How much should acedemics weigh in picking a school to play at?
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It would depend on the player's aspirations. In my kid's case I've told them to use baseball/softball to get into the best school you like. Use the sport. Don't let it use you. In our house there aren't any delusions of making a living playing sports. The decision was for one, and will be for the other 80% academics and 20% sports.
RJM thats how I feel I feel that most high school juniors and seniors don't consider this.
quote:It would depend on the player's aspirations.
Agreed. The 80/20 rule is perfect in your situation as these are personal decisions.
In our case, my son is 100% baseball. He is lucky that I love the game as much as he does.
100% based on the baseball program. I wonder if someone could post a list of the college baseball programs that kids choose that do not also offer the opportunity to get a college degree?
It depends how much value is placed in the decision making process on getting a degree from Timbuktu State or a more prestigious university. In your son's case he got the best of both worlds. If my son's choice is between a D3 program like Hopkins or D1 at Timbuktu he'll be at Hopkins.quote:Originally posted by Coach May:
100% based on the baseball program. I wonder if someone could post a list of the college baseball programs that kids choose that do not also offer the opportunity to get a college degree?
In FB son's case, Baseball opened doors that would not have been available on grades alone. Since he had very good grades (but not elite) many very good academic schools were now on the radar and gave him a very good cross section to consider and compare. He got to see the difference between State U, Top 25, Ivy and Strong Academic/strong sports, strong academic/weak sports etc.
At the end, it still came down to a strong Baseball program with good coaching and possibilities down the road. That it ended up being a very strong academic school is going to be a bonus he will appreciate when his playing days are done...
At the end, it still came down to a strong Baseball program with good coaching and possibilities down the road. That it ended up being a very strong academic school is going to be a bonus he will appreciate when his playing days are done...
JMO, but any high school athlete that is not drafted in the top 10 rounds is crazy not to select academics over athletics. Go to the Ivy League school where you will not play in front of 5000 fans but you will be treated very well and get a great education.
cbg I'm not sure that is good advice.
Can someone name an NCAA college that doesn't have good academics ? Colleges that you can graduate from and not get a good job ? Colleges that stifle an intelligent grad from reaching his potential ?
Is every kid cut out to attend an Ivy type college ? Do only Ivy grads get great jobs ?
U wonder why all those colleges pay millions of dollars to crank out worthless degrees ? Do you think someone might have exposed them for what they are or are not ?
Can someone name an NCAA college that doesn't have good academics ? Colleges that you can graduate from and not get a good job ? Colleges that stifle an intelligent grad from reaching his potential ?
Is every kid cut out to attend an Ivy type college ? Do only Ivy grads get great jobs ?
U wonder why all those colleges pay millions of dollars to crank out worthless degrees ? Do you think someone might have exposed them for what they are or are not ?
Rarely would I find myself disagreeing with Coach May but I do in this case. Not all degrees are created equal. Even with a solid academic and great baseball conference like the ACC, you will find quite a difference between the top academic schools and the bottom. You want to attempt to get the best possible academic and baseball program that you can.
Someone who played in the minor leagues and went to Omaha with Michigan told me once that you want to go to a school that passes the "resume test". How would a potential employer view your resume with that school's name attached to it.
If you evaluate D1 schools from the perspective of the top academic/ baseball schools, I think you'll find the list of qualifying schools is quite small.
Someone who played in the minor leagues and went to Omaha with Michigan told me once that you want to go to a school that passes the "resume test". How would a potential employer view your resume with that school's name attached to it.
If you evaluate D1 schools from the perspective of the top academic/ baseball schools, I think you'll find the list of qualifying schools is quite small.
quote:Someone who played in the minor leagues and went to Omaha with Michigan told me once that you want to go to a school that passes the "resume test". How would a potential employer view your resume with that school's name attached to it.
Who administers this test ?
I went to an NAIA college; every class i ever took there was taught by a PHD.. there was no such thing as a GTA. the average class size was probably 15-20 students. The reason I was in college was to get an education, the reason I went to that particular college was to play baseball while going to college.
There were classes that I got a tremendous amount from and classes that i probably gained little, but most of that was due to me and my efforts; not the school. You get out of it what you put into it.
