Academic Question / Recruiting

Without fail every coach was happy to see my son's GPA and SAT scores for a number of reasons:

1- They felt that with a history of strong academics it would be one less concern. Less likely not to stay eligible, and one less headache for coaching staff.

2- The NCAA's new graduation rate policy will potentially cause schools to lose scholarships based on graduation rates.

3- No need to use one of his exemptions for admission to school.

4- Flexibility with academic and athletic scholarship dollars

5- More than 1 coach said ...2 players similar ability one has a 2.4 GPA and 900 SAT score the other a 3.4 and 1250....who are you going to take.

In South Carolina a number of academic scholarships available based on GPA and SAT score

There are many players out there that can play baseball. The ones that take care of their grades can have an advantage over those that don't. First, you can greatly expand the list of colleges that might be interested in you. Colleges can offer more than just sport money if a boy has the right grades. Plus, they would rather not have to worry about if a boy can make the grades and stay eligible to play. I think it also tell a coach a lot about a boy's character when he take care of his school work.

Once my son's school saw him play, the next thing they wanted to see was all his academic records. The recruiting process did not really begin until they were satisfy that he was admissable and likely to be able to handle the course load.

Mom...Have experience sending a son to an SEC school; and, another to an Ivy League school.

Happy to chat with you...815-469-4520.

Academics matter with everyone. Gives a coach more "options" for scholarship blending programs; or, as in the case of Georgia and Louisiana now, a kid with a B average can get a nice scholarship on his own.

The first question most coaches asked when they first met my son: "How are your grades?"

Needless to say, it spoke VOLUMES.

Grades are the key today-- you dont have them they will offer the scholarship to another who does

The lower your grades - the less options you will have. And vice versa.

If they are really low - you may have no options.

His grades will be one of the determining factors in how many schools can can recruit him as long as he can play. With talent not being an issue for a moment, If your a 2.5 student or a 3.5 student can make a huge difference in which schools can and can't recruit. The 2.5 will definetly close some doors while the 3.5 will open more.

Thanks guys for all feedback,this will be just the "ammo" I need to enlighten junior.Grades not bad just a little less than he should be doing.Know coaches look at closely.Maybe that light bulb will turn on soon

PS physically gifted 6'0 185 HS soph catcher

highlandmom....

Your email went through Julie and I can't send a return email to you.

My email address: havecash@aol.com

john petrulis 815-469-4520

I was in the same boat with my son....his idea of success in academics was a "C". As long as he passed he was satisfied.

After years of arguing with him I had an idea: I announced that driving and his pickup were a priviledge and that from now on the priviledge of driving would only be extended for grades of A or B. A "C" grade meant no driving.

So far after one semester down we have yet to see a "C". I have not changed his mind about the imporance of grades (he still would be satisfied with a C) but at least he is bringing home better grades and improving his class rank and GPA.

The 1st question coaches ask were what are your GPA and SAT scores, are you eligible and lastly can you play ball.
Why would a coach waste time energy and money on a ball player that is likely to fail with the pressure of a monster work load of baseball and academics.
Your choices are definitly limited and a lot of JUCOs have tough entrance requirements. I remenmer one top JUCO bragging that their ball players had an average SAT of 1200.Some coaches make the leap between grades, work ethic, disciplin and baseball smarts.

The concept that I have used with both my son and daughter is "FREEDOM". Do you want to make the choice of what school to attend and choose your course of study? Or, do you want to leave it chance?

Baseball will help, but academics opens up doors and many more opportunities. This concept has been a 12 year work in progress and did not make full sense until this year when he was talking to coaches and filling out applications.

Yesterday my son received his 2nd acceptence letter into an engineering program with the opportunity to play baseball.

Probably the best example I can give is the real life experience of my two sons.

My '05 son sounds much like yours. He was smart, just didn't care about his grades as long as he got by. He refused to retake the ACT & SAT because his score was okay by his standards. He has subsequently learned that his standards were way too low!(For the record, he had a 2.6 gpa and 1000 on SATs). He is currently a freshman at a JUCO. He wants to transfer to a 4 year school but cannot transfer yet because he would have to try to be admitted as an entering freshman, gpa & SAT scores, and they are not good enough. So he will have to complete the year, apply as a transfer after the end of the spring semester, and hope that there is still room for him at the school.

