2022 Advice Requested

Every kid's map ends up being slightly different. I have a 2017, 19, and 22, and none of their pathways are gonna be the same. Full disclosure: My experience is with D3 kids.

17/19 were HA kids. Both did truly national searches and both were avidly recruited by teams from each coast.  We did two showcases each summer before their Jr. years, one show case each in fall of jr. year (when November wasn't a dead period), and two more showcases the following summer (same showcases as during the summer before.). Avoided camps for 17 but went to several for 19.  17 got lucky at a headfirst when he made a clever, spontaneous move on the basepaths that several coaches saw and liked. That, plus his speed (6.7 60) and glove opened several doors.  Slap hitter: didn't hurt him, really, but also didn't get him on more coaches' radars. His experience just proved to me that unless your kid flat out mashes, he's gonna look like a LOT of other kids with similar abilities which, frankly, I think is what you'll find at the academic showcases.

19 needed the camps because he didn't showcase consistently well.  Did great in a showcase fall of jr. year but coaches were looking at 2018's and just said they'd follow him.  Did not do as well at showcases before Sr. year. Realizing this, we did a camp circuit in October of sr. year at schools where his academic profile fit and coaches had shown some interest.  The camp circuit was successful and he came home with several offers.  I had thought, before this, that camps were a waste of time, but our experience with them has been pretty good.  You need to be discerning about what camps/schools your kid really fits at.  One fact for my 17 and 19: Coaches saw them more than once.  I've heard of some kids at D3 HA level get picked after one event, but that wasn't our experience.

22, well, he's a different cat.  He's a pitcher, which makes his experience very different from his outfielder brothers. He's not the student his brothers are, either. We're gonna cut down on showcases, and do only one or two next summer and the summer following, targeting west coast schools. We will also do camps at two or three of his top choices if he's not seen and offered as a result of the showcases. We will NOT go to a camp if a coach has seen him at a showcase and has been underwhelmed.  However, a lot of the mystery should disappear once his velo is at a consistent level. I hope that will narrow down his search. My wallet REALLY hopes that's true.

Your experience may be entirely different.  What I would do, and this is advice I'd give over and over again, is put together a plan like you have and STICK to it. The other thing I would do is find someone who knows what they're talking about to evaluate your son during the next year. You don't want to be fishing in the neighborhood pond if you have the gear for Lake Superior, and vice versa.

It's a long road, but a fun one if you can temper your expectations and let your kid rise to his natural level.   Just my 2 cents.  Good luck!

My two cents...

I think SmokemInside has provided a lot of information that will be helpful once you get started.  But as I see it, you really need a place to get started.   Also, you provided no information with regard to academics, which I'm afraid is part of going to college. 

A good place to get started is at a local baseball academy or a local college camp to see how things are run and also to get talent feedback.   This should be a minimal investment with a great financial return in the form of where to start your recruiting journey.   Before you do all the things that need to be done, you need to see where your son is in the talent hierarchy.   If this is not clearly defined it can become a waste of your time and money.   My oldest son's path was very different and included exposure through regional and national tournaments that started at 14U.   We were able to figure out where he fit in that talent pool fairly quickly through feedback from his coaches and a local pitching coach.   These folks were instrumental resources in our recruiting journey.  This was only a starting point.   The hard work came later in terms of meeting both his athletic and academic requirements.   We made mistakes along the way.  Most people do.   As smoke said, have a plan and stick to it. 

The ultimate question would be which pond do you see him fishing in?  P5, D1, D2, D3 NAIA, JUCO?  That helps provide the map.  As I was told,  you can't have a map if you don't know where you are going, either generally or specifically. 

As usual, Smoke and Fenway are spot-on with their advice. The only thing I would add is don't close any doors, burn any bridges, or eliminate any levels of play at this stage. The coaching/recruiting community is relatively small and your son will likely have many twists, turns, and bumps on the way to finding a college home. Unless he's a truly elite player (and there's a good chance you'd know that by now), or will be, there is a lot more to the decision than baseball. Focus on academics, hit the gym hard, work on skills development, EAT, play at the highest level possible, and showcase when there are measurables to showcase. I like "have a plan and STICK to it" and I would add that the plan should be flexible in the event of unforeseen circumstances i.e. injury, academic issues, girls, cars, and the myriad of other things that could influence timeline and development. Best of luck!

Thanks all for the feedback thus far. I really appreciate it. As noted, there's some info I should have provided to help fine-tune the advice.

Academic-wise, we think he's a good candidate so far for some HA programs. He's a 4.0 unweighted so far through 10th grade, is taking all gifted classes as well as 2 AP classes this year. He'll likely end up with a B or two before the end of his high school career assuming his focus remains as it is now (16 yo boy, no explanation needed there). He took both a quick practice SAT and ACT this fall, found that the SAT is more his speed, and we're awaiting results of the real PSAT he took in Oct.  The current plan is to work with an SAT prep course through the summer and have him take his first SAT in August 2020, giving him a baseline for his junior year.

He played for the past 2 years with a large nationally known program, but hasn't been on their top 3 squads.  He took the fall off to rest and refocus on building size and skill. We definitely have some people (in that organization and outside it) who can help provide perspective for him, and he decided he wants to attend PG's national showcase at the end of this month down in Ft. Meyers. Partially to get some playing time in before HS starts up, but also to really see where he stacks up now.

