Just interested to get a parents thoughts on what your expectations are for this age group? What would you like to see offered for this age group, that isnt, or is hard to find? Winning or development?
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I'm just outside the target (son is 16), but this is a very important question, not just at 13-15, but all the way up.
In talking to a number of college recruiting coaches, they are less impressed by the teams that grab players from all over the US to just play tournaments because, unless the kid does so on their own, the recruiter sees no improvement (development) from 14 to 15, 15 to 16 and on up.
In my view, for those looking to play baseball seriously, development should be the primary goal no matter the age.
I've already been through this with a softball player and a baseball player. I was an assistant in softball and the head coach for baseball. In each age group the objective was to secure quality local players. Then provide quality instruction and development. As a combination of the two the teams were very competitive. Winning at a competitive level is an important part of development. So is failure and overcoming it.
Development leads to winning. Pick good kids and good parents who can understand the ultimate goal. Support all of the kids.
28diamond posted:Just interested to get a parents thoughts on what your expectations are for this age group? What would you like to see offered for this age group, that isnt, or is hard to find? Winning or development?
As a 14u parent I can say it isn't hard to find a team that will win everything, they play in tourneys 2 levels below where they are and run rule other teams in the final game. Those teams are boring.
Expectations:
-To have fun while learning proper baseball fundamentals.
-To have the coach spend practice time training every kid on the team to pitch so they don't have to use the same 3-5 kids every freaking tourney
-To have 3 or more catchers so, again, there isn't overuse.
-To have the coach EXPLAIN, at least sometimes, to the players what his thought process is. Not so they can second guess or judge him, so that the players start to really understand baseball.
-A coach may mix and match rosters....if you were selected for the A team and are not performing a person from the B team may come up and take your spot and you go to the B team until you pull you get your mojo back.
-For a player to have 2 or more regular positions
-For a player to actually earn their spot by working hard in practice and during games.
-For a coach to treat pool-play as a place to try out new things.
-To play at least one PG event (I'm in GA, Lakepoint is like 20 minutes away it's just silly not to play at least one)
-I expect the coaches to be upfront about pick-up players...if a hot shot player from KY wants to play this weekend are you going to take him up on it and bench one of the kids that has been with you for months and paid full price?
Hard to find:
-A team that offers winter baseball specific speed and agility training.
-A team that lays out the plans for outside development and what a kid should be working on at home.
-A coach that will stick to his guns. Very tired of seeing the coaches who tell a player one minute that due to his lack of effort in practice he is sitting out today's game only to call in that same kid during the 5th inning because the "team needs" that kid to pitch.
-A coach that cares more about development than the win.
-A coach willing to forfeit the championship game because he's out of pitching and he knows it.
In my mind its pretty simple, learn to play the game and have fun. Both my sons are past that age by a number of years. But knowing everything I have learned over the years, here is what I would want.
-A program that places an emphasis on playing the game for the love/fun of it. If they kids don't love the game at this age they will stop playing
-A program that teaches respect for the game and places an emphasis on how to properly play it. No bush league stuff, no cheating to win.
-A program that is more worried about developing players then they are winning. It has been my experience that the teams that work at developing players loose more in the short term, but are highly successful in the long run.
-A program that understands these kids are still children and respects that. At this age we can start to expect adult like things from our children but they are still kids and the adults need to respect this.
-A program that has coaches and parents who understand the above. Don't need to have parents around who have a different philosophy then the program and walk around undermining the coaches.
Have fun and develop the skills to play at the next age group/level. Find a team they will play on and not sit the bench. Without the fun and the skills to move on, kids drop out or get sidelined and it's over.
I think you must play the best competition you can, my sons team played 16u and 17u local teams this Summer. We went 2-5, but the boys learned to hit low to mid 80s and how to pitch to 6'1" 185 hitters.
A program that also trains the parents on how to act. It's usually done through the kids. At 9U and up, if a coach sees a parent carrying their kids bag, kid runs laps. And so forth for other parent transgressions, parent dugout visits, etc.
A program that knows what this is for...
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Sometimes things are said and I just have to comment.
I agree with most everything said in this thread. But we see lots of teams every year. We also see and know lots of recruiting coordinators and college head coaches. They are much more interested in seeing the teams with the most talent than they are in teams that are better at developing talent.
