The Giants signed Barry Zito to a 7 yr deal worth 126 million. REACTION
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It's a pitcher's ballpark and a weak division. He should do well there, and maybe even more importantly stabilize the staff, inspire Lowry, another lefty, mentor Cain, their other hot young starter, and allow Morris to be the third pitcher. Very good chance this can help the Giants like another former A's lefty did - Vida Blue. Problem is that the team to beat in that division is still the Dodgers who also improved in the off-season.
Plus he saves moving expenses.
As a Bay Area baseball fan...and a Giants fan, I'm very happy.
However, I'm not to sure about the $18M/year...whether he's really worth that?...and how it might handicap the Giants for signing other players over the next few years?
There's been a lot of local sports radio talk about this over the past few days...and many question whether he's a bona-fide #1 rotation guy. I personally see him more as a #2 guy.
But the Giants ballpark is big and forgiving. His defense is a little elderly by baseball standards. I hope it works...Barry can own the Bay Area if it does. Everything about him fits in well here.
However, I'm not to sure about the $18M/year...whether he's really worth that?...and how it might handicap the Giants for signing other players over the next few years?
There's been a lot of local sports radio talk about this over the past few days...and many question whether he's a bona-fide #1 rotation guy. I personally see him more as a #2 guy.
But the Giants ballpark is big and forgiving. His defense is a little elderly by baseball standards. I hope it works...Barry can own the Bay Area if it does. Everything about him fits in well here.
quote:Plus he saves moving expenses.
Except to maybe a bigger mansion.
He already lives in San Francisco.
HIs era will take a hit with the Giants underperforming defense.....The Giants outfield won't be "taking away" hits or extra bases from the opposition.
IMO, the combination of Bonds salary, the mortgage on it's park and a depleted minor league system leaves the Giants lacking leverage in almost all negotiations.
The impact of the minor league system shows when they give Feliz a $2,000,000 raise off a .243 year, when he hit below the "Mendoza" line after June. They just don't have upcoming talent in key positions so they overpay for players that are pretty unproductive or try and stay afloat by signing veterans. Other than Vizquel, that strategy has been less that thrilling both in terms of injuries and performance. I am not thinking Klesko will be the second coming of JT Snow at 1B.
Bonds and the mortgage leave them short on the very top free agents when they compete against clubs with stadiums financed by public money.
So, they needed to make a plunge with Zito. They made a public committment in October to be younger and signing Durham, Aurellia, Klesko and Roberts left their fan base incredulous.
History shows long term contracts with pitchers have never been successful. I think the Giants overpaid... by a lot. But they had to do it. The way they have managed the franchise leaves them no other option. They are better for this but I don't think the team is $126,000,000 better. For that money, I would want Vernon Wells or a similar everyday player. .
The impact of the minor league system shows when they give Feliz a $2,000,000 raise off a .243 year, when he hit below the "Mendoza" line after June. They just don't have upcoming talent in key positions so they overpay for players that are pretty unproductive or try and stay afloat by signing veterans. Other than Vizquel, that strategy has been less that thrilling both in terms of injuries and performance. I am not thinking Klesko will be the second coming of JT Snow at 1B.
Bonds and the mortgage leave them short on the very top free agents when they compete against clubs with stadiums financed by public money.
So, they needed to make a plunge with Zito. They made a public committment in October to be younger and signing Durham, Aurellia, Klesko and Roberts left their fan base incredulous.
History shows long term contracts with pitchers have never been successful. I think the Giants overpaid... by a lot. But they had to do it. The way they have managed the franchise leaves them no other option. They are better for this but I don't think the team is $126,000,000 better. For that money, I would want Vernon Wells or a similar everyday player. .
Isn't Ryan Klesko about 45 or 50 years old? 
We here in Texas would have liked him to come here. Since the Rangers signed McCarthy from the White Sox it lessens the loss. The Giants got a good one. As always, the Rangers still need more pitching but the rotation as it is now shows the most promise it has in a while.
I believe the Rangers were a mere bargaining chip in the process. They were in the picture to drive the price up...thats the way it looks to me.