As for ponds to swim in, he is very interested in engineering/math, and has his eye on several of the D1 P5 schools for their academic offerings there. But thus far, his abilities haven't been in line with their recruiting classes. The showcase later this month should help him get some clarity there.

And that's probably the focused part of the question. As I said, he's a later bloomer. 6'2 and 173, having gained 50 lbs and 7 inches in less than 2 years, and he's still growing. Everything is slowly starting to sync in terms of strength, coordination, and ability. His catching coach (part of the national program) told me 2 weeks ago that he doesn't even recognize the kid he first met 2 years ago. 

So with that knowledge, we wondered if the rising junior summer is one that is critical in terms of exposure? Or is Jupiter in junior year more important? Or rising senior summer? I guess when is the right time to focus a "peak" at, giving him the best opportunity and exposure in line with his development?

Thanks!

If he is thinking P5 or high D1 then junior summer is huge.  They are always looking but the numbers get lower as you head into fall junior.  Not saying he won't find anything but a specific player, C, has the lower number of opportunities.  They don't normally bring in more than one C a year and most of the time every other year do they bring in more than the stud.  You need to get on the radar as early as you can.  I don't think you can afford to miss the summer before Junior year.  Not a do or die unless he is bound to be P5.  Other levels do not have as rigid a timeframe.  The problem with catchers is that they have a great ability to be recruited if they are ready early and meet all the checkmarks.  If not, the scouts at lower levels are watching to see if they develop or not.  I have seen many catchers sign early and then not develop as expected and get the conversation that they may never have a place for them.  My 2019 son has had at least 6 catcher friends who committed to P5's that ended up not going at all or did not make it past this fall. 

"So with that knowledge, we wondered if the rising junior summer is one that is critical in terms of exposure? Or is Jupiter in junior year more important? Or rising senior summer? I guess when is the right time to focus a "peak" at, giving him the best opportunity and exposure in line with his development?"

Sounds like you have him in a good place with a good plan.  I'll just add two cents.  Schools look for talent and projection.  But, those players and parents in the process often make the mistake of giving too much weight to the projection side.  As you witnessed with the stud HS starting catcher, schools want to see the talent present now that can potentially help them win upon arrival.  I would say projection is afforded more to P's than position players, but still, they want to see a kid that has the tools and can get the job done now.  My point is that he isn't likely to get full attention until he is a bit closer to being more fully developed.  Sounds like he is on a more typical maturation/growth curve and will benefit from waiting with the hard exposure push but it also sounds like you have a support staff that can keep an eye on his development and let you know if that changes.

I always like to throw this in...  in all the excitement and planning, don't lose sight of the importance of your son having a clear identity and your relationship with him being very full without baseball.  It will end some day.  Could be sudden.  Could be gradual.  Who will he be without it?  What will your relationship be without it?

Best!

Senna posted:

As for ponds to swim in, he is very interested in engineering/math, and has his eye on several of the D1 P5 schools for their academic offerings there. But thus far, his abilities haven't been in line with their recruiting classes. The showcase later this month should help him get some clarity there.

Senna, I would urge you to spend some time researching past posts on STEM majors and baseball players.  I've been told some coaches shy away from players in these majors.  Part of our research (I have a 2022 LHP who is also academically strong and interested in engineering) is to look at past rosters to see what the majors for upperclassmen are.  There is a school with "Tech" in the name from your home state and yet almost every player is a business administration major.  Which is my oldest son's major, it's a great major.  Just not the Aeronautical Engineering that Lefty is looking for....

Clearly, I struggle with tech as I made this entire post a quote.  But I'm sure you get my drift.  When I have a little more time I will search back for some exceptional threads on players who want to become engineers.

Lots of good advice above.

What I want to add is sometimes less playing and more time spent getting bigger/faster/stronger and skill development can have a big impact on what level your son can achieve.  Also rest and a good nutrition program can go a long way for him.  I didn't read any of this in your post, or on the advice posted for you.

If your kid is "that kid" who can keep a journal of what he eats, how many calories, how much he sleeps, his workouts, games and how he feels, that would be a plus.  It would also make him very special, because very few kids are that disciplined.  (Same with most adults)

So, based on your updated feedback I'd suggest a sit down with your son to discuss his academic plans over the next 5+ years.   If he is a HA kid looking at engineering/math that could change the plan quite a bit...trust me on this.   The HSBBWeb website is littered with this discussion topic many times over.  I'd suggest doing some additional research so you have that in your back pocket.  Bottom line is the recruiting and college experience is different for STEM folks.   You and your son need to be aware of this.   The recruiting timetable can also be very different with a couple exceptions.   You need to familiarize yourself with that.

By all means keep doing what you are doing, as any recruiting experience you have will only help you later.   Remember I mentioned "we made mistakes along the way" in my earlier post.    Bingo...enter baseball and engineering major.   This was a big one in a couple different ways.  First, it extended our recruiting timeline.  Second, we didn't understand that engineering is a dirty word with most D1 coaches.  Third, finding a fit with D1 baseball & engineering would be a monumental effort.  Lastly, engineering by itself is a difficult and time consuming major.   When you throw college baseball on top of that engineering becomes more challenging, and college fit becomes really, really important.