Typically the teams that pick up talented kids from all over the country draw the largest crowd of scouts and recruiters. Now if it were their own son, they might want him to play on a team that concentrates on development. But when it comes to recruiting they are looking for those kids that have talent that is already developed. While they might favor those programs that concentrate on development, they go to the games where they are likely to see the most talent, that fits their goals.
GO44DAD,
That reminds me of something...
Years ago, there was a catcher I really liked. IMO he was one of the best prospects in the country.
He was entered in an event we were holding. One of our directors and I happened to be standing in the walkway to the park when the catcher walked in with his mom and dad.
Dad was carrying a bag, mom was carrying a bag, and the catcher walked in with nothing but a towel over his shoulder, as if he were extra important and these were his handlers. I'll be honest, it really turned me off. Fair or not, that kid lost all the good thoughts I ever had about him. It was a "what's he going to do without mom and dad" moment. In my mind he went from being a prospect to a likely failure and he hadn't even played yet that day. Mom and dad weren't helping, they were part of the problem.
He was never drafted, though he did play college baseball. Never came close to reaching his potential.
I know some would say, so what, it's all about what he does on the field. But people need to understand that there are very few that can reach the top on talent alone. And there is no shortage of talented baseball players. There are thousands and thousands of very talented players. So talented that it is difficult to determine who might be better between many players.
So most of the time it is something other than talent that ends up separating one player from another in the end.
PGStaff posted:Sometimes things are said and I just have to comment.
I agree with most everything said in this thread. But we see lots of teams every year. We also see and know lots of recruiting coordinators and college head coaches. They are much more interested in seeing the teams with the most talent than they are in teams that are better at developing talent.
Typically the teams that pick up talented kids from all over the country draw the largest crowd of scouts and recruiters. Now if it were their own son, they might want him to play on a team that concentrates on development. But when it comes to recruiting they are looking for those kids that have talent that is already developed. While they might favor those programs that concentrate on development, they go to the games where they are likely to see the most talent, that fits their goals.
And WE appreciate it when you do comment.
The thread was asking about 13-15u, shouldn't the kids still be focusing on developing then and maybe leave the "talented kids from all over the country" team for 16u-18u? Or do I have that wrong?
PG staff,
I agree, I was at 15u WWBA last week, and could not understand why parents kept bringing their kids water and Gatorade in the dugout ( and there was already water in all the dugouts), especially at LP . I saw parents caring bags and jugs for their boys. life lessons
CACO3GIRL,
I know it was initially about 13-15. And I agree that development should be most important.
However I was responding to a post by FFXFireman, earlier in the thread about college recruiters. I don't doubt what he heard college recruiters say. I just know what they do in very large numbers. And that is follow the team with the most talent, no matter how well that team develops talent. I should add, many of the top teams with players from all over the place, still help develop.
He also went on to say development is important at every age, which I agree with completely.
PGStaff posted:Sometimes things are said and I just have to comment.
I agree with most everything said in this thread. But we see lots of teams every year. We also see and know lots of recruiting coordinators and college head coaches. They are much more interested in seeing the teams with the most talent than they are in teams that are better at developing talent.
Typically the teams that pick up talented kids from all over the country draw the largest crowd of scouts and recruiters. Now if it were their own son, they might want him to play on a team that concentrates on development. But when it comes to recruiting they are looking for those kids that have talent that is already developed. While they might favor those programs that concentrate on development, they go to the games where they are likely to see the most talent, that fits their goals.
Of course they would. It only makes their job easier. Like shooting fish in a barrel.
When my son was a preteen I carried his catchers bag after summer games. He was beat. The bag probably weighted half as much as he did. I told him at 13u carry your own bag or learn a new position. He became a shortstop, then a centerfielder.
I carried my kids gear bag this weekend, why, because he just finished a game in 95+ degree heat and I couldn't love or be more proud of him for him being him, loving baseball, committing his summer to it when he could be doing anything else he wanted. Oh yeah I also painstakingly reached into the cooler and threw him another gatorade over the dugout fence when he asked for one during the game. Id do anything for him, not because hes a superstar or to good to carry his own gear, it would be a shame for someone to think otherwise.