I am sure there are some professions where the right name on your degree can make a difference but for me the small school worked out great so I could play ball and get a degree.
There were classes that I got a tremendous amount from and classes that i probably gained little, but most of that was due to me and my efforts; not the school. You get out of it what you put into it.
I am sure there are some professions where the right name on your degree can make a difference but for me the small school worked out great so I could play ball and get a degree.
Skipper that is true in most cases. I had classes that had 30-40 and others that had 200+ . All the pofs were PHDs and some were useless. My commerce courses were former and current board of directors on major companies. My commerce classes were great compared to the general education courses.
My so loved his commerce classes. He actually started reading books about business without being told to do so. He also started asking me business questions and I could tell he had a genuine interest in the subject.
My so loved his commerce classes. He actually started reading books about business without being told to do so. He also started asking me business questions and I could tell he had a genuine interest in the subject.
Why is going to an Ivy League school not good advice? Do you not go to college to better your station in life? Do some successful people have a BS/BA from small private schools and large public institutions, yes they do. Just because you have an Ivy League education is no guarantee for success but it will allow you to walk to the front of the line and give you every advantage possible. Do what your heart tells you to do but the numbers say that in the long run people have more opportunities if they attend the Ivy League school over a large state university. I am one of those that has a BS from the large state university and have coached at the large state universtiy.quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
cbg I'm not sure that is good advice.
Can someone name an NCAA college that doesn't have good academics ? Colleges that you can graduate from and not get a good job ? Colleges that stifle an intelligent grad from reaching his potential ?
Is every kid cut out to attend an Ivy type college ? Do only Ivy grads get great jobs ?
U wonder why all those colleges pay millions of dollars to crank out worthless degrees ? Do you think someone might have exposed them for what they are or are not ?
Where is the line drawn at being academic prestigious? Ivy's, Service Academy's, Private schools from the east, west, north, south, midwest? Or is it schools that graduate 100,90,80,60,40%?
Prestigious academics sounds alot like projectability... It depends on what you do with your gift!
Prestigious academics sounds alot like projectability... It depends on what you do with your gift!
If your son is offered by a school he really wants to attend and play baseball at , the school is a great fit for him as far as baseball is concerned. He is a baseball player and has worked his butt off to earn an opportunity to continue to play the game. And now you come in and say "Your not going to that school. Your going to _____ because that is the best fit for you academically. And then it turns into a fiasco for him on the field. You will have to live with that and so will he.
You can get a great education in college its up to you. Or you can not and that is up to you as well. When parents start manipulating where there son is going to go watch out. Especially when your son is an athlete and has worked so hard to earn an opportunity and wants the best baseball situation he can find for himself. When you tell him he is not going to go the school of his choice and he ends up in a place that he is miserable remember this post.
If he goes to the school of his choice and ends up miserable then fine, help him out and do what you have to do. But thats a total different scenario than the one I am talking about. I had a player who chose to attend a Historically Black College which was D1. It was his only D1 offer. It was the best baseball program that offered him and it offered him an opportunity to play against some top tier programs during his career. He was an outstanding student and turned down some very good offers from highly ranked academic institutions. He had a great career , got his degree and is doing very well.
I guess his parents could have told him no. They could have scoffed at the idea that baseball was important enough to make the decision based on his dreams and love of the game. His desire to compete at the highest level he could compete against. And he could have looked in the mirror the rest of his life and said "What if?" And the parents would be doing the same thing right along with him.
The idea that your son has to attend this U or that U to get a great college education I dont buy. I dont believe for one minute that going to this U or that U defines you or your kid. Its what you do where you are that is important not where you are at. The player is the one that has earned whatever opportunities they are offered. It should ultimately be their decision to make. And this is just my opinion and thats all it is. Everyone has a right to their own.
But baseball players that are willing to make the sacrifices that this game will demand of them take their baseball very seriously. Its not as simple as saying academics are first and baseball is second when choosing a school. Finding the right fit is used here alot. Finding the right fit could mean something entirely different to another person. When a player feels he has found the right fit and then someone else says "No this is the right fit" , dont be surprised when things dont fit for anyone when its all said and done.
