60yd times (Getting Times down to 6.7 and below possible?)

No expert here, but I've read plenty of times on this site that improving one's technical and/or mechanical movements can lead to improvements in time.  If some kid turns in a 7.0 and really lacks good form (form expressly used for the 60yd dash), then improvements in form can shave off some time.  Won't necessarily make him faster in the field, but will help him get a better time in the 60yd.  

Kind of like practicing for the ACT  - won't make you smarter but having a better understanding of the process and some useful tips can get you some extra points.

Probably no real one size fits all answer here. In other words, it varies. One thing for sure is that instruction from a real quality speed guy can make a difference, particularly on the start positioning & first 10 yds. You could easily trim .20 here alone if the runner has no or bad technique.. Anything more would require huge effort & commitment.

I sent my son to training specific to running the sixty. It improved his running technique. Plus he got stronger. He cut his time from 6.8 to 6.6. Added strength in college got him to 6.5.

 Chances are a player isn't going to improve from 7.0 to 6.6 or 6.5. But improvement to 6.8 could change how he's perceived as a college prospect.

My son times between 6.5 and 6.8.  Has worked very hard at it.  Drills and exercises have included: form running (high knees, skips, long strides, back pedals), box jumps, broad jumps, jump rope, squats, and lunges.  He also sprints up and down a hill quite a bit.  

I hear you guys on trimming times.. I am just wondering if there are those out there hitting 6.7, 6.5, who really havent had to put in the work, or did they really have to bust their tails to get there??  It is also hard to say a certain time by a certain age because of the wide variation in the puberty time table (6 year window).

Not the best analog because I played football a million years ago, but I saw big gains in my 40 time and vertical leap, and explosiveness in general after starting power/Olympic-style lifting as part of my team's strength program -squats and power-cleans in particular.  A lot of my teammates also saw big gains.

Learning how to sprint with proper form was huge as well.  A lot of kids lose time when they are too tense in their shoulders and face, or if their head moves too much.  Not utilizing the arms properly -not enough or erratically- are big time drags as well.  I bet there are a bunch of youtube videos out there that teach proper sprinting form.  Good luck!

My kid was sitting around 7 and he got down to 6.7 after literally one lesson from a speed coach.

It was a very good lesson!  I think he could have done a little more but the coach is 2 hours away, and he committed soon after so there was no point.

LU 57 posted:

Not the best analog because I played football a million years ago, but I saw big gains in my 40 time and vertical leap, and explosiveness in general after starting power/Olympic-style lifting as part of my team's strength program -squats and power-cleans in particular.  A lot of my teammates also saw big gains.

Learning how to sprint with proper form was huge as well.  A lot of kids lose time when they are too tense in their shoulders and face, or if their head moves too much.  Not utilizing the arms properly -not enough or erratically- are big time drags as well.  I bet there are a bunch of youtube videos out there that teach proper sprinting form.  Good luck!

Thanks LU for the thoughts.  We are definitely working on his form, etc.  I am just trying to get a feel for where his ceiling may be.  Alot of it has to do with maturing physically.

A little work on form, but most improvement can be attributed to getting bigger and stronger for my son.  At 7.4 at 15yo, 7.1 at 16yo (growth spurt), 6.9 at 17yo (better form), 6.7 at 19yo (college workouts). 

JCG posted:

My kid was sitting around 7 and he got down to 6.7 after literally one lesson from a speed coach.

It was a very good lesson!  I think he could have done a little more but the coach is 2 hours away, and he committed soon after so there was no point.

So it sounds like he was really a 6.7 type guy already, and just needed to tweak his start/technique.  So did he have to put in a lot of work to get down to a 7.0 in the first place?  Or was that really where he just started timing his 60yd and just now getting ready to put work in?

He never really worked on the 60 because he didn't showcase a lot.  When he finally got round to it the numbers he was seeing were pretty horrible for a guy who lead his HS league in SB, like 7.2-7.3 until he worked on it by himself a bit. He got around 7 then this coach just taught him how to start and got him leaning forward.

RJM posted:

I sent my son to training specific to running the sixty. It improved his running technique. Plus he got stronger. He cut his time from 6.8 to 6.6. Added strength in college got him to 6.5.

 Chances are a player isn't going to improve from 7.0 to 6.6 or 6.5. But improvement to 6.8 could change how he's perceived as a college prospect.

LU 57 posted:

Not the best analog because I played football a million years ago, but I saw big gains in my 40 time and vertical leap, and explosiveness in general after starting power/Olympic-style lifting as part of my team's strength program -squats and power-cleans in particular.  A lot of my teammates also saw big gains.

