2015 Hall of Fame Inductees

Biggio... 74.8% last year... It's insane that it's his 3rd year on the ballot... He should be in... 

I'm thinking Johnson, Pedro, and Smoltz are locks...

I'm thinking Piazza is not close to a lock... Though he should be in...

I think McGriff and Sheffield should be in as well...

Mussina - I can't understand how you keep a guy that is 117 games over .500 in wins out... should be in, he passes the eye and stat test to me...

I'm still on the fence on Edgar Martinez... He was really great.

What is insane is that Alan Trammell and Lou Whitaker are not already in the hall. Their numbers are comparable to other HOFs.

The writers that don't vote for Craig Biggio must be ignoring the numbers.  An argument could be made that he was one of the best second baseman ever.  And he played at three different key positions during his career.  Check out his statistics, compare them to other HOF catchers and second baseman. He even stole more than 400 bases. Those are the two positions he played the most.  Compare his numbers to HOFer Bill Mazeroski.

Definitely one of the very best in an era soiled by PEDs.  Nowhere has he been attached to that. Should have been a first ballot HOFer. How many with 3,000 hits are not in?

Bagwell should get more love.  Compare his numbers to Eddie Murray. PED suspicions is a slippery slope. 

I hate the idea of PED and glad they cleaned it up but I am on the side of Buster Olney on that one. In an era filled with the PEDsand not "illegal" in baseball.  I compare those numbers as well. i know i am in teh minority. I think Pete Rose should be in as well. Anyways my list (10) this year

Roger, Barry, Pedro, Randy, Craig, Jeff B, Mike P, Jack M, Alan T, Rafael.  in that order

If you start letting suspected PED users in with artificially inflated stats, then don't you need to look at pitchers of that era whose numbers are negatively impacted? Who's to say Schilling, Morris, Smoltz, Mussina, etc. wouldn't have more HOF worthy numbers? I am pretty much in agreement with fenwaysouth, although I would put Schilling in the got a shot category.

IMO Smoltz being in the top 100 ever in both Wins and Saves, plus over 3,000 strike outs, makes him a sure shot.

Lefty,

PED users were not only batters. Pitchers used them also.

Rafael Palmeiro tested positive for steroids. He definitely and unfortunately broke the rules... He was also not on the ballot after he received 4.4 percent of the votes in the class of 2014 voting.

Darn it Coach.  I forgot about McGriff.  You're right.  He was outstanding, and deserves heavy consideration, but the BWA only get 10 votes.   I've used my 10, so I have to go back and figure this out all over again.  

I'm not as high on Sheffield.

http://deadspin.com/hof-exit-p...-cooperst-1677518827

Bonds

McGwire

Sosa

Palmeiro

Sheffield

Piazza

Johnson

Martinez

Smoltz

Clemens

Unless MLB is going to eliminate the numbers of PED users and the records of their teams vote them in. Note the era if necessary. But vote them in. Otherwise throw out all the post WWII greenies users.

Biggio's on the list next year. Mussina, Schilling and Edgar Martinez are on the list for consideration next year. Make Pete Rose eligible as a player only. It's a joke he's not in the Hall.

I find it interesting that many would like to keep Bonds out for PEDS, but think that Bagwell & Piazza belong.  There are doubts about them as well.  It can't be both ways.  Let them all in, or don't let them all in.

I personally hate that PEDS were ever used, because it basically made it impossible for my favorite player, Dale Murphy, to make the Hall.  Prior to all of the inflated numbers, he would have had a good shot.

And yes, John Smoltz should be a First Ballet Hall of Famer. 

(I am a little bit of a Braves Homer if you haven't guessed.)

I am always baffled by the Pete Rose talk from people that want to crucify the PED guys.  There is no comparison IMO.

He broke the one rule in the game that truly matters - that nearly ended professional baseball 100 years ago.  He knew what he was doing, knew it was unacceptable and lied about it for a generation. 

Any rationalization with him and a PED guy is like putting a murderer in with speeding drivers.  The two things do not compare on any level and he should never be considered for the HOF under any circumstances.  If he does it might be enough to cause me to walk away from the game because it will have less credibility than boxing.

With that out of my system - Put Smoltz, Johnson, Biggio and Piazza in.  All of their careers started before the baseball strike in 1994 and their performance was very consistent throughout their careers.  This implies that either they were using PED's early and all the time or not at all and I think not at all.

I agree. My thought has been that MLB could stop a lot of this by having the cajones to ban for life those guys who they feel they have a strong enough case against concerning PEDs. They don't need definitive proof or a conviction (see the Black Sox). That would take a lot of the oneous off of the writers who wouldn't need to explain so much when they decide not to vote a particular player in and it would make it harder for them to ignore any players that MLB didn't think it had enough against to initiate a ban.

