A Baseball Thread about Starting Back

Having a no-steal from 1B rule would eliminate a lot of contact.  I know it's heresy but you did say it was rec players.

I would honestly ask all participating parents first about what they think. If they don't care, and they shouldn't right now, I wouldn't be enforcing any social distancing stuff with players, dugouts, etc. Fans sure if you want to. There is no science that shows anything mentioned would transmit outside (on balls, equipment, etc). There is no proof that any potential case could be tracked to an exact date and time at a ballfield. So I don't think there is any liability to worry about. I would guess if you told the organization "we're playing baseball like it always has been", everyone will jump to do it. 

My son's summer team started back to practice last week.  The coach asked each player/parent to sign a waiver acknowledging the risk, and assuming responsibility for the risk.  Practice is limited to 6 players per session, and they are keeping a distance.

I’ve heard of each team having their own set of balls. So Team A never touches Team B’s baseballs other than with their bat.  Cuts down the number of possible cross?  
maybe consider staggered time of arrival.  I think key is minimizing contact at bottlenecks (parkinglot etc). 
My LHP is a finger licker big time. He doesn’t like to have dirt on his fingertips at all for certain pitches.  We’ve been talking about ways he could “de-dust” his hands this summer if we get to return to play.  Maybe a microfiber towel to wipe the fingers off kept in the back pocket?  I honestly don’t know. 

Your list seems reasonable and easy to follow. You could probably add no seeds or gum. 

Which state are you in? Did they just open it up completely or were there restrictions?

Sounds like it is local in nature... encourage no car pooling.  Limit mound visits and make it coach and pitcher only with distancing.  Address food/snack situation... maybe suggest sending kids with snacks in bag and no concessions or post-game gatherings.

"No good deed goes unpunished" - Oscar Wilde

Before you do anything make sure you can be insured adequately for managing a team or having event insurance.   Years ago, I used to manage and coach and I know insurance was part of the gig.  At that time, I was concerned about teeth, concussions, etc...   Today, you have much bigger issues with a virus that has the potential to kill people.    You don't want to be in a position where you are responsible for others irresponsibility especially around Covid-19.   Before doing anything associated with players and parents, I would talk to the insurance carriers to make sure you can be covered and what those details include and not include. 

As always, JMO.

No spitting

@LousyLefty posted:

I’ve heard of each team having their own set of balls. So Team A never touches Team B’s baseballs other than with their bat.  Cuts down the number of possible cross?  
maybe consider staggered time of arrival.  I think key is minimizing contact at bottlenecks (parkinglot etc). 
My LHP is a finger licker big time. He doesn’t like to have dirt on his fingertips at all for certain pitches.  We’ve been talking about ways he could “de-dust” his hands this summer if we get to return to play.  Maybe a microfiber towel to wipe fingers off kept in the back pocket?  I honestly don’t know. 

When I talked to mine about the rules he went dead I can’t pitch without licking my fingers.  He may have a tough time this summer if college summer league gets going.   I think everyone will have that rule to some extent 

Mine is a little simpler than others. We are taking 24 players so we are limiting the pool. We will pick teams each week to make sure the teams stay equal and to allow for vacations and hopefully stop blowouts. I have done this in the past and it somewhat keeps the level of competition but stops a lot of the win loss controversies. The good part is I’m only dealing with 24 sets of parents and not a big league. My main intent was to help our JV program which is 7th through 10th grade.  I would love to do varsity but our field is only 280 and there are houses sitting around the field and I don’t want to have to pay for windows or cars.   I’m hoping if the South Carolina high school league allows players to go back to school on facilities that we can start a varsity league on our high school field

This was posted by the USABL - they run the summer leagues here in NJ - and has a Dr and her opinion on this topic.

https://www.facebook.com/USABL...eos/467172670748484/

A hitter gets ready in the on deck circle. He goes to the plate. He’s sweating. Obviously his hands/gloves are on the bat. He hits a stand up double. Who picks up the bat? 

in every scenario I’ve been in there are two processes. A little brother is the bat boy or the next hitter tosses the bat towards the on deck circle, the on deck batter flips it to the edge of the dugout. Someone in the dugout grabs it.

