2016 - Rest of Summer and Fall Plan Questions

how hard does he throw? for a D3 he doesnt need to commit early. my focus for fall would be gain velo. you dont want expsoure if your not good enough.

He throws 85mph but mostly sits in the low 80s.  He has excellent offspeed (curve and change) pitches though which is probably his strength along with location.  He has not walked anyone this summer.  At the last camp he attended he faced 10 batters and struck out 5 - that was after some work on his velocity but I'm not sure what he threw there (couldn't see the gun).  

He does have some interest from D3 schools but from schools he hadn't really been considering.  

Welcome to the site.  What are his grades like?  If he is high academic with high GPA, he is a likely good fit for D3 but if not, he may be more suited toward NAIA.  Also, D3 has no athletic scholarship $ but NAIA does.  Both can provide good academic $$$.  There are some very good (and not as good) programs and leagues in both. Be sure to put appropriate weight on the academic aspect, preferred major and the many other factors in choosing a school that will be a match and not just baseball.  I'm sure you are but didn't see any references in your OP.  Also, be sure to try and have meaningful contact with coaches before attending school camps.  This can give you a good indication whether to spend the money and go before you do so. Without this contact, you are likely to find yourself wasting time and money.

There are tons of posts here that you can search as well as guidelines that will help assure you are taking the right steps.

http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/recruiting_tips.htm

Thanks for your reply and for the link.  I have been going through some of those - lots of info to look through!  

His grades are good but not great - same with his test scores.  He does take AP courses and did very well in those.  He's probably not the highest level D3 academics wise but he's a good student.  He's also nationally ranked in another sport that he just started last year (it's an olympic sport with no college scholarship opportunity) so he has a full plate that may have taken some time away from studies.  

I did a quick search on NAIA schools and most seemed to be outside the NE.  We've been focused on him being in the NE or close.  Are their NAIA programs in the northeast that I missed (that you are aware of)?

You may want to consider D2 as well.  There are some very good programs out there and the schools are generally easier to get into.  D1 can offer 11.7 baseball scholarships and D2 can offer 9 baseball scholarships.

Here is a link to the D2 baseball rankings page.  Maybe there are some northeast programs listed that you are familiar with.  You can choose between Regional Rankings, NCBWA polls and Collegiate Baseball polls.

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/b...d2/regional-rankings

Forget about D1, just not going to happen throwing low 80's touching 85 unless he is a sidearmer or has some other funky delivery. That said he would be a walk on and in danger of not making the squad. He is in good shape for D3 ball, especially going to the Headfirst camp, however he should be making a list of where HE wants to go and then contacting the schools via email with a profile before the event. This will allow the coaches to put him on their board and be looking for him.

You can find all of the D3 programs at www.d3baseball.com. They also have message boards there with info. They are not active now, but you can look through the history. 

Good luck!

Is the Patriot League out of the question?

Of the D1 schools he had been targeting 4 were Patriot League schools but it seems like he's not throwing hard enough for those either.  Those schools will be at Headfirst so he will be contacting them before to let them know he's interested in addition to the D3 schools that will be there.  I don't think they'll be interested unless he's throwing a little harder that day(s) but if he wants to contact them I'm not going to stop him - as long as he's also contacting the D3s on his list.    

Some follow-up questions for the group.  My 2016 attended HF last week and had some limited success.  He will continue to follow-up with the coaches who saw him and who he met but my question is on Fall baseball.  He has an opportunity to play on a team this Fall that has a strong record of getting players in front of scouts and a large network of coaches (based on the feedback I'm getting from the families who played on the team this summer).  I'll be speaking with the coach today.  

The costs are starting to mount up here, summer season, travel, camps, HF and now Fall ball and "advisory services".  Is it even worth it?  It seems like he should just apply to his D3 schools at this point and then show up to the college fall season and try out.  Isn't that what he'd be doing anyway if he's "recruited" by a D3 school?

The question is not the team's overall placement record, but the ability to find a D1 home during Fall ball for seniors. That's a frank discussion with the coach today.

Keeping hope alive: a pitcher from our neck of the woods just committed to a Patriot League school. The door is not shut.

Having said that, curious as to how you define limited success at the HF camp. Quite often recruiters see things that we (as parents) do not (and vice versa). HF is one of the last national stages, so if college recruiters have not given him high grades, then you may have some thinking to do. But that recruiter assessment needs to be validated.

