acceptance letter brings dissappointment, any suggestions

This acceptance letter came from school admissions or did it come from the coaching staff? Not sure how the admissions office can determine whether a player will be redshirted or not. Some schools might be different but I always assumed that the player's NCAA eligibility is the factor in deciding whether the player can participate. Sounds like maybe this school adds another criteria on top of it. Sounds like this is something that should have been made clear up front...they've obviously known about the SAT scores for a while.

I know that you had to have a SAT but when my son was applying it was about 800 on the old format. I can see where they might impose academic probation but have never seen it before.

I guess that your son's situation is why grades and test scores are very important.

Don't know the school you are refering too, private, state, what division. Obviously your son was accepted on a provision, if baseball was not involved he might not have even gotten accepted. Maybe they have found that in the past, baseball or other athletes do not do well in general their first year so therefore to avoid losing eligibility they have this criteria.

YOu can attend a prep school
take the ACT, keep taking the SAT or attend a JUCO. If you really throw low 90's mlb scouts will be coming to see you in the spring

quote:

He is a RH pitcher, 6'5" and is throwing very high highs, has hit low 90's.

This profile should bring options,one would think.

The school is a private university, Division II.
When we called admissions we were transferred over to a counselor in the general studies program, which is where they told us about him being red-shirted if he were to make the team. Is this a common practice with most colleges?? He has applied to a Division I school, but we have not heard from them yet. I know that the SAT's are of great importance, but I was under the impression from his guidance counselor that his gpa, and school records might help even this out. His season starts in March, and I'm told by his coaches that scouts will be there looking at him. There was a few typo's in my last post, 6'5", 235 lbs, throw's high 80's and has thrown some low 90's.
Will schools overlook this SAT score if they are impressed by his pitching performance? This is new to me, any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
The Mom

He still has time to take a SAT over a few more time and raise the score

Have you talked to the baseball coach?

Your HS guidance counselor might make a call or two since he seems to have mislead you


Since it is a private school they may have their own requirements, which supercede the NCAA,

Did you apply to the school or through the coach ?
You should always go through the coach.

he applied directly to the school.. He met the coach at a prospective student athlete open house, and was asked to stay after. It's his size that draws much attention from the coaches. Once they see him pitch, I have a feeling they might get more involved in the process. Do the coaches actually have any "pull" with the admission process if they really want a player? Please understand that I realize there are many 6'5" pitchers out there, and I'm not trying to sell you on my son, but there is extreme talent there. The reason that he actually has not been signed or scouted extensivly yet is that he played varsity football this past season
( All County Winner) and did not play fall ball.
Might have been a mistake, but he had a great season, and has no real regrets.
Again, thank you all for your input.

Coaches do have some "pull". Exactly how much varies by school. Since the coaches haven't seen him pitch (if I understood your last post properly), you can't expect them to use that pull just yet. Obviously, first they have to know they want him.

Keep pursuing all options.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Did you apply to the school or through the coach ?
You should always go through the coach.

Why ?

You pay $25 bucks online registration. The only reason a coach would hand walk a student app to the decision-makers are for "exceptions".

quote:

Do the coaches actually have any "pull" with the admission process if they really want a player?

Are you kidding ? A teammate of my son applied to UBC. He had a 92% and was turned down. The coach would have got him in.
I am surprised the coach didn't tell you to deal through him even if he had great scores. They hepl get max scholaship as well.
A D11 in CT was after my son and we sent him the application and told us not to talk to anyone but him. It was our largest package. The school my son is at said the same thing.
Most people that want to play BB in college get interest from the coach in the way of an offer which is subject to getting admitted. You did it backwards.

dannyp - I think you're asking some really great questions that a lot of us could learn from.

Both of my parents taught at universities. My mother taught at a small D3 where she often assisted athletes and worked with coaches to get things on track. If a college wants to impose restrictions on a student (such as cannot play sports for one year), they have every right to do so outside of any NCAA requirements. The NCAA sets requirements that are a minimum...a college will often impose higher standards.

A coach usually does have "pull" with admissions...to some extent. But (unless they're Steve Spurrier I guess...sorry, another story) the coach usually cannot override a college's decisions with regards to academic policies. Kind of like they can't get passing grades for their players. Similar thing. Make sense?

I would not hesitate to engage the coach in this situation. But I think you'll get a much clearer picture from the admissions office itself since they made the decision.

On another note, and this is a dangerous thing for me to try and do over the internet...but your son's mismatch in grades and test scores ?could? indicate some type of learning difference that makes it hard for him to perform to his capability in an SAT type of situation. There are lots of those types of kids around (I have one) and there are ways to adjust for it and get help in improving it. Sorry if that was in any way offensive...didn't mean it to be.

