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15 or 16 at the earliest. A change up is just as effective, just as easy to learn and 1000% safer to throw. A curve ball is 100% optional for success above high school. A change up is virtually essential after high school. Most good college pitchers throw 2 seam, slider and change.
A real example; Kid at our high school, great curveball at a young age, everyone loves it. Coach makes him a varsity pitcher as a freshman, now starting junior year, has no confidence in his other pitches, even fastball. throws 60% curves to throw strikes, regular arm pain, and hitters have figured out just to wait for the curve and just pound it. I blame the arm pain on the curve which he started at 11, and coaches who fall in love with it. My kid can throw a curve but refused to until this year at 16 years old when his growth plates closed, pro pitchers and coaches he ran into growing up told him not to. Never has had arm pain, but the refusal did cost him starts and varsity time, in the long run we will see who was right.
quote:Originally posted by Pitcher18:
I'm hoping to open a discussion on an issue that seems to generate as many different opinions as any baseball topic I can think of -- when is the "right" time for pitchers to start throwing curveballs?
I think that waiting until 16 or 17 is best.
Trevor Hoffman never threw one until he was in college, so that excuse for startin early goes out the window.
Also, I don't buy the "he only throws a couple of curveballs in a game" argument because to throw just one curveball in a game, you have to throw a lot more (maybe hundreds) in practice. That can lead to overuse problems, at least.
At 10 or 11, kids should be working on their fastball and their changeup. A great c/u is probably the most devastating pitch in baseball.
Starting to learn the curve at 13 or 14 is plenty early.
Starting to learn the curve at 13 or 14 is plenty early.
On aspect than many do not recognize---at age 10/11 the youth is pitching at the 40 ft distance---get to HS and you are pitching at 60ft 6 inches---he now needs to learn to throw it all over again---this being the case with all of the other aspects involved why not wait until the youth reaches the HS level and the full size diamond
PITCHER18 I think you have a good grip on understanding the CB.
My son who is 20 has thrown a CB for 10-11 years. He was taught by ML players and scouts. Never had an ar4m injury and would fall under the over used catagory. Played on as many as 4 teams in one year and was always throwing 100 + innings.
I break thye CB into 2 types. One I label a LL CB which is a slow breaking CB and has no stress on the arm. The other is a ML CB which has the tomahawk action which can if thrown improperly cause elbow problems.
I also like to differentiate betwenn the body type of a young pitcher. Short ,tall ,stocky average or lanky. I feel the tall lanky pitcher with long fingers,arms etc have less chance of injury than the short lanky guys because of the difference in effort level This is just atheory from observing years of pitching at all level.
You understand that conditioning of the arm properly for throwing a BB is key to arm health. We had a couple checkups evey year by a specialistand my son worked out all year throwing and more throwing plus strength training. The training should be specific to pitching.
My son who is 20 has thrown a CB for 10-11 years. He was taught by ML players and scouts. Never had an ar4m injury and would fall under the over used catagory. Played on as many as 4 teams in one year and was always throwing 100 + innings.
I break thye CB into 2 types. One I label a LL CB which is a slow breaking CB and has no stress on the arm. The other is a ML CB which has the tomahawk action which can if thrown improperly cause elbow problems.
I also like to differentiate betwenn the body type of a young pitcher. Short ,tall ,stocky average or lanky. I feel the tall lanky pitcher with long fingers,arms etc have less chance of injury than the short lanky guys because of the difference in effort level This is just atheory from observing years of pitching at all level.
You understand that conditioning of the arm properly for throwing a BB is key to arm health. We had a couple checkups evey year by a specialistand my son worked out all year throwing and more throwing plus strength training. The training should be specific to pitching.
I would agree with TRhit, my son started throwing the CB at age 16. He developed a good change as he continues to mature. He is a Junior this year and has not missed any playing time or start time becasue of the decision to wait, from HS team or Summer team.
quote:he now needs to learn to throw it all over again---this being the case with all of the other aspects involved why not wait until the youth reaches the HS level and the full size diamond
Learning to feel the ball is not distant specific. Finger pressure is the key to throwing a CB. A good pitcher can adjust to thye change in distance within a couple outings.