My 2017 and I had an 8 hour drive to do last week. It was at the end of a long week and I was getting sick. I took the first 2 hour shift, then he took over. When it was time for me to drive again, he said, "Dad, I can see you're really tired and you're not feeling well. I'll drive the rest of the way. " And he did.
We do for our kids, and they learn to do for others.
OK, believe it or not, there are decision makers out there that do think otherwise. So at a certain age things change. I would say that would be HS age where it might matter the most.
I know it is common these days for parents to deliver drinks to their kid in the dugout. I'm to the point it doesn't really bother me, it happens so often. But what about the others in the dugout, how do they survive? And why can't it be planned for ahead of time, so it is already in the dugout, rather than mom or dad hand delivering it?
To most scouts and recruiters it's a bad look. Right or wrong, thoughts of spoiled, soft, catered to, pop up? Yet, it is done so often that it doesn't create as much dislike as it used to.
Carrying equipment for someone after a hard day in hot weather is different than first showing up at the park. Personally, it bothers me when I see parents carrying their sons equipment while the son is empty handed. Who carries the equipment when the parents aren't there?
None of these things are terrible, but everything that takes place is noticed by someone. And the decision makers are the ones that notice things the most. Some might not even care, but some really do care.
Based on how much of these things we see, I don't plan on being in the majority regarding my opinions. I would say this, just TIFWIW.
.....nobody has mentioned moms going into the dugout to put cool towels on the boys necks 
I haven't seen 2018 for a few weeks, now at the 2016 WS , he stays at his hotel I stay at mine.... if he needs something he will tell me.... drinks ? carrying bags ? if he's on crutches maybe....
CaCo3Girl, I was struck by several of your "expectations" as well as some of your "hard to find's". I don't necessarily disagree with many, just don't know if you fully realize what it is that you are expecting. So, some food for thought...
CaCo3Girl Posted
28diamond posted:
Just interested to get a parents thoughts on what your expectations are for this age group? What would you like to see offered for this age group, that isnt, or is hard to find? Winning or development?
As a 14u parent I can say it isn't hard to find a team that will win everything, they play in tourneys 2 levels below where they are and run rule other teams in the final game. Those teams are boring.
Expectations:
-To have fun while learning proper baseball fundamentals.
-To have the coach spend practice time training every kid on the team to pitch so they don't have to use the same 3-5 kids every freaking tourney
Do you realize how difficult it would be to train an entire team how to properly pitch? It is difficult enough to conduct effective bullpens with the regular P's while, at the same time, running efficient practices for the whole team. Now, try to train 15 pitchers. Who's going to catch all those bullpens? How will they each get enough innings to stay sharp enough to pitch effectively? If you train them all, don't you think they'll all want game innings?
-To have 3 or more catchers so, again, there isn't overuse.
I generally agree here but, you know that a player has to really want to catch. If you make a kid catch or pitch that doesn't want to, that's a good recipe for chasing them out of the game.
-To have the coach EXPLAIN, at least sometimes, to the players what his thought process is. Not so they can second guess or judge him, so that the players start to really understand baseball.
I generally agree here too and I take notes during games and we talk about things after, but here's the issue... kids don't want to sit for 1/2 hour after a game and listen to adults talk. They want to play. That's how they learn. Good coaches will find opportunities frequently to talk about things but they have to pick their spots when it will be effective. They won't meet a parent's expectations if the parent thinks it is realistic to stop and talk about every situational teaching moment and every reason behind their calls and philosophies. Same goes for teaching. There is need for explaining instruction in a way that will resonate with the player but again, too much talk and you lose them.
-A coach may mix and match rosters....if you were selected for the A team and are not performing a person from the B team may come up and take your spot and you go to the B team until you pull you get your mojo back.
I do this too. But there are tons of pitfalls associated with bouncing players between squads. Uniforms, travel logistics, lots of extra communication and sensitivity issues, etc. There can be advantages but it can really complicate things. Be careful what you wish for here.
-For a player to have 2 or more regular positions
-For a player to actually earn their spot by working hard in practice and during games.
Let's look at these two together... sometimes it has to be one or the other. If you work each player two or more positions, they will need some work at both. So, the result is that you have to spread out innings more among all the players. This isn't a bad thing but it makes it more difficult to reward the particularly hard workers with the lions share of PT.
-For a coach to treat pool-play as a place to try out new things.
