some guy in ga maybe my team will play yalls this spring/summer
My Son was clocked at 68 MPH last year when he was 12. It means nothing. This year he just finished up his 7th Grade Middle School season and pitched a total of 10 innings in 3 Games. He gave up 2 hits, had 20K's and no earned runs. What his trainers like about him are as follows:
1. He hides the ball well in his wind up
2. His arm is "Live"
3. His FB's have natural movement
4. He uses his lower body to the point that his arm is not stressed.
We faced kids who looked like they threw a little bit harder BUT their balls were flat and straight. This made them very hittable.
Towards the end of last year, we started to develop the "mental & strategic" part of his game which I think is not practiced enough with young pitchers. You need to learn how to keep hitters off balance. If they get too comfortable at the plate then the advantage can easily swing to the hitter. Changing speeds, throwing inside, outside & up the ladder...always keep them guessing. Also staying ahead of the batters is so important....1st pitch-1st strike. You'll wind up getting them to swing more- especially at pitches out of the zone. Most kids these days can hit heat especially as they get older. While speed is great and expected as part of your resume at the college ball level, you wont go very far if you don't take into account what I just mentioned.
1. He hides the ball well in his wind up
2. His arm is "Live"
3. His FB's have natural movement
4. He uses his lower body to the point that his arm is not stressed.
We faced kids who looked like they threw a little bit harder BUT their balls were flat and straight. This made them very hittable.
Towards the end of last year, we started to develop the "mental & strategic" part of his game which I think is not practiced enough with young pitchers. You need to learn how to keep hitters off balance. If they get too comfortable at the plate then the advantage can easily swing to the hitter. Changing speeds, throwing inside, outside & up the ladder...always keep them guessing. Also staying ahead of the batters is so important....1st pitch-1st strike. You'll wind up getting them to swing more- especially at pitches out of the zone. Most kids these days can hit heat especially as they get older. While speed is great and expected as part of your resume at the college ball level, you wont go very far if you don't take into account what I just mentioned.
quote:Originally posted by The Sundance Kid:
My Son was clocked at 68 MPH last year when he was 12. It means nothing. This year he just finished up his 7th Grade Middle School season and pitched a total of 10 innings in 3 Games. He gave up 2 hits, had 20K's and no earned runs. What his trainers like about him are as follows:
1. He hides the ball well in his wind up
2. His arm is "Live"
3. His FB's have natural movement
4. He uses his lower body to the point that his arm is not stressed.
We faced kids who looked like they threw a little bit harder BUT their balls were flat and straight. This made them very hittable.
Towards the end of last year, we started to develop the "mental & strategic" part of his game which I think is not practiced enough with young pitchers. You need to learn how to keep hitters off balance. If they get too comfortable at the plate then the advantage can easily swing to the hitter. Changing speeds, throwing inside, outside & up the ladder...always keep them guessing. Also staying ahead of the batters is so important....1st pitch-1st strike. You'll wind up getting them to swing more- especially at pitches out of the zone. Most kids these days can hit heat especially as they get older. While speed is great and expected as part of your resume at the college ball level, you wont go very far if you don't take into account what I just mentioned.
Welcome to the HSBBW. We've had some discussions as to what is important at certain ages. At 13 (the age of your son now)the main priority should be developing the FB. I hope that he is learning to do what you stated above primarily using his FB.
Development is important at that age, not necessarily the result.
FWIW, his stats at 13 mean nothing, neither does his velo.
JMO.
Thank you for your response and kind welcome.
My Son throws 3 pitches:
4SFB
2SFB
Circle Change Up
He is way too young to be throwing curves and sliders.
As I mentioned in my post, I do not put much value on velocity at his age. His 2 main focuses are (as you pointed out) command of his pitches and EVEN more important....PROPER MECHANICS. I've seen too many kids with arm problem due to improper mechanics.
We differ on our views of stats. While you may not put much stock in them (and that's fine), we use them for a variety of reasons....mainly as learning tools and to chart progress and point out things we need to focus on.
He has been playing very competitive travel baseball since the age of 9-which was when he walked away from little league. I'm not knocking little league but it conflicts with kids who want to progress as pitchers due to the fact that it keeps them at 46 up until the age of 12-13. My Son has been pitching from 60'6" for the past 2 years already.
My Son throws 3 pitches:
4SFB
2SFB
Circle Change Up
He is way too young to be throwing curves and sliders.
As I mentioned in my post, I do not put much value on velocity at his age. His 2 main focuses are (as you pointed out) command of his pitches and EVEN more important....PROPER MECHANICS. I've seen too many kids with arm problem due to improper mechanics.
We differ on our views of stats. While you may not put much stock in them (and that's fine), we use them for a variety of reasons....mainly as learning tools and to chart progress and point out things we need to focus on.