Doctors don't want you throwing period. The act as many know is unnatural. The LL CB is less stressful than a FB according to my son. He still mixes in a LL CB on a rare occassion.
I do think you make a very valid point in that many kids start throwing curves without proper instruction. It is crucial that when learning the pitch they are taught the proper mechanics and then receive reinforced instruction to maintain those mechanics. Many a kid has learned the curve ball incorrectly and have bad habits that eventually screw up the arm.
I would really stress control of the fast ball and developing an effect change as the main priorities before high school. With proper teaching, start experimenting with the curve perhaps the year before entering high school. But on a watchful and limited basis.
Once learned, too many kids fall in love with the curve as it is very effective especially against inexperienced hitters. Next thing you know they're throwing it over 50% of the time....not a good thing.
I would really stress control of the fast ball and developing an effect change as the main priorities before high school. With proper teaching, start experimenting with the curve perhaps the year before entering high school. But on a watchful and limited basis.
Once learned, too many kids fall in love with the curve as it is very effective especially against inexperienced hitters. Next thing you know they're throwing it over 50% of the time....not a good thing.
quote:Originally posted by Dad04:
15 or 16 at the earliest. A change up is just as effective, just as easy to learn and 1000% safer to throw. A curve ball is 100% optional for success above high school. A change up is virtually essential after high school. Most good college pitchers throw 2 seam, slider and change.
I agree with the above and all else said about the curveball.
Most of the pitchers around here who threw curves don't pitch anymore.
I know that some have an argument out there for teaching it at a young age (correctly) but then as stated the young pitchers relies on it more and more to get outs and is successful, in the end can result in injury and not learning to rely on the bread and butter stuff. Work on the 2 seam FB with your young pitcher for movement and sink, and variations of the change up, it takes a long time to develop but the safest.
JMO from a pitcher's parent that is healthy. In the end, that should be the long term goal.
My question would be: Why in the world does a 10 or 11 year old need an arsenal of 3 pitches?
I was at The Candian National exhibition last summer and I sat to watch kids throw against a radar gun. Some of them with their BB shirts on which I assummed they played organized ball at some level Almost every one of them started throwing with everything they had and everyone came away rubbing their shoulder or forearm. Most hurt around the Rotator Cuff or the Ulnar ligament. Non warmed up and non had a clue about mechanics. I found it interesting where the pain developed and how quickly. Proper development strengthens those areas and helps avoid injury.
AS a 10-14 yo my son used FB, CB,CU and could throw all of them accurately. His FB was average but the CU and CB were dominating. He was taught to snap his index finger and thumb together to develop his CB. You can see him to this day doing that. Finger pr5essure is a important to get the ball to break.
AS a 10-14 yo my son used FB, CB,CU and could throw all of them accurately. His FB was average but the CU and CB were dominating. He was taught to snap his index finger and thumb together to develop his CB. You can see him to this day doing that. Finger pr5essure is a important to get the ball to break.
bobblehead
Are you saying that the curve at 40 feet is the same as the curve at 60?
Sorry---I cannot agree
And to say the LL curve is different than what you call a MLB Curve only confuses me
Are you saying that the curve at 40 feet is the same as the curve at 60?
Sorry---I cannot agree
And to say the LL curve is different than what you call a MLB Curve only confuses me
quote:My question would be: Why in the world does a 10 or 11 year old need an arsenal of 3 pitches?
Thats an easy question to answer.
My son's FB was only average and he wanted to be a great pitcher even at that age. We invesigated, read up on it and talked to experts.
Proper mechanics is the same for a FB as it is for a CB. My son threw the CB naturally from an early age, has never missed an outing due to arm injury caused by CB. He at 17U threw 2 perfect games. 4 complete shutouts in a row. 1 was a 15 strikeout 1 hitter. He was throwing against 19U Elite teams.
His CB is what got him wins and off speeds defined him as a pitcher.
