90 mph pitcher but 65 mph catchers

quote:

Originally posted by micdsguy:
How do coaches handle this difficult situation:

Dream pitcher shows up for the first day of freshman ball, 6'3" 14-year old who tops out near 90 and throws nasty curves at 78. A bit on the wild side, not ready for varsity.

Micdsguy, Based on what u are saying I don't think to many coaches have had 14 yr olds showing up throwing 90. But assuming what u say is accurate...if u have a good 14 yr old catcher he will catch up to the pitcher eventually or be badly bruised. One word practice, practice practice ( or is that 3 words).

[/QUOTE]Dream pitcher shows up for the first day of freshman ball, 6'3" 14-year old who tops out near 90 and throws nasty curves at 78. A bit on the wild side, not ready for varsity. [QUOTE]

Umm It is very unlikely that a kids a curve faster than the averagee fastball for his age.

The catchers will have 2 step it up regardless.

When I was a 11, I was catching a kid who threw in the low to mid 70's. It wasnt too difficult to get used to but if this guy is out of control, that speed wont do **** for him.

the next...1 - If he really has a 90 mph fastball, his curve probably is around 78 mph. BTW, I like your avatar!

Anyways...back to the point of the post. This is a somewhat common problem for HS teams when they have a legit 90 mph guy...finding someone who can catch him. I remember our son's HS team had 3 guys in the high 80's to 90 during his junior year...catcher broke his hand catching them...moved to the OF. Add on top of that the ability to just catch the ball and keep the umpire from getting beat up. It creates some difficulties all around.

Not an easy problem to solve.

I was being hypothetical, but my example wasn't outlandish. Nationwide, there are a few dozen HS freshmen who are NEAR or at the 90 mph level. (use your own definition of "near")

Chatted last week with an 18 year old varsity catcher who caught 90+ for the first time. He said it was terrifying. And this was a kid with plenty of experience handling the low 80s.

micdsguy,

We actually see this played out at times in underclassmen events. Usually the catchers do all right so long as the 90 mph is straight. However, we’ve also seen high school seniors who can’t handle the 90+ mph guys with lots of life. In fact, it really takes a high level catcher to handle the “live” 90+ fastball, especially those that sink. Lots of real sore thumbs, even on the experienced catchers!

I’d be tempted to move that 14 year old up to the varsity. There’s only a handful of kids that age who can throw 90. I’ve seen lots of low 80s high school varsity pitchers who are wild, might as well see what he can do. A 6-3 freshman throwing 90 with a wicked curveball would have to be a lot more than just “a bit wild” to keep off the team.

I caught two pitchers who threw 90+ while in college. One played for our team and the other had already graduated and worked out with us getting ready for spring training. Both played mlb. Bruce Berenyi (Reds, Mets) and Dave Wehrmeister(sp) (Padres).

I was a soph (transfered so it was my first year at the school). Wehrmeister asked me to catch him. I said OK. WOW. If they are slightly wild it's a chore.

Here's what happened to my roommate, another catcher, while catching Wehrmeister. (He had caught Rick Sutcliffe in high school and summer ball) He was about 15' in front of a concrete block wall. Wehrmeister let it fly. Went over roommates head and before he could turn to look, the ball hit the wall, rebounded, and hit my roomate in the back of the head.

The heavy fastball that breaks down and in to a right hand hitter is brutal on a catchers thumb. You have so little time that you can't even turn your glove over to catch it. So, you kind of swipe at it and if you catch it just wrong it hits the pad of the thumb and jams it. One of those and it won't go away for the entire season if you keep playing. Any kind of bump reinjures it. Over and over and over.

I know exactly what you are talking about. Then if you reinjury it during a game you can't even swing a bat. I faught a thumb injury my whole sophmore year. Thanks to a Hard throwing lefty with lots of life, a bit wild with control as well.

80 at the freshman level is dominate. Your talking 90 that has no business on freshman.

I can attest to that. 80 on JV will just about blow everyone away in my experiences.

I have seen this problem several times over the last few years - catchers who can't handle the speed/break of the pitcher. One particularly memorable one was the time the pitcher really snapped off the curve, the glove was late tracking down... and the catcher was properly equipped and proved it... I thought I was going to die trying not to laugh...

Only solution is to make them play catch together as often as possible - warm ups at practice, every bullpen, etc... If the arm is throwing, the catcher needs to be on the other end.

A freshman needs innings - and if he won't get them on varsity, then JV is where he will need to stay. If the team is really deep in pitching on varsity, then start him once a week on JV and get him those innings...