He has been playing very competitive travel baseball since the age of 9-which was when he walked away from little league. I'm not knocking little league but it conflicts with kids who want to progress as pitchers due to the fact that it keeps them at 46 up until the age of 12-13. My Son has been pitching from 60'6" for the past 2 years already.
quote:Originally posted by The Sundance Kid:
We differ on our views of stats. While you may not put much stock in them (and that's fine), we use them for a variety of reasons....mainly as learning tools and to chart progress and point out things we need to focus on.
He has been playing very competitive travel baseball since the age of 9-which was when he walked away from little league. I'm not knocking little league but it conflicts with kids who want to progress as pitchers due to the fact that it keeps them at 46 up until the age of 12-13. My Son has been pitching from 60'6" for the past 2 years already.
Yes we do differ, at 13 they should be having fun, they can focus more when they get to HS. It's all going to change anyway.
That's serious stuff walking away from LL at 9 because he needs to concentrate more on pitching. At 13 the focus should be on learning all positions, that serious pitcher stuff can come later on.
BTW, my son threw from the larger diamond early as well, FWIW, wish we hadn't done that until later on.
Who said he wasn't having fun? Being frustrated on the mound in LL because your field can't make simple plays isn't fun for him nor fun to watch. Why do you think Travel became so big? Little League is developmental where the focus is on the weaker players- it holds the better players back. Ironically, if this was an academic issue then it would be considered an honor moving a child up. In many towns, Little League is also very political and corrupt and subject to "Neighborhood Politics." I'm not disagreeing with the foundation of your thoughts but you must take into account that you are painting with a very wide brush. There are exceptions to the general rule. Maybe it applies to 5% of kids whether you are talking about sports or education but one shouldn't be shunned or shamed if your child is in that 5% and desires to stay competitive. He walked away from Little League because it was holding back his development. He was the best Fielder/Hitter and Pitcher in his Grade. Parents didn't want their Boys stepping in the Batters box in fear that they might get hit. He didn't walk away because he needed to concentrate on pitching and I'm sorry if I gave you that impression.
Welcome Sundance.
A couple of points that may help you. First there are so many LL and Pony Leagues that you cannot make blanket statements about the competitive level of all leagues. If yours does not fit you son then go find a place that does. I can tell you that there are some Little League players out here on the West Coast that can and do play at National levels once they get older. In my son’s HS team this year the starting 8 this year were all Little League players.
As far as your son’s development it sounds like you have things prioritized. I can tell you however no matter how good a “pitcher” your son is he will need to focus on velocity development if he wants to pitch beyond HS. At 68MPH at 12 he is fine, and in the upper norm for players his age. 13-14 age range is a good time to get him into the habit of working with bands, getting a good warm up routine and start understanding long toss and how this can help him develop his velocity. If he can pitch successfully with a good FB and CU until HS he will be just fine. Velocity also comes from good mechanics as you pointed out.
Good luck to you and your son.
A couple of points that may help you. First there are so many LL and Pony Leagues that you cannot make blanket statements about the competitive level of all leagues. If yours does not fit you son then go find a place that does. I can tell you that there are some Little League players out here on the West Coast that can and do play at National levels once they get older. In my son’s HS team this year the starting 8 this year were all Little League players.
As far as your son’s development it sounds like you have things prioritized. I can tell you however no matter how good a “pitcher” your son is he will need to focus on velocity development if he wants to pitch beyond HS. At 68MPH at 12 he is fine, and in the upper norm for players his age. 13-14 age range is a good time to get him into the habit of working with bands, getting a good warm up routine and start understanding long toss and how this can help him develop his velocity. If he can pitch successfully with a good FB and CU until HS he will be just fine. Velocity also comes from good mechanics as you pointed out.
Good luck to you and your son.
Life is different out here than in CA. Don't get me wrong, I personally think we have some real talent in the NE but it's tough to compete with States that have great weather all year round. It would make sense that your LL system would not only be more competitive but also have a higher than average overall talent level than here. After all, most kids that get drafted in the MLB come from CA, FL, TX and AZ. Here we have from Late March to Late October as a window. A Total of 7 months but only 5 out of the 7 are with temperatures of 70 and above.
We also have lost a tremendous amount of talented athletes to Lacrosse which plays during the same season. It is impossible to play both sports and kids have to choose at an early age due to the conflict.
Thank you for your kind comments on my Son. He has put a lot of time and dedication into this and we are very proud. As a Parent, it is so nice to see your children develop a passion for something...had it been Chess or Music we would still be equally as proud. Times have changed and in my experience I see too many kids who never found the desire and passion for something...anything. Parents (of which I'm equally guilty of) spoil there kids so much I think we have indirectly taken that drive away from them. There seems to be some sort of sense of entitlement.
He works very hard at his craft and I'm glad he sees and feels the results. Thanks again for your comments and thoughts, it's nice to share ideas and views.
We also have lost a tremendous amount of talented athletes to Lacrosse which plays during the same season. It is impossible to play both sports and kids have to choose at an early age due to the conflict.