FWIW: there are many cases where the D3 athlete makes the jump to a D1 after a successful Spring campaign.

If you search I started a thread a month or so back about making sure your kid is in the right program.  I will see if I can find it and post a link.  In general the right program can make a huge difference but you need to make sure they are providing what they are saying they provide.  Many many programs will claim to get kids into school but in reality they don't do much.  

As far as costs.  It doesn't have to be expensive.  My kids current program puts about 30 kids or so a year into college or the draft.  These are kids who are currently in the program, not kids who once played for the program.  The fees are pretty low when you consider that.  I don't say they are cheap but compared to what I hear others are paying I am getting a pretty good deal. 

Also, what do you mean by advisory services?  Are you paying someone to help get your kid recruited?  If so what is he providing that you can't do on your own?  What is his track record?  

As far as just showing up at a D3.  Don't underestimate D3 schools.  There are some very good D3 schools out there.  Some of them can be competitive with D1 schools.  In general the odds of "just showing" to a tryout and making the team can be very small at some schools.  Also, don't forget this is not HS.  Teams do not have to hold tryouts.  Or if they are forced (by state or school rules) then it doesn't mean they are looking for kids.  Heck the HC may never even show up to a tryout.  I ran track in college.  We held an "open tryout" the "first" day of practice.  Reality was no one from the actual team was at the tryout.  The only coach that showed up was a grad assistant and he had no interest in those trying out.  During the tryout the recruited and scholarship athletes were collecting their gear from the equipment room, putting stuff in their lockers and at a team meeting.  The school had a rule that forced every program to hold an open tryout.  The technically held it.

Here it is...

http://community.hsbaseballweb...86#24947073129275586

Thanks for the responses. By limited success at HF I mean that he did have interest from one school that seemed very serious - direct contact with the HC who told him he thought he'd be a good fit and could start as pitcher and in the infield as a freshman and told him (and me) that they wanted to get us out to campus for a visit.  He (the HC) then came to 2016s second game and watched again and talked to me most of the game. I looked at the roster and this team is graduating a significant portion of the team and most of them are P/Inf so he definitely needs pitchers and middle infielders. The only problem is this school is very far away so it's not really one that we would consider normally - if he wasn't under pressure (mostly his own) to find a school/team. He also has the same sort of interest from another Northeast school (pre HF camp) that basically told him the same thing (direct from HC).  That school is not in the same category academically as the school he met at HF last week and he's really not considering that one.  

He also met several HCs at HF, some that saw him pitch and others that did not, that he's following up with.  But so far no interest other than "come to our camp" and the same sort of emails that others have posted about in other threads the past 2 weeks. 

Right now it seems like he's a fit at small D3 schools that would like him to pitch and play the infield (even though the extent of his infield and hitting since June was BP and 3 innings at 2B at HF last week).  

Oh, the other thing is that he's also most likely a fit at the SAT/ACT optional schools. His test scores are low for the HF type of schools but his grades are OK.  Which is good to know since that will help us narrow his focus (turns out there are more of those schools than we thought).  

The odds of your son showing up at a D3 tryout next fall and making the team are probably very low at most schools. The coach would have recruited most of the kids, and he'll have a relationship with those kids. Unless your son is clearly a stronger candidate, he won't be given much of an opportunity.

Many D3s recruit right up to the deposit deadline in April or May. You'll probably increase his chances of finding a home if he plays some type of fall season. That would allow him to invite prospective D3s to come see him play. It doesn't have to be the (expensive?) team with the network, unless that network includes the D3 schools that are on your son's list.

Nothing wrong with applying early to some schools. That would show genuine interest to a coach that he's talking to. But I would encourage him to be patient and let the year play out. Visit schools and meet with their coaches, and be prepared for any opportunity.

There are also lots of showcases and camps in the fall (some for "uncommitted"), but at this point those will probably be very low ROI unless a coach specifically (and genuinely) wants to see him at one.

Good luck.

The one thing I see missing from this thread is an indication of what your kid's goals are (you mention D1, but elaborate).  Is he interested in schools for their academic prowess and wanting to use baseball as a means to get into a school he might otherwise not be accepted?  Does he consider it some level of "prestige" to be on a D1 team?  If so, does he want to play or be a bench player with little to no playing time?  Is he looking for money from athletic scholarship?  Is  he simply wanting to extend his baseball playing time beyond high school?