Good luck!

Slugger all fees were waived by the coach. We had a student # and acceptance without a fee. The CT coach actually demanded we only talk to him.

If this school accepts ACT scores, you might have your son take the ACT. My son got mediocre scores on the SAT, but higher ones on the ACT. Higher ACT scores might get him admitted as a regular student rather than on a provisional basis.

As someone already mentioned, jr. college is another option.

You mention that he has not "been signed or scouted extensively" because he played football in the fall. Did he play baseball this past summer?

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Slugger all fees were waived by the coach. We had a student # and acceptance without a fee. The CT coach actually demanded we only talk to him.

I would rather pay the $25 bucks and not burden the coach. As far as academic monies, universities consider academic grants based on the application, which also doubles as that application also, along with the transcripts and standardized test scores.

It sounds like you said the coach can walk into admissions and say, "hey, give my baseball kid here some academic monies"?????????????

I don't understand the role of the coach with admissions except for using an exception to get a marginally academic baseball kid admitted. Then he gets to babysit him to make sure he retains eligibility.

When does the hand-holding stop?

As far as the disparity between GPA's and Standardized scores, much has been written about grading systems and the differences in high schools across the country. Also, teacher grading differences and the weight placed on the entire body of work versus simple exams contribute to the differences. A 94%, a solid A at one school is a B at another. The standardized test levels the playing field and is very indicative of ones past learning and future learning abilities, but there are always exceptions.

quote:

the coach usually cannot override a college's decisions

This is why you start with the coach before the decision is made. Let him sell your case to admissions.
My son had great marks and we still were told to not go direct. The school he is at actually gave him max acadenic money.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:

quote:

the coach usually cannot override a college's decisions

This is why you start with the coach before the decision is made. Let him sell your case to admissions.
My son had great marks and we still were told to not go direct. The school he is at actually gave him max acadenic money.

But he had to meet the criteria extended to ALL applicants, right?

Slugger that is not what I said. We never talked to admissions until the coach dealt with our app. My son was a Ontario scholar and had a 3.8 gpa. He also had a great SAT. 800 in mathe alone. That is in the top 5%.

It sounds like he was borderline so the coach might have got the restriction waived in regards to BB.
I can tell you that every coach we got serious with said to apply through them.

The bottom line is usually very simple: the coach will let you know if he wants to have you send it thru him. In those cases he will get you the packet and you will see that it is marked in some way to indicate that it coming thru baseball.

Many schools, particularly Division III programs , do not like the coaches talking to admissions regardiong players.

It all depends on the school and also how much the coach wants you to be there

What my son's teammate didn't understand and many don't is that criteria is the base requirement. If you have room for say 100 students in a course and you are the 101 student applying for that course you may not get in. I warned the teammate about that and he was in shock that he got denied admission. He applied to a course that had hundresds of top students applying to get in. The posted requirement might be 90% but the guys applying drove it up to 95%.

bobblehead - Yes, it probably would have been better if the coach were involved from the start.

But there is a difference (usually, not always) between a coach giving an 'assist' in getting admitted and what guidelines/restrictions/etc... that admissions or the college will place on the student post-admit. Smaller colleges are often even more careful with how a student will perform once there (they really don't want anyone to fail) and will commonly place their own policies on a student in order to maximize the student's chances of succeeding. That is their main concern.

In some ways its kind of like applying to a big state school's engineering program and being admitted, but in some other discipline than engineering. There are roads back to the desired major, but it takes proving that you can do the work there first.

I see this (with limited knowledge about the student and the school) as a case similar to that. The school seems to obviously know that the kid might play baseball but feels that his best chance of success is to focus on school for 1 year. Certainly not the worst thing in the world, but yes, no doubt disappointing.

CPLZ - I agree with everything you said except the notion that standardized tests uniformly level the playing field. Perhaps you've been lucky to not have a child with a learning difference. Before I had one I thought it was a bunch of c-r-a-p myself. But having seen it firsthand, it absolutely can effect a number of things including possibly the ability to successfully take timed and/or standardized tests. Its frustrating for parents and even moreso for the student who otherwise is stellar. And it is, in the end, no reflection on intelligence nor a very good predictor about the ability to ultimately be very successful in school and beyond.

quote:

Originally posted by dannyp:
My son was just accepted to a University here in New York. He has already spoke to the head coach there and will be attending his camp starting next week. Here's the problem, he did not score well on his SAT's (took them twice), but has an 84.5 gpa, is on honor roll, has many letters of recommendation. Since his SAT's were low, they accepted him into the general studies program which states that is not eligible to play ball the first year, that he can be red-shirted. We have called his admissions counselor and the coach and are requesting that he be re-evaluated. Does anyone thing there is any hope?? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. He has applied to other schools here in New York, and we're still waiting to hear from them. He is a RH pitcher, 6'5" and is throwing very high highs, has hit low 90's.
Thanks for any suggestions.