Thank you for your kind comments on my Son. He has put a lot of time and dedication into this and we are very proud. As a Parent, it is so nice to see your children develop a passion for something...had it been Chess or Music we would still be equally as proud. Times have changed and in my experience I see too many kids who never found the desire and passion for something...anything. Parents (of which I'm equally guilty of) spoil there kids so much I think we have indirectly taken that drive away from them. There seems to be some sort of sense of entitlement.
He works very hard at his craft and I'm glad he sees and feels the results. Thanks again for your comments and thoughts, it's nice to share ideas and views.
I do like that you have not allowed him to throw CB or sliders. As BOF states if he can pitch successfully until HS without using the above that will be in his best interest.
Travel ball became so big because people wanted to have their kids play better competition. I understand that at 12, the defense from some LL are usually not skilled enough for some people's pitchers. And I understand that frustration leads to unhappiness which leads to attrition.
I am not really sure how skillful 12,13 year olds need to be on defense, but that is my problem.
Best of luck.
Travel ball became so big because people wanted to have their kids play better competition. I understand that at 12, the defense from some LL are usually not skilled enough for some people's pitchers. And I understand that frustration leads to unhappiness which leads to attrition.
I am not really sure how skillful 12,13 year olds need to be on defense, but that is my problem.
Best of luck.
Tracking stats, even at an early age is an important tool, both for players and coaches alike. The same goes with velocity development from one year to the next. Everyone at the ballpark wants to know what the good pitchers throw velocity wise. Any parent of a good pitcher will know what their kid throws at pretty much any age. Some will say it's not important, and while I agree to the extent of trying to project them at an early age is ridiculous, it is a good thing to keep track of as they progress through the years. Seeing a drop in velocity of a leveling off can be a very effective tool in prognosing a potential problem.
As for throwing breaking balls at an early age, I see no problems as long as the player is mature enough and is taught correctly. Hard throwing youth really need to watch their pitch outings realizing the upmost importance of not throwing too much while fatigued or even while sore or injured. Trust me, I have seen way too many sore arms from "fastballs" than any other pitch at the early age.
Little league has it's place with the lesser talented players looking for development or just for fun. LL in most any town in America will hinder the better players. It's really best for the better players to play travel competetive ball if they want to play at the next level. We walked away from LL after son played when he was 12. He was not being challenged at all and it was not good for either him or the other players.
As for throwing breaking balls at an early age, I see no problems as long as the player is mature enough and is taught correctly. Hard throwing youth really need to watch their pitch outings realizing the upmost importance of not throwing too much while fatigued or even while sore or injured. Trust me, I have seen way too many sore arms from "fastballs" than any other pitch at the early age.
Little league has it's place with the lesser talented players looking for development or just for fun. LL in most any town in America will hinder the better players. It's really best for the better players to play travel competetive ball if they want to play at the next level. We walked away from LL after son played when he was 12. He was not being challenged at all and it was not good for either him or the other players.
quote:Little league has it's place with the lesser talented players looking for development or just for fun. LL in most any town in America will hinder the better players. It's really best for the better players to play travel competetive ball if they want to play at the next level. We walked away from LL after son played when he was 12. He was not being challenged at all and it was not good for either him or the other players.
what is the next level up from LL? i've seen to many developing players, get burned out developing. play the game for what it is, have fun keep improving because you want to. you'll see players go as far as they want to go, because it's what they want.
while i'm not a big fan of the LL rules and dimensions. you can never repeat what a community of young men can achieve when working together.
at some point if your player play's long enough, he ends up playing for himself. that shouldn't be at the young age of 12. after all 12 yr olds don't get scholarships or drafted.
20dad: 
The best athletes are the ones playing in HS period. In most cases they are the ones also playing, basketball, socc er, football, etc, in their youth.
The best athletes are the ones playing in HS period. In most cases they are the ones also playing, basketball, socc er, football, etc, in their youth.
I remember when my son was 13 and we had a kid on his 13U travel team that threw the ball in the 80-82mph range. It made lots of people's mouth open wide when he threw just due to how his velocity stood out among the other kids their age.
We were playing a game against a VERY good travel team out of Atlanta and they hit him ALL over the place because all he knew how to throw was a fastball. The other teams Coach just told his boys to sit on the FB, and it worked to perfection. (this other teams boys had 4 kids who now play for UGA..lol)
During the game I saw our Pitcher look over at his Dad during the game and his Dad gave him some kind of "signal". (his Dad wasn't a coach). Apparently they were both aggravated that they were up against a team who could hit him. Next pitch, a very HARD fastball into the back of one of the batters. Made me sick to my stomach. At that moment I thought to myself that this kid may throw hard but he won't go far in the game of baseball.