Academics are very important to me just like all of you. But if my son had said "I want to go to Timbuktoo U because thats where I feel comfortable and thats where I want to go" I would have had my say and when it was all said and done he would have went where his heart led him. And I would have supported the heck out of him the entire way. Again this is just my opinion. It doesnt mean I am right. It only means that I know baseball is much more important to some than some want to admit on this site.
You can get a great education in college its up to you. Or you can not and that is up to you as well. When parents start manipulating where there son is going to go watch out. Especially when your son is an athlete and has worked so hard to earn an opportunity and wants the best baseball situation he can find for himself. When you tell him he is not going to go the school of his choice and he ends up in a place that he is miserable remember this post.
If he goes to the school of his choice and ends up miserable then fine, help him out and do what you have to do. But thats a total different scenario than the one I am talking about. I had a player who chose to attend a Historically Black College which was D1. It was his only D1 offer. It was the best baseball program that offered him and it offered him an opportunity to play against some top tier programs during his career. He was an outstanding student and turned down some very good offers from highly ranked academic institutions. He had a great career , got his degree and is doing very well.
I guess his parents could have told him no. They could have scoffed at the idea that baseball was important enough to make the decision based on his dreams and love of the game. His desire to compete at the highest level he could compete against. And he could have looked in the mirror the rest of his life and said "What if?" And the parents would be doing the same thing right along with him.
The idea that your son has to attend this U or that U to get a great college education I dont buy. I dont believe for one minute that going to this U or that U defines you or your kid. Its what you do where you are that is important not where you are at. The player is the one that has earned whatever opportunities they are offered. It should ultimately be their decision to make. And this is just my opinion and thats all it is. Everyone has a right to their own.
But baseball players that are willing to make the sacrifices that this game will demand of them take their baseball very seriously. Its not as simple as saying academics are first and baseball is second when choosing a school. Finding the right fit is used here alot. Finding the right fit could mean something entirely different to another person. When a player feels he has found the right fit and then someone else says "No this is the right fit" , dont be surprised when things dont fit for anyone when its all said and done.
Academics are very important to me just like all of you. But if my son had said "I want to go to Timbuktoo U because thats where I feel comfortable and thats where I want to go" I would have had my say and when it was all said and done he would have went where his heart led him. And I would have supported the heck out of him the entire way. Again this is just my opinion. It doesnt mean I am right. It only means that I know baseball is much more important to some than some want to admit on this site.
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..and this is just my opinion, but...
...You've nailed another one Coach May.
It is not a simple decision to be made by the popular opinion of masses, it is comlex and completely personal to the player, for the success or failure at any school (or any larger success for that matter) in the end depends upon the dreams, passion and character of the player involved.
I am astounded when parents who have pushed baseball as a full time job since a player was 6 sudenly tell him that they really didn't mean it, it was the scholarship $ and the prestige of the institution that really matters.
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..and this is just my opinion, but...
...You've nailed another one Coach May.
It is not a simple decision to be made by the popular opinion of masses, it is comlex and completely personal to the player, for the success or failure at any school (or any larger success for that matter) in the end depends upon the dreams, passion and character of the player involved.
I am astounded when parents who have pushed baseball as a full time job since a player was 6 sudenly tell him that they really didn't mean it, it was the scholarship $ and the prestige of the institution that really matters.
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If you ask a 100 people this question then you will get 100 different answers. What works for Johnny doesn't always work for Bobby. Frank may use baseball as a way to get an education and Billy may use education as a way to get to play baseball. Mark may want / thrive on a huge campus while Melvin wants the small campus atmosphere. There are thousands of possibilities of the "right fit" and if you get something out of it then you did the right thing.
Honestly there are only a few schools out there that make future employers take notice. Overall where you go to isn't that important. Think about it this way - you could go to Harvard and graduate top 10 and your future is set. But another person can go to a small school that is just as tough academically but no a lot of people have heard of it. The future employer probably doesn't know the quality of education that the applicant has. Getting a degree from an accredited school is an accomplishment but like others have said - no matter the school there are phenomenal teachers and there are idiots. There are PHDs who can teach and those who can't teach. There are GTAs who can probably do a better job than the teacher and those who would mess up a hot cup of coffee.
Using that logic if you have the opportunity to play at the next level (no matter what the level) then you should take it. Being a college athlete at a small NAIA school will open a lot of doors being a graduate from State U won't. Being a college athlete makes the resume stand out because you are a competitor. If you can get a degree then you got a degree and unless it's one of those online places you have degree that will hold up over time.
