I am a firm believer in not coaching a 10 year old to be a good 10 year old player. But teaching a 10 year old to play the game like a 14 year old. In other words I don't want my freshman to play like freshman. I want them to play like Jr's or Sr's. How are you supposed to stand out playing against 10 year olds playing like a 10 year old? For the players that aspire to be very good players the goal is not to be average. The goal is not to be where everyone else is. The goal is to be the best. The goal is to be ahead of everyone else and stay ahead of everyone else.
Teach them as much as they can handle and when they have a grasp on that reach higher. There is no reason you can not teach a 10 year the mental aspects of being a pitcher and not a thrower. There is no reason you can not teach them how to pitch at a higher level than other 10 year olds.
I am talking about teaching and coaching to the ability and talent level of the player and not the actual age of the players. If a kid can do algebra in the 4th grade and has mastered basic math do we really think were helping them achieve by not coaching or teaching to the level they can handle? If you have a kid who has the talent of a 14 year old and the mental make up baseball wise of a 14 year old but is 10 years old your killing him if your coaching him like a 10 year old.
"I do not want you to play like 16 year olds against other 16 year olds. I want you to play like 18 year olds against other 16 year olds. And then you will dominate your competition." Playing to the level of your competition and working to be at the same level of your competition is a recipe for average. Average is failure unless your in the big leagues imo. "For the player that has the ability, talent and work ethic to do more." JMO I hope I didn't go too far off topic here.
AMEN! Coach May. AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Coach May, how could you? You might upset their self esteem. 
so i am about to be 14 and my dad and i were talking about the team i was going to play on this fall(14u) and i asked him if i could move up a age group or two. he said that i should wait another year before doing so.
do yall think i should wait a year or try moving up this year?
another problem is i think most tryouts are already over with for fall baseball.
do yall think i should wait a year or try moving up this year?
another problem is i think most tryouts are already over with for fall baseball.
b14: Your Dad is a smart man. Unless you are an early maturer stay at 14U. At 15-16 kids start to hit puberty and get much bigger and stronger. Have fun with your friends you have plenty of time
quote:Originally posted by bl14:
so i am about to be 14 and my dad and i were talking about the team i was going to play on this fall(14u) and i asked him if i could move up a age group or two. he said that i should wait another year before doing so.
do yall think i should wait a year or try moving up this year?
another problem is i think most tryouts are already over with for fall baseball.
It depends. Do you know your biological age?
Why do you play baseball?quote:Originally posted by bl14:
so i am about to be 14 and my dad and i were talking about the team i was going to play on this fall(14u) and i asked him if i could move up a age group or two. he said that i should wait another year before doing so.
do yall think i should wait a year or try moving up this year?
another problem is i think most tryouts are already over with for fall baseball.
Low finish I turn 14 in two days
Ndd what do you mean?
Ndd what do you mean?
Why do you play baseball? It's a simple question. But a very important one.
i play baseball because its my passion/life. if i couldnt play baseball anymore i dont know what i would do. its been my dream to pitch in the MLB since i was 7.In many ways im at my happiest when im pitching!
does that answer the question ndd?
does that answer the question ndd?
quote:Originally posted by bl14:
Low finish I turn 14 in two days
Ndd what do you mean?
That would be chronological age. Biological age is determined in a different way. This is a form that Mike Marshall (former Cy Young winner) uses.
http://drmikemarshall.com/ChapterFour.html
Ask your father to read this and help you determine your biological age.
How tall are you at the moment?
low finish im currently 5'8" 5'9" with shoes.
but i did it myself i got 15.3 for both
but i did it myself i got 15.3 for both
quote:Originally posted by bl14:
low finish im currently 5'8" 5'9" with shoes.
but i did it myself i got 15.3 for both
I'm impressed.
Ok, so now you should take a video of yourself pitching (off a mound at a local park is preferable).
There are a lot of good, intelligent guys here who know a lot about pitching. Put it up and they'll do their best to evaluate you.
At your age, I wouldn't pitch too much. Your growth plates haven't fully closed yet, and you could do severe damage to them. Learn to pronate every pitch (I'm not a Marshall guy, but this is one of his good points).