That's my feeling as well. They put up the numbers they put up - you can't look past it. If the Hall is about the most outstanding players "on the field" then put 'em in if they performed to that level. For those that talk about character, I say baloney. Unless you're willing to put lesser talents with exceptional character in...

You could easily include an exhibit about the era and how it tainted those records. Same goes with guys like Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose.

I couldn't disagree more. Pete Rose PLAYED the Game, the way it was supposed to be played!  He should be in the Hall as a player.

2015 HOF CLASS Locks: Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, and John Smoltz.

I'm hoping a 4th gets in as well...and I know that it's highly unlikely that FIVE will receive the needed percentage, but Mike Piazza & Craig Biggio would be on my list.

Roger Clemens & Barry Bonds were arguably the two best players of my generation...let's not forget that they won multiple Cy Youngs/MVP's prior to the Steroid era.  They should both be in the HOF, but I'm not opposed to making them wait a little.

Lastly, it's time to put Pete "Charlie Hustle" Rose in the HOF.  Come on Selig, make the move before you retire! 

I feel Johnson and Martinez are total locks and I truly hope Biggio gets in.I don't see much difference in Smoltz and Schilling. I also feel that if closers who are after all, mostly failed starters can get in then there should be a spot for the best two or three DH's of all time since it is a baseball "position". Edgar Martinez was a truly exceptional hitter. If the DH position had never existed, his bat would have kept him at third base or the outfield and he would have been no worse of a fielder than Frank Thomas or future Hall of Famer Cabrera. The DH position was there however and Seattle took advantage of it by placing him there. I feel though, just like closers, only the very most exceptional DH's should make it. If one takes away the AB's Frank Thomas and others had as DH's, then their overall numbers would not be as impressive either. So where is the cutoff?

The position of DH exists so put the very best--Edgar--in the Hall!

You and I are on the same page except I'd substitute Piazza for Smoltz in that 3 & 4 spot.  I like the idea of Clemens and Bonds sitting in "time out" for while.  Eventually, they will probably get in but there should be no rush.  As for the rest of the PED crowd, there is always next year.

Pete should be in as a player, absolutely.  I don't think Selig has the "stones" to do it.  He came up through ownership, and I don't necessarily think he sees an injustice to a player.  He'll end up kicking the can to the next commissioner. 

Making like Kreskin here:

Johnson

Martinez

Smoltz

Biggio

Piazza

What's your source on (PED) "doubts" on Bagwell and Piazza?

Take away Smoltz's 154 saves, and you're right...

http://www.metstoday.com/8374/...zza-admits-peds-use/

What is and isn't a PED and who took and didn't take is a very complicated subject. I agree with those who say the simplest solution is most fair.  Take it out of the equation, with the exception of those who have admitted use under oath.

The only problem I have with Smoltz's saves is that any dominant starting pitcher should be a good to great closer. He shouldn't get rewarded because he had to be of less value to his team for those several years.

I do feel that Smoltz is a Hall of Famer but I just don't think he is quite as great as Schilling.

How is having more saves over a 3 year period than any other pitcher in MLB being of less value????  And I do NOT think that any starting pitcher can just step in and be a closer.  Completely different skill set and mentality.  It goes to show how versatile Smoltz was.   

Randy Johnson, Biggio, Smoltz and Pedro to the Hall in 2015.

And everyone seems to agree that Pedro is a lock.  How many wins did he have compared to Smoltz?

Pedro - 219

Smoltz - 213 PLUS 154 saves

And Pedro had 3154 K's to Smoltz's 3084

I don't see how people can consider Pedro such a lock, but Smoltz on the bubble.  Smoltz's post-season record 15-4 with a 2.67 ERA.  The guy was a stud.

Smoltz was a STUD, no doubt... That's why he's a 1st Ballot HOF'er... Deservedly so!

But...

Pedro was an historic pitcher, he dominated the AL East... He was stupid-good.

Congrats to Craig Biggio, I'm happy that he squeezed in with the Three Pitchers!


In regards to Smoltz & Schilling, there numbers are similar across the board, except for that three year span that Smoltz was a Dominant Closer for the Braves. 

Pedro Martinez was the Best pitcher in baseball from 1997-2003, right in the middle of the "Steroid Era".

The good news is that none of us are arguing about the induction of Randy Johnson.

Agreed.  Pedro's peak was higher.  sub 2:00 ERA's in the "steroids saved baseball" era.

bballman,

You left out the word "dominant". I didn't say any starter although the greatest closers ever were just failed starters. Smoltz only became a closer because he had arm problems and also the save is one of the most overrated, useless stats in ML baseball.

Still I am happy for Smoltz as he was a great pitcher.

