A Tree Falls in the Forest

What I want to say would be taken in the wrong light, so at least for me, I'm better off saying nothing at all.

As soon as I hit the "post now" button I regretted asking the question. Everyone please believe that it was an honest question born of sheer curiosity.

Traffic in Boston was unusually light.

I noticed a couple of places here in san diego closing walk up service and only serving at the drive-thru. Many restaurant workers were not in the workplace. That was the only thing I noticed and I really wasn't looking that hard.

One small restaurant near where I work was closed, but other than that, I saw no local impact.

I would be the wrong person to ask. I'm not only not politically correct, I despise the concept. We have a system that for the better or worse is what has been established by our Congress. Any method of entering the United States that deviates from that system is ILLEGAL. I have several students born in foreign countries in my classroom. To a student, they don't understand the hardships involved with becoming a citizen since all of their parents have gained citizenship. Naturally, most are the children of Doctors or professional people but the system regardless of socioeconomic issues worked. I pay taxes. If you work in America and don't, I foot the bill for you. I don't appreciate that. Well, I don't intend to offend. My Wife's Grandfather and Mom came to America from Lithuania. They worked on tomato farms and did odd work to make it here. The American dream does exist for legal immigrants as well as all of us. JMHO!

Coach,

I was born in Lithuania and speak the language, too. Came to America in 1949. I am older than the hills.

Biggest joke is the yearly restrictions placed on immigrants coming from so many countries and no restrictions from Mexico. Our "border" is laughable.

This too, shall pass.

Beenthere, my Mother-in-Law took great pride in both her homeland and being a US citizen. I want that for anyone willing to do it legally. You are so right that our borders are a joke. Homeland security? We can't even stem the tide of illegal immigration. We balk, as a society, when illegals are called to account for the $$$ they are costing us. Well, I didn't want to get going to much. YOU ARE THE EXAMPLE OF WHY OUR SYSTEM WORKS. THANK YOU!

I should know better than to post here but .... I never said I was too bright.

The folks I feel should be the most offended by this whole fiasco are the tons of LEGAL immigrants who took all the necessary steps to gain exactly the same thing, but did so legally.

This is like a giant slap in the face to those immigrants who like many of our forefathers came here legally to form this melting pot of a nation.

What concerns me is that I don't think we are getting through to our elected officials....and why is that?

It is simply wrong to have people who have broken the law out on the streets...protesting and demanding their rights.....only in America!

12 million are here mostly working. We can't send them back. Its physically impossible. We couldn't stop them from coming in the first place.

Put in an amnesty program, get them on the books and adopt a realistic immigration policy.

A geneologist documented an ancestor of mine who came to this country as an indentured servant, in return for passage and fees. He jumped ship as soon as they reached shore....300 years ago.

.

Politics and religion are two subjects that lead to thread disaster...So Without getting into the immigration argument directly...

IMO...

We are very nieve, and self centered if we think that yesterdays actions were not felt. Yes, it was felt. Not necessarily as a hardship in your and my lives but in the halls of Washington, and on the TV news shows....which was exactly where the organizers most wanted it to be. You can't put that many people (a million)in the streets without the politicians drooling for the votes that it represents. Yes I understand that many of those marching were illegal and so can't vote, but if the latino's mobilize and vote as a block there are enough to make a large impact given the tight nature of recent elections.

JMO.

44

Dad04

Genealogy is totally irrelevant as is the number of generations you have been here. My mothers ancestors are the originally founders of Hartford Ct and a few other Ct towns. Others came many generations later. Some of my fathers ancestors are Indian.

None of that matters. Had they all been born in a foreign country and immigrated this generation they would still be Americans. Americans are not all born - some go through the process to become citizens once they arrive. They are still Americans.

Those who are here illegally, using every loop hole they can find to stay here are NOT American citizens and the fact they make no effort to assimilate means they really don't want to be, they want to continue living as they are.