Learning how to sprint with proper form was huge as well.  A lot of kids lose time when they are too tense in their shoulders and face, or if their head moves too much.  Not utilizing the arms properly -not enough or erratically- are big time drags as well.  I bet there are a bunch of youtube videos out there that teach proper sprinting form.  Good luck!

Obviously no progress if no concerted and prolonged effort.  Son was a          6-8/215 who got down to 6.97 (from 7.47 freshman HS year) at two different showcases summer before senior year of HS.  Even though a PO, where simply "finishing the 60," (as Fenway says)  is expected, he felt he had to do all in his power to be "perceived (well) as a college prospect." 

LU57 mentioning power cleans and other Olympic style lifting, rings a bell also as I think the timing would be about right for son breaking 7.0 finally.

60-times I believe definitely falls under the category of "controlling what you can control."

#1 Assistant Coach posted:

RJM posted:

I sent my son to training specific to running the sixty. It improved his running technique. Plus he got stronger. He cut his time from 6.8 to 6.6. Added strength in college got him to 6.5.

 Chances are a player isn't going to improve from 7.0 to 6.6 or 6.5. But improvement to 6.8 could change how he's perceived as a college prospect.

LU 57 posted:

Not the best analog because I played football a million years ago, but I saw big gains in my 40 time and vertical leap, and explosiveness in general after starting power/Olympic-style lifting as part of my team's strength program -squats and power-cleans in particular.  A lot of my teammates also saw big gains.

Learning how to sprint with proper form was huge as well.  A lot of kids lose time when they are too tense in their shoulders and face, or if their head moves too much.  Not utilizing the arms properly -not enough or erratically- are big time drags as well.  I bet there are a bunch of youtube videos out there that teach proper sprinting form.  Good luck!

Obviously no progress if no concerted and prolonged effort.  Son was a          6-8/215 who got down to 6.97 (from 7.47 freshman HS year) at two different showcases summer before senior year of HS.  Even though a PO, where simply "finishing the 60," (as Fenway says)  is expected, he felt he had to do all in his power to be "perceived (well) as a college prospect." 

LU57 mentioning power cleans and other Olympic style lifting, rings a bell also as I think the timing would be about right for son breaking 7.0 finally.

60-times I believe definitely falls under the category of "controlling what you can control."

My 2019 would fall under prolonged effort here.  He works very hard and is seeing his 60yd time drop considerably each year, but he puts in a tremendous amount of effort.  HS Frosh Tryouts: 8.6, HS Soph Tryouts: 7.9, HS Jr Tryouts 7.2.  Another factor here in why he is dropping so much over his HS years is being a late bloomer.  Again, I just hear so many talk about speed cant be taught and either you have it or you dont, so I am curious to hear if there are those out there that are hitting the low 60s that say it was god gifted and just showed up? 

Linedrive_07 posted:

#1 Assistant Coach posted:

RJM posted:

I sent my son to training specific to running the sixty. It improved his running technique. Plus he got stronger. He cut his time from 6.8 to 6.6. Added strength in college got him to 6.5.

 Chances are a player isn't going to improve from 7.0 to 6.6 or 6.5. But improvement to 6.8 could change how he's perceived as a college prospect.

LU 57 posted:

Not the best analog because I played football a million years ago, but I saw big gains in my 40 time and vertical leap, and explosiveness in general after starting power/Olympic-style lifting as part of my team's strength program -squats and power-cleans in particular.  A lot of my teammates also saw big gains.

Learning how to sprint with proper form was huge as well.  A lot of kids lose time when they are too tense in their shoulders and face, or if their head moves too much.  Not utilizing the arms properly -not enough or erratically- are big time drags as well.  I bet there are a bunch of youtube videos out there that teach proper sprinting form.  Good luck!

Obviously no progress if no concerted and prolonged effort.  Son was a          6-8/215 who got down to 6.97 (from 7.47 freshman HS year) at two different showcases summer before senior year of HS.  Even though a PO, where simply "finishing the 60," (as Fenway says)  is expected, he felt he had to do all in his power to be "perceived (well) as a college prospect." 

LU57 mentioning power cleans and other Olympic style lifting, rings a bell also as I think the timing would be about right for son breaking 7.0 finally.

60-times I believe definitely falls under the category of "controlling what you can control."

My 2019 would fall under prolonged effort here.  He works very hard and is seeing his 60yd time drop considerably each year, but he puts in a tremendous amount of effort.  HS Frosh Tryouts: 8.6, HS Soph Tryouts: 7.9, HS Jr Tryouts 7.2.  Another factor here in why he is dropping so much over his HS years is being a late bloomer.  Again, I just hear so many talk about speed cant be taught and either you have it or you dont, so I am curious to hear if there are those out there that are hitting the low 60s that say it was god gifted and just showed up? 