Zito apparently really wanted to play in NY. The Mets wouldn't go over $80M (I've heard). Zito lives in SF and is a California-kid. So staying in SF was a good second-option and fits his lifestyle and rumored acting aspirations nicely.
The Giants part of the equation was explained well by infielddad...that is the Giants HAD to sign Zito given the extreme pressure from their fan base.
I hope it works.
Zito apparently really wanted to play in NY. The Mets wouldn't go over $80M (I've heard). Zito lives in SF and is a California-kid. So staying in SF was a good second-option and fits his lifestyle and rumored acting aspirations nicely.
The Giants part of the equation was explained well by infielddad...that is the Giants HAD to sign Zito given the extreme pressure from their fan base.
I hope it works.
quote:Isn't Ryan Klesko about 45 or 50 years old?
As I said, the Giants committed to getting younger.
Better yet, he is our back up left fielder on days Bonds needs a rest. Zito better learn to pitch away and Roberts and Wynn might want to do some long distance running this winter.
A lot of money for sure, but the Giants had to get this one done. They had already made it known that they weren't shy about spending with their offers to Lee, Pierre, and Matthews Jr. Resigning Bonds for another year just PO'd the fans, even if it did make good baseball sense.
Zito makes better sense to me. Not only is he my son's favorite pitcher, but look how well the last dependable LHP the Giants had (Kirk Reuter) did in that ballpark. Zito has much better stuff than Reuter ever did.
I don't see the Giants defense being as bad as others do, despite last year. Sure Bonds is a liability in left field, and Durham has a junk yard glove. But Roberts and Winn are solid defenders and the left side of the infield is top notch. I do wonder how Zito will do at Coors Field. That dog will not bite in the thin air.
I think JBB is right, Zito will be king if this works out. It may just take a championship to work though. Still, after all of the losses lately, it's nice for Bay Area fans to keep one for a change.
Zito makes better sense to me. Not only is he my son's favorite pitcher, but look how well the last dependable LHP the Giants had (Kirk Reuter) did in that ballpark. Zito has much better stuff than Reuter ever did.
I don't see the Giants defense being as bad as others do, despite last year. Sure Bonds is a liability in left field, and Durham has a junk yard glove. But Roberts and Winn are solid defenders and the left side of the infield is top notch. I do wonder how Zito will do at Coors Field. That dog will not bite in the thin air.
I think JBB is right, Zito will be king if this works out. It may just take a championship to work though. Still, after all of the losses lately, it's nice for Bay Area fans to keep one for a change.
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:quote:Isn't Ryan Klesko about 45 or 50 years old?
As I said, the Giants committed to getting younger.Actually, they said he is only about 36, he just plays like he is 45-50 years old.
Bonds WAS great. I think I could beat him to first, though. Watching him play left reminds me of a senior league softball game. Walk over to the ball, pick it up, toss it in. Klesko will look like Matsui in left compared to Bonds.
quote:the left side of the infield is top notch.
Does that mean Vizquel plays SS and 3B?
Also, the idea of Klesko and Richie at 1B with a declining Molina catching doesn't make me think all the Gold Gloves are coming to SFO. While I think Zito will like triples alley, he definitely benefited by the defense of Ellis, Chavez and Crosby.
quote:Does that mean Vizquel plays SS and 3B?
I actually like Feliz' glove at 3rd. If he hadn't been moved around so much by Dusty he might already be a Gold Glover by now. His bat, now, is another story.
If he could solve the crisis in the Middle East, stop terrorists, ease World Hunger, and find a cure for cancer, he's be worth $18 million a year.
Since he hasn't done any of the above...the long answer is...no.
Since he hasn't done any of the above...the long answer is...no.
Based on the $$$ the owners are doling out to .500 pitchers he is worth it
$18M per year x 7yrs is lunacy, for a pitcher. A TJ surgery would cost the Giants as much as $36M. If Zito stays healthy and performs, it may be a reasonable deal. I can't fathom that much over that extended period, for a pitcher.
....but as another post stated, they are paying gold bricks to .500 pitchers.
Be good,
David
....but as another post stated, they are paying gold bricks to .500 pitchers.
Be good,
David
If you judge worth and value based on what .500 pitchers are making, then you could say he's getting market value.
On the other hand, is ANY athlete worth $18 million per year?