My experience is quite different than TPM's. Young kids throwing FB in our area have had a larger rate of arm injury and cut their careers short.
TR I am saying a pitcher can adjust to the 60'6 as all our pitchers had to do.
Team Ontario held a camp my son went to. He was used to demonstrate prper mechanics and was asked to throw his CB to a catcher standing on the other side of a 4' fence surrounding the bll park. He skipped 4 out of 5 off the top of the fence. This drill was strange but the coach used it to demonstrate contol of the CB. Another college pitching coach had their pitchers throw blind folded. He wanted you to mentally know where you were putting the ball. He threw the CB for strikes.
CBs at an early age are about feel and finger pressure. The mechanics are the same as for a FB. One coach had the pitchers pitch from 2nd base. Control is control.
Team Ontario held a camp my son went to. He was used to demonstrate prper mechanics and was asked to throw his CB to a catcher standing on the other side of a 4' fence surrounding the bll park. He skipped 4 out of 5 off the top of the fence. This drill was strange but the coach used it to demonstrate contol of the CB. Another college pitching coach had their pitchers throw blind folded. He wanted you to mentally know where you were putting the ball. He threw the CB for strikes.
CBs at an early age are about feel and finger pressure. The mechanics are the same as for a FB. One coach had the pitchers pitch from 2nd base. Control is control.
I've always told my 13 year old he can throw the curve once he starts shaving. Age does not always indicate when to throw the curve ball. I agree with some of the other posts, work with the CU. I like the kunckle ball. Greg Maddux threw mainly FB and OS and he's had pretty good success.
quote:Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Most of the pitchers around here who threw curves don't pitch anymore.
TPM,
I would have to agree with that statement, although in my case I would say there's more to the story. Most of the pitchers that threw curves early were the ones without big velocity. As on coach called them, "junkball" pitchers. So from my observation, it wasn't the curve that killed them, it was their lack of all around ability. JMO
My experience suggests that the curve is far less effective against top varsity hitters. THAT is probably why you see it used less by older kids.
My son has a good curve but uses it less often each year.
My son has a good curve but uses it less often each year.
Bobblehead,
Any young pitcher trying to throw his hardest without good mechanics is not going to remain healthy either.
Bringing up a healthy pitcher is not an easy task. You take a piece here and a piece there and try to make logical sense to it. With some of the info coming out today, throwing CB's early and often isn't logical.
My son never had a dominating CB, most likely because he didn't begin using it until later in HS, while learning the slider, so it became more of a slurve.
Interesting that now he has been taught to throw a slider properly (not that he throws every one properly yet
) and using the CB less.
As a parent, I personally prefer that mine develop his FB properly over time, gain velocity on his FB as he matures, learn how to change speeds effectively, not be afraid to pitch inside (another thing we don't teach much anymore) rather than having success with CB's early.
Does your son use his CB more now than FB or CU and if so, is it successful? You often speak about your sons success when he was younger and I do beleive that young pitchers relying on CB's will be successful against their peers. In college, watchout,most can eat it up.
CP,
Bobblehead's statment supports what you say, the ones who don't have velocity will use CB. That doesn't mean a pitcher will not be successful, but I do beleive eventually it might cause injuries, or setbacks.
Any young pitcher trying to throw his hardest without good mechanics is not going to remain healthy either.
Bringing up a healthy pitcher is not an easy task. You take a piece here and a piece there and try to make logical sense to it. With some of the info coming out today, throwing CB's early and often isn't logical.
My son never had a dominating CB, most likely because he didn't begin using it until later in HS, while learning the slider, so it became more of a slurve.
Interesting that now he has been taught to throw a slider properly (not that he throws every one properly yet
) and using the CB less. As a parent, I personally prefer that mine develop his FB properly over time, gain velocity on his FB as he matures, learn how to change speeds effectively, not be afraid to pitch inside (another thing we don't teach much anymore) rather than having success with CB's early.
Does your son use his CB more now than FB or CU and if so, is it successful? You often speak about your sons success when he was younger and I do beleive that young pitchers relying on CB's will be successful against their peers. In college, watchout,most can eat it up.