Keep in mind that a student has to be NCAA eligible to play, many times students will attend college as freshmen (be redshirted) and hope they can attain the 24 credits and 1.80 gpa needed to be eligible the following year.

Many colleges have their own rules as to bottom GPA---in most schools a 1.80 won't cut it---many want a 2.0 or higher to remain eligible according to school requirements not NCAA

American kids are geared to SAT and ACT. They are trained to take them. Here we never get any help to know what to face. The HS school in Georgia that wanted my son to take his senior year there told us they gave classes in taking the SAT tests as part of the benefit of going there. We had non of that in school because of the small % of students that would need it.
The info on the tests was geared to grade 11 studiesand a student who is in 12 may not do as well as a 11 would.
Thisguy seemed to do well in school and attained honors so it is possible the coach might have been able to get the restriction lifted or had it not put in place to start with.
My son is at a small private school and they have been great to deal with. The coach handled everything.
I always thought 2.0 was the minimum.

American kids are not trained to take the SAT/ACT. American kids, as well as any kid from the globe can ascertain the same materials online which include sample tests, CD's, and other preparation materials.

Students from abroad attend most, if not all universities.
http://www.actstudent.org/regist/outside.html

http://www.actstudent.org/testprep/index.html

in response to many of your thoughts on this subject, I will tell you that yes, there is extreme tension at test time for my son. He did take SAT courses offered at school, and I did pay for a private tutor $$$.. put in sufficient study time, and still did not score well. He also took Act's and scored poorly on those too. It seems that timed, lengthly tests do not come easy for him.
But again, his HS gps is a 84.5 and like I mentioned he was put on honor roll for the first quarter. Second quarter grades will be coming in the next week, and by looking over his grades, it looks like he will make honor roll again. Baffles me! He did play summer travel ball, as he has for the past 8 years. He went to the Blue Grey Classic in Trenton, NJ and was approached my the Binghamton Coach that was there. Received great ratings, and clearly proved his abilities on the field. He has gotten numerous letters from schools that were there, but most are out of state. He wants to stay local for college. Hoping when the Varsity Season begins, things might turn around for him. It would be wonderful if athletic money was offered, but fortunatly we do not have to count on it. He is registered and cleared with the NCAA, and has been told by his coaches that they see no problem with him receiving All County again, for baseball. So the wait begins, the stress is mounting, and I can't wait until this whole process is over!!
Thanks again for your thoughts, I will take them with me to every admissions counselor I will have the pleasure to speaking with in the next few months. And a lesson to be learned, as much as most of you already know, those SAT'S really do matter!!

danny, a few observations

1) your son is not being recruited by baseball correct?

2) no athletic aid is being offered?

3) from the info above your student (oddly) seems to have been deemed a "non-qualifier" by that university - some info must be missing

4) a non-qualifier can recieve NO athletic aid
many conferences don't even let non-qualifiers red-shirt

examples of some non-qualifier policies, by conference

jmo, but I'm not seeing anything the situation you describe as being anything like a "good fit".
they're offering a yr of academic probation in return for the same full tuition & fees everyone else would pay - can't see any positives avademicly or athleticly
it would seem especilly frustrating for a hs honor roll student to attend a college that thinks he sucks before he even attends his first class

also jmo but I'd have your hs superintendent, board president, & guidance person by the scruff of the neck (figurativly of course ) demanding to know why an "honor roll" student from your hs would be admitted to college only on academic probation ... makes no sense

quote:

by OS: But he had to meet the criteria extended to ALL applicants, right?

not necessarily, some coaches/programs can walk applications within a certain "academic range" thru admissions in a few minutes -
that's not to say they could (or would even want to) get a shakey academic student admitted, but fees are waived, required essays waived, etc and application stamped "accepted"

I am aware of that. My point was that we don't even know about SATs . Living 12 mins from the border I know that all the HS kids in the area around us are geared to taking SATs.Many have told me they have classes on taking them and mock tests put on by their HS.

like I said, this is all very new to me. But now I'm really confused. What exactly is a non-qualifier. I read the info on the link you enclosed, but still don't get it. You asked a few questions concerning my son, so here goes.
Is he being recruited? He has been in contact with the head coach and will be spending the next three weekends at a camp with him. Not sure if that's being recruited, but I would think he's interested.
Has he been offered athletic money?? No money talk yet, no bargaining has even begun. I'm hoping that when his season starts, the tables might turn. But like I mentioned, financial help is not an issue. I know many players that have not received athletic scholarships and still play, and some that have full rides. Is not be offered money an inclination that they are not interested?? I am trying to do my homework and make sense of this all.