Love Smoltz, glad he got in, but Pedro's run from 97-03 was "otherworldly".

"In an era filled with the PEDsand not "illegal" in baseball."

Just to be clear, there has never been a time when PED's were not illegal in baseball.  For that matter, there has never been a time when PED's were not illegal in any part of the United States.

A rule change of more recent vintage made the ban much more specific, but there has always been a rule against use of illegal drugs.  Saying PED's were not illegal before is like saying murder by bazooka can't be considered a crime until you specifically list bazookas in the murder statute.  Too much amateur lawyering going on here.  This argument falls into the "definition of is" category, that is, someone is trying to get themselves off the hook by claiming a lack of clarity where none exists.

Not exactly. Anaebolic steroids were not made illegal to use without a prescription or to sale over the counter until 1990 when they were declared a schedule III drug. In fact, many medical organizations objected to their inclusion.

Randy Johnson's resume had it all:  Top of the heap career numbers.  Eye-popping numbers over single seasons and long stretches.  Multiple Cy Youngs.  Legendary World Series performance.  I know there's some old canard about nobody ever getting 100%, but holy crap guys, give it a rest on that.  To vote against Johnson you have to have some sort of a problem.

Pedro's career was not as lengthy, but his resume includes a decent stretch of total domination, plus he was key guy for championships.  I agree there.

Smoltz had as many wins but it took him longer to get them.  I view him as a lesser candidate than Pedro because, to be honest, for most of his career he was the # 3 guy on his own team, with the exception of the one Cy Young year.  I think his post-season performances earned him his spot, but I would not have been upset if it had taken him another year to make the cut.

Biggio should've gotten in before.  Here was a totally clean player with 3,000+ hits, a decent defender at three positions, at one time pretty decent on the bases, and a winner at times for a franchise that hasn't won often (and next to never before him or since him).  Glad he wasn't strung along any longer.

Of those who didn't get it this time, my "one man's opinion":

McGriff-- clean as a whistle in an era dominated by PED's, just shy of 500 HR's.  Among clean players, that's a HOF pedigree.  The downside is that he was such a poor defender.  Still, I can't help feeling he's getting shafted because he stayed clean, and to me, voting him in would send a great message -- a nice guy finishing first.

Piazza was also a sub-par defender, and at a position where defense typically comes first.  But as anyone can tell you, hitting for a full season while catching is tough.  When your legs are tight or worn out, it's hard to get your base under you, to drive the ball consistently.  He did it at a record level.  At some point I feel like he has to make the cut.

Schilling doesn't make it IMHO.  He had a strong stretch but not at a Pedro level.  He doesn't make up for that with an unusually long career (as with Sutton).  I think a lot of his rep comes from the inordinate attention the Red Sox get these days, with the hole bloody sock thing and all.  His tendency to shoot from the lip recklessly and inaccurately, coupled with the stains from his post-baseball problems, are going to leave him short of hero status.

Mussina is probably the closest anyone has come to the Sutton model in recent years.  Never totally dominant, just reliably very good for a very long time.  But not long enough IMHO.  Well short of Blyleven or Morris, as comparisons.

Edgar Martinez was a very strong hitter but way too much of a one-dimensional guy.  If McGriff was bad on defense, consider that at least McGriff made the starting nine; Edgar couldn't.  And he didn't put up McGriff's power numbers, either.  The only argument for Edgar is that Seattle hasn't had many guys.  That's not a good enough argument.

Raines is a tough one.  What do you do with a guy who was an A- guy for so long, even past 40?  He falls short of 3,000 hits, but maybe makes up for it with his steals.  Given what a great guy he was, my heart wishes he'd make it some day.  Maybe he falls into that Tony Perez category.

Uhhh.... How bout the fact that the #1 & #2 starters are both 1st ballot HOFers as well.  I would venture to say that on any other team, he would have been the #1 guy.  And I'm not even sure he would be considered the #3 guy anyway, especially when it came to the post-season, although all 3 were pretty darned good.

His wins are almost equal to Pedro's, but he didn't start for 3 years.  Even if he only won 10 games a year during that span, he'd be at 243 - a good way ahead of Pedro.

BTW, Pedro's career ERA - 2.94, Smoltz - 3.33.  Pedro has him, but not by a lot.

Post-Season comparison?

Pedro - 6-4 in 10 series with a 3.46 ERA

Smoltz - 15-4 in 25 series with a 2.67 ERA

Just sayin.

Certainly makes you wonder about the 3% that didn't have Johnson on the ballot. I assume they had no one on their ballot and object to hall of fames categorically.

The one that most disappoints me is Raines. To me, he just played at a high level for a long time. He was never one of the dominant players of his time. But, compared to other lf'ers, his stats are solid. For example, compare him to Gwynn and what you see is very comparable.