By the time he was a Senior in high school, my son's school played them in a preseason game. It was the first time I had saw him since 13yrs old. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw him. He was the SAME size that he was at 13! He didn't grow another lick. He pitched a couple of innings and we raked him all over the place. Baseball was over for him after high school.
bl14, be humble young man. I said all that above to let you know that baseball is a game that can and will humble you one day if it thinks you need it. Right now you could be a head taller than other kids your age but one day all those other kids will catch you and some may pass you. Respect the special gift you have now and learn what others on here have told you - develop, not just throw, a couple more pitches to make you sick on the mound. My son use to keep 4 initials on the bill of his cap - OBOW. It reminded him to keep them OFF BALANCE, OUT OF WHACK. In other words, he learned that it was highly effective to learn how to keep the batters confused and guessing. Anyone can hit a fastball, in time, once they time it. Then what are you going to do? I think you see all of our points now.
Coach2709 said it best - Learn to be a pitcher and not just a thrower. There is a HUGE difference. And if you can learn that now at 13, you will be unbelievable by the time high school rolls around.
If your Dad or mom are really involved with your pitching, show them some of the things you've read on here so that they can begin digesting some of the "takeaways" on here to help guide you going forward.
Good luck young man.
YGD
We were playing a game against a VERY good travel team out of Atlanta and they hit him ALL over the place because all he knew how to throw was a fastball. The other teams Coach just told his boys to sit on the FB, and it worked to perfection. (this other teams boys had 4 kids who now play for UGA..lol)
During the game I saw our Pitcher look over at his Dad during the game and his Dad gave him some kind of "signal". (his Dad wasn't a coach). Apparently they were both aggravated that they were up against a team who could hit him. Next pitch, a very HARD fastball into the back of one of the batters. Made me sick to my stomach. At that moment I thought to myself that this kid may throw hard but he won't go far in the game of baseball.
By the time he was a Senior in high school, my son's school played them in a preseason game. It was the first time I had saw him since 13yrs old. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw him. He was the SAME size that he was at 13! He didn't grow another lick. He pitched a couple of innings and we raked him all over the place. Baseball was over for him after high school.
bl14, be humble young man. I said all that above to let you know that baseball is a game that can and will humble you one day if it thinks you need it. Right now you could be a head taller than other kids your age but one day all those other kids will catch you and some may pass you. Respect the special gift you have now and learn what others on here have told you - develop, not just throw, a couple more pitches to make you sick on the mound. My son use to keep 4 initials on the bill of his cap - OBOW. It reminded him to keep them OFF BALANCE, OUT OF WHACK. In other words, he learned that it was highly effective to learn how to keep the batters confused and guessing. Anyone can hit a fastball, in time, once they time it. Then what are you going to do? I think you see all of our points now.
Coach2709 said it best - Learn to be a pitcher and not just a thrower. There is a HUGE difference. And if you can learn that now at 13, you will be unbelievable by the time high school rolls around.
If your Dad or mom are really involved with your pitching, show them some of the things you've read on here so that they can begin digesting some of the "takeaways" on here to help guide you going forward.
Good luck young man.
YGD
quote:Originally posted by 20dad:quote:Little league has it's place with the lesser talented players looking for development or just for fun. LL in most any town in America will hinder the better players. It's really best for the better players to play travel competetive ball if they want to play at the next level. We walked away from LL after son played when he was 12. He was not being challenged at all and it was not good for either him or the other players.
what is the next level up from LL? i've seen to many developing players, get burned out developing. play the game for what it is, have fun keep improving because you want to. you'll see players go as far as they want to go, because it's what they want.
while i'm not a big fan of the LL rules and dimensions. you can never repeat what a community of young men can achieve when working together.
at some point if your player play's long enough, he ends up playing for himself. that shouldn't be at the young age of 12. after all 12 yr olds don't get scholarships or drafted.
Good stuff 20dad. Most of these folks with 13,14,15 year olds will look back and see things differently someday.
I mean seriously, I have no clue what son threw at 12,13, we knew it was hard and FWIW it meant squat. I do know he had a blast playing with his buddies and he couldn't care less if someone missed a ball or not, because that was not where the emphasis was, and THAT was in travel ball.
20dad and TPM I completely agree. My son is a 2013 and will perhaps play college ball. Right now we are in Jupiter at the USA 16u tournament. We have already had a blast this summer and last summer traveling and seeing great competition.
Regardless of what happens with baseball, college or not, I know for a fact that he will never forget, and cherish the most, his little league days. Yes, he was better than almost all, but so what. Eating after games with friends and family, bonding, and not a care in the world. Losing and then having fun. Those days are gone for the most part and I miss them. As kids get older, real life starts to rear its head and responsibility creeps in, which changes the way they look at things. Playing 100% just for fun and love of the game (not for scouts, not for dad, not for a scholarship), that is what I (and I think he) will remember most.
To the OP, yes, you throw very hard for your age. But don't concern yourself with that. Enjoy the game right now for the next couple years and then you can start worrying about everything else. Just work hard along the way, keep your grades up and everything will work out. I wish you the best of luck!