It was just a few years ago that the owners were crying because they were losing money hand over fist. Now, they're back to the point of spending money like a drunken sailor on shore leave in Singapore.
I wonder how much Giants tickets will go up this year?
On the other hand, is ANY athlete worth $18 million per year?
It was just a few years ago that the owners were crying because they were losing money hand over fist. Now, they're back to the point of spending money like a drunken sailor on shore leave in Singapore.
I wonder how much Giants tickets will go up this year?
Are any execs at major companies worth the bonuses they get at the end of every year ???
I just called my kid. I told him to go long toss....again.
I told mine, also a lefty, to forget the slider and work on that big ol' curveball
I would love to have Zito. The Tribe has been looking at signing his buddy Mark Mulder coming off rotator cuff surgery 
I still wish we had Omar as well.
Gold glove first baseman are a valuable commodity imho. It is one position that can raise the fielding percentage of your entire team so would love to have someone like JT Snow.
I still wish we had Omar as well.Gold glove first baseman are a valuable commodity imho. It is one position that can raise the fielding percentage of your entire team so would love to have someone like JT Snow.
All in all, I'd say its a pretty darned good day in Gigante-land.
No pitcher is worth $126,000,000.00, but that is what the market has become these days. I'd rather have Zito at 126MM than Gil Meche or Ted Lilly at what they're getting. It hurt to lose Schmidt (especially to the Dodgers!) but this should go a long way to bringing them into a contender role in the NL west. Heck, they now have one of the better starting rotations in the whole NL.
Don't worry leftydad, if Zito ever needs TJ, the Giants have an awesome surgeon on their staff!
No pitcher is worth $126,000,000.00, but that is what the market has become these days. I'd rather have Zito at 126MM than Gil Meche or Ted Lilly at what they're getting. It hurt to lose Schmidt (especially to the Dodgers!) but this should go a long way to bringing them into a contender role in the NL west. Heck, they now have one of the better starting rotations in the whole NL.
Don't worry leftydad, if Zito ever needs TJ, the Giants have an awesome surgeon on their staff!
A pitcher is "worth" whatever a team is willing to pay. Is Matsuzaka "worth" the 103M the Redsox will dole out over the next 6 years? Who knows? Fifty-one million is already gone and the kid hasn't pitched in the majors yet! Zito is still young and he's a horse. Is it true he's never been on the DL? There's a reason Billy Beane held on to him longer than he did Mulder and Hudson. Expansion has watered down pitching so much that many "major league" pitchers of this era wouldn't have made it out of AA ball back in the day. Zito's not one of them for sure. Don't begrudge him the money, if he's worth it to the Giants, then he's worth it.
Not begrudging Zito.....I just believe the Giants made a bad deal, as far as the amount of the contract. The closest offer was the Rangers at $84M. Boras strikes again! Don't you think the Giants could have had him at $90M?
As far as Matsuzaka, that's a another deal in itself. I'd find it hard to cough up $103M to a pitcher who has never thrown a pitch in an MLB game, but that's just my opinion......which cost nothing, while having even less value.
Be good,
David
As far as Matsuzaka, that's a another deal in itself. I'd find it hard to cough up $103M to a pitcher who has never thrown a pitch in an MLB game, but that's just my opinion......which cost nothing, while having even less value.
Be good,
David
Ironically, Boras seems to have made up for the spanking he took from the RedSox in the Dice-K deal. He only got about 1/2 of the salary he was looking for from the Sox. It's so nice to see him in situations where he's not holding the hammer. Dice-K didn't want to go back to Japan and his old team didn't want him back if it meant giving up that 51M. Boras wins more often than not, but the RedSox have beat him on more than one occasion. Varitek's last contract was a question of Tek telling Boras, and the public, "I want to play for the RedSox, so get it done!". That must have made ol' Scottie cringe!
Interesting reading in the NYC papers this morning---not too many writers are getting on the METS case for not signing Zito---the Mets were not going to spend that kind of money---they have been burned before
quote:they have been burned before
Is Pedro a burn?
I do not consider Pedro a burn at all--- he has been great in the clubhouse and has put fannies in the seats
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Someone has to do this...might as well be me...people at the top of their fields...