Trojan Skipper's story about his going to college is pretty much my story. Small NAIA school so I could play ball and my first two years I could care less about classes and majors. I wanted to play ball and then I woke up. I got busy on my social studies degree and graduated and got my career going. I actually found out later that the school I went to was a very strong academic school and that helped me when I started applying for teaching jobs but it was baseball that got me there and the education got me through there.
Also, you got to factor in if the kid is ready for a bigger stage and sometimes they aren't. There was a guy I went to college with who grew up about half an hour from the college we went to. Now he was an awesome basketball player and led his team to the state tournament two years in a row, player of the year in KY (I think) and got a scholarship to the University of Kentucky (it was about two and half hours from where he grew up). His freshman year he got significant playing time and was doing great and to add to the story his grades were outstanding. It seemed like the perfect story - great athlete, great grades and wide open future.
His sophomore year he was at our small NAIA school that was half an hour from his home. He wasn't ready for the big spotlight and he was miserable. He loved school and basketball but the spotlight at playing in an SEC school was something he didn't want to be in. He came to our NAIA school and had a great basketball career, got a great education and is still there working for a bank as one of the big whigs. But the most important thing about that story is he was happy in that small school. I know that because he and I talked about it once. He said he knew people were criticizing him for giving up what he had at UK but he had to do what made him happy.
Not every intelligent kid is ready for Harvard. Finding that right fit isn't always very easy to do. Sometimes you have to go to a few places to find that place that works for you.
As for what Coach May said
He's right and trust me - there is nothing wrong with making baseball a huge priority because when it's all said and done you probably have a college degree. Nothing wrong with using baseball to get to college as long as you end up with a degree.
Honestly there are only a few schools out there that make future employers take notice. Overall where you go to isn't that important. Think about it this way - you could go to Harvard and graduate top 10 and your future is set. But another person can go to a small school that is just as tough academically but no a lot of people have heard of it. The future employer probably doesn't know the quality of education that the applicant has. Getting a degree from an accredited school is an accomplishment but like others have said - no matter the school there are phenomenal teachers and there are idiots. There are PHDs who can teach and those who can't teach. There are GTAs who can probably do a better job than the teacher and those who would mess up a hot cup of coffee.
Using that logic if you have the opportunity to play at the next level (no matter what the level) then you should take it. Being a college athlete at a small NAIA school will open a lot of doors being a graduate from State U won't. Being a college athlete makes the resume stand out because you are a competitor. If you can get a degree then you got a degree and unless it's one of those online places you have degree that will hold up over time.
Trojan Skipper's story about his going to college is pretty much my story. Small NAIA school so I could play ball and my first two years I could care less about classes and majors. I wanted to play ball and then I woke up. I got busy on my social studies degree and graduated and got my career going. I actually found out later that the school I went to was a very strong academic school and that helped me when I started applying for teaching jobs but it was baseball that got me there and the education got me through there.
Also, you got to factor in if the kid is ready for a bigger stage and sometimes they aren't. There was a guy I went to college with who grew up about half an hour from the college we went to. Now he was an awesome basketball player and led his team to the state tournament two years in a row, player of the year in KY (I think) and got a scholarship to the University of Kentucky (it was about two and half hours from where he grew up). His freshman year he got significant playing time and was doing great and to add to the story his grades were outstanding. It seemed like the perfect story - great athlete, great grades and wide open future.
His sophomore year he was at our small NAIA school that was half an hour from his home. He wasn't ready for the big spotlight and he was miserable. He loved school and basketball but the spotlight at playing in an SEC school was something he didn't want to be in. He came to our NAIA school and had a great basketball career, got a great education and is still there working for a bank as one of the big whigs. But the most important thing about that story is he was happy in that small school. I know that because he and I talked about it once. He said he knew people were criticizing him for giving up what he had at UK but he had to do what made him happy.
Not every intelligent kid is ready for Harvard. Finding that right fit isn't always very easy to do. Sometimes you have to go to a few places to find that place that works for you.
As for what Coach May said
quote:It only means that I know baseball is much more important to some than some want to admit on this site.