CP,
Bobblehead's statment supports what you say, the ones who don't have velocity will use CB. That doesn't mean a pitcher will not be successful, but I do beleive eventually it might cause injuries, or setbacks.
quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:
Most of the pitchers that threw curves early were the ones without big velocity. As on coach called them, "junkball" pitchers.
My 11YO son doesn't have huge velocity (but is probably above average) but instead of teaching him the CB, I have taught him to throw a 2-Seamer/Sinker and to keep the ball down (and away).
It has worked extremely well (he is a ground ball pitcher). I feel that he is learning how to pitch (rather than just throw heat or junk).
i don't think you should even think about teaching the curve untill 14 or 15. if your going to need a curve ball before then your an outfielder. fb, cu are enough to get you to 14 or15. more important to teach location. if your going to show him the curve, show him the way to birmingham....he'll need it.
My old man wouldnt let me throw a curve ball until I could do 100 push-ups. Not that this is right or wrong, its just how it went down in my house. Its not a "right" age, but a right level of strength when the curve should be taught IMO.
Have you hit 100 push ups yet? LOL
Unless you have a Zach Duke or Barry Zito CB, you are going to scrap it for a slider anyway. Good hitters pound bad curve balls. Probably the most over rated pitch in amateur baseball.
quote:Originally posted by deemax:
Its not a "right" age, but a right level of strength when the curve should be taught IMO.
The issue, and the reason why the age of 16 or 17 keeps coming up, has nothing to do with strength. Instead, it is related to the development of the body, and in particular the closing of the growth plates in the elbow.
In most cases, the growth plate by which the Medial Epicondyle, and thus the USL, is joined to the Humerus closes by the time a person is 16 or 17.
No amount of strengthening can change this.
In fact, until this growth plate closes, too much strengthening can make a player MORE, rather than less, vulnerable to injury (by making it easier for them to pull the Medial Epicondyle off of the Humerus at the growth plate.
Until a player is 16 or so, they are developing the muscles of a man but still have the bones of a child.
Tons of kids that didn't throw cb's had arm trouble. For every 12yr old curveball pitcher that no longer pitches you'll have 30 kids who did not throw curves who no longer pitch.
I do agree that throwing the curve too much probably keeps you from developing your fastball and change, and I believe that a good change is better than a good curve.
Not every kid will be able to throw 95 no matter how much he works at it. Most kids will not play past HS whether they throw a cb or not.
When my older son was 11 he was the only one on his team that threw a curve, at the end of the season he was the only one that didn't have a sore arm. He started using the curveball at 10 and he's now 23 and never really had arm trouble. I think it had more to do with conditioning than whether or not he threw the curveball. I think genetics has a lot to do with durability and how hard you can throw as well how fast you can run.
I agree with a lot of what Pitcher 18 said but I did wish that my son would have spent more time working on his change. But it was his life, his arm and his choice. We argued about it some but he went way beyond what I ever imagined doing it his way.
If you don't want to throw curves until you're 17, that's great, but if you want to throw curve at 10 that should be ok too. If it's thrown right there's probably less stress on the arm than a maximum effort fastball, just my opinion. But I've definately seen more high velocity guys shut down than junkballers because of arm trouble. There's also a lot more $$ available for the lucky ones who can hit 95+
I do agree that throwing the curve too much probably keeps you from developing your fastball and change, and I believe that a good change is better than a good curve.
Not every kid will be able to throw 95 no matter how much he works at it. Most kids will not play past HS whether they throw a cb or not.
When my older son was 11 he was the only one on his team that threw a curve, at the end of the season he was the only one that didn't have a sore arm. He started using the curveball at 10 and he's now 23 and never really had arm trouble. I think it had more to do with conditioning than whether or not he threw the curveball. I think genetics has a lot to do with durability and how hard you can throw as well how fast you can run.
I agree with a lot of what Pitcher 18 said but I did wish that my son would have spent more time working on his change. But it was his life, his arm and his choice. We argued about it some but he went way beyond what I ever imagined doing it his way.