@PitchingFan posted:

When I talked to mine about the rules he went dead I can’t pitch without licking my fingers.  He may have a tough time this summer if college summer league gets going.   I think everyone will have that rule to some extent 

If you figure something out let me know. I am going through this with my 15 year old lefty also. We went and threw a bullpen this past Saturday at our team facility. Know there was going to be other kids there and possibly using a ball that was previously used, I told him on the car ride in that there was no licking his fingers. You would have thought I took away his Playstation. I had to explain to him why I told him that and that he was going to have to get used to it because when we start playing I am pretty sure that is not going to be allowed. I had to tell him that if he does it for grip, then he needs to get used to a rosin bag. 

@RJM posted:

A hitter gets ready in the on deck circle. He goes to the plate. He’s sweating. Obviously his hands/gloves are on the bat. He hits a stand up double. Who picks up the bat? 

in every scenario I’ve been in there are two processes. A little brother is the bat boy or the next hitter tosses the bat towards the on deck circle, the on deck batter flips it to the edge of the dugout. Someone in the dugout grabs it.

May not make a big difference, but may have to tell the people who are picking up the bat, to pick it up by the barrel and not the handle. 

Or maybe like you said, there is a designated person who picks up all bats. ESPN2 had on live cornhole yesterday, LOL, and it was a total of 6 people at the match. The 4 players and one person seated 6 feet behind each board. Those two guys had on gloves and would pick up the bean bags and separate them into the appropriate pile after each turn was over. 

Not sure why everyone has listed "concessions" as a no-go. Everybody in the country is picking up carry-out (mostly inside the restaurant while maintaining distance) or having food delivered. Is it because you can see the person preparing the food? So now you REALLY know where your food is coming from?

As far as liability is concerned, I am sure you are only as liable as the gov't restrictions dictate,  e.g. did you follow the mandate?

By the way, nobody arrives at the grocery store or home supply store in a staggered format so why should they do that when arriving at a baseball game? We ARE social-distancing at all times when entering the store, correct?  

Sorry, there I go again with that common sense stuff...

Of course I think all of this is totally ridiculous but of course I will have to comply in order to see some baseball.

Which just makes me angry.

@ABSORBER posted:

Not sure why everyone has listed "concessions" as a no-go. Everybody in the country is picking up carry-out (mostly inside the restaurant while maintaining distance) or having food delivered. Is it because you can see the person preparing the food? So now you REALLY know where your food is coming from?

As far as liability is concerned, I am sure you are only as liable as the gov't restrictions dictate,  e.g. did you follow the mandate?

By the way, nobody arrives at the grocery store or home supply store in a staggered format so why should they do that when arriving at a baseball game? We ARE social-distancing at all times when entering the store, correct?  

Sorry, there I go again with that common sense stuff...

Of course I think all of this is totally ridiculous but of course I will have to comply in order to see some baseball.

Which just makes me angry.

By everyone I don't mean anyone on this site. I've seen it mentioned numerous times in plenty of other articles/news.

PitchingFan,

Thanks for starting this thread. I saw a few other people's posts today on this site talking about baseball starting up and I was going to start one as I am curious to see what everyone else is doing. 

Some local collegiate-leagues will be starting up around the country and I want to know what to expect!

I can deal with just about everything mentioned--for FANS--not players and umpires.  Sure, take some precautions like not sharing equipment, etc., but all of these should be things we should be doing on our own--like washing hands and flushing the urinal in the public restroom! 

Umpiring behind the mound may be fine in youth-leagues but kind of tough in a collegiate-league. I guess players need to be very aggressive at the plate!

I'm for protocols in place for fans and concessions (if you MUST). Nothing for players or the game itself. Until science shows it's affected, don't change the game or the experience. Once we start going that way it's going to be hard to get back. 

 

By the way, nobody arrives at the grocery store or home supply store in a staggered format so why should they do that when arriving at a baseball game? We ARE social-distancing at all times when entering the store, correct?  