As always, JMO.

A few things don't seem to be in line with the direction you seem to be taking:

1. Playing locally and possibly attending a HA showcase next summer, plus stating "not a dude at Fr-Jr year", tells me that you don't see him as a P5 candidate. It tells me you are considering a path more in line with high academic (Ivy, Patriot) or D3.

2. Based on #1, how do you see him playing in Jupiter next fall?

Most teams attending Jupiter are the "A" teams from the various organizations. They primarily consist of players who are seniors or are high-level juniors; most are already committed. The uncommitted kids are either pitchers looking to show off newly gained pitching velocities or are underclassmen from the bigger clubs looking to get some playing time in front of coaches they are already in contact with. Of course this is a generalization but by and large it is a fair assessment. The majority of scouts that attend are of the MLB variety and college coaches wanting to make sure their already committed recruit still warrants an NLI the following month.

So if you are looking for HA schools then yes you are on track. Except for Jupiter. Not saying you shouldn't pursue it but make sure you have team who will provide some playing time!

Attending the PG National Main is not a bad idea if you think he is ready; it will certainly give you a better idea where he stands among his peers and should provide a better idea for his path in the summer.

It seems you’re projecting and hoping for D1. It’s possible he could become a D1 prospect. But the right travel teams to get players to D1 usually recruit D1 prospects. The reality is he won’t be starting in high school and isn’t playing on a top tier travel team in his program. I get it he’s in a large school program. But if the bat was there he would be a candidate to start somewhere then move to catcher as a junior. 

Fenway is a great asset for advice for college baseball and engineering. For a kid with engineering aspirations if your son wants to attend a major university and can’t play ball at that level there’s club ball. There’s nothing wrong with playing D3 ball. Parents I’ve talked with in the past said their kid’s HA D3 coaches didn’t get upset if they missed practice (sometimes games) due to academics, Any kid who isn’t a peacock strutting pro prospect stud should be thinking academics over baseball. Think forty year plan over four year plan. Find the best academic situation combined with a quality baseball experience regardless of level. 

A friend of mine at a ranked program was convinced to switch from engineering to Phys Ed. Fortunately, it worked out for him. He’s now in his state’s athletic Hall of Fame as a baseball player, baseball coach and basketball coach. 

A few thoughts. You mention hitting some high academic camps in the same sentence as Jupiter. Those are really two different worlds for the most part. The high academic schools  aren't heading down there and the reason being that almost all of those players are better than the level of baseball they are playing at their schools. On the same topic, how is your son getting on a Jupiter team as a junior when the teams there are the best in the country made up of mostly senior draft prospects and high level D1 commits? It is unlikely. 

Now if you wanted to take the high academic route that is great but I'd save the camp money until he has a true sense of where his SAT scores stand compared to their typical admitted students. You can do all the camps you want but if his SAT is only a 1300 and they're looking for 1400+ it's a bit of a waste. Plus most high academic schools are waiting until the end of the summer heading into senior year to do the bulk of their recruiting.

As for taking a light summer to come back ready and fully healthy for fall that doesn't make a ton of sense either - especially if recruitment is the name of the game. College coaches have an entire uninterrupted summer away from their teams to recruit. Everybody plays summer. When September hits these guys are back on campus looking to make cuts and work with their own guys. Recruiting is secondary considering they had 3 full months to identify recruits.  Fall is much less important than summer. 

PABaseball posted:

A few thoughts. You mention hitting some high academic camps in the same sentence as Jupiter. Those are really two different worlds for the most part. The high academic schools  aren't heading down there and the reason being that almost all of those players are better than the level of baseball they are playing at their schools. On the same topic, how is your son getting on a Jupiter team as a junior when the teams there are the best in the country made up of mostly senior draft prospects and high level D1 commits? It is unlikely. 

Now if you wanted to take the high academic route that is great but I'd save the camp money until he has a true sense of where his SAT scores stand compared to their typical admitted students. You can do all the camps you want but if his SAT is only a 1300 and they're looking for 1400+ it's a bit of a waste. Plus most high academic schools are waiting until the end of the summer heading into senior year to do the bulk of their recruiting.

As for taking a light summer to come back ready and fully healthy for fall that doesn't make a ton of sense either - especially if recruitment is the name of the game. College coaches have an entire uninterrupted summer away from their teams to recruit. Everybody plays summer. When September hits these guys are back on campus looking to make cuts and work with their own guys. Recruiting is secondary considering they had 3 full months to identify recruits.  Fall is much less important than summer. 

A couple of comments...

1. HA D1's most certainly attend Jupiter.

2. Don't discount a 1300 SAT score; baseball skills trump SAT scores.

That being said, DO know what your target school is looking for and DON'T wait until the summer before your senior year; the earlier you can be seen and be possibly offered, the better chance you have gaining admissions support. For example, an Ivy can work with a lower SAT score if you are the first player they commit; they can make it up with the remaining recruits--their scores can offset the lower score.