If you don't want to throw curves until you're 17, that's great, but if you want to throw curve at 10 that should be ok too. If it's thrown right there's probably less stress on the arm than a maximum effort fastball, just my opinion. But I've definately seen more high velocity guys shut down than junkballers because of arm trouble. There's also a lot more $$ available for the lucky ones who can hit 95+
TPM my son has adapted to the college ball fairly well. He uses CBs often still but not as much. Our long range plan was control and then velocity. His velocity has increased 4-5 mph since last year and he has gained 18 lbs.
I feel his stats are quite good so far this season and he is now getting to start some games. It will be an adjustment to thinking like a starter from closing but I know he can adjust.
I talk about 17U because he played against 19U teams. There was no 17U league. He has faced several US state champions. One of them was LA state champions (The Jesuit HS) We were losing 7-0 after the 1st inning. All our pitchers were being saved for a weekend tournament. They decided to put my son in and he shut them down cold. We came back and lost by 1 run. 3 of those player play at LSU.
I would say that as he played 18-19U he has used the CB less than as a 17U and has pitched games without using his CB. He pitched against an Elite team a few years ago run by the Kansas City Royals scout (Toronto) closing out the last 3 innings and struck out 8 of the 9 batters he faced. The 9th grounded out off the end of his bat to 1st base.
Last summer he played senior elite ball and was voted rookie of the year . he closed one game we were loosing 5-3. He faced 5 batters and struck them all out. The starting pitcher was drafted and played independant league for a couple years. He used hid FB and an occasional CB in addition to other pitches. He was dominate and his team asked where the heck that FB came from. He ended up getting a6-5 win. Yes I could relate several stories at all levels of play but it is true that he used a CB more frequently from 10-17 but he still relies on it.
I might add that several of his teammates who also threw CB at an early age are still uninjured to this day. I understand it is very easy to get a mind set about BB issues but if you examine the arm of a pitcher who are hard throwers they lock out their elbows and believe that is where a lot of elbow injury comes from. My son's elbow is still slightly bent and not even stressed.
I feel his stats are quite good so far this season and he is now getting to start some games. It will be an adjustment to thinking like a starter from closing but I know he can adjust.
I talk about 17U because he played against 19U teams. There was no 17U league. He has faced several US state champions. One of them was LA state champions (The Jesuit HS) We were losing 7-0 after the 1st inning. All our pitchers were being saved for a weekend tournament. They decided to put my son in and he shut them down cold. We came back and lost by 1 run. 3 of those player play at LSU.
I would say that as he played 18-19U he has used the CB less than as a 17U and has pitched games without using his CB. He pitched against an Elite team a few years ago run by the Kansas City Royals scout (Toronto) closing out the last 3 innings and struck out 8 of the 9 batters he faced. The 9th grounded out off the end of his bat to 1st base.
Last summer he played senior elite ball and was voted rookie of the year . he closed one game we were loosing 5-3. He faced 5 batters and struck them all out. The starting pitcher was drafted and played independant league for a couple years. He used hid FB and an occasional CB in addition to other pitches. He was dominate and his team asked where the heck that FB came from. He ended up getting a6-5 win. Yes I could relate several stories at all levels of play but it is true that he used a CB more frequently from 10-17 but he still relies on it.
I might add that several of his teammates who also threw CB at an early age are still uninjured to this day. I understand it is very easy to get a mind set about BB issues but if you examine the arm of a pitcher who are hard throwers they lock out their elbows and believe that is where a lot of elbow injury comes from. My son's elbow is still slightly bent and not even stressed.
Painguy
So "development of the body" has "nothing to do with strength"????? Real strength isnt going to be obtained until your well on your way to being fully developed anyway. Saying "strength" has nothing to do with it in relation to throwing a curveball is wrong. I'll bet no one in the history of this game has ever measured the growth plates in their sons elbow to see if he was ready to throw a duece or not....But I'll bet a lot of dad's question wether or not their son is strong enough to start throwing a curve.