I know you left a lot out or your OP as you mentioned, but these questions certainly need to be asked and answered by your son.  It sounds like the marketplace is telling him where he fits by virtue of the interest he's receiving.  If no interest from D1's, then THEY don't see him as a fit (today), regardless of what he thinks.  Sure, hard work and improvement can change that, but being a 2016, he has a limited clock for this to happen for him as a freshman.

If he wants to extend his playing career, then he certainly needs to consider NAIA (as someone mentioned) and JUCO in addition to D2/D3's.  If he does grow to become a D1 talent over the next two years, then those doors will be opened.  Also, as Joes87 asks, what are you giving and getting for these advisory services.  If you're looking to trim your spend, that's the first place I'd look.  If they're not doing anything you and your son can't do yourselves . . . . 

Otherwise, I'd have a very real discussion with your son about what the market is telling him on his potential at the next level, determine his true goal and the focus your spend on camps and teams that will achieve those goals.

Good luck MK baseball dad.  Sounds to me like your son is doing what he needs to do. I just wanted to add something about HF as we were there too.

I can't imagine a HC talking to a parent the whole game at HF HRC.  There were 4 games going on at the same time in a clover leaf pattern, so some coaches did rotate around, but most were either in the dugout or on the field actually coaching, and the majority of the others were behind a screen watching one of the four games. I'm not doubting you -- just making two points:  This may indicate very serious interest in your son but secondly you should be careful to make sure your son is the one having these discussions. 

I didn't intend to make it seem like he was talking to just me the entire second game or just watching my son that game.  It was most likely completely random that he picked our field for game 2 (which was 2 hours after the first game he saw) and he did get up several times to check things out on the field behind us.  And we talked about lots of things other than baseball as well with the mom who was sitting next to him on the other side.  Lots of time to kill at baseball games.  You know how it goes.  

While we talked he did tell me exactly what 2016 told me he told him in their discussion earlier which is good because sometimes the translation of what was said comes across differently when explained by a 17yr old.  Both 2016 and I know that he's talking to a lot of other players as well.  But with that particular school it seems like he needs a lot of players right now.  

I appreciate all the replies.  It is very helpful.  To go back to a few recent replies - we've really focused in on D3 right now based on the evaluations he's received.  I left out lots of info in the first post because I didn't want it to turn into a thread by a dad who thinks his son can play D1 and is still looking for that one D1 spot that might be out there for him.  Early on this year he switched his focus to pitching and the evals say very good pitcher but doesn't have the velo for D1.  He's young (just turned 17 this summer) but he's pretty mature physically so I don't think he'd be someone coaches would project as having a huge upside in college.  

There were lots of questions in the replies - with my question about finding the right school (D3) and then just trying out in the Fall wasn't an indication that I thought making a D3 team would be easy.  It's more along the lines of what was just asked in another post by a D3 dad who was recruited.  From what I'd been reading here it seems like everything is up for grabs when they get to D3 schools as Freshman - that their spot isn't really guaranteed and they show up with a lot of other kids who may or may not have been recruited with potentially only a few open spots. 

I do get your response about the coach knowing the kids who have been recruited though and them having a big advantage, makes sense.  

This is far more positive than I thought. At this point, I'd focus on campus visits and ditch the whole camp thing. Cut through the BS and get to a list of truly interested schools, such as the first one mentioned above.

And finally on the showcase team we're considering for the Fall.  I need to speak with the coach today to get more details.  I have the schedule and it looks like they have a mix of tournaments at spots where I know they usually get good college turnouts and a showcase that's just for their organization.  They had multiple players sign with D1 schools from this summer's team.  We know one family/player who is still looking like our 2016 and they said there was very good exposure over the summer.  They are playing this fall and going to D3 camps (some of the same schools our 2016 has been looking at) and the coach of this team has been actively speaking with the coaches at those schools ahead of them attending the camps (which is what the coach of my 2016's summer team was supposed to be doing all summer, but apparently did not).

As far as "advisory services" - I'm not sure what's included in that.  I have to ask today.  The players from the summer team have already paid for that as part of what they paid early on.  I've been getting this info from another parent and now I need to get it first hand from the team.   

OK, follow-up question. He received an email from the coach mentioned in my HF post directing him to the online application for the school and/or using the common application and some details about the early admission process,etc.  Some basic admin type stuff.  He also asked him to come for a visit and provided several dates where the school has visit days scheduled for potential students and he has camp type events set up.  Some of it looks like canned email type stuff but I'm sure he's copying and pasting some stuff into each email.  He also indicates that if those dates don't work then let him know and he'll set up something else personally.  