Regardless of what happens with baseball, college or not, I know for a fact that he will never forget, and cherish the most, his little league days. Yes, he was better than almost all, but so what. Eating after games with friends and family, bonding, and not a care in the world. Losing and then having fun. Those days are gone for the most part and I miss them. As kids get older, real life starts to rear its head and responsibility creeps in, which changes the way they look at things. Playing 100% just for fun and love of the game (not for scouts, not for dad, not for a scholarship), that is what I (and I think he) will remember most.
To the OP, yes, you throw very hard for your age. But don't concern yourself with that. Enjoy the game right now for the next couple years and then you can start worrying about everything else. Just work hard along the way, keep your grades up and everything will work out. I wish you the best of luck!
Regarding LL vs Travel ball, I don't think this is a one size fits all topic. To me it all comes down to what the young man wants to do at that age. If he wants to play with his buddies on the LL level, he should be encourged to do so and not have pressure put on him to play a higher level game for developmental reasons.
However there are those who really enjoy the game played on bigger fields with better competition. They too should be allowed to follow their passion and not be pressued to spend time on the local fields because of social concerns.
My son fell into the latter category and we had this discussion after he finished LL when he was 10. He simply said he enjoyed playing what he called "real baseball" and thats what he wanted to do. He never looked back and has had no regrets to this day.
Everyone is different and there is nor absolute right or wrong imo but it has to be based on what the young man wants to do at that age.
Listening skills are crucial.
However there are those who really enjoy the game played on bigger fields with better competition. They too should be allowed to follow their passion and not be pressued to spend time on the local fields because of social concerns.
My son fell into the latter category and we had this discussion after he finished LL when he was 10. He simply said he enjoyed playing what he called "real baseball" and thats what he wanted to do. He never looked back and has had no regrets to this day.
Everyone is different and there is nor absolute right or wrong imo but it has to be based on what the young man wants to do at that age.
Listening skills are crucial.
12 and 13 year olds that are unhappy with results (win or loss) are that way because their folks have that attitude. JMO.
We've all seen lots of different stuff, many of the slower velocity pitchers in pro ball have all sorts of issues by the time they reach certain levels, most will admit they threw a ton of off speed when young, which resulted in a ton of pitches thrown, and most will tell you they are sorry they didn't work more on the FB when younger. So don't get into that discussion until your son moves past HS.
We've all seen lots of different stuff, many of the slower velocity pitchers in pro ball have all sorts of issues by the time they reach certain levels, most will admit they threw a ton of off speed when young, which resulted in a ton of pitches thrown, and most will tell you they are sorry they didn't work more on the FB when younger. So don't get into that discussion until your son moves past HS.
younggundad are you the youngguns from columbus? and yes sir i try to be very humble in the way i carry myself. my dad wouldnt allow anything less. but also im not just a fastball pitcher i have 4 pitches(2 seam cutter circle change and a sweeping curve)
quote:Originally posted by 20dad:quote:Little league has it's place with the lesser talented players looking for development or just for fun. LL in most any town in America will hinder the better players. It's really best for the better players to play travel competetive ball if they want to play at the next level. We walked away from LL after son played when he was 12. He was not being challenged at all and it was not good for either him or the other players.
what is the next level up from LL? i've seen to many developing players, get burned out developing. play the game for what it is, have fun keep improving because you want to. you'll see players go as far as they want to go, because it's what they want.
while i'm not a big fan of the LL rules and dimensions. you can never repeat what a community of young men can achieve when working together.
at some point if your player play's long enough, he ends up playing for himself. that shouldn't be at the young age of 12. after all 12 yr olds don't get scholarships or drafted.
LL has it's place in developing players. It's only a matter of time though when the good players stand out to the point that they need to move on. The last year my son played LL I noticed that he wasn't throwing as hard as usual (against the travel teams in his other league). He said "why should I throw harder when they can't even catch up when i throw softer?". It was purely a matter of knowing that this mentality breeds bad habits and so that was that and we never played in Rec ball again after that.
There are some on this board who think nothing at all matters until they get well into HS. There are also some on this board that believe in babying arms until they are dang near out of HS. Some even have some strange belief that throwing anything but a fastball before HS will ruin an arm.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
12 and 13 year olds that are unhappy with results (win or loss) are that way because their folks have that attitude. JMO.
We've all seen lots of different stuff, many of the slower velocity pitchers in pro ball have all sorts of issues by the time they reach certain levels, most will admit they threw a ton of off speed when young, which resulted in a ton of pitches thrown, and most will tell you they are sorry they didn't work more on the FB when younger. So don't get into that discussion until your son moves past HS.