Sorry, there I go again with that common sense stuff...

 

Because, as someone who works with 7th & 8th graders, common sense isn't exactly full capacity at this age group.  If he is following most states guidance (per CDC) temperatures will be checked as they come enter the field (now if you consider this the ballpark entrance or the gate to the field might change things) that is a bottleneck and players who haven't learned to recognize personal space yet are highly unlikely to observe a 6ft guideline.   

@LousyLefty posted:

Because, as someone who works with 7th & 8th graders, common sense isn't exactly full capacity at this age group.  If he is following most states guidance (per CDC) temperatures will be checked as they come enter the field (now if you consider this the ballpark entrance or the gate to the field might change things) that is a bottleneck and players who haven't learned to recognize personal space yet are highly unlikely to observe a 6ft guideline.   

7th and 8th graders don't go to grocery stores or home improvement stores? OK, I guess not if they have a say in the matter! 

They are not driving themselves so I guess it's up to us parents to share some responsibility, like a good, responsible Swedish parent, oops, I mean American parents.

At least you should have about one parent per player on arrival which is much more than the player to coach ratio will be on the field and in the dugout. And you are going the keep them separated during the entire game?

Good luck!

@James G posted:

I would honestly ask all participating parents first about what they think. If they don't care, and they shouldn't right now, I wouldn't be enforcing any social distancing stuff with players, dugouts, etc. Fans sure if you want to. There is no science that shows anything mentioned would transmit outside (on balls, equipment, etc). There is no proof that any potential case could be tracked to an exact date and time at a ballfield. So I don't think there is any liability to worry about. I would guess if you told the organization "we're playing baseball like it always has been", everyone will jump to do it. 

I would strongly advise against that, even if you don't believe into corona someone could use that against you even if you let them sign a disclaimer.

You at least need to pretend that you have a strategy to minimize risk, just like mlb will be doing too. If you do that nobody can blame you that you didn't do everything, such a league is not the right time for stupid protests.

I would limit fans to one person per player, fans need to distance in stands. At offense only 3 players in dugout, the rest is in the stands. No mound visits either and no high fives or throwing around after an out. I don't think you need to sanitize balls though but everybody should use their own bat.

Maybe this is over the top but you need to protect yourself here and present a strategy for safety, then nobody can blame you for anything.

There is no 100% proof that could be actionable in any court of law or insurance matter that could show a virus was transmitted at an exact location and time. I think people are scared and not thinking rationally when it comes to "liability" for this. It isn't the same type of liability for physical injury. Honestly I wouldn't want to be part of a baseball game or league that altered the game that much, I would look for another option that allowed baseball to be baseball. Just because MLB has to have restrictions (which I don't agree with), doesn't mean local baseball has to have the same. Totally separate circumstances. I understand local government may want to enforce some measures for the facility and fans, but I would encourage everyone to not allow government to change how the game is actually played. It may be forever. 

We have no stands so that helps a little bit. And we have plenty a room down the sides for the players to separate. My thought was if they want to bring a chair to put in their personal space go for it. I understand all sides of this and I’m one who has not changed very little about my life other than church but I want to give some guys an opportunity to play. I am hoping our high school field opens up and I can do the same for our varsity guys and others around me Who are not playing travel

It sounds like some people don't want to return to life and baseball. Seriously? One parent per player? Come on! How big is a baseball field? Compare that to the size of your local grocery! And it's outside in the sun w/ 90+ degree temps!

Yep, stay home, don't play, sounds like it's not worth the time or trouble.

Or catch a movie at the local theater or go bowling since those establishments are starting to open. In GA, anyway. I always knew I liked GA!

Gonna miss Cartersville (4-Way Lunch) and Emerson (Doug's Place)  this year!

At that age, you probably need to tell them explicitly not to share equipment, water bottles or spit (seeds would be a no-go).

A local Travel organization sent this out. I think it's good, especially having the players using the area from dugout to dugout as an overflow dugout, which boots the parents ("keep your shoulder in!")from that area. 