In contrast, his '07 brother has a 4.0 gpa, class rank of 1/600, and has multiple DI schools that are recruiting him. I think it is interesting that his older brother is his strongest advocate for maintaining his high gpa, and doing everything possible to keep it.

BTW, the older son did have a 3.8 gpa his first semester in college. Although he didn't think grades were that important in HS, he now knows that they are important. I'm proud of both of my sons.

Everyone telling you good stuff here.

Another very valid point: TREND!!!

If they see grads dropping from soph to jr year, they don't liek it. My oldest was wait listed at a school her friend got into, even though my girl had better grades. REASON: TREND - daughter had slippe as ajr.

Son was the opposite - 2.2 as a frosh, 3.8 as a junior - coaches remarked about that when they viewed his transcript.

SO even though it mught be late for a kid to have real impact on his GPA, it's never too late to show improvement

Great advise.....think the posts about choices is so important.....without a doubt.....the higher the GPA and SAT's....the more schools your son will have to pick from.....and we are speaking from personal experience.....

....also.....doesn't end at high school....son just finished his first semester of college...and when he spoke to his baseball coach over winter break...Coach brought up the subject of son's GPA.....so good study habits in high school....will help in college too....

Averner3.....good luck!

Great posts!

Jazzman,
Congratulations to your son!

Avener3,
Print this page and show to son!

averner3, I sent you a PM.

I'm new to this, folks, so please bear with me while I figure out the whole message board "thing". Learned yesterday that my sophomore RHP failed one of his classes and will be academically ineligible to try-out for baseball. He can bring up his grades and apply for a waiver through the athletic director but the varsity coach already forewarned everyone going out for the team that if they needed a waiver they shouldn't bother showing up.

Hubby and I have decided not to get involved - its our son's responsibility to bring up the grades, apply for the waiver, and deal with the possibility that he will be denied. Its also his responsibility, if he really wants to play college ball, to continue to train and try-out for Legion and/or Sr Babe Ruth teams so that the year isn't completely wasted.

My question is this: do any of you know of players who've lost a high school season and recovered to earn a D1 college slot?

KmomNH -
Welcome to the site! You have a tough situation and I admire you for the tough love approach which is so very hard to do. You know your son the best and what steps are needed for him to accept responsibility and pull up those all important academics. I'm hoping responses don't get into your decision but focus on your question:

quote:

do any of you know of players who've lost a high school season and recovered to earn a D1 college slot?

Yes. Players have lost seasons for many reasons, both academic and injury, and still had recruiting opportunities their senior year. It's what he does in between that will make the difference. When he talks with the coach about the waiver he should also ask if he can work out with the team regardless of the response. If the coach is willing it will give him an easier way to stay in shape (though being with the team and not playing games will be tough). If he isn't already, try to find a summer team that plays in the most competitive arena possible and gives him the most playtime. With dedication, he will be ready for that important junior season. I hope he has luck with the waiver request!

Grades matter most. My son was a great baseball player, but never worked at school, had a low GPA, although his SAT's weren't bad, and many of his options dwindled during his senior year. Every coach wanted to know his GPA and in the end he was not eligible to play Div 1 or 2. He is now at a non competitive college playing Div 3 and doing quite well. Although he likes his college and the baseball, he really regrets the years that he wasted in high school. Regarding the recruiting we found that HS ball didn't matter that much (we have a terrible HS program)good summer teams and good showcases did. Good luck!

To: KmomNH
Yes one of our American Legion players failed Jr.year and got scholarship to small juco.His parents feel if not for junior screw up could have played at higher level.Will probably try to transfer to 4 yr school.

the thing that i don't read much about here are the classes.i did not know untill it was to late, the course requirements needed to play d1 sports.it is my understanding that if you do not have all the required course's you can make them up with sat score.we would have needed about 2200 points.yes impossible.so my advice to parents of younger kids get on the ncaa website and see what is required.my son talked with quite a few d1 coaches untill sat scores were talked about.so if you are a d1 nonqualifier out of high school you can graduate from a jc (hopefully with enough transferable credits)then you can play d1 baseball for two more years ,unless you didn't play ball in the jc.a long and sometimes endless road that could be avoided with a little knowledge about how things work.the hardest thing is to watch a kid play someplace because thats what you can do. jc are full of good ball players most of them not acedemicaly eligable to play or stay at a four year school.
not everyone at a jc but alot.
does your son play for coach Neverat? a tough but fair guy.a lesson for your son now when he can fix things.i think this info is correct if its not someone here will straighten me out.good luck


at the end of the day grades matter big time.but not just grades the right classes also. and as i recall it gets tougher every year.