I sure hope you propose a few stipulations
if you plan to just "let them stay" like for instance:

pay up their back taxes (all of them no matter how many years - with the same fines any other person with back taxes must pay);

go through all the same steps legal immigrants must go through, with no special privileges for having been illegal regardless of how long;

stand in line behind all of those who have already applied legally;

and pay some sort of fine for past illegal actions (perhaps community service in the manner of teaching English as a second language).

It is not about how long you have been here. It's about being willing to obey our laws once you come.

quote:

pay up their back taxes (all of them no matter how many years - with the same fines any other person with back taxes must pay);

Blood from turnips. Good luck.

quote:

and pay some sort of fine for past illegal actions (perhaps community service in the manner of teaching English as a second language

They can pick up trash at the ball field with the drunk drivers. Just don't bill me for it. They can learn english like everyone else, when they feel like it. What do I care.

I'm looking at the situation with an ounce of practicality. They want to be here. Like it or not, and many don't, our economy needs them. An attempt to uproot 12,000,000 people and send them back would easily cost the Feds, not the most thrifty guys, $100,000 per person or $12 trillion sending the economy in to a depression.

A dose of reality would be benefitial.

I agree politics does not belong here.

Being from an area where the population is diverse and home to many who came illegally, it's quite hard to really understand the magnitude of the situation unless you are exposed to it everyday.
JMO.

You call it reality....I call it failure....the failure of our government to enforce it's laws.....

.....those politicians.....salivating for the immigrant's vote....they had better be ready for the back lash vote....because it will come....

Dad04....how about if we just don't legalize their status....why is that necessary?

.....and I live in an area where there are many, many illegals....and I do realize the effects....it's awful....

A colossal failure, we agree. I live it every day, dodging unlicensed drivers with no insurance, driving bad trucks on the way to build thousands of new houses around me, for all of the baby boomers to move in to. There has to be a better way.

They are underground and when they screw up, they go largely unpunished, and we go uncompensated. No, they can't just stay illegal, unless you can pay me when one runs me over, running from a cop cuz he's got no license and doesn't want to get sent back.

Traffic was a little less congested here in Dallas yesterday. News said some Mexican restaurants closed and a lot of construction work was slowed for the day. I didn't really notice it much.

I agree with Dennis Miller on the issue....I have no problem with immigrants coming to America as long as they sign the registry when they check in.

lol, dbat.

It may be interesting to use illegal immigrants as a volunteer border patrol, or even regular armed forces regular forces that would be rewarded with residency after a successful hitch. The military is a job, and a great way to get schooling/job training.

Up here in Iroquois country just about all of us are "illegal".

PioneerDad.....unlike the American Indian wars....this "illegal" takeover will be peaceful.....no guns and arrows......just the blessings of the United States Congress and Senate....

I don't know what the impact was here, I never left the house, dredded paper work. I do know there was a march and rally through downtown of about 3000-3500 people.

My husband's family came from England and Checkoslovakia, his parents are 1st gen "born here Americans"

My Family fought in the Revolutionary War.

Being self employed for many years, and now incorporated, we have struggled to get by, could not get a bank loan to buy a house...had to find folks who were willing to take a chance and owner finance back in the high interest 80's. (paid off!!)

Now business is good, we get along fine, even with the negative # years, have 2 boys in college, no government assistance ever, no loans, of course 1 in at a CC that costs about 1200 a YEAR, the other in STATE that runs about 6000 a YEAR, both have alittle scholarship money to reduce those #'s a small amount, 1 lives at home, the other 10 mins away with 3 other guys.

But it is HEALTH INSURANCE that is killing us, and we are not yet 50!

Not sure what everyone else does, but I guess my next bump is the $10,000.00 deductible. I think, hmmm we really haven't used this in 4 years, almost 10k a year.....