I'm not sure how many HA schools there are at Jupiter unless you're considering schools like Mich, UNC, and Vandy towards that. About 80% of the field in Jupiter would be committed to begin with. Sure you may see one or two high academics there but to say that HAs attend Jupiter like it would be a good place for a HA kid to be seen isn't good advice. I have a hard time believing Bucknell and Tufts are going to be down in Jupiter where 40% of the field is made up of draftable guys.  The talent pool doesn't match the level of recruiting for the most part. 

There were HA D1's there this past fall to include at least one Ivy school who committed a 2021 after seeing him at the event. I'm not saying they "discovered" him there, but they certainly didn't cross him off their recruiting list after coming to see him play. As I stated earlier, if you can guarantee playing time, you have an opportunity to be seen.

As far as a "talent pool" I think you look at the various rosters you would find the kids that did play this past fall weren't just D1 commits; there were D2, D3, and Juco commits there as well. Don't mistake talent with level of NCAA play; they don't always match. Plenty of those D1 (50%?) commits will be playing at different levels (D3, Juco) following their freshman season!

Additionally, there were quite a few Ivy and Patriot league commits that attended. Also plenty of uncommitted kids attended and had the opportunity to play and be seen--by somebody, not just HA D1's.

But as I stated in my first reply to the OP, Jupiter is a great opportunity but doesn't line up with his current recruiting plan. I was just trying to set his expectations given his statement "not a dude at Fr-Jr year, but has the potential." I also wanted to make it clear that if he has an opportunity to play in Jupiter (team and guaranteed playing time) then he should go!

Tons more info, thanks all. A bit more clarity from me:

• I've gone through (and have bookmarked) some of the threads on STEM/Engineering interests. But he hasn't read them yet, and we haven't discussed the implications. They are tremendously helpful, and will guide our talks
• I was actually going through the well-known Tech in my area's roster, and noticed the BA degrees were plentiful. One path that son has looked at goes through a D3 that has a dual degree program w/ said school. 
• In our chats, he cares more about the level of competition than he does the name of the school. So all levels are open in his mind, if it's the right school. No matter the classification

The overall feeling i'm getting from the amazing responses is that the path is, if not exactly correct, at least trending in the right direction. I think that the biggest decision will be what to do this summer, based on the input. And that decision will be heavily weighted on how he stacks up at the showcase this winter as well as during the HS season. He has a few options available for him n the summer, but we're able to wait until later in the spring to make that decision. But it definitely sounds like that if he's progressing as he (and I, of course) hopes, then he'll need to get onto a summer team for at least July. 

Thanks again!

Yeah...  If, ultimately, he is set on engineering, that will really simplify the baseball search as there are certainly a limited number of schools where it is feasible to play baseball and pursue that major.  One or two of the threads you mention even go so far as to list those schools across divisions.  While it may not be 100% complete, it is probably pretty close and a very good guide.  There are also multiple regular contributing members here who's sons went that route or strongly considered it (including some on this thread), so do come back with any more specific questions that pertain to the combination of college baseball and an engineering major.

... he cares more about the level of competition than he does the name of the school.

This is the wrong approach. Unless he’s a legitimate potential pro prospect he should be thinking academics first. Then, what baseball program fits.

A lot of players considered potential pro prospects get to D1 ball to find out they’re not pro prospects. A lot of D1 players receive playing time and they’re not pro prospects. 

When your son is forty (hard for kids to imagine) is the job he has provided by his education going to important? Or will stating he played D1 matter? It’s gets a couple of wows at parties from baseball fans. But it doesn’t mean anything. At that point in life the impression lasts as long as the wow. 

RJM posted:

... he cares more about the level of competition than he does the name of the school.

This is the wrong approach. Unless he’s a legitimate potential pro prospect he should be thinking academics first. Then, what baseball program fits.

A lot of players considered potential pro prospects get to D1 ball to find out they’re not pro prospects. A lot of D1 players receive playing time and they’re not pro prospects. 

When your son is forty (hard for kids to imagine) is the job he has provided by his education going to important? Or will stating he played D1 matter? It’s gets a couple of wows at parties from baseball fans. But it doesn’t mean anything. At that point in life the impression lasts as long as the wow. 

I think my meaning wasn’t clear. He doesn’t care if it’s D1, JUCO, or anything in between, in terms of baseball, “as long as the competition is good” (his words, not mine).

Academics are an entirely different ball of wax, and indeed are more important, along with the school “fit”.  That’s the part that I believe he is starting to learn now. 

His impression of competition is formed from never playing varsity baseball, not playing for a top-level club team and really never having shown he is a grinder. I fear this is not going to turn out as you think, hate to be the guy who tells you that.

It was mentioned earlier, but the first thing I noticed was that he's not playing summer ball, but he hopes to be in Jupiter?   If he was a pitcher throwing 90.....sure, you can find a team to play with....no problem.  But a C, who didn't start varsity in HS and didn't play summer.....I don't know how you'd go about getting down there.  The top organizations bring their top team....and in a lot of cases, not even all the guys who played in the summer are invited.  There are a lot of teams who'll bring in a stud if he is better than the guy they have at that position.   

My thought would be to find another summer organization, even if it's not a multi-team national organization where he can play every day (or close to it) and they attend tourneys/events that attract the types of schools your son is looking at. 