Just so everyone on the board knows, pretty much every hard throwing professional pitcher will admit to throwing breaking balls at the youth ages, and also throwing a ton of baseball in countless games. Kind of the general rule of thumb- if you are young and blessed with a golden arm, you will pitch a lot regardless of age. Most professional pitchers when at their youth ages, were the studs on the LL or travel team and you bet- they pitched a ton of balls in a ton of games.
quote:Most professional pitchers when at their youth ages, were the studs on the LL or travel team and you bet- they pitched a ton of balls in a ton of games.
very, very true. lots of them have a zipper on the inside of their elbow, or the smiley face on their shoulder. there will always be exceptions to everything.
don't get caught up in pitching a ton, throwing (lt) will get you farther development wise.just my observation, but most kids that get tj don't throw 85. i believe they have a high velocity before the body can with hold the stress of it. just one mans opinion.
been there, seen it, done it, got the t-shirt.
To each his own.
When it's time to look in the rear view mirror (whenever that may be), I do beleive that most parents will admit they wished they had done what was right (healthwise) for their players rather than what the player wanted.
If we had always done what son wanted I doubt he would still be playing the game.
When it's time to look in the rear view mirror (whenever that may be), I do beleive that most parents will admit they wished they had done what was right (healthwise) for their players rather than what the player wanted.
If we had always done what son wanted I doubt he would still be playing the game.
quote:Originally posted by Gingerbread Man:
Just so everyone on the board knows, pretty much every hard throwing professional pitcher will admit to throwing breaking balls at the youth ages,
Really? What source is this from?
quote:Originally posted by BOF:quote:Originally posted by Gingerbread Man:
Just so everyone on the board knows, pretty much every hard throwing professional pitcher will admit to throwing breaking balls at the youth ages,
Really? What source is this from?
Yes, please do quote the source.
quote:Originally posted by igball:
He simply said he enjoyed playing what he called "real baseball" and thats what he wanted to do.
Just curious, what is "real baseball" at 10?
Now don't get me wrong, son moved to bigger field pretty early, but I don't think that made any difference as to what happened later on. He was big, he threw hard, that was part of the decision. Not because he "wanted". We are talking about pitchers now, is it always a good move to move young pitchers to the bigger field early? It should probably be when they are developmentally ready, not because the want to play "real baseball", wouldn't you agree?
My point is, I think a lot of kids aren't in the game anymore, because they got to do what they wanted.
JMO.
Your not going to stop your son from being a professional baseball player by making a decision on what level to play at 10 years old. No more than your going to make him one by a decision like this at 10 years old.
Let his love of the game and desire to play the game drive the process. All the other stuff will fall into place as you go through the journey.
Let his love of the game and desire to play the game drive the process. All the other stuff will fall into place as you go through the journey.
quote:Originally posted by Coach_May:
Your not going to stop your son from being a professional baseball player by making a decision on what level to play at 10 years old. No more than your going to make him one by a decision like this at 10 years old.
Let his love of the game and desire to play the game drive the process. All the other stuff will fall into place as you go through the journey.
Good point. Just let your kids be kids and have freakin fun and let the rest take care of itself. Stop worrying about if they throw too hard or not hard enough, or are they missing out not playing better teams when younger because it might stunt their development.
The subject of this topic proves to me (by a young player) that when a 13 year old has to come asking if 80-83 is fast for his age group, there's been too much emphasis placed on what is not important at that age.
JMO.
quote:Originally posted by BOF:quote:Originally posted by Gingerbread Man:
Just so everyone on the board knows, pretty much every hard throwing professional pitcher will admit to throwing breaking balls at the youth ages,
Really? What source is this from?
There is no book with a list of names- as far as I know. However, pretty much every professional pitcher who i have heartd in interview on if they pitched breaking balls before entering HS all agreed they threw some type of breaking ball prior to entering HS (youth).
Let's be real honest here. Everyone knows that pretty much every pitcher entering HS knows how to throw a breaking ball. Where and when did they learn it? Playing youth baseball- it's the facts- it's how it is in every country that plays baseball- it's the basic facts o fit.
If one were to notice that when the LLWS is on TV, pretty much 90% or higher of the pitchers throwing, throw a breaking ball. That is just a small sample of what is happening in every smallville youth league in the enire country and the world alike. So much emphasis has been placed on youth throwing breaking balls that I often think the main point of youth baseball injury is overlooked- that being "overuse". It is good to see organizations now going off the hard data and instituting pitch counts and rest periods for youth arms that "do" get overused.
So while perhaps there are a few individuals who are blinded by some misconception about youth injury and breaking balls, the vast majority of us are now realizing and know that injury in youth arms are not the cause of throwing breaking balls but in fact is due almost entirely to "overuse".
quote:Originally posted by TPM:quote:Originally posted by Coach_May:
Your not going to stop your son from being a professional baseball player by making a decision on what level to play at 10 years old. No more than your going to make him one by a decision like this at 10 years old.
Let his love of the game and desire to play the game drive the process. All the other stuff will fall into place as you go through the journey.
Good point. Just let your kids be kids and have freakin fun and let the rest take care of itself. Stop worrying about if they throw too hard or not hard enough, or are they missing out not playing better teams when younger because it might stunt their development.