So I had to bring my Grandma to the hospital, she was in alot of pain, (we didn't know it at the time, but was urerter cancer). We go into the emergency room, and legal or not I have no idea, but there are at least 25 latinos waiting.
There is a line, but a nurse is coming along doing a triage, we wait and we hear over and over... do you have insurance? Insurance card please, someone translating, next next, same thing. The nurse told us, alot of people come to the emergency room because they have no insurance and if it is a medical emergency they must treat them, as it should be. But you do know who pays for them!

So a solution? I wish I had the answer.

There was a very interesting editorial (can't remember which paper as we take 6 of them) that basically asked this question - if it were a group of Arab (or other) illegal aliens doing the exact same thing would the American public view the problem in the same light?

Food for thought isn't it.

Dad 04

Blood out of a turnip? Perhaps you should look at your own pay stub and see just how much is taken out for state, federal, medicare taxes etc. then eliminate all your health care and auto insurance payments and tell me how much more spending money you would have.

Sure some of these folks take low paying jobs, - but compare their salary without any taxes to the take home pay of our many LEGAL immigrants who must pay taxes etc. on jobs that pay similar wages.

AParent...We'd just be careful as to where we park their camels.

0204mom, sorry for your grandma's illness. Insurance is indeed VERY expensive. If everyone at the hospital paid their fair share, including folks with social security numbers, we could both pay less.

Dad04.....what difference would a social security number make? Are not emergency rooms required to administer aid regardless? Legal....illegal...."medical emergencies" must be treated.

Also your point about driving....we were broadsided by 2 illegals...they ran a red light.....they took off without stopping.....but were eventually traced....what makes you think they would have stopped if they had a social security number or driver's insurance?

quote:

Are not emergency rooms required to administer aid regardless? Legal....illegal...."medical emergencies" must be treated.

Yes. You have made my point for me. The emergency rooms are full of people, legal and otherwise. The fact they lack insurance is incidental to their legal status.

I don't have to run from an accident if all I get is a traffic ticket, instead of a bus ticket.

I know there is a problem. Give me a practical solution.

Dad04....correct me if I'm wrong....but if they were not here......we would not be required to pay tax payers dollars to aid and assist....

....and sorry....but I don't think citizenship will stop hit and runs.....not at all.....auto insurance is expensive too.....

BBCoach1978:

And I'll follow your rant with the following...

PopTime:

Being in the lumber business I really like the name you selected for this thread. It got me to thinking about the status of our own forest products industry. It isn't what it used to be...not even close.

There certainly aren't too many American grown trees falling in the our woods these days...most trees that fall in the woods anymore fall in Canada, Scadinavia, Chile and other areas of South America, Africa, Germany, New Zealand, and even China.

And much of the lumber that is sawn from those trees (logs) immigrates here to the U.S.

The demand for lumber hasn't waned at all and the supply has kept up...it just doesn't come from our forests as much anymore.

Semi-rant over.

In the old west they had a term for this - these folks were called squatters - and they were not looked upon favorably back then either.

Comparing legal immigrants with these illegal immigrants is like comparing someone who buys the house you have up for sale with someone who moves into your house while you're away on vacation. The difference is pretty profound.

AParent.....excellent analogy.

gotwood (hehe..)...Never thought the thread would turn to logging but it's a free country!

PopTime:

The opportunity to semi-rant on this topic doesn't present itself too often. It was there, so I took it.

I did manage to wedge the immigration angle in there just a bit.

Thanks for the opportunity PopTime!

Around here a lot of lawns are waiting to be cut !@!!!

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Around here a lot of lawns are waiting to be cut !@!!!

My lawn included!

Just haven't had the opportunity lately, with games to watch, tournaments to see!

If the corporations that make their excessive profits off the backs of both "legal" and "illegal" immigrants did not own the corrupted US Congress and the President there would be stricter laws and a more rational approach to the immigrant issue. Ranting does not do any good to solve the problem. If you don't vote then shut up. If you vote for the same bunch and not for change then shut up.

The immigrant situation in this country is just symptomatic of a far, far greater problem. Read, educate yourself and VOTE.

TW344

tw
bingo..........