Academic versus athletic scholarships.

As a freshamn any academic money, except (presidential scholarship, chancellors scholarship,etc etc) count toward the 40%. The same goes for financial aid. If you get a 40% offer, then qualify for financial aid or some academic money but not one of these top academic scholarships you will get no more then the 40%.

After freshaman year this is no longer the case. The 40% offer will be in addition to any financial aid/academic aid bring your $$$ to pay down. You will still be getting only 40% baseball.

Hope this helps.

Is 40% considered a standard amount or is this exceptional? I've heard that being offered "book money" or about 500 a month is a good deal?

I think that's a tough question for any of us to answer. Each has their own goals and some will accept different amounts based on different factors, one being the dream school. One coach tolf us last summer that he has had players take book money just to say they got a scholarship to his school. We were advised very early on not to sign early for less then 33% of total college cost. We used that as a minimum starting point.

There have been some polls taken as to what is a fair offer 30%,good offer 50% or exceptional offer60%+. They were asking based on these percentages. For some it's not all about money. Fit, location, opportunity and quality of education could be factors.

.
Would concur with Coach...

But don't get too stuck on the 33%, While it is a nice starting figure there is 11.7 scholarships at DI with some roster sizes being as big as 40+. If a couple top LHP's get 60....the mixes all change...

Do the math....let's say 3 Blue chip players share 2 and the other 38 share the remaining 9.7 that's 25% each, IF they are equally distributed. Gets worse of some others are offered more.

As the competition for roster spots at the more desireable DI's increase the competition for the last spots is only going to heat up.

I am currently watching some very good players players take far less, -in fact in some cases making Unilateral committments, essentially high end announced/recruited walk on's - in order to attempt to play at schools that they believe fit them better, even if they get nothing...

as coach said...

quote:

For some it's not all about money. Fit, location, opportunity and quality of education could be factors.

44

Forty percent is a very good offer that constitutes a real commitment on the part of the school toward the player. And that is for just about any player. It is true that there are full rides, but they are very, very rare. I also take with a grain of salt the amount I hear any player or his parents mention. It is human nature to bump it up a little bit.

What about college and universities that "guarantee" to every student that is admitted finiancial aid that will get them to their FAFSA contribution? I know that this money is a mix of scholarships, loans, grants, etc but what % if any of that money is counted towards the 11.7 NCAA scholarship maximum for those schools that are NCAA Division I? I know Duke, and many of the Ivy League schools have this kind of finiancial aid package and I am just curious how that works? Does anybody know?

Coach Merc - Not sure if you'd know but is that limited to baseball; academic money being part of the athletic offer? Reason being, my daughter has gotten an offer in another sport (obviously) and she's getting a full ride (tuition, room, board, books). But my understanding is that 50% of her offer is athletic and 50% is academic.

My impression was that a given program has $X bugeted each year for scholarships (depending on grads, transfers, etc). Then that $X was divied up among the signees and then any academic money went on top of that because a coach will make a % offer BEFORE he knows what academic $$$ they'll get.

And O44, you might want to remove the decimal point, it would be 25%.

TW344 - if that's the case, according to what Coach Merc said, that would be one heck of a scholarship, depending on your EFC.

It's a lot to read, but here is the link. Go directly to Chaper 15, it's around page 205. It explains all the in's and out's of the financial aid/academic aid and scolarship situation.
http://www.ncaa.org/library/membership/division_i_manua...005-06_d1_manual.pdf

Beezer,
just to touch on your question with your daughter, I'm not 100% sure how it works on the ladies side or which sport she's involved in.

That said, if this was "baseball" and say the offer was as you stated. Freshman year (non- Presidental Scholarship) 50% athletic + 50% academic would make her a 1.0 qualifier meaning she is getting one full scholarship. However, after freshaman year, and for the remaining 3 years she is only a .50 qualifier meaning she's getting 50% athletic, the academic money no longer counts and the coach has the other 50% to spend else where. They can be very creative with their percentages. You would have to see how many freshman, how many total players, and what the # of scholarships allowed is. Softball has 12 and most teams carry 15-18 players..Thus it would be very conceivable that most are on some combination to get a full ride. Baseball has 11.7 and somewhere between 33-50 players..