He's right and trust me - there is nothing wrong with making baseball a huge priority because when it's all said and done you probably have a college degree. Nothing wrong with using baseball to get to college as long as you end up with a degree.
quote:You can get a great education in college its up to you. Or you can not and that is up to you as well.
quote:The idea that your son has to attend this U or that U to get a great college education I dont buy.
I agree completely with Coach May. I have done just fine with my degrees from "party school" UGA. When I got my MS, my earning potential went up $15,000 per year. When I worked those glorious 9 months at Emory University, that really added heft to my resume and my ability to be hired. The way things have worked out in my career, the undergrad degree wasn't so important, as long as I had it.
2B got letters on Sept 1 from two schools - the third largest public university in the US, and the 3rd ranked academic public university in the US. (He is ranked 7th in his class). One university is huge and close, with a baseball program that is rebuilding; one is far away and much more prestigious, with a baseball team that was at Omaha last year. Both have majors that he is interested in. If they remain interested, it will be up to him to choose one of those, or another that we haven't yet heard from (or heard of). I want him to get a good education, play baseball, and be happy with his choices. I think baseball will open his mind to schools and programs that he might not otherwise consider. Baseball will be a huge part of his decision, because baseball is a huge part of who he is.
Wherever he ends up, just like anything else, he'll get out of his education what he puts into it.
Coach May - that was a fine post!
This topic comes up all the time here and it always generates lots of passionate discussion on both sides of the issue. One of the things I like about this topic is that everyone is right! These are deeply personal decisions that are only relavant in the context of each family situation imho.
Couple of assumptions here that seem worthwhile discussing...
1) Baseball is not that important...
Ok, then music, art, dance, movies and other forms of entertainment are not that important either. Your kid comes to you and says he dreams of being a great musician someday... Do you advise him to pick a school that he would be happy at if music were no longer involved OR do you advise him to go to the best music school possible? Perhaps Mn-Mom can comment on this as one of her sons has chosen a baseball path and another a music path.
2) The odds of succeeding in baseball are very low so it is better to hedge your bets with a solid education in another career.... Ok, but I can assure you that if you do not take baseball very seriously, your odds of success in baseball are zero. The second part of this assumption is that having a job in baseball (other than the big leagues) somehow makes you a second class citizen. What if a baseball career is truly someone's calling - does it matter if they make as much money as they could have otherwise?
3) Education is a one bite at the apple proposition.... In other words, if I don't get into the best now, I am precluded from doing so in the future. Nothing could be further from the truth imho. Baseball on the other hand is basically a one bite at the apple proposition however. In many cases, you cannot go back and correct a bad baseball decision.
This topic comes up all the time here and it always generates lots of passionate discussion on both sides of the issue. One of the things I like about this topic is that everyone is right! These are deeply personal decisions that are only relavant in the context of each family situation imho.
Couple of assumptions here that seem worthwhile discussing...
1) Baseball is not that important...
Ok, then music, art, dance, movies and other forms of entertainment are not that important either. Your kid comes to you and says he dreams of being a great musician someday... Do you advise him to pick a school that he would be happy at if music were no longer involved OR do you advise him to go to the best music school possible? Perhaps Mn-Mom can comment on this as one of her sons has chosen a baseball path and another a music path.
2) The odds of succeeding in baseball are very low so it is better to hedge your bets with a solid education in another career.... Ok, but I can assure you that if you do not take baseball very seriously, your odds of success in baseball are zero. The second part of this assumption is that having a job in baseball (other than the big leagues) somehow makes you a second class citizen. What if a baseball career is truly someone's calling - does it matter if they make as much money as they could have otherwise?
3) Education is a one bite at the apple proposition.... In other words, if I don't get into the best now, I am precluded from doing so in the future. Nothing could be further from the truth imho. Baseball on the other hand is basically a one bite at the apple proposition however. In many cases, you cannot go back and correct a bad baseball decision.
It's pretty funny at times on this board when people will read into a comment something that is not there, respond to it and end up having an argument with themselves.
My point was that I do not agree with the statement that it is a "100% based on the baseball program." Nor would I agree that it is 100% based on the academic program. Its about finding a good combination of both in my mind.
My point was that I do not agree with the statement that it is a "100% based on the baseball program." Nor would I agree that it is 100% based on the academic program. Its about finding a good combination of both in my mind.