Drawback - lose more and face weaker competition in championship play. Thus, not develop players to compete as well against better competition.
-To play at least one PG event (I'm in GA, Lakepoint is like 20 minutes away it's just silly not to play at least one)
Sometimes, this is easier said than done, particularly since you are discounting the teams that win everything. Many PG events are selective with teams they invite/accept.
-I expect the coaches to be upfront about pick-up players...if a hot shot player from KY wants to play this weekend are you going to take him up on it and bench one of the kids that has been with you for months and paid full price?
Another tricky situation that parents often don't understand. If there is a need to bring in an outside player (often necessitated by regular players unable to attend), you have to play him. He is helping you out in a pinch. Your regulars will continue to have opportunities other times. There are other times where the coach/team has an opportunity to improve the club with occasional guest players. Again, one could argue that playing these players helps establish the program, get more invites, add credibility, give the team more opportunity to play better competition, etc. Do they take innings from other regulars? Yup. Give and take. No clear right or wrong, depending on the philosophy of the coach/program.
Hard to find:
-A team that offers winter baseball specific speed and agility training.
Great, but that means less baseball specific work. That's why most team coaches will suggest players get that work on their own time and their own dime. Every coach/organization has a threshold of number of hours they can give. It is never enough and something has to give.
-A team that lays out the plans for outside development and what a kid should be working on at home.
-A coach that will stick to his guns. Very tired of seeing the coaches who tell a player one minute that due to his lack of effort in practice he is sitting out today's game only to call in that same kid during the 5th inning because the "team needs" that kid to pitch.
-A coach that cares more about development than the win.
-A coach willing to forfeit the championship game because he's out of pitching and he knows it.
Why would you want your coach to forfeit? I'd rather try to compete with other non-pitching players who can just throw the ball over the plate. I don't like quitters. I don't accept that from my players and I would never do that to them.
So, in summary, I am trying to help you see the other side of the coin on some of these expectations and see that what often sounds good and obvious on the surface isn't always so cut and dry.
My expectations for that age would be more like....
Provide a safe environment, a decent level of communication, people that will properly care for the club's money, teach solid fundamentals, provide fair value, a reasonable schedule that is suitable for the level of competition, and FUN.
13 to 15 is a big window. I have been down the road with a current 2017 and 2019 I am on the older edge of the headline age.
At 13 and 14 the key is development, fun and evaluating. My opinion would be they should be playing competitive localish tournaments, if you want to travel fine but it isn't needed. Skills, skills and skills, winning will come if you are practicing right and have a team of reasonable athletes.
At 15 some of the options need to be looked at, where is my son in the big picture, what does he need. Will he benefit from making a move to "better" local or even a national organization? What type of college player does he project to be? How connected to colleges is the current program. Now that he has committed quite a bit of time to the program is he happy? does he want more or is ready to say this isn't what I want?
IMO U15 typically is kind of the jump off point between going all in or thinking about going a different direction.
Cabbagedad, I've mulled over your points and appreciate your feedback, and even agree with most. There are two points I would like to talk more about.
While I realize it may be time consuming to teach the whole team to pitch I really feel it's a necessity. A 13u-15u tourney could consist of 6 games, if we assume at least 6 innings a game that is 36 innings over two days....the whole team may not be able to have a breaking curve ball or be able to place the ball on a dime but they should all be taught to throw strikes. This is something that I feel strongly should be on every coaches agenda at 13u-15u. I see it time and time again that 3-5 kids are used heavily, usually maxed out according to pitching rules EVERY SINGLE tourney, usually 12-15 tourneys from April 1 to July 15th and it ticks me off. In my opinion the team can either carry 20 kids, with 5 being PO's at age 13, or they can train all 15 they have to pitch.
Pick up players...I understand why a club would do this in the older ages but at 13u? Yes it is happening, I just want coaches to be upfront ahead of time regarding their philosophy on this. East Cobb comes to mind as being notorious for calling in a player, even at 13u this year they did it. If your team will have an open door for any hotshot to walk in and take playing time away from my kid I would like to know up front that this is how your team works and not be surprised mid-season when 10 more players show up when school ends and my kids summer is pretty much over as far as playing time. This would be a huge determining factor for me because 13u-15u I want the team to be fun, and while winning is fun, playing is more fun.
old_school posted:13 to 15 is a big window. I have been down the road with a current 2017 and 2019 I am on the older edge of the headline age.