What do you have as your pitch selection (regular stuff, not stuff you throw at practice or with your buddies)
Lowfinish I have 4 pitches right now (2 seam cutter circle change and a sweeping curve) I do have a 4 seam but I don't throwing it because its straight
quote:Originally posted by bl14:
Lowfinish I have 4 pitches right now (2 seam cutter circle change and a sweeping curve) I do have a 4 seam but I don't throwing it because its straight
2-seam: this is usually a pronated pitch (If it sinks)
Cutter: Most cutters are supinated. If you throw a pronated one (which very few people do) dump it. Learn the screwball instead.
Circle change: Usually pronated. Some guys don't like it and say that good hitters hammer them. If you use it correctly, it's a great pitch.
Curve: If you aren't supinating this, I'll eat my hat. Learn to pronate your curve. Throw Marshall's Maxline Curve, do whatever it takes to pronate it. If you can't pronate it, dump it.
4-seam fastball: Your saying that it doesn't move indicates that you don't pronate it. Learn to pronate your fastball. Grip it like Bob Feller did (with your two fingers together) and pronate it.
Any other questions, PM me. I don't want to make your thread into a forum about Marshall (or anyone else)
bl, just keep doing what you're doing. Sheesh. Just try to get faster every year.
sorry low finish but im gonna stick with what im doing like sultanofswat said because my arm has only been sore once and that was after a 7 inning no hitter
quote:Originally posted by bl14:
sorry low finish but im gonna stick with what im doing like sultanofswat said because my arm has only been sore once and that was after a 7 inning no hitter
Do whatever you want. If you're successful with it, then it works. However, you need to understand that you will become less flexible with age and that your tendons and ligaments will become more susceptible to injury.
For now, limit your innings and focus on learning some pitches that engage the Pronator Teres muscle (in order to limit the load on your Ulnar Collateral Ligament)
If I had someone throwing these words at me when I was 14 I don't know what I would have done 
Soupiate:
Pronate:
Pronate:
quote:Originally posted by bl14:
i play baseball because its my passion/life. if i couldnt play baseball anymore i dont know what i would do. its been my dream to pitch in the MLB since i was 7.In many ways im at my happiest when im pitching!
does that answer the question ndd?
Yes. The first thing you need to understand, and I know it's hard, is that at the end of the day baseball is a game, not life.
Having said that, have you done the things, the work, to be ready to play up?
If so, do you understand how this will go if you do play up? Do you understand that you will not play much if at all? Are you willing to subvert your ego and accept what will happen?
quote:Originally posted by BOF:
Soupiate:
Pronate:
Supination: Make a fist. Turn your thumb up using a clockwise motion. You're supinating.
Pronation: Make a fist. Turn your thumb down using a counter-clockwise motion. You're pronating.
Quarterbacks have a pronated release (which is why they don't need Tommy John surgery). Sure, they get injured because of occupational risks (mainly, 275 lb linebackers hitting them)
Most pitchers (there are exceptions) have a supinated release. This increases the load on the UCL during the acceleration phase. This is a large part of why pitchers need Tommy John surgery (there are other factors, but lets ignore them for now).
Pitchers who have a pronated release tend to last longer. Examples: Tom Seaver, Nolan Ryan, Mike Marshall, and Tim Lincecum (there are many more, I just don't want to list them)
quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:
Most pitchers (there are exceptions) have a supinated release.
Put down the bong.
quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:
Most pitchers (there are exceptions) have a supinated release.
Put down the bong.
What do you mean? Implying that I must be crazy because I support a handful of Marshall's ideas?
pitched saturday. 0 earned runs, no walks, 12 so, 73 pitches
6 innings
Maybe he can read all of Marshall's stuff and lose 10 MPH!quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:quote:Originally posted by bl14:
Low finish I turn 14 in two days
Ndd what do you mean?
That would be chronological age. Biological age is determined in a different way. This is a form that Mike Marshall (former Cy Young winner) uses.
http://drmikemarshall.com/ChapterFour.html
Ask your father to read this and help you determine your biological age.
How tall are you at the moment?