Bee is correct. Coaches at some schools can get athletes admitted who otherwise would be rejected by admissions.

A major private D1 in the south has experienced internal squabbles over this practice for some time now.

a non-qualifier does not have the ACT+GPA for the ncaa clearinghouse to OK

someone will provide a link, I'm sure

yes, he is very possibly being recruited by camp contact ...
or he/you could just be paricipating in their fund raising campaign (camps)

camps by rule can't be free or discounted and I'm confused as to why a coach needs 3 weekends to evaluate a player ... I could guess, but you wouldn't like it

and, as he isn't eligible to play as a freshman not sure why baseball money would ever be offered and I wouldn't expect academic money for a guy on probation

imo, IF he attended and proved himself academicly while red-shirting his freshman yr, there isn't much incentive for coach to ever offer baseball money later


ps - 3 weekends of camp is red flag I can't get past

There are lots of things that can be confusing about college ball.
I think you are doing things backwards.
Get interest from a BB coach who wants your son. Get an greement hopefully with BB money and then go through the application with the coach. The offer will be conditional on your being admitted to the school. Since there is possibly a problem with the academics let the coach deal with it. If the coach can't swing it then if you want that school then you will have to live with their rules.
You are new here so you have missed some debate on college BB that would greatly help you. Coaches showing interest means very little until they commit to you and even then players get cut and RS. It is an ongoing challenge to make and keep roster spots.
You should find a BB coach that makes you an offer/commitment before anything else assuming your son really needs to play BB.

dannyp
IMO your son is limiting himself on being able to play a sport in college(baseball,football) by only staying in a certain area (local).If he really wants to play that sport ,go where they want him & has the best chance to play, it may not be local . IMO most players end up at a school that was not their top 5 choices . They ended up at the school that wanted them the most (= decent baseball scholarship & best opportunity to play).IMO the letters don't mean anything my son has a bankers storage box full of letters from D1 colleges from after his freshman yr to his sr year in hs and he's not even at any of those schools. IMO 1st team all league,all county etc. doesn't mean your going to continue playing baseball after hs , they're nice awards they received when they played in hs.Players develop the most after hs they get bigger,stronger,faster& best of all, they mature!Dannyp you have options , take a look at all of them . Good Luck

My only experience with a D11 coach was as follows.
I got a call saying he was interested in signing my son. Saw him in a Long Island tournament. Clocked him at 84MPH. He then told me what the school offered. Affiliation with top IVY schools minor league park etc. He aked about son's scores and marks. He then said he was sending me an offer that was contigent on admission to the school. He said he would have no problem. I had the HS send transcripts and had to verify Clearing House acceptance. We filled in the application, all fees waived and he took it to admissions. I called the damissions about a letter sent to me by them. I answered their question. I told the coach and he told me not to call them directly. Call him only. I received acceptance letter and a very generous offer from the coach. He actually said we had to be accepted before he could present the official offer. Son got max academic and according to the coach, the higest BB money ever offered to a BB player. It was no where near a full ride. Be carefull about the Full Ride BS in BB.

I 2nd Nuti's post.
BB money = love.

quote:

Originally posted by dannyp:

the wait begins, the stress is mounting, and I can't wait until this whole process is over!!

Danny, I'm not sure this will make you feel any better but be rest assured that you and your son are not the only ones in this boat alone. MANY are facing this same stress and want it over very quickly. In case you don't know there is another early signing period in April to look forward to.

Nutitup gives some pretty good common sense advise above that should be considered.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:

quote:

by OS: But he had to meet the criteria extended to ALL applicants, right?

not necessarily, some coaches/programs can walk applications within a certain "academic range" thru admissions in a few minutes -
that's not to say they could (or would even want to) get a shakey academic student admitted, but fees are waived, required essays waived, etc and application stamped "accepted"

BEE, I was referring to a comment not associated with the poster of origin.

My post relates to a reference that a college coach can get you more academic money in D1. I said everyone, baseball or not, must meet the criteria.