KmomNH:

A few years back, one of my son's friends was a little slow coming around to the role acedemics played in his athletic dreams. He lost a year of baseball in high school due to ineligibility resulting from poor grades.

It got his attention.

...worked hard, and came back with a vengeance to become our leadoff hitter and center fielder his Jr. and Sr. years. Got a great scholarship, albeit not a D1, but it possible could have been if he had wanted that. He certainly got their attention.

Your son can do it too.

...if he wants it bad enough.

My son wants it bad but until now did not put academics as high on his priority list as athletics. He didn't even put teachers and coaches on the same level. He knew he was struggling with this class, but wouldn't go for extra help because he didn't want to be late for winter track practice and upset his coach. He figured it would be better to have a disgruntled teacher than an angry coach. We kept telling him his coach would certainly understand being late for academics but he wouldn't do it. He was floored when he learned he'd failed. He thought he'd done enough to pass the class, but he just didn't get the job done. Now he knows the potential consequences.

I will give him credit for doing some things right. He is aware of the academic requirements in the NCAA clearinghouse and is taking the right mix of courses. He also bumped his classes up to honors level from extensions (our middle level) to demonstrate to colleges his willingness to challenge himself academically. Now he has to step up and do the work to get the grades he needs to bring up his GPA and qualify to play.

20dad - he does not play for Coach Neverett. When Nashua split into two schools, last year, Nev stayed with Nashua South. His team won the Class L title for 2005 and he had 3 more players sign D1 letters of intent in November. According to the local paper, he's had 31 players go on to play college ball in the past 11 years - 15 of them to D1's.

My son has the priveledge of playing for Coach Wil Henderson, who was BJ Neverett's assistant for many years. Coach Henderson is a tough task master and expects his players to succeed academically as well as on the field. He insists that his athletes be good students and won't accept them slacking off because he knows what's at stake for them down the road.

My son intends to work hard to get the grades he needs to plead his case for a possible waiver. If he gets one, he knows he has to keep the grades up because he'll be cut if they fall. If he does not get a waiver, he will not be allowed to work out with the team and will have to play with one or more summer teams to keep his skills up.

We'll see what happens. Thanks for the great feedback. Its nice to know its not the end of the (baseball) world (yet).

Just read a news release where Michael Vick is defending his younger brother...basically saying that everyone has been too harsh on Marcus. This thread came to mind. Don't know the dynamics of the Vick family but I suspect that they have made excuses for Marcus in the past....and often.....

Thought of......KmomNH's post. Think we do our sons a great disservice if we do not teach them to accept responsibility for their actions. Even if it comes to their sport which we probably all love and share with them......good post KmomNH........and good luck to your son....I'm sure he has learned a valuable lesson that will stay with him for a long, long time.

My son recently met with a coach from a winning and well known program. He asked my son what his GPA was. When my son responded the coach said" good. then I won't have to worry about you". Grades count.......

Originally posted by KmomNH:

quote:

I'm new to this, folks, so please bear with me while I figure out the whole message board "thing". Learned yesterday that my sophomore RHP failed one of his classes and will be academically ineligible to try-out for baseball. He can bring up his grades and apply for a waiver through the athletic director but the varsity coach already forewarned everyone going out for the team that if they needed a waiver they shouldn't bother showing up.

Hubby and I have decided not to get involved - its our son's responsibility to bring up the grades, apply for the waiver, and deal with the possibility that he will be denied. Its also his responsibility, if he really wants to play college ball, to continue to train and try-out for Legion and/or Sr Babe Ruth teams so that the year isn't completely wasted.

My question is this: do any of you know of players who've lost a high school season and recovered to earn a D1 college slot?

I noticed in some other posts that you have sent your son to BB camps. I see this as supporting him in getting him seen and learning aobut the schools program.

I understand your tough love approach, only your son can turn things around if he really wants to. This might be a good time to sit down with him and find out exactly what his goals are for after HS.

If he desires to play after HS at a D1 school, you need to explain to him that it might not be possible. College coaches are very much concerned if their players can handle school and a rigourous bb program, if they can't in HS then how can they in college?

