been two weeks, so I can't say he is a different hitter, but seeing the swing path/plane in 3D has already been extremely useful. I haven't seen tips or drills provided by Zepp, but they do provide data on certain MLB players' swings (Trout, Pence, Altuve and some others) so that you can see what they are doing,

 

So far, it has been useful. More of a tool than a toy, IMHO.

Just looked at your link and that correctly identifies mlb bat speeds in the 70's.   I suppose 80 is possible.  But 95mph pure bat speed.  I am open to be wrong on this but that seems on the impossible side to me.  Would be a great time for PG to chime in since they record all this data.  And I highly doubt there is a little leaguer anywhere on earth who can produce 75 mph bat speed.  My son is on a very good 13u team and 76 is the highest EXIT VELOCITY I have measured so far.  Not sure what bat speed that would equate to 50ish?  55?

P.S. if the bat path info is accurate I would think regardless of speed accuracy it would be a great tool.

The app that comes with it had Jose Altuve's bat speed at 75 on a line drive. Trout, on the other hand, they had at 95 -- which I suppose is where their upper end for MLB comes from -- but I agree with you it seems kind of crazy. But then again he is very strong and definitely a fast-twitch athlete . . . 

Fastest bat speed at PG National underclass was 101 MPH (with many above 90mph):

https://twitter.com/hashtag/BatSpeedImpact?src=hash

 

 

       
       
Ok you have me 90% there.  But of course this is from the very source we are debating (zepp).  None the less I have also been doing some research and it appears that steroid users like bonds and mgwire  reached 95 -100 in some swings.  So I guess we can agree its possible.  And I suppose that there may be some freak of nature 12 year old out there with a 75mph swing.  But I guess I would still say that the elite numbers according to zepp could be a little more realistic.  Especially for the young players trying to measure themselves.  I think I better stick to exit velocities!  Easier to measure and understand!

Don't forget Little Leaguers are using lighter bats too vs drop 3s or less, so their speeds might be inflated.  

Nonetheless, those swing speeds by Zepp are in the ballpark of what I've gotten with my swing radar throughout the years. http://www.sportsadvantage.com...f5yMMCFdgIgQod7l4A8A

Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong, but I was actually a bit more interested in the time to impact (amount of time from when you start your swing to when you hit the ball -- sure, bat speed plays a role in that, but so does being short to the ball). I don't know why I focused more on time to impact -- maybe because it struck me as being almost impossible to measure before a device like the Zepp. 

This a good point - if you stay short you will have plenty of bat speed. I saw one of these at an indoor workout the other night, the dad who had it was just begining to figure it out. from the little I saw it appears to be a good tool. the 3D image was solid visual for the boys.

I'm resurrecting this thread because the Zepp was used and featured at the PG All American Classic. Did anybody see the data on the kids? Did it change anybody's mind on the usefulness of this product? How has it worked for people who have actually used one?

Sorry for all the questions. Son saw it during the game and would like us to get one. If it's useful and accurate it might not be a bad investment. Husband could use it with the high school team he coaches too.

If a kid was looking to improve his bat speed this item looks to be accurate. It seems that a lot of hitters are in the 90s and anything above 100mph is great.

To the uniformed (me), this sounds more like a tool to determine where your kid falls in relationship to other peers.  Of course though, I guess it would be great to present this info to an instructor who would be able to help.

 

 

This is the way to ruin his swing.

 

I am disappointed that PG is focusing on time to impact and hand speed.

 

Bat speed and attack angle is the key to power.

 

Use Zepp's attack angle and be ahead of 99% of kids.

 

 

How do you use the "attack angle" information?

You should be in the 5-20 degree range.  Most kids are negative (they chop down).

When it comes to attack angle this quick video is probably one of the better ones around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ohE51yiD4s

He's confusing and conflating attack angle with where to make contact on the ball ("knuckleball", "backspin", topspin").  He's lost here.

 

Attack angle is no more than the path the bat makes prior to contact.  Is it going up (the same angle as the pitched ball), or going down (chopping down)?

 

A 5-10 degree 'attack angle' roughly matches the path of the incoming ball.  An additional 10 degrees (to 20 deg) can make the ball go farther, but it's also harder to make good contact.

 

A 0 deg attack angle is the 'level swing' which will produce a ball that can't travel over 50 feet.

       
       
I think time to impact is a valid measurement...  but I guess it matters where the impact is made!  For example if you are late on the ball amd hit it right down the oppo line it stands to reason your time to impact is quicker than if you pilled the ball down the line.  That quicker time to impact is not necessarily good.  Also that chopping swing you allude to just may be quicker to impact than a proper swing also and I think this is your complaint with the measurement.   Don't want to put words in your mouth though.  Here is where I think it might be valid.  Given the same or very similar attack angle and same point of impact, say in front of the plate with contact that will lead to a power alley shot...  then shortest time to the ball I suppose could be better.  But now aren't we just right back to bat speed?  So generally I agree with you, bat speed and attack angle are the two keys.  I think the spirit of the time to impact is to reward those without a loopy swing.