Here's the issue - it's really far away.  I'm not sure that any of us really want 2016 going that far away but we're all intrigued by the interest and honestly it looks like the type of school he (and we) were looking for but just in the Northeast.  They have a smallish roster with several Sr Ps as Infs graduating so I don't think 2016 would have an issue making the team - they'd need 10 kids like him just to have decent numbers on the team.  So I don't want to rule it out but he's continuing to try to find a fit here in the NE (or even just the east coast).  

We don't want to rule it out but also don't want to set up a visit right now - so how should he reply to the coach?  

We don't want to rule it out but also don't want to set up a visit right now - so how should he reply to the coach?

Honestly.

Honestly.  We're not really sure what to tell him.  Will most likely just tell him that we appreciate the interest but right now he's focused on finding a school closer to home.  

I wasn't trying to be flippant, MK. I really do think your son should just tell the coach the truth: The distance is an issue ... and maybe a deal breaker. And I have a shot at closer schools.

I realize that by saying that, he's likely burning that bridge -- but that's OK -- assuming he really doesn't want to be that far away.

This is from the dad of a 2016 here in Texas, who's son is going to Oregon -- so I know what those conversations are like. Only difference is ... JP was the one who wanted to go far away. His mom ... well, let's just say she's manning up for next summer -- and thank God for Pac 12 TV

Whatever you do, it has to be what your son wants. 

I agree about it has to be what he wants.  I also agree with just telling the coach the deal - just wanted to run it by someone else before he replies.  Appreciate your response.

And good luck to your son in Oregon! 

I think it would be fine to tell him he is intrigued by the program but he is trying to get a handle on how he feels about the distance from home and he will keep in touch. It might spark some conversations on how the team, staff, school supports the players and what he can expect being that far away from his home.

The coach doesn't want him there and floundering any more than you do. Granted he might not have as much at stake.

Good luck,

Ted

IMO I think it is more like this:

If he would consider the program, with it's distance, then he should arrange for a visit as both parties are interested. If not, he should move on... Why waste each others time?

LIKE

Follow-up question to this thread.  2016 ended up with 5 D3 schools interested after HF - with 4 of them being northeast and generally meeting the criteria we had put together for him (and us) around the type of school and location.  One of them was high on his list of schools and seems very interested.  We're visiting later this month, he's meeting the coaches, attending some classes, staying over and then I'm not sure what.  

My question is how involved were you in setting up these visits and how much contact did you have prior to going to the school.  I've seen a few of the emails - the last one being that they were excited about him visiting and here's what we need from you - with a list.  I've let him handle the responses.  Do I need to have any contact with them prior to heading there?  I'm assuming they'll want to meet with us (parents) as well?

My 2 cents after having a 2012 go through the process and now our 2016.

Son is the point person regarding communications with the schools (coaches, admissions reps, et.al.).  If there's an email communication, we'll typically review with him before he sends it.  If there's a phone call, we discuss what to ask in advance, but he's on the phone alone and doing all the talking.

As parents, we've had zero direct interaction with the schools in advance.

Once on site, son(s) have had meetings one on one with coaches, admissions, other players, professors, et.al.  We have also met with coaches and admissions together with our son as they (coaches, admissions) will typically want to engage the parents for any questions too.

OK, one more question.  His first visit is this Friday.  Will they send some sort of overview of the day to him or will he find that out once he gets there?  Any sort of confirmation from schools in your experience?  I only ask because it seems to be somewhat quiet since they replied they were excited he was coming and asked him for info (transcripts, current classes, what sort of class he wanted to sit in on and what time we'd get there).  He's replied with all that and even sent a follow-up last week because he gave the wrong arrival time but he says he has no reply.

I want him to handle all the back and forth but I don't usually drive 4 hours for meetings without confirmation that they know when we'll be there and we know where to go when we get there.

Have him give the coach a call....sometime in the early evening when the college's practice is likely over.  I don't think the coach would mind.   If he gets a VM just say something to the effect of "just wanted to confirm our meeting for Friday....also wondering where we should go once we get on campus".  He's a '16 so coach can call him back.  If he doesn't, I'd wonder if something is up.....don't think I'd make the drive if I don't hear from them before Friday.

Thanks, coach got back to him late yesterday and said looking forward to it and that more details coming soon.