At 13 and 14 the key is development, fun and evaluating. My opinion would be they should be playing competitive localish tournaments, if you want to travel fine but it isn't needed. Skills, skills and skills, winning will come if you are practicing right and have a team of reasonable athletes.
At 15 some of the options need to be looked at, where is my son in the big picture, what does he need. Will he benefit from making a move to "better" local or even a national organization? What type of college player does he project to be? How connected to colleges is the current program. Now that he has committed quite a bit of time to the program is he happy? does he want more or is ready to say this isn't what I want?
IMO U15 typically is kind of the jump off point between going all in or thinking about going a different direction.
Just a follow up note I had one of my boys go all in and the other go a different direction, it is not a right or a wrong situation it is just an evaluation time. By 16u the players and teams have reshuffled quite a bit.
With travel ball I had many more options with 2016 and drink and food/snack.None of them ever included hanging around the dugout.HS ball was a little different.Depending on home or away I would pack a snack or a small meal. Either way I would drop off at office in time for him to pick up.I never understood why the other parents never did same. If your kid had 1st lunch @ 10:45/11:00 and then had an away game (6 conference foes close to 1 hour +away) the kids could go from lunch to 8:00 or later with nothing.In reality the food thing I always looked at as a preformance issue. I would also drop off a 1/2 gallon igloo. Never witnessed a HS game where there was water.On the hotter days coupled with some of the longer away games Looked like the whole team shared the water when igloo got back home. Like it or not I feel its out of line for parents hanging around, giving water, whatever during game time.Two younger kids were brought up this spring.By the time season was over one of the kids parents should have been issued a uni. Would have made it alot easier on underclassman. The others really let him hear it.
At 13U my son was a MIF, leadoff hitter and rarely sat on a average Major team. He had fun. He was behind physically to a few bigger boys.
14U, he lost his MIF spot because hitters played on gameday, he started pitching- losing the MIF spot and not hitting was not fun but mound time was crucial in his development. Still behind physically/really evident.
15U He made a local travel team on reputation after a poor tryout, played there for 3.5 years and became a PO while playing some MIF/OF and pretty much hitting all the time somewhere in the lineup. He had alot of fun and made some good friends. Never was the biggest but was their #1 pitcher.
CaCO3Girl posted:Cabbagedad, I've mulled over your points and appreciate your feedback, and even agree with most. There are two points I would like to talk more about.
While I realize it may be time consuming to teach the whole team to pitch I really feel it's a necessity. A 13u-15u tourney could consist of 6 games, if we assume at least 6 innings a game that is 36 innings over two days....the whole team may not be able to have a breaking curve ball or be able to place the ball on a dime but they should all be taught to throw strikes. This is something that I feel strongly should be on every coaches agenda at 13u-15u. I see it time and time again that 3-5 kids are used heavily, usually maxed out according to pitching rules EVERY SINGLE tourney, usually 12-15 tourneys from April 1 to July 15th and it ticks me off. In my opinion the team can either carry 20 kids, with 5 being PO's at age 13, or they can train all 15 they have to pitch.
Pick up players...I understand why a club would do this in the older ages but at 13u? Yes it is happening, I just want coaches to be upfront ahead of time regarding their philosophy on this. East Cobb comes to mind as being notorious for calling in a player, even at 13u this year they did it. If your team will have an open door for any hotshot to walk in and take playing time away from my kid I would like to know up front that this is how your team works and not be surprised mid-season when 10 more players show up when school ends and my kids summer is pretty much over as far as playing time. This would be a huge determining factor for me because 13u-15u I want the team to be fun, and while winning is fun, playing is more fun.
Pitching: Only having three primary pitchers is absurd. Five isn't enough. It typically takes five games to reach the semis and six to reach the championship.
I didn't expect anyone to be a pitcher only in 13 or 14u. We had six top pitchers. We had three other kids who were pitching on their middle school team in the spring. They pitched the pool game we expected to beat the pulp out of the other team, close out the games we jumped up big and (surprise) pitch the championship.
By the championship it wasn't unusual to see the opposing team's pitching staff running on fumes. My feeling was hold the other team to four or five runs and we'll put up more. I've seen several championship games with scores like 12-10.