No one mentioned "Area of study" or "Cost of attendance" as selection criteria for choosing a school.
I lean more toward Coach May's thinking in that if the college is accredited, there is no reason you cannot get a valuable education there.
What area of study you want to pursue has to come into the equation, to some degree. While Vanderbilt is a great school, both academically and in baseball, if my son wants a degree in Agricultural Economics, it would not be the right fit. He would need to look at a state Agricultural school (MS State, Auburn, Clemson, UTK, etc.) to prove that educational need. Now if he wanted a degree in Business Administration, Vandy would be an awesome choice.
I lean more toward Coach May's thinking in that if the college is accredited, there is no reason you cannot get a valuable education there.
What area of study you want to pursue has to come into the equation, to some degree. While Vanderbilt is a great school, both academically and in baseball, if my son wants a degree in Agricultural Economics, it would not be the right fit. He would need to look at a state Agricultural school (MS State, Auburn, Clemson, UTK, etc.) to prove that educational need. Now if he wanted a degree in Business Administration, Vandy would be an awesome choice.
A lot of the premise here seems to be that the 17-19 year old HS senior is making the decisions either autonomously or his parents are forcing it down his throat. I'd say it's a rare HS senior that is capable of the critical thinking needed to make an autonomous decision about their education and how it will effect them down the road.
The influences we parents exert on them are tremendous. I doubt that the baseball side of this argument exerts any less influence on their kids than the academic side. Saying that, "my son made the choice himself", is either admitting you played no role in parental involvement at all in his upbringing, or that you won't admit the influence and direction you've been pointing him in all along.
In baseball vs. academics, there is no right or wrong answer. This portion of the decision process is not about fit, it's about what is right for that individual at that point in time of his life. Once this question is answered, then fit enters into the equation as part of the narrowing down and elimination process.
The influences we parents exert on them are tremendous. I doubt that the baseball side of this argument exerts any less influence on their kids than the academic side. Saying that, "my son made the choice himself", is either admitting you played no role in parental involvement at all in his upbringing, or that you won't admit the influence and direction you've been pointing him in all along.
In baseball vs. academics, there is no right or wrong answer. This portion of the decision process is not about fit, it's about what is right for that individual at that point in time of his life. Once this question is answered, then fit enters into the equation as part of the narrowing down and elimination process.
Why would a parent push athletics over academics at any time? In our house academics have always come first. Chances are success in life is going to come from education, not athletics.quote:I am astounded when parents who have pushed baseball as a full time job since a player was 6 sudenly tell him that they really didn't mean it, it was the scholarship $ and the prestige of the institution that really matters.
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Sad as it is, we have watched scores of kids who were enabled and not expected to achieve in the classroom by parents(and teachers administrators and school districts) simply because they could hit, run, throw, or put a ball through a hoop. Happens in HS, happens in college and beyond.
...In the bigger picture, I would suggest that it is not an either or...it is one (aheltics)supporting the other (academics)...in both directions. Both have valuable lessons to teach.
44
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quote:Why would a parent push athletics over academics at any time?
Sad as it is, we have watched scores of kids who were enabled and not expected to achieve in the classroom by parents(and teachers administrators and school districts) simply because they could hit, run, throw, or put a ball through a hoop. Happens in HS, happens in college and beyond.
...In the bigger picture, I would suggest that it is not an either or...it is one (aheltics)supporting the other (academics)...in both directions. Both have valuable lessons to teach.
44.
Baseball can be an important part of a young man's life and I don't see anything wrong with balancing, not sacraficing, academics with baseball in the college years. One also has to be realistic about using baseball to push a player into an academic situation he isn't prepared for.
The window for baseball is very short while education can continue for a lifetime.
The window for baseball is very short while education can continue for a lifetime.
Just curious... how many of you had your parents make your college choice? I'm sure my situation was not the norm - parents recently divorced and dealing with their own issues, not really interested. I paid my way through night school at a junior college (which is now, amazingly, a D1) while working for a year or so, then asked my grandmother for help, plus student loans, to finish my undergrad degree at UGA.
I will help my son with information to make his choice, and will give him input when he asks, but the choice will be his.