Talent alone, these days, will not secure you a scholarship to college. A big part of it is personal responsibility, time management and commitment. With rising academic standards from the NCAA, coaches won't offer anything to the student who struggles in HS in class.
Not being able to play on the HS team due to grades, sends a red flag. I know of a really good player in this areas who was denied an offer after the coaches found out he cut class often.

See where he needs help, don't be afraid to also offer him help with his academics.
JMO.

hey averner. tell your son that i thought the same thing that my play on the field would be the only thing that matters. but soon did i realize i would have to make sure my grades were top notch once colleges like vanderbilt and stanford sent me some letters. the SATs are also vital.

I look at grades and baseball in an "open door-closed door" scenario.

Grades help keep all of the doors open. Poor grades only close doors everywhere.

This is a great thread and is headed for "GOLDEN THREADS" status -- keep the great advice coming and then we'll move it over to the other forum. It's this kind of info that makes this site so valuable to people!!

I can't thank-you all enough for all of the support and great advice.

Our son has been in a negative academic pattern for a few years - he starts every semester with A's and the teachers love him. Then, a couple of months in, when he knows he's doing well, he slacks off, always figuring he can do just enough to maintain a decent grade and get on to the next class. We've tried to get him to develop better study and time management skills, but our efforts have fallen on deaf ears because he's always managed to pull it out in the end.

This year he (and I mean HE, not hubby and I) made the decision to bump up to honors classes because he knew one of the things colleges take into consideration is if the student looked for the easy A or challenged themself. That was a great decision, but he quickly learned that more is expected in higher level classes and if you get behind its tougher to catch up. As the end of the semester approached, he just couldn't dig himself out of the hole he'd created. He also couldn't charm his way out of a failing grade or convince his instructor to give him extra credit assignments.

Our son knows that the varsity coach will not roster players who require waivers, so he has decided not to apply for one. He is going to sit out the HS season, study hard, train with his pitching coach, try out for legion and wait 'til next year. Its a hard lesson for him, but we hope it will be the catalyst to propel him into a successful future.

As for his long-term plans, he hopes to attend a competetive DI or DII and major in Sport Management, specifically in the type of Sport Mgmt program that blends business and life science course (anatomy & physiology, injury prevention, etc), and if possible wants to minor in coaching. Believe it or not some colleges have a coaching curriculum. He knows the odds of landing a good coaching position are long and that he won't initially make much money, but that's his dream. The 5 step program is: graduate HS (after pitching in the Class L finals), attend college, pitch in the college world series, graduate college, coach at the college level.

Our job is to support that endeavor, but first we've got to help him through this hiccup. He is one of the players that noone ever doubted would be varsity, this year, and it will be difficult for him to tell his teammates he won't be there. I now he feels he let them down and let his school down, but more than anything he let himself down.

The good news is that you all have helped everyone in this household realize that he can come back from this if HE chooses to put in the effort to do so. Again, thank-you all soooo much.

I feel like I just got the wind knocked out of me reading this thread. My son is one of those 2.5 students mentioned above, but not because of lack of trying. He has struggled his whole life with keeping up with the class. He has been checked out by doctors and cleared of having any type of learning disabilities, has worked with a number of tutors and learning centers and is taking basic classes and still can't seem to pull out a B average. If it wasn't for baseball he would have no interest in attending high school much less college. I thank God everyday for baseball! Fortunately he is an above average player who has received the attention from various D1 schools. He sent out leters to the schools that he would like to play for and has been seen by all through travel ball, showcases, and camps and has received a very good response. However, he has been avoiding requests to send out copies of transcrips for obvious reasons. I should mention that he is in his Junior year. When should we drop the grade bomb? Is it unrealistic to think that this type of kid, regardless of his abilities, will ever have a shot at playing D1 ball?

123beme,
I think there is a huge difference for coaches between the student that works very hard in the classroom and the student that doesn't. It will be up to the coach and and admissions as to who will be able to pass admissions and who will not. Remember, regardless of signing an NLI, you do have to pass admissions. I think coaches are becoming a lot more accountable for the students they are recruiting, it's not all about baseball.
Do not avoid requests for transcripts, this is an importnat part of the process, if you avoid it, so will they.
I urge you to strongly consider that the demands of college work loads and baseball athletic programs are grueling. As a parent you also have to decide with your player where he best fits in.