Marshall can't write a sentence without it becoming a doctoral thesis. So much is lost in the translation I fear trying to emulate the man is a matter of interpretation. Pitching shouldn't be like that. Pitching should be simple, at least at the youth ages.
Find a solid, qualified pitching instructor that can work with your son on one--and at most two--things at a time. Start with balance.. it is the key to all the other variables in pitching.
Find a solid, qualified pitching instructor that can work with your son on one--and at most two--things at a time. Start with balance.. it is the key to all the other variables in pitching.
quote:Originally posted by Bum:
Marshall can't write a sentence without it becoming a doctoral thesis. So much is lost in the translation I fear trying to emulate the man is a matter of interpretation. Pitching shouldn't be like that. Pitching should be simple, at least at the youth ages.
Find a solid, qualified pitching instructor that can work with your son on one--and at most two--things at a time. Start with balance.. it is the key to all the other variables in pitching.
He has admirable objectives, but he over complicates the process. Most people who try are often left wondering "What the hell does that mean" or become frustrated and give up completely. However, the video that he provides on his site is pretty explanatory and helps clarify what he means.
quote:Originally posted by ncball:
Maybe he can read all of Marshall's stuff and lose 10 MPH!
Untrue, there are hybrid Traditional/Marshall pitchers who are pitching in the minors. One of them was trained by a man who was banned from this site. The guy was gunned as throwing 97 MPH. Is that all because of the Marshall mechanics? No, he likely has a high percentage of fast-twitch fibers. I feel that the upper-half mechanics and training that Marshall advocates may help velocity.
quote:Originally posted by Bum:
Pitching should be simple, at least at the youth ages.
Marhall perfect example of people losing interest because he makes things too complicated.
Low,
Everyone knows that there are some pitchers that use Marshall's tenants, whether they are truely his is debatable.
quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:quote:Originally posted by ncball:
Maybe he can read all of Marshall's stuff and lose 10 MPH!
Untrue, there are hybrid Traditional/Marshall pitchers who are pitching in the minors. One of them was trained by a man who was banned from this site. The guy was gunned as throwing 97 MPH. Is that all because of the Marshall mechanics? No, he likely has a high percentage of fast-twitch fibers. I feel that the upper-half mechanics and training that Marshall advocates may help velocity.
Yep, there is that guy. First of all, as you mentioned, he is not a total Marshall guy. Marshall himself will not acknowledge the kid as a Marshall guy because of this. For Marshall, it is all or nothing. Even the guy he trained with has said that he has not been effective or been called up because he is has strayed from the Marshall way. He will be training under that guy again during the off season. We'll see if he's still throwing 97 then. Maybe he will, I don't know. I know this, if you watch video of him, he looks nothing like a Marshall guy. Looks pretty traditional. My personal feeling is that he goes back to the more traditional motion because he can't get the high velocity with the total Marshall mechanics. I could be wrong, I don't know his mind, but I'm sure there is a reason he abandons the Marshall way once he gets on the bump and actually has to perform. I know the Marshall guys would say it's because he is forced to abandon the mechanics by the traditional baseball world, but I think if he was totally effective and had the velocity, they wouldn't try to totally change his delivery. Just my 2 cents.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
Low,
Everyone knows that there are some pitchers that use Marshall's tenets, whether they are truly his is debatable.
Many of them are, but some of them were taken from successful pitchers when Marshall was young. The pendulum swing isn't new, it's just he was the first one of note to teach it. Pronation has been around for a while, but it often is involuntary pronation. Some of the "Injurious flaws" that he talks about I don't see as big problems. Other flaws need to be fixed immediately.
quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:quote:Originally posted by TPM:
Low,
Everyone knows that there are some pitchers that use Marshall's tenets, whether they are truly his is debatable.
Many of them are, but some of them were taken from successful pitchers when Marshall was young.
But he claims that they are his.
Either way we haven't had any of that Marshall stuff discussed here in a while and it's been a good thing, JMO.
My 13 yr old is throwing 98 mph at 30 ft and I want to know how to increase his velocity even more. 
quote:Originally posted by tradosaurus:
My 13 yr old is throwing 98 mph at 30 ft and I want to know how to increase his velocity even more.
Try to get even closer.