According to USA Today (Data were provided by executive-pay-tracker eComp Data Services).
...
- "Forget restraint," says Paul Hodgson, analyst for shareholder watchdog group The Corporate Library. "After years of moderate gains, it's business as usual."
- Median CEO compensation last year $14 M per year
- Superstars.."Coach's Lew Frankfort pocketed $84 million exercising options, and received fresh grants worth more than $130 million, while Forest Laboratories' Howard Solomon gained $90.5 million from exercising options."
- Cincinnati-based Fifth Third Bancorp's (Are these the people who keep sending me those EMails?) shares lost 20% and earnings fell 12%. But CEO George Schaefer received an $825,000 bonus after directors used their "best business judgment" analyzing measures such as the economy, his progress on regulatory matters and leadership objectives, according to its proxy. Schaefer also got options worth up to $17 million and gained $9 million exercising options. The company did not return calls.
Beyond that...
- Nicole Kidman is paid $17m for each movie
- A few years ago Barbara Steisand was paid $20M for a 1 hour concert.
44
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Someone has to do this...might as well be me...people at the top of their fields...
According to USA Today (Data were provided by executive-pay-tracker eComp Data Services).
...
- "Forget restraint," says Paul Hodgson, analyst for shareholder watchdog group The Corporate Library. "After years of moderate gains, it's business as usual."
- Median CEO compensation last year $14 M per year
- Superstars.."Coach's Lew Frankfort pocketed $84 million exercising options, and received fresh grants worth more than $130 million, while Forest Laboratories' Howard Solomon gained $90.5 million from exercising options."
- Cincinnati-based Fifth Third Bancorp's (Are these the people who keep sending me those EMails?) shares lost 20% and earnings fell 12%. But CEO George Schaefer received an $825,000 bonus after directors used their "best business judgment" analyzing measures such as the economy, his progress on regulatory matters and leadership objectives, according to its proxy. Schaefer also got options worth up to $17 million and gained $9 million exercising options. The company did not return calls.
Beyond that...
- Nicole Kidman is paid $17m for each movie
- A few years ago Barbara Steisand was paid $20M for a 1 hour concert.
44.
ob44 - I agree and good points. That is why I did not mention in my post above how much Zito was paid. I merely said I would love to have him
For whatever reason, the money angle is always played up in sports - especially baseball. It seems like it is a badge of honor in Hollywood yet someone like Zito needs to justify things.
For whatever reason, the money angle is always played up in sports - especially baseball. It seems like it is a badge of honor in Hollywood yet someone like Zito needs to justify things.
7 year contracts for pitchers? Kevin Brown? Mike Hampton?
How have those worked out? Of course, one WS title would make it worth it.
How have those worked out? Of course, one WS title would make it worth it.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:quote:they have been burned before
Is Pedro a burn?
He started the player acquisition ball rolling. Him going to the Mets helped get the rest of the FA's.
It should be interesting to see how the NY teams proceed. The Mets still need to fill out their rotation. With all the big FAs gone, will they be forced to deal Lastings Millidge to get a quality arm? And what's to become of Randy Johnson now that Zito is off the market?
My point is not that Zito should substantiate his contract....it's more a testament to a questionable financial move by the Giants. Again, 7-years for a pitcher can have horrible results.
Omar was quoted as saying that he didn't feel comfortable advising his owner to go past even the 5-year contract, pertaining to Zito. I'd have to agree with him on that one.
FYI....I wouldn't let Streisand in my house if she paid a cover charge......the same goes for the rest of the liberal "movie stars". She and Sean Penn would make a wonderful couple.
Be good,
David
Omar was quoted as saying that he didn't feel comfortable advising his owner to go past even the 5-year contract, pertaining to Zito. I'd have to agree with him on that one.
FYI....I wouldn't let Streisand in my house if she paid a cover charge......the same goes for the rest of the liberal "movie stars". She and Sean Penn would make a wonderful couple.
Be good,
David
leftydad,
with your FYI
quote:FYI....I wouldn't let Streisand in my house if she paid a cover charge......the same goes for the rest of the liberal "movie stars". She and Sean Penn would make a wonderful couple.
Please don't send them over to my house either