Coach Merc - Thanks for the link but if I'm reading it correctly (gotta love the NCAA lingo) then Academic $$$ does NOT count against athletic money:

15.5.3.2.1 Exception—Academic Honor Awards. Academic honor awards that are part of an
institution’s normal arrangements for academic scholarships, based solely on the recipient’s
high-school record and awarded independently of athletics interests and in amounts consistent
with the pattern of all such awards made by the institution, are exempt from an institution’s
equivalency computation, provided the recipient was ranked in the upper 10 percent of the high-school graduating class or achieved a core-course grade-point average of at least 3.500 (based on a maximum of 4.000) or a minimum ACT sum score of 105 or a minimum SAT score of 1200. (Adopted: 1/12/99 effective 8/1/99)

15.5.3.2.1.1 Additional Requirements. The following additional requirements shall be
met: (Adopted: 1/12/99 effective 8/1/99)
(a) The awards may include additional, nonacademic criteria (e.g., interviews, essays, need
analysis), provided the additional criteria are not based on athletics ability, participation
or interests, and the awards are consistent with the pattern of all such awards provided to
all students;
(b) No quota of awards shall be designated for student-athletes;
(c) Athletics participation shall not be required prior to or subsequent to collegiate enrollment;
(d) No athletics department staff member shall be involved in designating the recipients of
such awards;
(e) Any additional criteria shall not include athletics ability, participation or interests; and
(f) There must be on file in the office of the director of athletics certification by the financial aid director or the chair of the financial aid committee that such awards are part of the institution’s normal arrangements for academic scholarships, awarded independently of athletics ability, participation and interests and in amounts consistent with the pattern of all such awards made by the institution.

Caoch - She's a golfer (6 schollys)

Beezer,

quote:

are exempt from an institution’s
equivalency computation, provided the recipient was ranked in the upper 10 percent of the high-school graduating class or achieved a core-course grade-point average of at least 3.500 (based on a maximum of 4.000) or a minimum ACT sum score of 105 or a minimum SAT score of 1200.

This I belive is the minimum qualifications for most schools Presidential,Deans,Chancellor's etc. award. I belive most schools will require you to meet at least 2 of the 3 listed above.

Many schools do their own thing when it comes to melding

No different than with Canadian players---some schools can do nothing while others can make $$ happen for them

There is no general rule !

Coach - You're probably right and my daughter was awarded those types of schollys at the DIII's she looked at. My only point in posting that excerpt was that it doesn't specify the type of scholarship (Presidential, Dean, etc), merely that an athlete in the top % of their class CAN get academic money in addition to athletic.

I'm not saying I'm right / you're wrong. I think the NCAA regs are mind boggling and that's why they have compliance officers to sort through the mess. And some would suggest if you owe $20k to attend State U "Who cares?" if it's all athletic, all academic or athletic + academic, you still owe $20k.

I guess my point is that if your son/daughter IS in the upper % of their class and qualifies for those academic schollys, then maybe you can target a more expensive school, assuming you can get academic money on top of the athletic scholarship.

Is Wake really $40,000???

Just kidding...

Beezer,
Right on. I think that's why most of us here have stressed over and over that Academics can open more doors for you then a batting avg can.

Good luck to your daughter on the links and in school.

Now if I can get the point across to my younger guy. It will be another accomplishment.

Baseballdad,
aren't they all $40K now? I'm sure they will all be shortly.

Thanks Coach! She's nervous as you-know-what!

BBallDad - Hopefully Coach R keeps recruiting up here because my son would love to go there. I've just got to figure out where to get one of those money trees though so I can afford it!!!!

.

IMO and in our experience...

TR is right on the money (so to speak)...

quote:

Many schools do their own thing when it comes to melding

In both Financial aid and in Title 9...