This happens at teh varsity level as well and unfortunetly sometimes teh 90+ guy needs to adjust, not be able to throw what he wants because he knows the catcher can't handle teh ball.
We needed a catcher in HS for my son and no one stepped up to the plate (so to speak). One sophomore pitcher took on the job and it wasn't easy, but he did the best he could.
Adjustments just have to be made by all.

I've always loved the closing signature from one of our posters

quote:

Catching Coach ...
Kid with a 90MPH fastball......Potential
Kid with a 90MPH fastball and a great catcher....Results

I've seen a few real disasters from a game and personal safety perspective when a hard throwing pitcher with a sinking fastball is paired with an unexperienced catcher. IMO, move the pitcher up to varsity.

And it's not only the hard-throwing pitcher who can have this type of mis-match, but sometimes just a good curveball. When my son was a freshman he played position on varsity but was the main pitcher for JV, and no JV catcher could handle his curveball, which was often the "out" pitch for a K. I recall one inning when he struck out 5 batters before they got 3 outs.

I'm trying hard tp picture a 90 mph pitcher with a great breaking ball pitching in JV games.

I'm sure there are some high schools (Russell County, AL. for one) who have 2 or 3 90+ guys on varsity, but most (almost all) high schools in the country are luckt to have one above mid 80s.

Just based on this freshman's velocity and breaking ball... isn't he too good for JV baseball? He'd have to be terribly wild before I'd let him assault my JV catchers.

If you want to separate catchers quickly then have them catch velocity with movement. Alot of times you will see kids at the catching posistion and they all look like they are pretty good. Then you put them out there with a guy that throws hard and has movement on his pitches and you can see very quickly who has the true ability. There are alot of kids who can handle the low 80's with movement. But when you start getting up to the upper 80's and beyond it takes a kid with some special skills to not only handle it but recieve it the right way.

Personally I do not believe that you can teach a kid to be able to handle great stuff. I think there is alot of natural ability that comes into play here. JMO

I'm reading this thread with interest. Last season (son's JR year) my LHP grew tired of watching his 3rd strike go between the catcher's legs. Our catcher kept standing up as my lefties pitch came in. He was afraid, and he was a senior! He would either miss the ball or block the umpire.
This year our varsity will have only 2 returning players, my son and another LHP. Our best hope for a catcher had shoulder surgery during Dec. and might not play. He was only a soph., but good.
So..... we're facing my son's SR season with several pro scouts planning to attend. Hopefully the scouts are disciplined enough to watch my son pitch and not pay attention to the play (or lack of play) on the rest of the field. Or maybe we'll all be pleasantly surprised and the younger players will be hungry enough to rise the occasion! Either way, my son is preparing himself to maintain his focus no matter what happens. It might be tough since the presence of pro scouts is so important to him.
TPM...I hear what you're saying about adjusting to the team around you, but I'd hate for him to change how he pitches when he's being watched. It's not like we can sit beside the scout and say, "you know, he can throw harder but our catcher can't handle it."

quote:

I'm trying hard to picture a 90 mph pitcher with a great breaking ball pitching in JV games.

Me too!! We could probably find some innings for him in the Sunbelt Conference.

KC
Don' be shocked if someone adjusts and steps up to be a backstop. If not, scouts are generally undestanding. Either way, not much we can do about it, but PLEASE keep us updated. When does practice start? First game?

KC,
Don't worry about it. They know what they are looking for. I didn't mean that your son had to change the way he pitches.

I don't think we give scouts enough credit sometimes.

Been there KCBaseball, very first game of the preseason senior year. Coach tries out a brand new catcher......what a nightmare for everyone! You are right on, he'll need to keep his composure and keep throwing his stuff. Good Luck!

PG

Those are some good prospects!

I'm sure you already know that already though-LOL

Shep

KC,

In some ways a catcher struggling to handle a good pitcher makes the pitcher look even better to the scouts.

In fact, we just saw this a couple weeks ago in Florida.

It still boils down to the pitchers ability... not the score of the game or the stats. Though; it sounds like he might have some big K totals this year.

Given that 90 MPH pitchers are rare in HS, how does a kid learn how to catch it? Do you ever crank up a pitching machine and have him catch it?