P.S. I think what the time to impact is striving to do is measure who because of the dynamics of their swing path can wait just that little tic longer before committing to the swing.  I wouldn't completely dismiss this number just yet.

Have you seen this "chopping down" data anywhere? 

       
       
Golf as I have said on other threads there are still a great many coaches clinging to the swing down to make the ball go up crap.  So while I get your point that there is probably little or no data to support the sultan's assertation I also get the sultan's point that a lot of kids swing down as incorrectly instructed.

No to derail the thread, but I would posit that it is virtually impossible in a full speed game swing to "chop" down.  I'm not sure, but I don't think that the physics would allow it.  Now this Zepp thing might just be able to show it. 

 

Although, I am a little skeptical that a $150 gadget can actually capture all this "data" accurately. 

       
       
you and I both.  I believe I am going to break down and get one but yes a little skeptical.  Maybe chopping down is an exaggeration or bad terminology.  But suffice to say many have a negative attack angle.

Reread this thread and resurrecting.   I did finally break down and get a zepp.  Used a 20% off sports authority coupon.  The $120 made it more palatable.  I have some more definite.opinions now.  Thanks to previous posters I learned a lot about bat speed vs. Exit velocity.  Learned there is not as great a difference between the two as I thought.  So my opinion now is Go get one!  I have been fighting my son a n out his negative attack angle.  Bad thing for a big guy.  And now that he has seen it.on zepp he is starting.to make adjustments.  Began with negative and is now averaging +8.  We also have learned that his hand path is a little long.  Not terrible but could be better.  His bat speed is dynamite and his exit velocity has grown 10mph in a very very short time (before we got zepp) and yet something was still a little off.  I couldn't understand why he had a bit of a bad year.   I have come to the conclusion that the wide hand path (long swing) is forcing him to commit too early.  Not like this is news but zepp was able to graphically show this.  He reacts better to this 'evidence' than he does to dad.  Love the video feature and the ability to add exit velocities etc.  Next time we are doing an overhead video analysis with some tape on the sweet spot to judge 'squaring it up' and its relationship to exit velocity.  I suspect squaring it up may be even more important than swing speed but we will see.  Very exciting!

2020 dad,

I can count on one hand, and have 5 fingers left over, the amount of times my son has listened to me explain what he needed to work on. But for whatever reason, he is more receptive to video and the Zepp technology. I've found that when I show it to him and say nothing, is when I get "all action and no mouth".

It's ok. I'm comfortable with the fact that one day he'll admit that "dad always knew best".  :-)

       
       
Have you seen improvements since using zepp?

I'm still a little skeptical of the numbers reported by Zepp. I recently went to watch a showcase. The showcase reports Zepp readings for all players. We saw many bat speed listed in the 90+, but we also saw their swing in the real games. Some were really weak hitters, couldn't even hit the ball out of the infield. I read somewhere that bat exit speed of 85 should produce a home run on a typical HS field. However, I haven't seen those 90+ guys done one yet. There may be a way to trick the Zepp system ... not sure how coaches/scouts use this data.

Doesn't the Zepp data at showcases get captured using a tee along with a 32 bat?  If that is the case. I assume many folks simply "swing for the fences" and produce some speeds that they cannot (or should not) replicate in a game situation.

Bat speed does not equal home run.  Good lord.  You must also have the correct attack angle (bat angle) and launch angle in order to hit for distance.

 

You could chop down at 100mph and still not get it out of the IF.

Agreed on attack angle - you lose me on short being bad and bat speed is certainly crucial...a kid can learn a new attack angle but bat speed is very hard to gain. 

Hmm, attack angle is not reported. So if a kid want to game the system, he can chop down as hard as he can and get a good bat speed. Correct? Maybe that is the secret why so many kids show pro-level bat speed on Zepp.

 

 

 

2020 Dad,

All Zepp has done for my son is verify some things are being done correctly. He has better luck diagnosing his own swing with feel and video.

That being said, I am working on capturing a couple of his best swings on Zepp, so that when he hits a rough patch he can use that and video to work on any corrections in a quicker manner.

I should know better then to comment on any form of hitting thought....swing long slow and up, that will be awesome!! 

       
       
attack angle is reported on zepp.  All I can say is it is very helpful for us so far.

 I'm impressed with the kid's that have 100MPH or better bat speeds. As these boy's fill out and gain mass they will have some serious power.

This is not Zepp-related but along the same lines. 

 

When you see a kid hit a ball 325 ft., can you assume the exit speed was ~90 mph or better (absent any wind)?

 

It should work the same as a throw, and I know that 90 mph is the approximation of the release velocity of a throw that travels 325 feet. And that 85 mph equates to approximately 300 feet.

 

Does that make sense? Am I thinking about this right?