I would say that of all the events you could attend, Jupiter is very low on the list for uncommitted players.  It is not close to the most attended recruited event.  We went to Jupiter to be seen by pro scouts.  Most of the college coaches that I saw there were looking for the stud that had made a big jump but mostly to follow up with their committed players and I think to see where they might fall in the draft.  Jupiter is a great experience but not a great recruiting tool.  I'm not saying that guys don't get recruited from Jupiter but that is not the main task.  If you are going to pick one event, it would have to be WWBA for me.  Except if HA is your goal then there are better choices as you have heard.

Buckeye 2015 posted:

It was mentioned earlier, but the first thing I noticed was that he's not playing summer ball, but he hopes to be in Jupiter?   If he was a pitcher throwing 90.....sure, you can find a team to play with....no problem.  But a C, who didn't start varsity in HS and didn't play summer.....I don't know how you'd go about getting down there.  The top organizations bring their top team....and in a lot of cases, not even all the guys who played in the summer are invited.  There are a lot of teams who'll bring in a stud if he is better than the guy they have at that position.   

My thought would be to find another summer organization, even if it's not a multi-team national organization where he can play every day (or close to it) and they attend tourneys/events that attract the types of schools your son is looking at. 

I believe that the idea was lost somehow as to the summer absence and Jupiter (or Ft. Myers, or both) in the fall. I tried to eliminate some specifics to keep this a bit anonymous. 

Summer '19, he was the varsity catcher on his high school's summerball team. He also played for the national organization. So his May - July was flat exhausting, as he was playing or practicing a tremendous amount, and traveling all around the SEast. He also suffered an injury early in May, which he nursed back to health by early July, but hurt him in his performance in the critical eval stages and early games.

It was definitely a grind, one might  say. Hence taking the fall off from playing (again, only working on hitting) so he could recover fully. 

He thoroughly loved playing on the V summerball team. It was extremely challenging for him, he got a lot of face time with the V coach and players, and the enjoyment and reward there helped carry him through rough times endured w/ the other organization.

So the idea (again, idea, not hard plan, hence the advice request) was for him to play V summerball again. That's something that, as of now, he definitely wants to prioritize, even at the expense of exposure. He would then get more rest in the summer and play in the fall, ideally at Jupiter, definitely at Ft. Myers.

But the advice definitely seems to be to play at the rest of the events this summer if at all possible (WWBA, BCS, PG WS). Which makes complete sense.  So again, we'll start discussing that with his past team as well as looking at other options that may allow him to do both, but with more rest days in place.

Thanks!

collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:

His impression of competition is formed from never playing varsity baseball, not playing for a top-level club team and really never having shown he is a grinder. I fear this is not going to turn out as you think, hate to be the guy who tells you that.

I'm certain that I'm still going to be in the wrong here, but:

• He has played V baseball as the summerteam catcher. Yes, there is a difference, I know. 
• He plays in a top-level organization. He has competed for over 2 years with their top players, been challenged immensely by them, and has used that competition to increase his own skills and abilities. Rather than quit when he wasn't put on the lead teams (like some players did), he buckled down and competed. And got placed on a higher team next time as his skills increased. Rinse and repeat.
• Any coach (or parent) who has been around him would laugh at your assertion that he hasn't shown he is a grinder. And I'm frankly offended at the assertion, to be honest. The one thing that my wife & I have tried to instill in our children is that you are owed NOTHING, and hard work and leadership will always pay off. It may not be in the timeframe or manner that you imagine, but it pays off. And we have been extremely fortunate that our children have taken that to heart as often as possible.

So with that in mind, I'm extremely hopeful that it will turn out the way I think. He'll move through life with a work ethic forged in schoolwork, sports, and leadership, and find success in whatever form it may take (on the field or off).

Thanks.

Given he’s heading into his soph year of high school baseball has anyone told him he’s a D1 prospect? Has anyone outside a person who can make a lot of money off training him told him he can definitely develop into a D1 prospect? 

I think you will find most D1 prospects are pursued by travel teams and told they are D1 prospects. Yes, there are late bloomer exceptions. Most D1 prospects are on their travel organization’s A team.

Given he’s heading into soph season he should be sitting down with his travel coaches ASAP to discuss legitimate target conferences/colleges for baseball to mix with his academic targets. 

The considerations should be more than baseball and academics. Also considered should be social and cultural environment and distance from home. 

By cultural environment a southern rural kid might not be comfortable in a northeast urban area and vice versa. 

Sometimes, people read stuff into posts that is not there.  It is tough to get playing time in some of the larger schools in Ga.  But I would replace that with playing time in Atlanta.  I don't know about your situation but most high school summer teams do not play at the level that the high level organizations in Ga play so I would easily replace high school summer ball with travel ball if he is on one of the higher teams in a competitive organization or do both.  Being in Ga, you are able to play some of the most recruited tournaments in the US.  Good luck.  Just remember that everyone's journey is different.  No two people have the same journey.  All three of my sons took different journeys to get where they wanted to be.  I'm the exception on here because my son picked a school for the baseball and not the academics.  His goal is to be a coach if he does not make it as a pro player.  So his goal was to play the highest level baseball he could play.  Not everyone cares about academics.  They are just an avenue on the journey.  No one has ever asked me my gpa or even what my degree was in.  My two older sons are college and HS varsity coaches and people really just care about their success.  As they say C's get degrees in some contexts.  If your son wants to be an engineer, then you better work that way but that is not everybody's journey.  That is what makes life so fun.