Edi:
Very important to all new parents, the clearinghouse is for a purpose. Depending upon courses taken and grades, son may not be eligible for D1.

KmomNH,

I have been where you are and fully understand your concern. I also like the approach you are taking.

My son was the same way in high school. He had a 'dream school' in mind and that school was very interested in him. His grades were marginal at best, but he thought that good enough. In the end his dream school passed on him for other players who would not be an academic risk. Schools are less likely to risk losing a scholarship because a player can't meet the academic requirements once they are in the program.

Good news...my son ended up at a very good JUCO program. His dream school kept up with his progress. Not his baseball progress...they kept up with his academic progress. In fact, during the recruiting periods they didn't even come to see him play. When they were allowed to contact him they asked about his grades. I don't think they even talked to him about baseball.

He has worked extremely hard in the classroom and is on track to graduate from the JUCO this coming May. His dream school invited him for an official visit and offered him a very nice scholarship. He will enroll there in the fall.

While we have been very happy with the JUCO program which has terrific coaches, if my son had done his job in the classroom in high school he would have had those two years to learn the program of the school he originally wanted to play for. His time there will be shorter but he is looking forward to it. He knows now that in order to stay there he will have to make the grades. He doesn't want to be responsible for the school losing scholarships because he didn't do his job.

Best of luck to your son. It sounds like he is heading in the right direction. Stay patient.

quote:

Originally posted by 123beme:
When should we drop the grade bomb? Is it unrealistic to think that this type of kid, regardless of his abilities, will ever have a shot at playing D1 ball?

Now is the time to drop the 'grade bomb' in my opinion. And yes, your son CAN end up in D1. Maybe not as soon as he likes, maybe not where he thought he would, but yes he does have a chance. See my post above. Every kid has to make his way. We as parents can help and support them, but bottom line is they have to do it.

Recruiters will eventually have the information about his grades. If he is eligible through he clearinghouse each recruiter will weigh their options on him. If he is not eligible out of high school...trust me...all is not lost.

My son struggles in the classroom too. No learning disablilities, it just doesn't come to him as easy as it does to others. He is a common sense type of person, but has to work hard in a classroom environment. We are very proud of his academic successes since he left high school. All the credit goes to him. It's hard work but he invites that challenge now where he didn't before.

Don't get down on the process. Hard work can pay off.

123beme....you've gotten some good advise....and it may be D1 for your son....in a couple of years....but....the info on the JuCo's is right on....they are sensitive to the non-tradtional student as well as students who don't have the solid, high GPA high school transcript. Most recognize they have a special student population...and work with them.....remedial classes, etc.....aim for the D1 in '08, but if not possible a JuCo may help him get there a couple of years later.....

Twoseamer - Thanks for your input. Its too soon to know if my son will end up going the JUCO route, but its certainly possible. Life's not all dark clouds though. His pitching coach sat with him yesterday and told him the one bright spot of this is that he's only a sophomore. He has time to recover and if he applies himself - as in REALLY works hard in the classroom, he will be able to demonstrate to coaches and admissions counselors that he turned himself around as far as his academic endeavers, time management and personal responsibility skills. This situation was an eye-opening event for him. Like 123beme, I think my son would throw in the proverbial towel and totally give up on school if the opportunity to play baseball was completely taken from him. He may not have this season, but he knows he can still earn the right to play in the future, and that's what he's working towards.

First step in the right direction - he bought himself a small day planner (English teacher's suggestion) to help him stay organized. He said he's going to ask each of his teachers to write his grade in in at the end of each week so that he always knows where he's at and so that he can demonstrate to his coaches that he's taken responsibility for his own academic success. Won't get him on the field this year, but will start setting a good pattern for next year. We'll see what happens.

Best of luck to your son, 123.

KmomNH,

It's great that he is finding this out now as opposed to later. You are right...he has time to get this under control Sounds like he is handling this year's situation with a lot of maturity. I wish him all the best!

To all posters "muchas gracias" for all good advice.My son too is a sophomore and hopefully we can steer him in the right direction.There is a very fine line between pushing(alienating) and advising(mentoring).Only time will tell where this kid ends up.Believe possibly the light bulb is slowly turning on...

"I keep my eyes clear and I hit 'em where they ain't." Wee Willie Keeler