The subject of this topic proves to me (by a young player) that when a 13 year old has to come asking if 80-83 is fast for his age group, there's been too much emphasis placed on what is not important at that age.
JMO.
Kids and parenst alike will always worry about velocity in some degree. The OP presented a question that was rather baited to begin with. I think we would both agree that any 13 year old would already know for a fact that throwing 80-83 at that age is phenomenal and means that the kid is both very mature skeletally for his age and that he is blessed with a natural ability. He would thus not need to ask if that was a good velocity for that age- that is a forgone conclusion. It would also be a forgone conclusion for him to question it in the first place- I mean, probably no one ever told him he throws "soft" for his age. No, I could bet if he really does throw that fast, he is going to have quite some noteriety in his community he lives in for being a "flame-thrower".
I do agree that velocity at the youth age is pushed quite hard. But I would tend to belive that mostly it is the kids themselves that push the issue harder than the parents. The competetive nature of kids themselves is what pushes them and drives them to try to outdo each other. Hardly ever is it solely a "parent" bragging rights issue that pushes kids. I can recall way too many a time when kids threw in front of a gun and it turned into a personal contest between them to outdo each other.
Given, a velocity at age 12-13 doesn't mean a whole lot in the overall perspective of things, at least for parents, but try telling that to kids who congregate themselves aroung the "gun" whenever it shows up at a game! Velocity for kids pretty much means everything, at least to them, at that specific time and moment. It's often the parents that get dragged into their kids excellence, not the opther way around.
GBM,
There is no argument that velocity is very important, it's just when it really does become more important is the issue.
I am not going to get into the use of the radar gun, because what the heck is it doing showing up at 12 and 13 year old games anyway?
Of course when you bring the gun out, they want to see results, so don't bring it out and don't blame it on the kids. Hasn't Dr. Andrews commented about that?
We've also been through the bb discussion on several occassions, no need to get into that, this was about a 13 year old throwing 80-83. But FYI, most have never said that a young pitcher should not throw a bb (though I don't necessarily agree) before a p reached HS, most of the discussions have been on frequency of them thrown.
There is no argument that velocity is very important, it's just when it really does become more important is the issue.
I am not going to get into the use of the radar gun, because what the heck is it doing showing up at 12 and 13 year old games anyway?
We've also been through the bb discussion on several occassions, no need to get into that, this was about a 13 year old throwing 80-83. But FYI, most have never said that a young pitcher should not throw a bb (though I don't necessarily agree) before a p reached HS, most of the discussions have been on frequency of them thrown.
BL14 - You probably got more than you wanted with this thread and I'll admit that I only looked at the beginning and the end (so I mised the middle).
I'll offer you this:
1.) If you get guys out with your fastball, keep throwing it until they hit it.
2.) In the meantime, develop a change up so the first kid who hit's that fastball has a second pitch to think about next time up
3.) Don't believe radar guns. It isn't about the number, it's about the pitch
4.) Learn how to pitch, hit spots, mix speeds (even if just FB/CU) and learn how to get guys out. Learn how to look at them in the box and know immediately what pitch they can't get to. When you do that, the velocity will project, you'll also initially acquire the "crafty" title. As you improve velocity, you'll be a "crafty guy with velocity" which hopefully will ultimatly provide an education at the school of your choice.
5.) Find out what your HS varsity coach expects from an underclassman pitcher and prepare yourself to deliver it. Pitching varsity early will only help with your exposure and realization of #4.
6.) If your arm hurts, stop pitching. You can only hurt yourself longer term. Nobdoy cares what you do when you're 13. Everybody cares when you're 17, unless you wow them at 16. If you seriously hurt that arm at 13, the rest of this discussion is mute.
7.) Find yourself a good pro-scout / club team and pitch for them. Ask your dad to count innings and only allow you to throw 100/yr for the next couple of years. Let your HS coach have what he wants and use the rest for you.
8.) Keep us all advised on your progress, we all live vicariously through young stud pitchers.
9.) Don't let this stuff go to your head. It's just advice and is worth what you paid for it ($0).
I'll offer you this:
1.) If you get guys out with your fastball, keep throwing it until they hit it.
2.) In the meantime, develop a change up so the first kid who hit's that fastball has a second pitch to think about next time up
3.) Don't believe radar guns. It isn't about the number, it's about the pitch
4.) Learn how to pitch, hit spots, mix speeds (even if just FB/CU) and learn how to get guys out. Learn how to look at them in the box and know immediately what pitch they can't get to. When you do that, the velocity will project, you'll also initially acquire the "crafty" title. As you improve velocity, you'll be a "crafty guy with velocity" which hopefully will ultimatly provide an education at the school of your choice.
5.) Find out what your HS varsity coach expects from an underclassman pitcher and prepare yourself to deliver it. Pitching varsity early will only help with your exposure and realization of #4.