I will help my son with information to make his choice, and will give him input when he asks, but the choice will be his.
quote:...In the bigger picture, I would suggest that it is not an either or...it is one (aheltics)supporting the other (academics)...in both directions. Both have valuable lessons to teach.
Well said 44. IMHO, Although it will never happen any 4 year athlete who graduates with an academic major should be rewarded with a Minor degree in Athletics. They put in the time, effort, and committment that deserves the award and it would be a plus on any resume.
My son made his choice However I had veto power over his decision.
I actually liked a D11 in Connecticut but he wanted D1 in the South. He had a fabulous time all 4 years. On a stretch BB may have been 10% in the decision. A decent education was mandatory and I felt almost any NCAA school would provide that. Location was # 1 factor.
5 guys I know who graduated from the school absolutely loved it. Everyone said they would stay there if they could.
I actually liked a D11 in Connecticut but he wanted D1 in the South. He had a fabulous time all 4 years. On a stretch BB may have been 10% in the decision. A decent education was mandatory and I felt almost any NCAA school would provide that. Location was # 1 factor.
5 guys I know who graduated from the school absolutely loved it. Everyone said they would stay there if they could.
College soph son is home for fall break. We've had some good talks about "life". He's very thankful looking back that he took so many AP and college classes in high school. Some of his friends have commented to him this week that they wish they had taken more AP classes in high school.
He feels that regardless of where you graduate from college that if you have good grades and good people skills you will be successful in the work place. He's young and naive in some ways but I think he nailed it for the most part.
In retrospect he absolutely knew where he didn't want to go to college, regardless of the prestige of the school. No matter how well respected a school is if it's not a good fit for the player he may not thrive.
Don't limit yourself with poor grades and poor effort in high school. Good academics and good baseball go hand in hand.
He feels that regardless of where you graduate from college that if you have good grades and good people skills you will be successful in the work place. He's young and naive in some ways but I think he nailed it for the most part.
In retrospect he absolutely knew where he didn't want to go to college, regardless of the prestige of the school. No matter how well respected a school is if it's not a good fit for the player he may not thrive.
Don't limit yourself with poor grades and poor effort in high school. Good academics and good baseball go hand in hand.
quote:Originally posted by observer44:
...In the bigger picture, I would suggest that it is not an either or...it is one (aheltics)supporting the other (academics)...in both directions. Both have valuable lessons to teach.
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CPLZ also makes good points, there is no right or wrong answer. This is an individual decision, each particular player makes his choice based upon what is best for him.
As I have stated over and over, it's really pretty simple, work hard on the field and in the classroom and you will have good academic choices and good baseball choices.
With regard to "success" in life based on the prestige of the college that is attended:
If a student applies himself, he can get a great education at almost any college in this country.
But the issue here isn't just the quality of the education. It's also the value of the diploma.
A diploma from a prestige school is more valuable, hands-down. The less prestigious diploma doesn't preclude "success". Cream rises. But the more-prestigious diploma makes it easier, and more likely.
For example: all other things being equal (including LSAT scores), when applying to law school, if your son has 3.8 GPA from a prestigious college, he has a considerable advantage than with the same GPA from a non-prestigious college.
Similarly, in baseball, D-3 studs are at a disadvantage vs. D-1 studs in the MLB draft. Common sense.
How to define a prestige school? Some of us can categorize the prestige of various schools, the same way that others can do the same with college baseball programs.
Notably, with academics, as opposed to baseball programs, it's the perceived value of the degree that counts (it may, or may not, correspond with academic rigor).
Harvard, for instance, is notorious for allowing kids to skate through academically. Loads of gut courses to choose from. But the Harvard diploma is worth gold, regardless.
(By contrast, there are far few gut courses available at smaller academically prestigious schools such as Amherst, Hopkins, etc.)
If a student applies himself, he can get a great education at almost any college in this country.
But the issue here isn't just the quality of the education. It's also the value of the diploma.
A diploma from a prestige school is more valuable, hands-down. The less prestigious diploma doesn't preclude "success". Cream rises. But the more-prestigious diploma makes it easier, and more likely.
For example: all other things being equal (including LSAT scores), when applying to law school, if your son has 3.8 GPA from a prestigious college, he has a considerable advantage than with the same GPA from a non-prestigious college.