This is my first year at the High School level as Im a freshman.Last Year Was the first year I caught someone with a fastball in the 80s and it wasnt all too difficult.The first pitch of two seemed fast but after that you settle in.This year I have caught even faster.Only thing Im having a little trouble with is smothering a Curve in the dirt coming in at atleast 70+ mph

quote:

Given that 90 MPH pitchers are rare in HS, how does a kid learn how to catch it? Do you ever crank up a pitching machine and have him catch it?

We simulate 90 by me throwing as hard as I can to my son... 12 feet away,

As for cranking the pitching machine up i don't think it helps. Just like we've been saying the movement is the key. Being a catcher, I've had coaches turn on the machine to work on recieving the ball its to easy, useless practice. Catching a machine and a pitcher are totally different.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PGStaff:
I'm sure there are some high schools (Russell County, AL. for one) who have 2 or 3 90+ guys on varsity, but most (almost all) high schools in the country are lucky to have one above mid 80s.
QUOTE]
Heath Kentucky will have 2 90+ guys this year. Clint Tilford a UK signee and Daniel Webb an 08 who hit 91 at a camp last weekend.

quote:

but most (almost all) high schools in the country are lucky to have one above mid 80s.

Most are lucky to have one above low 80s. This board has a heavy bias toward elite HS players and D-1/D-2 college types. That's good, but it can discourage the 80+% of HS players who will never throw 80.

My son has been very lucky to have an older sister who a softball pitcher. When he was about 12 I bribed him to catch for his sister at her lessons & clinics. Well he hated to catch for her, but he realized it was good pratice for him.(also being around so many older girls might have had something to do with it too!) That was 4 years ago. His sister throws in the mid 60's which converts to a 90+ fastball in baseball. She has so much movement on her pitches he now has no problem catching anybody no matter what they throw. They both helped each other. She became the best softball pitcher from our area (now playing Div I )and he is considered one of the best catcher's in the area.

Doesn't really convert to 90+.

The closing speed of 90mph is much faster than that of 60mph.

Isn't it well that the excersize worked, then?

Linear is correct, equivalent baseball speed is 78.26 MPH.

Slight correction ..... 65 MPH softball converts to 85 MPH baseball.

And no matter the physics, great that it worked for both!

Snoop

You are missing the point.

The closing speed is the speed it's going when "you have to handle it" or "deal with it".

You are figuring reaction equivalencies. And they are pretty close.

But, the speed the ball is going as it enters your hitting or catching zone is still 60mph (softball) or 90mph (baseball) in this example.

The speed the ball is going when you have to catch it or hit it is what really matters.

Linear ..... if you are saying that on a 90 MPH fastball you have to decide where to swing when the ball is farther away from you than with a 60 MPH softball, then I agree (same reaction time .... ball travels farther at 90 than 60).

No need to speak for Linear, but I think he means...

A 60 mph softball will slow down and be something less than 60 by the time the catcher needs to receive the ball. Let's say 55 mph as an example.

The 90 mph baseball will also slow down 6-8 mph, but will be traveling (let's say) 84 mph when the catcher receives the ball.

Thus, there is a HUGE difference between catching 84 mph and 55 mph at the glove!

I never thought of it that way, until reading Linear's post. Thanks!

If I may add, Try catching one of those 65MPH sister pitches at a little over half the distance of MLB reg. and see how fast it looks.

Believe it Alley about son's motives to be so helpful at all those events with the friends.
Kinda reminds me of somebody dropping in for dinner unannounced in the ladies forum-LOL

PG, apologize to you and Andy about the slide show the Mrs. put together. She has these ideas sometimes. Don't know where they come from...Gayle does send her best though.

Guess I should hire her as my PR person!!!!!!

Shep

Last year when my son was a freshman, he was the #2 guy on varsity. The catcher was a junior, a legend in his own mind. He couldn't handle my son's curveball. His skills were shown to be less than adequate and he didn't like it. He told my son to "stop throwing that krap, you're making me look bad."
He looked bad all right, but my son continued about his business of striking people out while dropped third strike curves became the rule of the day for this catcher...........
They'll be teaming up again this season, with my son now the top guy and throwing about 10 mph harder than last year. It'll be interesting to hear what the catcher comes up with this time around. If you can't handle the pitches, get out of the kitchen.

Hit against a 60mph thrower from a closer distance and then hit against 90 from 60'6".

Your timing will be way off because the point the ball is at when you say "swing" against a 60mph (even though reaction time is approx the same) will get your bat broken against 90.

The mind learns to swing when the ball is X feet in front of you. That may work for 60mph but 90mph will still eat you up because the ball is going so much faster in the last few feet than if thrown by a 60mph thrower.