Senna posted:

• Any coach (or parent) who has been around him would laugh at your assertion that he hasn't shown he is a grinder. And I'm frankly offended at the assertion, to be honest. The one thing that my wife & I have tried to instill in our children is that you are owed NOTHING, and hard work and leadership will always pay off. It may not be in the timeframe or manner that you imagine, but it pays off. And we have been extremely fortunate that our children have taken that to heart as often as possible.

Try not to take too much out here personally. There are quite a few folks with a ton of experience that don't know you or your son and are trying to ask questions to help get there. Sometimes assumptions are made that are incorrect simply because the information hasn't been provided, they did not piece it all together correctly, or the response has been interpreted incorrectly by the OP. There are also a lot of folks that come here with rose colored glasses on (not saying you are one) and thread after thread is devoted to "educating" them and bringing them down to earth in some cases. I see often that some replies to newer posters start right in rather harshly but I truly believe that 99.9% of members out here want to help. You are in the right place asking the right questions so please don't get discouraged when some responses are, for lack of a better term, blunt. It can be a really tough process that involves failure on many levels but I can tell you with confidence that, in my couple of years here, rudeness is not tolerated for very long when it is obvious.

Senna posted:

collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:

His impression of competition is formed from never playing varsity baseball, not playing for a top-level club team and really never having shown he is a grinder. I fear this is not going to turn out as you think, hate to be the guy who tells you that.

I'm certain that I'm still going to be in the wrong here, but:

• He has played V baseball as the summerteam catcher. Yes, there is a difference, I know. 
• He plays in a top-level organization. He has competed for over 2 years with their top players, been challenged immensely by them, and has used that competition to increase his own skills and abilities. Rather than quit when he wasn't put on the lead teams (like some players did), he buckled down and competed. And got placed on a higher team next time as his skills increased. Rinse and repeat.
• Any coach (or parent) who has been around him would laugh at your assertion that he hasn't shown he is a grinder. And I'm frankly offended at the assertion, to be honest. The one thing that my wife & I have tried to instill in our children is that you are owed NOTHING, and hard work and leadership will always pay off. It may not be in the timeframe or manner that you imagine, but it pays off. And we have been extremely fortunate that our children have taken that to heart as often as possible.

 

So with that in mind, I'm extremely hopeful that it will turn out the way I think. He'll move through life with a work ethic forged in schoolwork, sports, and leadership, and find success in whatever form it may take (on the field or off).

Thanks.

Senna - Keep in mind, most sophomores are untested.  So the comments in this thread (although probably sounding unfair) are probably true as most sophomores haven't been tested against top players locally, regionally or nationally.  My son was recruited by mid-major D1s and he was untested until his sophomore year in high school.   His team would go on to win the PG WWBA at 16U and that untested label was no more.

The point I want you to walk away with is that baseball tested or untested at this time....is irrelevant.   Your son has the potential  to make a huge recruiting difference with his grades and SAT scores if he is considering HA schools or academic scholarships, etc....   This is leverage, and it is the key to  open doors for schools looking for your son's profile.   There will be schools that just don't care about grades because it is all about baseball talent.   And then there are schools that have academic requirements that must be met in order to be recruited and eventually admitted....your son has to be a better baseball player than the other kids being considered at these HA schools.   I hope this helps in some way.   Keep improving the baseball skills but try to understand where your son can make the biggest difference in his possible future recruitment.

As always, JMO.

Senna posted:

collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:

His impression of competition is formed from never playing varsity baseball, not playing for a top-level club team and really never having shown he is a grinder. I fear this is not going to turn out as you think, hate to be the guy who tells you that.

I'm certain that I'm still going to be in the wrong here, but:

• He has played V baseball as the summerteam catcher. Yes, there is a difference, I know. 
  
  
• He plays in a top-level organization. He has competed for over 2 years with their top players, been challenged immensely by them, and has used that competition to increase his own skills and abilities. Rather than quit when he wasn't put on the lead teams (like some players did), he buckled down and competed. And got placed on a higher team next time as his skills increased. Rinse and repeat.
• Any coach (or parent) who has been around him would laugh at your assertion that he hasn't shown he is a grinder. And I'm frankly offended at the assertion, to be honest. The one thing that my wife & I have tried to instill in our children is that you are owed NOTHING, and hard work and leadership will always pay off. It may not be in the timeframe or manner that you imagine, but it pays off. And we have been extremely fortunate that our children have taken that to heart as often as possible.

 

So with that in mind, I'm extremely hopeful that it will turn out the way I think. He'll move through life with a work ethic forged in schoolwork, sports, and leadership, and find success in whatever form it may take (on the field or off).

Thanks.

The way YOU painted his participation in baseball over the last couple of years indicated to me that the priority has not been on competing at the highest levels. So, the impression I am left with, from what you posted earlier, is that truly getting to a place where he will be a viable D1, let alone a P5 recruiting candidate is incongruent. Since your first couple of posts in this thread, you have come back to clarify things and defend your projection of your son. You are in a forum with a lot of people who have walked several miles in your shoes and have seen a lot of scenarios play out. Yours is not the first to raise a red flag indicating your perception may not meet with reality.