"In fact"...or in theory. If this is factual can you please refer to a specific example. I'm actually quite interested to see the correlation.
quote:The issue, and the reason why the age of 16 or 17 keeps coming up, has nothing to do with strength. Instead, it is related to the development of the body, and in particular the closing of the growth plates in the elbow.
So "development of the body" has "nothing to do with strength"????? Real strength isnt going to be obtained until your well on your way to being fully developed anyway. Saying "strength" has nothing to do with it in relation to throwing a curveball is wrong. I'll bet no one in the history of this game has ever measured the growth plates in their sons elbow to see if he was ready to throw a duece or not....But I'll bet a lot of dad's question wether or not their son is strong enough to start throwing a curve.
quote:In fact, until this growth plate closes, too much strengthening can make a player MORE, rather than less, vulnerable to injury (by making it easier for them to pull the Medial Epicondyle off of the Humerus at the growth plate.
"In fact"...or in theory. If this is factual can you please refer to a specific example. I'm actually quite interested to see the correlation.
bobblehead
Are you using "hockey mentality" here ?
I dont mean to demean but we have had kids from North of the border and they have that mentality--=INVINCIBLE
Are you using "hockey mentality" here ?
I dont mean to demean but we have had kids from North of the border and they have that mentality--=INVINCIBLE
quote:Originally posted by deemax:
"In fact"...or in theory. If this is factual can you please refer to a specific example. I'm actually quite interested to see the correlation.
Do some of your own searching, you'll find it.
What causes growth plate separations? More stress than the bond between the growth plate and the bone can handle. The stronger the muscle, the more stress can be exerted. Pretty basic. So being stronger does not necessarily cause too much stress. But it could be a contributor. I think that was tpg's point.
I've heard plenty of folks talk about their kid being old enough to throw the curve, as age has some correlation (albeit not perfectly exact) to the body's maturity and thus the closing of the closing of the growth plates. Can't say I've ever heard anyone ask if their kid was "strong enough".
quote:Originally posted by Pitcher18:
He eventually injured his elbow, and I've wondered if it may have had to do with his somewhat lower arm slot.
It shouldn't have.
Pitcher18 I can't remember which books I read way back then but every year I took out the pitchers edge to read. It is a computerized break down of pitching mechanics by Tom House and Nolan Ryan. My son carries a book "Everything you need to know about pitching "by Louisville Slugger. I am not sure if that is the exact title but it was a great book for all levels of pitchers.
This is not a discussion of right or wrong. It is a a collection of views and experiences. The truth is 1 bad pitch can put you under the knife. If you teach the CB to young kids do not teach the ML CB (Tomahawk). This is only for stroger well conditioned pitchers and my son did not use it until he was 16 or so. It is a much more stressful motion than the LL CB.
This is not a discussion of right or wrong. It is a a collection of views and experiences. The truth is 1 bad pitch can put you under the knife. If you teach the CB to young kids do not teach the ML CB (Tomahawk). This is only for stroger well conditioned pitchers and my son did not use it until he was 16 or so. It is a much more stressful motion than the LL CB.
TR my son has never played hockey.
David Davidson (40 man Pirates roster) says he attributes hockey with his success in pitching. I am from a hochey area but I personally have not followed it. Ted Nolan is a personal friend so do you want a Team signed Ball cap.
David Davidson (40 man Pirates roster) says he attributes hockey with his success in pitching. I am from a hochey area but I personally have not followed it. Ted Nolan is a personal friend so do you want a Team signed Ball cap.
****le
I didnt say he did---stay with what is posted---do not twist it---I talked about hockey mentality---playimg thru pain---in baseball that can be fatal
I dont know Ted Nolna so why would I want a hat from him---in fact I do not have a collection of hats--I have a collection of memories --they take up less space in the house
I didnt say he did---stay with what is posted---do not twist it---I talked about hockey mentality---playimg thru pain---in baseball that can be fatal
I dont know Ted Nolna so why would I want a hat from him---in fact I do not have a collection of hats--I have a collection of memories --they take up less space in the house
texin
Really, because I honestly feel that the correlation of a kid being strong enough and old enough go hand in hand....Is it a fluke that this age group (16-17) has their growth plates close at the same time these kids get stronger? IMO strength matters the most.