On this document, you will find our 'Back to Play' Guidelines for instruction, games, practices, tryouts and facility usage.  There will be an ebb and flow to this document as needed and based on CDC and Minnesota Department of Health updates.  This document was co-authored with medical professionals along with MYAS and their “Safe Play” Back to the Diamond recommendations.  We are moving forward with facts and science.  If there are items that need to be adjusted based on fact, we will adjust swiftly.  The players are our priority !

Fields – Tryouts / Games / Tournaments

The coronavirus pandemic is first and foremost a human tragedy, affecting hundreds of thousands of people. It is also having a growing impact youth sports and including youth baseball games, seasons and training.  It affects the players, our employees, and the dedicated umpires who officiate games. The guidelines below are intended to create an environment in which  games, practices, tryouts and training can be accomplished while implementing strict safe and healthy social distancing guidelines. Please be mindful of the factors of public health, social distancing, and societal well-being to allow players and families the opportunity at a sense of normalcy as adjustments continue to be made at the state level.

The safety guidelines listed below are proposed additional measures to be taken before, during, and after tryouts / games /tournaments. All other key prevention strategies by the CDC and Minnesota Department of Health will be strictly followed, in order to promote safety and healthy social distancing.

TRYOUTS

• Check-in

All personnel will be required to wear CDC approved face masks at the check-in station (player forms/hats/player photos).  Players will be encouraged to wear face masks in pre-tryout communication.  Players will enter and exit tryouts through separate gates where possible.

• On-field Tryout Process (Day 1)

• Players will be divided up onto different fields to meet MN DOH group gathering guidelines (i.e. keep the number of people per field under the recommended limit).
• Players will be instructed to keep equipment out of the dugout and place equipment along fences, meeting socially distanced approved guidelines
• One coach per field will be specifically tasked with making sure players waiting their turn are following social distancing guidelines.
• Hand sanitizer / disinfectant wipes will be available to players after handling baseballs during their tryout process
• Players will NOT be allowed to share equipment and players and coaches are asked to refrain from high fives or any other physical gestures of celebration
• Parents will NOT be allowed to spectate at tryouts.

• Call Back Game Process (Tryouts Day 2)

• Dugout: The dugout will be extended to behind the dugout to the backstop for both teams.

This is to allow players to practice social distancing throughout the game while their team is up to bat. Hand and equipment sanitizing between innings is recommended. No more than 3-5 individuals are permitted in the dugout at any given time (this is dependent on the size of the dugout). These individuals (players, coaches or any combination) must maintain all social distancing guidelines throughout the game. All other team personnel must practice social distancing in the extended area of the dugout, as referenced above.

 TEAM PRACTICES

Entering or Exiting Parks: If possible, all players and coaches will enter through one entrance and exit through another, observing state guidelines for social distancing. This scenario replicates the path of travel through grocery stores. In the event there is only one entrance to the park, teams will need to be cautious and courteous at the point of entry, observing all social distancing rules.                             

All recommendations for group size will be followed.  Players will be broken into smaller groups during practice to help enable social distancing on the field.

Hand sanitizer / disinfectant wipes will be made available to players at practice.

All players and coaches will be encouraged to follow CDC guidelines on wearing of a face mask.

GAMES / SCRIMMAGES

Entering or Exiting Parks: If possible, all players, coaches, and umpires will enter through one entrance and exit through another, observing state guidelines for social distancing. This scenario replicates the path of travel through grocery stores. In the event there is only one entrance to the park, teams will need to be cautious and courteous at the point of entry, observing all social distancing rules.                             

Dugout (Team Personnel): The dugout will be extended to behind the dugout to the backstop for both teams. This is to allow rostered players and up to three coaches per team to practice social distancing throughout the game while their team is up to bat. Hand and equipment sanitizing between innings is recommended.

No more than 6 individuals are permitted in the dugout at any given time (this is dependent on the size of the dugout). These individuals (players, coaches or any combination) must maintain all social distancing guidelines throughout the game. All other team personnel must practice social distancing in the extended area of the dugout, as referenced above.