Similarly, in baseball, D-3 studs are at a disadvantage vs. D-1 studs in the MLB draft. Common sense.
How to define a prestige school? Some of us can categorize the prestige of various schools, the same way that others can do the same with college baseball programs.
Notably, with academics, as opposed to baseball programs, it's the perceived value of the degree that counts (it may, or may not, correspond with academic rigor).
Harvard, for instance, is notorious for allowing kids to skate through academically. Loads of gut courses to choose from. But the Harvard diploma is worth gold, regardless.
(By contrast, there are far few gut courses available at smaller academically prestigious schools such as Amherst, Hopkins, etc.)
quote:For example: all other things being equal (including LSAT scores), when applying to law school, if your son has 3.8 GPA from a prestigious college, he has a considerable advantage than with the same GPA from a non-prestigious college.
Actually the Dean of Law at my college told me the most successful lawyers weren't the high IQ guys. Yes they had to be smart but they also look for well rounded individuals.
I knew a Harvard grad years ago that drove a taxi. A Harvard grad who was also a prof at Harvard was elected head of a political party here. He is the biggest screw up I have ever heard. His approach has dropped the party way down in the polls. Not smart enough to see how messed up his approach is.
I know human resource guys who generally stay away from prestige grads. Something about arrogant and aloof.
If a Harvard grad is driving a taxt he made that decision. He didn't have to be driving a cab.quote:I knew a Harvard grad years ago that drove a taxi.
Supreme Court Justice Stevens, Harvard Law grad was once asked if he was concerned about the number of Supreme Court Justices from elite law schools. He responded, "Some of them went to Yale."
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
Supreme Cout Justice Stevens, Harvard Law grad was once asked if he was concerned about the number of Supreme Court Justices from elite law schools. He responded, "Some of them went to Yale."
I think sense of humor is a very underrated quality in a Supreme Court Justice.
With regard to previous examples...exceptions don't make the rule, and this post exemplifies that the world is full of dissenting and also wrong opinions
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Bobblehead,
My statement referreed to success at getting into law school, not success at practicing law. Once you've got your foot in the door--hired by a law firm--cream rises, with "success" based on an attorney's drive, interpersonal skills, and hunger for dollars--rather than his soon-forgotten academic record.
My statement referreed to success at getting into law school, not success at practicing law. Once you've got your foot in the door--hired by a law firm--cream rises, with "success" based on an attorney's drive, interpersonal skills, and hunger for dollars--rather than his soon-forgotten academic record.
I know 3 relatively successful Lawyers who packed it in and became teachers.
My son's one roommate had his choice of any Law school he wanted. He chose U of South Carolina. Didn't need to be a Harvard grad or any prestige school.
I studied at Grays Inn London England. We had to sit term which was a large dinner and drink up 3 times a year. The supreme court Justices sat at the head table. They were funny old geezers many who had to be wheeled in and out of the dinner. They had a tradition of sitting in messes of 4 and they had to toast each other repeatedly thought the evening resulting in a drunken party.
You don't even need a college degree to get in and it cost a few hundred dollars a year to attend. Every Barrister in the British Common Wealth has to attend one of the 4 inns.
http://www.graysinn.info/
My son's one roommate had his choice of any Law school he wanted. He chose U of South Carolina. Didn't need to be a Harvard grad or any prestige school.
I studied at Grays Inn London England. We had to sit term which was a large dinner and drink up 3 times a year. The supreme court Justices sat at the head table. They were funny old geezers many who had to be wheeled in and out of the dinner. They had a tradition of sitting in messes of 4 and they had to toast each other repeatedly thought the evening resulting in a drunken party.
You don't even need a college degree to get in and it cost a few hundred dollars a year to attend. Every Barrister in the British Common Wealth has to attend one of the 4 inns.
http://www.graysinn.info/
I know a guy that can suck a string of spaghetti up his nose and pull it out of his mouth...and he's a doctor that graduated from University of Illinois.
So that must mean all Doctors in Illinois get plenty of carbohydrates.
So that must mean all Doctors in Illinois get plenty of carbohydrates.
Yup shows how irrelevant where you attend it is even to be a circus act in Illinois.
Freddy: and the ability to bill 25 hours for every 24 hour day.