Guesting: I never allowed my son to guest if it meant throwing a paying player under the bus. He guested when number of available players was an issue. I expected him to start for showing up as a favor. But it made me uncomfortable if a regular was sitting on the bench. I also requested he play left and bat last. One team put him at short and lead him off. Then the grumbling (parents) started.
i had my son guest once to recruit a player away from a team. His best friend was already on our team.
Yeah, agree RJM, I left out in my post that the logical and obvious answer is you need more than five. I was just pointing out to CaCo3Girl that, for most teams/organizations, it isn't feasible to spend practice time teaching every kid on the roster how to pitch.
Your situation sounds about right, RJM. Having about six that you actively work with and knowing a few others can step on the hill and do OK.
cabbagedad posted:Yeah, agree RJM, I left out in my post that the logical and obvious answer is you need more than five. I was just pointing out to CaCo3Girl that, for most teams/organizations, it isn't feasible to spend practice time teaching every kid on the roster how to pitch.
Your situation sounds about right, RJM. Having about six that you actively work with and knowing a few others can step on the hill and do OK.
(for my son) I've always considered pitching (specifically mechanics/bullpens) something that is done outside of practices. In game sequencing, game strategy, pick offs, that's fine for the team coaches to teach.
Go44dad posted:cabbagedad posted:Yeah, agree RJM, I left out in my post that the logical and obvious answer is you need more than five. I was just pointing out to CaCo3Girl that, for most teams/organizations, it isn't feasible to spend practice time teaching every kid on the roster how to pitch.
Your situation sounds about right, RJM. Having about six that you actively work with and knowing a few others can step on the hill and do OK.
(for my son) I've always considered pitching (specifically mechanics/bullpens) something that is done outside of practices. In game sequencing, game strategy, pick offs, that's fine for the team coaches to teach.
go44dad, so you don't hold the travel team coach responsible for pitching lessons at all?
Go44dad posted:cabbagedad posted:Yeah, agree RJM, I left out in my post that the logical and obvious answer is you need more than five. I was just pointing out to CaCo3Girl that, for most teams/organizations, it isn't feasible to spend practice time teaching every kid on the roster how to pitch.
Your situation sounds about right, RJM. Having about six that you actively work with and knowing a few others can step on the hill and do OK.
(for my son) I've always considered pitching (specifically mechanics/bullpens) something that is done outside of practices. In game sequencing, game strategy, pick offs, that's fine for the team coaches to teach.
This is how it is for us as well, most things are worked on at home. Of course coaches do group instruction but not enough, if something is really wrong they will take a kid aside and work with him but if the kid doesnt get it or take it home it doesnt do much good. I would imagine you would be paying a hefty price to be on a team where the coaches do individual lessons, that would be a daily job for an entire team.
CaCO3Girl posted:Go44dad posted:cabbagedad posted:Yeah, agree RJM, I left out in my post that the logical and obvious answer is you need more than five. I was just pointing out to CaCo3Girl that, for most teams/organizations, it isn't feasible to spend practice time teaching every kid on the roster how to pitch.
Your situation sounds about right, RJM. Having about six that you actively work with and knowing a few others can step on the hill and do OK.
(for my son) I've always considered pitching (specifically mechanics/bullpens) something that is done outside of practices. In game sequencing, game strategy, pick offs, that's fine for the team coaches to teach.
go44dad, so you don't hold the travel team coach responsible for pitching lessons at all?
For me it would depend on what I was paying to be on the team. For what I pay, which is next to nothing, absolutely not.
Johhny, maybe we are talking about different things. I'm envisioning batting practice is happening in two cages, there are two kids loosening their arms near those cages by throwing the ball back and forth, and in a third cage or mound there is a coach watching each kid throw maybe 5 fastballs, 2-3 change ups, 2-3 secondary pitches. Coach critiques about foot landing facing forward, maybe the kid is doing something odd with the release, maybe he's off balance, coach talks to the kid about why this pitch missed or that pitch worked....NEXT.
cabbagedad posted:Yeah, agree RJM, I left out in my post that the logical and obvious answer is you need more than five. I was just pointing out to CaCo3Girl that, for most teams/organizations, it isn't feasible to spend practice time teaching every kid on the roster how to pitch.