My son got to 6.5. I ran a 6.6. His mother was a track star. His sister, played college softball was also fast. My father was a Big Ten running back. 

Interesting thread..always peaked when I see one on speed and 60 times. Initially being "fast" is God-given.. so son probably would be able to run a sub 7.00  60 time by "just showing up." What made him an elite runner was the work he puts in. When he ran a showcased 6.89 (I think) winter of freshman year, he was told by the evaluator that his running and quickness would be an asset in recruiting. So while he worked at arm strength (his low grade back then) he was told to "strengthen his strength" As others have mentioned getting stronger just by developing got him into the 6.7s. He took up indoor track his sophomore-senior years (winter season) where he ran sprints and worked on form with track coach. Then he was seeing 6.5s consistently. His best 60 in HS showcase was 6.40 which was December his junior year (smack in the middle of indoor track); once he got that time, he didn't think he could go lower and recruitment was in full throttle. He had purchased a weighted vest/gear that he uses in college during fall as well. He has focused more (and did towards the end of HS) on HTF times which college scouts and coaches wanted to see. If your son is a speedster, then it's best to go to a number of different showcases where his time can drop (more chances the better). As my son saw, conditions can vary greatly--weather, surfaces, etc. He also looked for the fastest gut to run with, if the 60's were run in pairs. Run straight and run past the line--many slow up.  Good luck.

RJM, so you knew he most likely had the potential based on genetics, so I gather from this and your previous post is that he may of been the type of Athlete that would of been a 7.0 -6.8 type runner without having to really hit the weights or do any speed training?  From there he worked hard and was able to hit 6.5?  Fair to say?

Linedrive_07 posted:

I hear you guys on trimming times.. I am just wondering if there are those out there hitting 6.7, 6.5, who really havent had to put in the work, or did they really have to bust their tails to get there??  It is also hard to say a certain time by a certain age because of the wide variation in the puberty time table (6 year window).

The answer to the question is definitely yes. There are those that are 6.7, 6.5 who are just gifted & can fly.

My 2017 catcher had, for a catcher, well above average speed. But virtually zero training in how to run a 60 in terms of "form 101". So he downloaded a few YouTube videos, watched, and practiced a few times for a few days and ran a 6.95 at his preferred D3 camp. And that was with no formal instruction and, frankly, not much work. I suspect with full refining of his technique via coaching and moderate practice, he could have gotten down to 6.8 or so. Any improvements after that would have taken oodles of time and effort and as a catcher, he put the time in catching techniques, arm conditioning, and hitting.

At the end of the day, you can see who has excellent/optimized 60 dash technique vs. those who just "fly."

I think technique can definitely drop a 60yd by .2.  I think the biggest two contributors that correlate the most are explosiveness shown in the vertical and broad jumps.  The vertical is a good indicator of your 10yd time, then your broad jump potential really kicks in after that.  Obviously doing those jumps aren’t going to cause your 60 to drop but putting in the work that affects the two will.  

I know it is a difficult question to answer.  I know for some it sounds like their 60yd potential was identified early when they were around a 7, and then probably put in a lot of work getting down to a 6.5.  I am guessing this would be for the majority of 6.5s

Linedrive_07 posted:

RJM, so you knew he most likely had the potential based on genetics, so I gather from this and your previous post is that he may of been the type of Athlete that would of been a 7.0 -6.8 type runner without having to really hit the weights or do any speed training?  From there he worked hard and was able to hit 6.5?  Fair to say?

Yes. The weird thing is after training his stride had a smooth glide to it. He was faster than he looked. Some players look like they’re churning up the bases coming around second. He looked like a glider.

RJM, I know what you mean... It seems like those that glide are better balanced between Quad and Hamstring strength, while the others are more Quad dominant.

Linedrive_07 posted:

RJM, I know what you mean... It seems like those that glide are better balanced between Quad and Hamstring strength, while the others are more Quad dominant.

Yeah, look at usain bolt, he often looked like he didn't even try. A pushing quad dominant style is better for accelerating on the first 50-60 feet but that modern pulling sprinting style is better for top speed and maintaining it.

Not sure how relevant this is for baseball through as most sprints in baseball are like 30-100 feet. So not sure how much sense it makes to develope good top speed mechanics but if coaches look at the 60 it might be worth it. If you look at top sprinters their mechanics from 0-30 meters look much different than the mechanics they use the rest of the race.