The rule is in the interpretation and the interpretation is in the rule...

It all depends upon how how much risk a school is willing to take. Some are risk takers...others live by a very strict interpretation of the rules...

would love to believe there is consistency but I have see enough and have gotten cynical enough to believe that it is a jungle out there boys and girls.....

44

$40,000 a year...think about it...$40,000 a year...I don't think my father ever made that in a single year and we had five kids in the family. But this is our world and I've got two more to send to college. I'll be seeing less movies and reading more books for the next dozen or so years. But it's all good...

I've got 3 more to go....$40k/yr scares the doo-doo out of me!

.

Here is the result....$40K per year...small scholaship %'s...state schools start to look really good...the competition increases...

44

I'll have 2 in college next year. Could possibly qualify for financial aid for the first time and it won't make a difference. Add to that the younger one will be a soph at a private school and hence more $$$$$.

Hey TR, did you know that Canada is in state for Maine? That little state just got quite large.

Wow Canadians complain at $5000 yr tuition and another 5-6 for room and baord etc.
My son could have gone to UBC for $12,000/yr less $3-5000 bursary. No he had to play NCAA D1 in the south.

so to speak---thanx for the compliment!!!! Sideways as it may be

Coach - all of ours are at Private schools too. I asked one of the colleges my daughter was considering if they take that into consideration and there response was "That was your choice". In other words, too bad.

With the discussion on this thread of Blended Scholly's, some of the points brought up are different than what I thought I understood.

I was under the impression that academic monies were seperate if the academic monies were not given because the kid is an athelete. In other words, the academic monies are available to ALL students or incoming freshman if they qualify.

Coach Merc's post seems to say that the academic monies are counted toward the 11.7 baseball scholly's for the atheletes freshman year, then for the following years not counted toward the 11.7.

For instance, State U costs $15,000 per year; tuition, room and board, books, fees --- total. Baseball coach offers player 33% athletic scholly .... which means $5,000. Player, because of academic performance in High School, GPA & high test scores etc., is able to qualify and acquire a $10,000 academic scholly. Does this mean that the total scholly package 15,000 counts toward the 11.7 (0ne whole scholarship) that the baseball coach has or is it only the $5,000 of athletic money ???

If the player went to State U and did not play baseball he would still get the $10,000 academic scholly. But if he plays baseball the academic scholly now gets gets counted into the 11.7, but only for the freshman year ????

Am I misunderstanding what Coach Merc is saying??? So you don't have to go back to the previous page here is Coach Merc's post that I'm refering to.

"As a freshamn any academic money, except (presidential scholarship, chancellors scholarship,etc etc) count toward the 40%. The same goes for financial aid. If you get a 40% offer, then qualify for financial aid or some academic money but not one of these top academic scholarships you will get no more then the 40%.

After freshaman year this is no longer the case. The 40% offer will be in addition to any financial aid/academic aid bring your $$$ to pay down. You will still be getting only 40% baseball."

The academic money as was copied from the NCAA site has to be given because the student met these criteria. Top 10% of the class, 1200+ Sat , 3.5GPA. If Academic money is given for less then these qualifications it counts aginst the 11.7 FOR THE FIRST YEAR ONLY same as need based financial aid.
Each school has their own criteria for theses as was told by TR they make it work. Go to the link and read it, it's long and wordy.

TR what I meant to say was UMaine considers Canada in state. I found that interesting. UMass also has a different tuition schedule for those living in MA vs New England vs the rest of us.

I understand it that if they offer a % of total costs that includes academic and ball scholarship. The more academic money the less the coach ahs to dip into the 11.7 leaving more to give other recruits.
Baseball + academic =33%
33%-academic comes out of 11.7

The bottom line apparently - there is no clear cut answer. The more I've read from the NCAA the more I think many of the "infractions" are because the rules are WAY too complicated.

I'm concerned that those with little background in this matter may read this thread and form the opinion that Division I programs frequently offer academic money on top of athletic grants in aid when, in fact, they usually do not (The exception here is for "Hope-type" scholarships that are usually funded by lottery revenues and are available broadly to entering students.).