I refered to measuring growth plates vs. being strong enough... I to have heard people wonder if their son is old enough to throw a curve. I have also heard people wonder if their kid was strong enough.... I guess Im just wondering what your point is.
quote:I've heard plenty of folks talk about their kid being old enough to throw the curve, as age has some correlation (albeit not perfectly exact) to the body's maturity and thus the closing of the closing of the growth plates. Can't say I've ever heard anyone ask if their kid was "strong enough".
Really, because I honestly feel that the correlation of a kid being strong enough and old enough go hand in hand....Is it a fluke that this age group (16-17) has their growth plates close at the same time these kids get stronger? IMO strength matters the most.
quote:I've heard plenty of folks talk about their kid being old enough to throw the curve, as age has some correlation (albeit not perfectly exact) to the body's maturity and thus the closing of the closing of the growth plates. Can't say I've ever heard anyone ask if their kid was "strong enough".
I refered to measuring growth plates vs. being strong enough... I to have heard people wonder if their son is old enough to throw a curve. I have also heard people wonder if their kid was strong enough.... I guess Im just wondering what your point is.
quote:Originally posted by Texan:
What causes growth plate separations? More stress than the bond between the growth plate and the bone can handle. The stronger the muscle, the more stress can be exerted. Pretty basic. So being stronger does not necessarily cause too much stress. But it could be a contributor. I think that was tpg's point.
Precisely.
You can see proof of this in the injuries kids suffer.
Up to and through 13 or 14 you mostly see growth plate problems. After 16 or so, you mostly see problems with the UCL.
The reason is that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
Until the growth plate closes at 16 (or a couple of years sooner for some, later for others), the UCL is stronger than the growth plate. So the fissure happens in the growth plate. After the growth plate closes, the weakest link in the chain is the UCL, so you start to see problems with it (e.g. Tommy John surgery).
The problem with being too strong at too young of an age is that you can generate more force than your growth plates can handle.
Tr I understand what you said. To have a hockey mentallity you have to be invoved with hockey. I don't like hockey.
My son has it burnede in his head that any pain shuts him down. His coaches always asked how he felt as do I even to this day. Some of his catcher friends no longer play ball due to arm problems. I think you have heard me say many times to know your body. He is a quiet no nonsense young man who dictates his use. me on the other hand is a different story.
Ted Nolan is the head coach of the Islanders. (Long Island)
My son has it burnede in his head that any pain shuts him down. His coaches always asked how he felt as do I even to this day. Some of his catcher friends no longer play ball due to arm problems. I think you have heard me say many times to know your body. He is a quiet no nonsense young man who dictates his use. me on the other hand is a different story.
Ted Nolan is the head coach of the Islanders. (Long Island)
quote:Originally posted by deemax:
So "development of the body" has "nothing to do with strength"????? Real strength isnt going to be obtained until your well on your way to being fully developed anyway. Saying "strength" has nothing to do with it in relation to throwing a curveball is wrong.
No, but strength is a very imprecise measurement of one's physical development. Yes they are correlated, but you're going to see ranges. Some "weak" kids will have closed growth plates and some "strong" kids will have open growth plates.
My 12YO son is starting to get quite strong (he can hurt me if he wants to) but that doesn't mean that his growth plates are closed.
Instead, it means that he's entering the danger zone (12-14) in which I have to pay particular attention to not overusing him.
Just because he CAN do something it doesn't me he SHOULD.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
My son has it burnede in his head that any pain shuts him down. His coaches always asked how he felt as do I even to this day. Some of his catcher friends no longer play ball due to arm problems. I think you have heard me say many times to know your body. He is a quiet no nonsense young man who dictates his use. me on the other hand is a different story.
I don't trust what a kid says.
If I think a kid is having pain but won't tell me, I do things like apply pressure to the Medial Epicondyle (the bump on the inside of the arm) while watching his face and looking for a wince.
It's hard to hide that kind of pain.