Dominik85 posted:

Linedrive_07 posted:

RJM, I know what you mean... It seems like those that glide are better balanced between Quad and Hamstring strength, while the others are more Quad dominant.

Yeah, look at usain bolt, he often looked like he didn't even try. A pushing quad dominant style is better for accelerating on the first 50-60 feet but that modern pulling sprinting style is better for top speed and maintaining it.

Not sure how relevant this is for baseball through as most sprints in baseball are like 30-100 feet. So not sure how much sense it makes to develope good top speed mechanics but if coaches look at the 60 it might be worth it. If you look at top sprinters their mechanics from 0-30 meters look much different than the mechanics they use the rest of the race.

 

It is definitely relavant for the 60yd showcasing, and then coming into play scoring from 2nd on a single, etc.  My 2019 is quad dominant right now, so it’s a work in progress for him.

My 2021 ran a 6.5/6.6 60 on natural talent alone. We sent him to a very well respected speed/agility trainer last year for some technique help when we realized what an asset his speed was. That trainer's first response was "yeah, he's fast, but he can be faster." He teaches a combination of specific strength training exercises and techniques to improve speed. So as others here have said, a player can definitely improve their speed to some extent. But keep in mind, natural speed is a result of physical attributes (check out the Sports Gene by David Epstein for more info). So there is a limit as to how much increase there can be.

Zia2021 posted:

My 2021 ran a 6.5/6.6 60 on natural talent alone. We sent him to a very well respected speed/agility trainer last year for some technique help when we realized what an asset his speed was. That trainer's first response was "yeah, he's fast, but he can be faster." He teaches a combination of specific strength training exercises and techniques to improve speed. So as others here have said, a player can definitely improve their speed to some extent. But keep in mind, natural speed is a result of physical attributes (check out the Sports Gene by David Epstein for more info). So there is a limit as to how much increase there can be.

Of course there are some that are natural athletes while most are not, which is why in my original statement/question, being an athlete was presumed.  If your 2021 was already hitting a 6.5 by just showing up,it would make sense that he would have 6.2 potential if he puts in the work.  I am going to guess he is pretty matured physically for a 2021..  

Linedrive_07 posted:

Zia2021 posted:

My 2021 ran a 6.5/6.6 60 on natural talent alone. We sent him to a very well respected speed/agility trainer last year for some technique help when we realized what an asset his speed was. That trainer's first response was "yeah, he's fast, but he can be faster." He teaches a combination of specific strength training exercises and techniques to improve speed. So as others here have said, a player can definitely improve their speed to some extent. But keep in mind, natural speed is a result of physical attributes (check out the Sports Gene by David Epstein for more info). So there is a limit as to how much increase there can be.

Of course there are some that are natural athletes while most are not, which is why in my original statement/question, being an athlete was presumed.  If your 2021 was already hitting a 6.5 by just showing up,it would make sense that he would have 6.2 potential if he puts in the work.  I am going to guess he is pretty matured physically for a 2021..  

He pretty mature physically for almost 15 years old based on the measure that he is well into puberty now. However, he's not a big, tall kid. I think he's about 5'8" or 5'9" right now. We aren't optimistic that he's going to be real tall (but we hope lol). 

Zia2021 posted:

Linedrive_07 posted:

Zia2021 posted:

My 2021 ran a 6.5/6.6 60 on natural talent alone. We sent him to a very well respected speed/agility trainer last year for some technique help when we realized what an asset his speed was. That trainer's first response was "yeah, he's fast, but he can be faster." He teaches a combination of specific strength training exercises and techniques to improve speed. So as others here have said, a player can definitely improve their speed to some extent. But keep in mind, natural speed is a result of physical attributes (check out the Sports Gene by David Epstein for more info). So there is a limit as to how much increase there can be.

Of course there are some that are natural athletes while most are not, which is why in my original statement/question, being an athlete was presumed.  If your 2021 was already hitting a 6.5 by just showing up,it would make sense that he would have 6.2 potential if he puts in the work.  I am going to guess he is pretty matured physically for a 2021..  

He pretty mature physically for almost 15 years old based on the measure that he is well into puberty now. However, he's not a big, tall kid. I think he's about 5'8" or 5'9" right now. We aren't optimistic that he's going to be real tall (but we hope lol). 

Ha, I hear you.  I learned a while back that there is a pretty big window in development when going through puberty.  It is very difficult to compare apples to apples during the teens, for example two 14 year olds based on calendar, one can be 17 with regards to puberty and the other 11, so they can be up to 3 years ahead or up to 3 years behind.  My 2019 for instance is roughly 2.5years behind per his physician, which makes for a very interesting/challenging baseball pursuit to say the least.. Ha