The NCAA rule (copied here earlier) establishes two, principal requirements: (1) that the student-athlete meet one of the 4 academic criteria articulated in the rule AND (2) that whatever academic scholarship is added to the player's athletic grant be equally available to the non-athlete (Which is why "Hope-type" scholarships normally pass muster.). The "catch" is that funds granted for purely academic reasons to the general student body tend to carry a very high standard; and, the irony is that the higher the academic standing of the university, the more limiting the second requirement becomes.

For example, if Elite University's average SAT score is 1350, the "non-athlete" students who are being given scholarships purely on their academic merit may average SAT scores of 1450. As a result, a baseball player at that university who might meet one of the standards in requirement 1 above may fall short of the standard established there for academic scholarships by "regular" students.

quote:

Academics can open more doors for you then a batting avg can.

Coach Merc, what you say sounds good but you can't paint athletics vs academics with such a broad brush. It all depends on the student/athlete, how talented they are and how academically inclined they are. That statement may apply to more students than not, but it does not apply to ALL student athletes.
Fungo

Hacker-
Believe it or not, you understood correctly; It's an either/or proposition.

Using your example, the player should take the $10K academic and let the coach use the $5K for somebody who doesn't qualify for academic monies.

I did not realize that the blending rule only applied to first year, though.

quote:

Originally posted by PioneerDad:
Hacker-
Believe it or not, you understood correctly; It's an either/or proposition.

Using your example, the player should take the $10K academic and let the coach use the $5K for somebody who doesn't qualify for academic monies.

Well that really stinks!

Prepster:

You seem to really know what you are talking about. I asked a question earlier that has not really been answered directly although your post comes closest to the answer I seek. What about schools like Duke, some Ive League schools, etc. who tell the prospective student "we will meet your finiancial needs to attend our institution through scholarships, loans, grants, etc. up to what FAFSA says you should pay if you are admitted." Even though that student may play baseball and meet the minimum NCAA requirements [above a 3.5 above 1200 SAT, etc.] they may not be the mean or average student at that school. What happens with that money? Is it counted against the school?

This has been discussed in the past and a search might shed some light, but it's actually pretty simple in regards to academic blending.
If you meet ONE of the 4 criteria mentioned, the program does not have to count your academic money against its athletic schoalarship equivalency.
Top 10% of class
3.5 Core GPA
1200 SAT (excluding essay)
105 ACT (excluding essay)

The reason this rule exists is to prevent a school from creating the "Abner Doubleday" scholie....where a student who happened to throw a ball hard could qualify for academic money at 2.5 GPA.

quote:

whatever academic scholarship is added to the player's athletic grant be equally available to the non-athlete

This is really not a big issue. At most schools,academic money is "slotted" for the student body as a whole. For example a state school may award 3.2 GPA = $3000/yr, 3.4= $5000, 3.8= $7000 etc.
Obviously this is totally dependent on the school in question. Again, the NCAA rule applies here for blending purposes.

Careful, TW344...apppearances can be deceiving!

At the Ivies, the answer is easy: Since no athletic scholarships are granted, athletes find academic grants-in-aid as available as they are to non-athletes. (Some would argue that they're MORE available; but, that's for those closer to the situation to debate.)

Meanwhile, by citing Duke, you've put your finger on one of the unfortunate outcomes of the NCAA regulation on "blending" at the nation's best colleges. Because of the exceptionally high academic level of the student body, generally, a baseball player there who meets the regulation's standard for academic performance in high school may very well fall short of the institution's standard for the awarding of an academic grants-in-aid. If that's the case, they can't be given an academic scholarship without its counting against the 11.7 limit on baseball scholarships.

When the schools espouse their "no deserving student shall be turned away" position, don't forget that they're not just referring to scholarship assistance. In fact, they count upon deserving students borrowing a substantial portion of their need. That's where they're likely going to want to focus their attention if your son's going to receive a portion of his need via the baseball scholarship budget.