6.) If your arm hurts, stop pitching. You can only hurt yourself longer term. Nobdoy cares what you do when you're 13. Everybody cares when you're 17, unless you wow them at 16. If you seriously hurt that arm at 13, the rest of this discussion is mute.
7.) Find yourself a good pro-scout / club team and pitch for them. Ask your dad to count innings and only allow you to throw 100/yr for the next couple of years. Let your HS coach have what he wants and use the rest for you.
8.) Keep us all advised on your progress, we all live vicariously through young stud pitchers.
9.) Don't let this stuff go to your head. It's just advice and is worth what you paid for it ($0).
Don't get too excited until he hits 90.
The train could stop at any moment.
We're living through this now. Keep working hard. Enjoy the ride.
The train could stop at any moment.
We're living through this now. Keep working hard. Enjoy the ride.
jmoff is there a website for finding pro scout teams?
Not that I know of, it depends on your area and given that you're in GA and I'm in AZ, I can't hook you up directly.
Around here, the Angels & Diamondbacks are big. I don't know about your area.
I'll offer you this; as a dad, I didn't know anything about this stuff. Son and I didn't have to go looking, they found us. If that hasn't worked just yet, google "pro scout baseball georgia" and variations on that until you find something about a tryout / opportunity.
My son was "noticed" in summer ball before his freshman year by his HS coach where he advanced from freshman ball to JV ball to Varsity ball in about a week. His HS coach hooked him up with the pro-scout team and things took off from there.
Keep pitching well and they'll find you...
Around here, the Angels & Diamondbacks are big. I don't know about your area.
I'll offer you this; as a dad, I didn't know anything about this stuff. Son and I didn't have to go looking, they found us. If that hasn't worked just yet, google "pro scout baseball georgia" and variations on that until you find something about a tryout / opportunity.
My son was "noticed" in summer ball before his freshman year by his HS coach where he advanced from freshman ball to JV ball to Varsity ball in about a week. His HS coach hooked him up with the pro-scout team and things took off from there.
Keep pitching well and they'll find you...
Do pro scouts have teams for 13 year olds?
Someone clue me in, not aware they exist for that age group.
Someone clue me in, not aware they exist for that age group.
TPM - I am sure you know more about this (whether pro scouts have teams for 13 year olds) than anyone else. However some kids like to learn as much as possible about the game, even if it is not applicable to their age. You offer some very good advice on here but just once (or twice) fight the urge to establish your superiority and give the kid the benefit of your doubt.
TPM there is a whole cottage industry of "scout" & "select" teams for 13and 14YO's that pro scouts and former pro players are trying to leverage into $$ in their pockets. Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with trying to make a living, but "buyer beware" applies. IMO: Save your money...
For anyone not aware....If one were to go to the PG site they would notice that showcase leagues and events happens as early as 13-14 yerars of age. They even cover and project that age group players. Then, if one were to go to the USABaseball site (official olympic baseball site) they would also notice that showcasing and projecting young talent is happening also at the 13-14 year age groups. Given, most of it is showcasing youth who are advanced skeletally, but nevertheless, scouting youth at that age is happening and has been happening for years.
quote:Originally posted by Texas1836:
TPM - I am sure you know more about this (whether pro scouts have teams for 13 year olds) than anyone else. However some kids like to learn as much as possible about the game, even if it is not applicable to their age. You offer some very good advice on here but just once (or twice) fight the urge to establish your superiority and give the kid the benefit of your doubt.
Excuse me, I didn't know so I asked the question, do scouts have teams as early as 13 for players?
GBM is right they are scouting kids a lot earlier these days, why, IMO...$$$$$. I agree with BOF, save your money, and thanks for the answer.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:quote:Originally posted by Texas1836:
TPM - I am sure you know more about this (whether pro scouts have teams for 13 year olds) than anyone else. However some kids like to learn as much as possible about the game, even if it is not applicable to their age. You offer some very good advice on here but just once (or twice) fight the urge to establish your superiority and give the kid the benefit of your doubt.
Excuse me, I didn't know so I asked the question, do scouts have teams as early as 13 for players?
GBM is right they are scouting kids a lot earlier these days, why, IMO...$$$$$. I agree with BOF, save your money, and thanks for the answer.
I have a sister who teaches cello lessons to kids- yes even "youth", they could wait till they are older and more stronger to actually support the cello and put in honest time learning and understanding the art. But, they start younger to get more knowledge and become better.
How is that any different than the art of learning baseball?
I have a friend that started swimming lessons at a very young age (3-4) and was being trained professionally by the time he was about 10 yrs. old. He has set many local records now as a teenager. Perhaps he could have started at an older age, who knows.
The bottom line is there is a level of baseball out there now for little Johnny to progress regardless of the age they begin playing the sport.
Personally I have no desire in showcasing kids until HS, but that is my own opinion and then again- I don't really have a baseball prodigy kid to show off either. Perhaps there is a place for those earliy maturers to showcase their phenom talents at such a young age... and I say go ahead and let them