To your point that your son played Varsity summer ball, that’s great. I’m going to be frankly blunt here: high school varsity summer baseball, by and large, sucks. The players who are true college prospects or who have a roadmap are not playing. I have seen 8th grade kids on high school varsity summer ball teams. For a real college prospect, they AVOID playing this type of baseball in my area, which is a baseball hotbed.

You have moved the goalpost on the level of participation in club ball. You have indicated he is not “a dude”. The top club teams typically don’t take players on their teams who aren’t dudes. It’s understandable to not receive playing time as an underclassman rostered on varsity because there is a stud or a more skilled upperclassman on the roster, but teams carry more than one catcher on a varsity roster if for no other reason than to warm up a pitcher, catch bullpens, etc. So for your son to not even be rostered on varsity would indicate he has work so do in many areas.

Grinding is a relative term, but at its heart is a principle called friction. Friction is used as a metaphor for sharpening, such as a knife or sword. One can go through the motions of grinding, but if the material you are grinding against is itself soft, then no real sharpening occurs. You can only sharpen a blade (or skill set such as receiving a baseball, framing, blocking or hitting) if you are pushing yourself up against a material of equal or greater hardness. Thus, I would ask you to reassess your opinion of grinding and ask yourself if he really was grinding?

I am not trying to be a jerk or mean, but I think you (and your son) are going to be best served by being honest with yourselves. I hope for your son’s sake that everything works out well for him, I want every kid to realize their dreams. But I also hate to see kids, and parents, suffer disappointed when there is a real disconnect between their perception and reality. Much of what you posted in this thread indicates a disconnect exists. There is plenty of time to correct that, but it starts with looking objectively at what is going on and getting your son into situations (both HS and club teams) that are going to benefit him in achieving his goals.

best of luck to you.

Thank you CBRG. I didn't understand that I would have needed to provide more information to satisfy the request.

I've seen a multitude of threads go awry in my time lurking, and I never wanted to be that guy (it's always a guy). So if I did end up that way (and of course I don't see myself in that vein), my apologies. 

If there seems to be a disconnect, then again, my apologies. I don't believe that I have unreal views of son's abilities. I have never said/felt that he deserved a position above any of those who have been placed above him in teams. Perhaps the disconnect may be in that I think/feel/believe that there is time (and work ethic) for him to develop yet into a player that can play at any level, given time.

Here's the baseball-specific metrics/info, if they help:

• 16 and 0 mos
• 173 lbs (+18 in 8 mos)
• 6'2 (+2 in. in 8 mos)
• 7.9 60 (8 mos ago) (yikes)
• 86 exit velo (8 mos ago)
• 76 C velo  (8 mos ago)
• 2.02 pop (8 mos ago)
• Tied or led freshman team in all batting metrics (so what)
• Led summer team in all batting metrics (so what)
• HS V team had a P5 D1 (signed as a freshman) 2020 as primary catcher, with a D2 2019 as backup/1B catcher.
  • Even if he was good enough for V (and he wasn't), they had zero need of him there
  • And he frankly wasn't as good as the JV catcher at that time. He may or may not be now

Academic metrics:

• 4.0 through freshman year
• All gifted classes
• 2 AP class in sophomore year
• STEM-focused curriculum in high school

The consensus of advice (the ask of the thread) seems to be overwhelmingly in favor of a full summer season his rising junior summer, against the best possible competition, in the best team he can attain. Fall will be determined by the success of the above. And as for STEM-focused, he will likely need to try to go after a D3 (Johns Hopkins, Embry-Riddle, Rose Hullman, etc,) to continue that pathway.

If any of the above changes the ideal path, please let me know.

Thanks so much for all the help, everyone. 

I don't know much if anything about the catching recruiting process, but I don't think a 2022 catcher will be getting looks from P5 schools with a 76mph arm unless he can absolutely mash. At least not until he gets that up.

I have seen some parents (not saying this is you) with the expectation that to play for a HA D3, you just have to be very smart, and mediocre at best at baseball. That is not true. 2020 son's teammate is a Hopkins commit, absolute stud. Could have committed to many mid-major D1s. 

nycdad posted:

I don't know much if anything about the catching recruiting process, but I don't think a 2022 catcher will be getting looks from P5 schools with a 76mph arm unless he can absolutely mash. At least not until he gets that up.

I have seen some parents (not saying this is you) with the expectation that to play for a HA D3, you just have to be very smart, and mediocre at best at baseball. That is not true. 2020 son's teammate is a Hopkins commit, absolute stud. Could have committed to many mid-major D1s. 

Def agree re: D3. We know one JH  catcher commit from our area. Outstanding player, could easily be a mid-major D1. 

Not an attitude of “settle” for D3, but a “if STEM, then D3” realization. 

To clarify, Embry Riddle in Daytona is D2. And if you're looking at them, also consider Florida Tech in Melbourne. 

Just be aware that D2 baseball in Florida is filled with draft-caliber players.  