Social Distancing: Parents and spectators have separate seating away from dugout. Spectators will not be allowed around the area of the backstop or dugouts. Only players, coaches, and the umpire(s) are allowed on the field of play. This means the game may be viewed along the foul lines starting at 1st/3rd base extending to the outfield and in the outfield area. Spectators may use the grandstand (if available) but must maintain social distancing guidelines.  The number of spectators allowed may be limited based on field set-up.

Game Protocol: At the pregame meeting and throughout the game, coaches and umpires will not be allowed to shake hands or have any physical contact with each other. All parties must maintain social distancing guidelines. No physical contact or touching is permitted.

Players and coaches are asked to refrain from high fives or any other physical gestures of celebration. All team personnel must always maintain social distancing guidelines. 

At the conclusion of the game, players will be asked to forego the sportsmanship line at the end of the game. Instead we are asking for each team to line up on their respective foul line and “tip their cap” as a salute to the other team to promote sportsmanship.

Equipment: It is highly recommended that team personnel carry hand sanitizer and disinfectant wipes with you to be used before, during and after the games, whenever appropriate, such as if/when you come into contact with the ball or any other players, coaches, or shared equipment (bases).

Please wear your batting gloves as much as possible, especially when handling a bat.

Refrain from sharing equipment in general. This includes but is not limited to bats, helmets, and catcher’s equipment.

Each team needs to provide their own baseballs/softballs for when they are in the field. Each team is responsible for switching out their baseballs/softballs each inning or sanitizing their baseballs/softballs as best as possible. Again, hand and equipment sanitizing between innings is recommended.

CDC approved face masks are recommended for everyone attending and playing. This includes spectators, players, coaches, umpires, and field crew.

Umpires: Umpires will be asked to officiate the game from behind the pitcher's mound, while practicing social distancing with all fielders. This will limit the number of people around home plate and will still allow the umpire to call the game and see the whole field. 

Umpires should wear a CDC approved facemask. Umpires should not handle baseballs/softballs, and should wear gloves if they intend to handle baseballs/softballs. Change gloves after each use when handling baseballs or softballs.

TOURNAMENTS

All GAME/SCRIMMAGE protocols will be followed with the following notes:

• Tournament will provide 2 baseballs/game to teams to swap-in/swap-out when they take or leave the field.
• Two-man umpire crew: home plate umpire is encouraged to wear a CDC approved mask.  If the tournament uses a single umpire for games, they will be encouraged to umpire from behind the

pitchers mound.

Masks while playing....end of discussion. 

@James G posted:

Masks while playing....end of discussion. 

Holy crap. 

Can't wait to see the 'Back to Play' guidelines for youth football in MN.  Defenders will not physically touch the offensive player, but now must  point their index finger and call out the number of the player they wish to tackle.  When the offensive player hears his number called, he must immediately take a knee.

stop it people, just stop with the insanity

You just solved the concussion problem.

PitchingFan started this thread asking specifically for some politically free ideas on how to establish social distance guidelines so he could successfully start a 13-14 league that would be accepted as doing things right with the general guidelines that exist today.  We should be applauding his efforts to actively be a part of getting things moving, which is ultimately what we all want.

Can't y'all just give him what he is asking for or find another thread to keep fighting your other battles?  IMO, if every thread keeps turning into the same back-and-forth, this site will lose its soul.

 BTW, my comment about limiting concessions wasn't about any pick up or carry-out issues as much as that it would likely encourage the traditional post-game gathering (ordering food and hanging out together at the picnic tables or whatever) of the large group at the event.  Probably something that can be worked around.

Until there is baseball to talk about on a baseball site, this is all there is. It is literally dictating almost every facet of human life. I think the feedback has been good because it might show him and other people thinking about running things how unrealistic and ridiculous it can be to enforce social distancing and such rules during a game with kids. Putting some measures in place for the facility itself if mandated by local government is fine. 