Your situation sounds about right, RJM. Having about six that you actively work with and knowing a few others can step on the hill and do OK.
One of the next three was my son. So I knew a 7th pitcher was getting all the work he needed. I enjoyed watching teams/parents lick their chops when a 5'2" 13u and 5'4" 14u pitcher took the mound in a championship game. He threw hard for his size and kept the ball down. If we didn't make the championship he didn't pitch that weekend. Being a late bloomer I didn't concern myself with whether he pitched or not.
That does happen for us, but usually during winter workouts, then once we get outside it doesnt happen again. Most practices are taken up with game and position specific stuff. I agree it would be nice, but realistically unless you are practicing 4-5 times a week there just wouldnt be enough time to get to everyone.
CaCO3Girl posted:Go44dad posted:cabbagedad posted:Yeah, agree RJM, I left out in my post that the logical and obvious answer is you need more than five. I was just pointing out to CaCo3Girl that, for most teams/organizations, it isn't feasible to spend practice time teaching every kid on the roster how to pitch.
Your situation sounds about right, RJM. Having about six that you actively work with and knowing a few others can step on the hill and do OK.
(for my son) I've always considered pitching (specifically mechanics/bullpens) something that is done outside of practices. In game sequencing, game strategy, pick offs, that's fine for the team coaches to teach.
go44dad, so you don't hold the travel team coach responsible for pitching lessons at all?
The pitching coach can be responsible for showing proper grips, mechanics, how to hold runners and how to field the mound. But he doesn't have the time to reinforce it. If a pitcher had a tough weekend mechanically the pitching coach might arrange an individual week night session.
My two cents... Would be nice to get some 'coaching' from the coach. But it is not the world we now live in. Got to pay extra for that. And honestly there really is not time to solve anything in practice. You would have to have a huge staff - like 5 or 6 dads with real honest to goodness baseball knowledge and then take kids aside during practice for long one on one time. Not very practical. Eventually the kid is the captain of their own ship. It is on them to make themselves better.
Having communicated quite a bit with Coaches all over the country, as well as now starting to get out and see my 13U kid compete with & against players from all over the country, I can say that a player in the Great Lakes region has an extremely difficult time getting enough opportunities playing against top quality competition unless they are willing to travel alot far & wide. It just is what it is. the competition in Florida & California & Texas is just so much better. Even in Ohio (as just an example) it is much much better.
I would say the #1 priority for us as he goes into 14U is playing on a team that will play the best competition possible and #2 is a team that will develop him.
If he continues to progress the way he has we will likely look for him to be playing August-October of 2017 on a National level and 2018 as a 15U playing on a national 16U team. The regional stuff isn't cutting it
CaCo,
You can't get any meaningful work done with an 11 pitch bullpen. 25 minimum plus proper mound warm up. It is at least a 25-30 minute commitment per P plus you have to have another team player catching.
Most players who are the least bit serious about pitching will be seeing a P guy on their own by the time they reach HS, usually a little bit before. I make it a point to have a pitching guy on my HS staff, although not always full time. For our HS program, we schedule one or two days a week for practice to include bullpens or conduct them immediately before or after. We have them organized to where we keep our double pen going constantly with the one P coach and frequently me (HC) staying in tune and contributing with helping both P's and C's. We have a short window of pre-season time between the time arms are ramped up enough to throw meaningful bullpens and the time games begin. Once games start, it becomes more difficult to schedule bullpens properly because they need proper rest before and after game innings. Aside from the starters, you often don't know when guys will be pitching.
There are lots of other logistics issues too, like running other important team drills without the players that are the P's and C's doing bullpens (and they are usually very instrumental at other positions and needed in those other drills), including JV P's and C's, having enough other coaches to run effective multi-station practice while bullpens are going on, etc.
This year, we have a more inexperienced, undeveloped pitching than usual that we will be relying on next Spring, so we are conducting Summer BP sessions to help them with development. Dead period, club play, keeping arms in shape, finding BP catchers, keeping the volunteer P coach engaged, working around summer vacations, etc. make this challenging as well. Also, now my 9-month-per-year tiny stipend job just turned into an 11-month-per-year tiny stipend job.
Club organizations are structured a bit differently but have many of the same challenges.