• I think the 7.9 60 is really going to hurt him, unless he has an insane bat
• I'm trying to envision 6'2" 173 and why he isn't a little faster.  I would focus on improving that dramatically.
• Being a C is really tough for recruiting, as others have mentioned
• To be the lone C in a class, you need to mash, have a great pop, especially if you're a 7.9 guy
• Honest question, any chance he wants to convert to PO?  The 6'2" frame should help and doesn't need to be fleet of foot (although don't discount athleticism as an important factor for all D1 recruits)

Senna - You've got a workable baseball plan.  Go execute and adjust as necessary.   Let us know how it goes.

CTBBallDad is reading my mind.  I agree that the 7.9 60yd can be an issue.   There are people that work with young athletes in our area to help them with speed and explosiveness.  I would seek someone in your area to help your son with that.   I've seen some miraculous transformations with some of my sons friends.

Your son's academic profile is not that much different from my oldest son.  He attended a STEM-based magnet high school that was a great primer and foundation for college.  It was a difference maker with Admissions as well. There is an abundance of fantastic "boutiquey" engineering schools out there...however, most of them are private so start saving your nickels and dimes.   I'll add to the list (above) Tufts, Stevens Institute, RPI, RIT, Case-Western, Colorado School of Mines, WPI, and Trinity Univ (TX) as excellent engineering schools with baseball teams. My son visited a few of these in his travels.   Here is a full list I dug up from the archives https://recruiting.studentathl...ages/Engineering.pdf    We went deep on this topic 10 years ago.  If your son is 100% on engineering then it is a matter of deciding what discipline.   My son's goal was to get into the highest ranked and broadest engineering program then play baseball there.   His plan was to major in MechE and minor in material science which is exactly what he did.   At the time, only certain larger engineering schools offered material science so that reduced his options a bit.   My point is just as you are developing a workable baseball plan, have a workable academic plan as well and see where they intersect.  

Good luck!

There are also several schools with baseball programs and dual-degree 3/2 engineering programs.  Player enrolls in smaller (usually D2) school, does three years, then transfers into an affiliated engineering school for 2 additional years.  Receives degree in usually math or science from 1st school, and engineering degree from 2nd school.

This path offers some possible advantages for a ballplayer, but it has its on set of challenges, primarily that the required course load is very heavy, and also usually requires some summer classes.  

Another, maybe more feasible option for an athlete, would be to plan from the start on just doing the engineering in a graduate program.  This opens up vastly more possibilities in choosing where to play, and provides flexibility if plans evolve after a few years.

Just my optimistic 2 cents, 

Seems to me the numbers given maybe a little out-dated since he did grow a couple inches and put on 20 lbs in 8 months or so. I've seen some guys really improve once they start filling out (Shave a little off pop-times and 60, then add a little to his arm and EV). I would want to see where he currently sits with this new found body, and then as everyone else has mentioned play against the best quality I could find.    

Senna posted:

Thank you CBRG. I didn't understand that I would have needed to provide more information to satisfy the request.

I've seen a multitude of threads go awry in my time lurking, and I never wanted to be that guy (it's always a guy). So if I did end up that way (and of course I don't see myself in that vein), my apologies. 

If there seems to be a disconnect, then again, my apologies. I don't believe that I have unreal views of son's abilities. I have never said/felt that he deserved a position above any of those who have been placed above him in teams. Perhaps the disconnect may be in that I think/feel/believe that there is time (and work ethic) for him to develop yet into a player that can play at any level, given time.

Here's the baseball-specific metrics/info, if they help:

• 16 and 0 mos
• 173 lbs (+18 in 8 mos)
• 6'2 (+2 in. in 8 mos)
• 7.9 60 (8 mos ago) (yikes)
• 86 exit velo (8 mos ago)
• 76 C velo  (8 mos ago)
• 2.02 pop (8 mos ago)
• Tied or led freshman team in all batting metrics (so what)
• Led summer team in all batting metrics (so what)
• HS V team had a P5 D1 (signed as a freshman) 2020 as primary catcher, with a D2 2019 as backup/1B catcher.
  • Even if he was good enough for V (and he wasn't), they had zero need of him there
  • And he frankly wasn't as good as the JV catcher at that time. He may or may not be now

Academic metrics:

• 4.0 through freshman year
• All gifted classes
• 2 AP class in sophomore year
• STEM-focused curriculum in high school

The consensus of advice (the ask of the thread) seems to be overwhelmingly in favor of a full summer season his rising junior summer, against the best possible competition, in the best team he can attain. Fall will be determined by the success of the above. And as for STEM-focused, he will likely need to try to go after a D3 (Johns Hopkins, Embry-Riddle, Rose Hullman, etc,) to continue that pathway.

If any of the above changes the ideal path, please let me know.

Thanks so much for all the help, everyone. 

The bottom part tells me you’re starting to get it. But anyone with good size and still physically developing can exceed expectations. My son’s high school catching teammate went from JV soph year to D1 prospect junior year. The baseball people around your son will provide indications of where he fits in. 

Check his sixty time again this spring. With growth he may have been suffering from what I call giraffitis. Where did these longs legs come from? How do I use them properly? Both my kids grew quickly.** I sent my daughter (softball) to a college track powerhouse speed camp. My son did training specialized to running the sixty.

Listen to Fenway. He stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. All kidding aside from having been through it with engineering and boys of varying talent level he knows his stuff.

** Their feet grew first. They looked like a pair of shoes biking down the street.