I don't care one way or the other if concession is open, but there better be a cheeseburger waiting for me when I get done umpiring a game.

I think it is important to keep things as simple as possible, and also have some flexibility in it based on new evidence.

The very long document from 57special will allow for things to be missed.  As far as masks, our local complex had a policy requiring them for players and all spectators, and we are in the south.  However, it seems that they relaxed it as my kid did his first practice and no masks were present. 

James G, your comments are contributing to the problem cabbagedad politely & firmly pointed out! So, I'll be direct:

1. Knock it off! 

2. Contribute something USEFUL for PitchingFan, or

3. Ignore, or pm the other malcontents.

Enough is enough

@baseballmom I'll leave this thread but offer this: please remember perception and opinion. If I was running something I would want to hear differing opinions. And it's my opinion what I was offering was useful (and looks like some others did too with agreeing). If my suggestions about not altering the game and trying to enforce restrictions with kids was met with support by parents, would that make it a problem? I suggested he look at state rules for facilities, that was a useful suggestion. But nowhere did I see a problem occurring or anyone mentioning a problem. We have been giving him feedback. Just because some may not like feedback doesn't mean it's unwarranted or should be suppressed. Thank you. 

@Opus X posted:

My son's summer team started back to practice last week.  The coach asked each player/parent to sign a waiver acknowledging the risk, and assuming responsibility for the risk.  Practice is limited to 6 players per session, and they are keeping a distance.

Waivers are just another hoop for a lawyer to jump through at best, mostly not worth the paper they are written on.

Some of the things offered here... at some point it's not really baseball or fun any more. It's not about protecting the kids, but maybe the parents/grandparents they go home to. 

@SomeBaseballDad posted:

Waivers are just another hoop for a lawyer to jump through at best, mostly not worth the paper they are written on.

Some of the things offered here... at some point it's not really baseball or fun any more. It's not about protecting the kids, but maybe the parents/grandparents they go home to. 

This is where I think leagues, teams, and most of all parents need to decide whether their kid should play and risk exposing the family. So is the goal to make it safe for every kid to play or to play in general. If my kid or anyone in our house had underlying health issues my son would not be allowed to play right now. Maybe this should be part of a coach/league meeting with parents.

@James G posted:

@baseballmom I'll leave this thread but offer this: please remember perception and opinion. If I was running something I would want to hear differing opinions. And it's my opinion what I was offering was useful (and looks like some others did too with agreeing). If my suggestions about not altering the game and trying to enforce restrictions with kids was met with support by parents, would that make it a problem? I suggested he look at state rules for facilities, that was a useful suggestion. But nowhere did I see a problem occurring or anyone mentioning a problem. We have been giving him feedback. Just because some may not like feedback doesn't mean it's unwarranted or should be suppressed. Thank you. 

Gotta defend @James G here...

Just got done completing a survey for Grand Park Sports (the survey is being administered by Indiana University--and I have to assume the results will be part of a larger IU study) and it asks opinions on almost all of what @PitchingFan put forth for comment. The survey allows respondents to answer from one extreme end of the spectrum to the other, including indifference. The only difference is there is no way to explain or enhance your answer.

So yes, it is OK to say some, all, or none of the ideas are bad (in your opinion). That's the reason it was put out there: for comment. What else would be expected? A standing ovation for the presentation of ideas?

And my opinion mostly centers on this:

We are all adults or children supervised by adults. We can and should be responsible for ourselves and our children. I don't need a "tournament" monitor to come up to me and say ,"Sir, I see you are seated a bit closer than 6 feet to the person next to you." Especially when that person next to me is my wife.

Those are the types of questions Grand Park is putting out there; they desperately want our opinions.

I know we may not agree but I really need to hear from both sides or all sides or some sides.  I do not plan on doing a parent's meeting because I do not think most of them care, but being a church that is putting on a league, I have to think and talk through every aspect of this adventure.  I was thinking of putting it off but since it seems my son's college league  might go through then I wanted to be there for it not watching other kids play.  Yes.  I am that dad. Won't apologize.