Adios PAC 12

Being a lifelong Big 8/12 fan this excites me.  I was prepping for the entire Big 12 to be absorbed into the other conferences once OU and UT left.

Conferences were once regional, so that travel is reduced for STUDENT-athletes.  Maybe with the rise of laptop computers, travel is not quite as disruptive to learning as it once was, but still.  I get that for basketball and football, money supersedes everything else, but it's unfortunate that athletes in all the other sports will now have to travel across the country to please the money-crazed ADs.  They really should have one set of conferences for basketball and football (and pay the athletes instead of pretending they are students), and another set of conferences for other sports.

@anotherparent, there are a lot more money crazed people involved in this than just ADs. University Presidents, Administrations, Boards of Regents, etc. are all equally guilty. These are collective decisions. I will grant you, it’s more that way some places than others.

Don’t love it. Didn’t like when they were trying to break the Big 12 either. I will barely recognize our conference in 2024.

Air travel isn't as bad as some expect it might be. These conferences have plenty of money to spend. The teams often fly by charter planes which is much better than a long uncomfortable bus ride.

They also send the academic advisors to make sure all work is done.

Believe it or not many athletes enjoy traveling to other parts of the country.

All lot of this is determined by how the conference aligns. SEC teams have 2 teams that they will play every year. Then there are east and west teams and that rotates.

I read an article that said this is inevitable given NIL.  The NIL money comes from the same pot of money (boosters).  This pot of money used to all go to the school.  Now, a big chunk is now going straight to the athletes.  The school has to find other avenues to replace the money (and to get even more money given the arms race).  Not sure what the answer is.

@TPM posted:

Air travel isn't as bad as some expect it might be. These conferences have plenty of money to spend. The teams often fly by charter planes which is much better than a long uncomfortable bus ride.

Football and Basketball.....yes, but most non revenue sports take buses or fly commercial.

@Master P posted:

Football and Basketball.....yes, but most non revenue sports take buses or fly commercial.

It takes 9 hours minimum to get from the West Coast to the East Coast. And that’s airport-to-airport, with a direct flight.

@atlnon posted:

I read an article that said this is inevitable given NIL.  The NIL money comes from the same pot of money (boosters).  This pot of money used to all go to the school.  Now, a big chunk is now going straight to the athletes.  The school has to find other avenues to replace the money (and to get even more money given the arms race).  Not sure what the answer is.

How did university presidents not foresee this?  Because it was pretty obvious this would happen.

@atlnon posted:

I read an article that said this is inevitable given NIL.  The NIL money comes from the same pot of money (boosters).

Can you post article?

While I agree about the boosters, most programs don't really have  NIL programs. Money cannot come directly from a booster fund.

In the P5 programs they get enough revenue support from sports. That's why everyone wants to align with profitable conferences, I am guessing.

@SpeedDemon posted:

It takes 9 hours minimum to get from the West Coast to the East Coast. And that’s airport-to-airport, with a direct flight.

Charter or commercial?

"Travel Coordinator" will be a new position in the Athletic dept. If the team #'s are larger than 30 they will charter a plane.

Purdue U in the Big 10 had a "charter service". Of course, when I played it was a"prop" duster.

For 24 years, I coordinated our American Team group of 50 players, coaches and parents from all regions of the USA to Australia, Japan, Korea and China. The airlines group desk are truly professionals. Very few "hic/ups".

Bob

Wasn’t if just a few years ago the university presidents stated the reason against extended football playoffs was too much travel and class time missed?

At some time in the next ten years the facade of the student-athlete will disappear. Athletes will become employees of the university. Like employees they will have the option of free tuition.

@RJM posted:

Wasn’t if just a few years ago the university presidents stated the reason against extended football playoffs was too much travel and class time missed?

At some time in the next ten years the facade of the student-athlete will disappear. Athletes will become employees of the university. Like employees they will have the option of free tuition.

College presidents have a very difficult time with the truth, and a very easy time justifying their narrative.

In the 11 minutes since @RJM  posted, I believe the facade of the student-athlete has changed to athlete-student.  We don't have to wait 10 years!

@TPM posted:

Can you post article?

While I agree about the boosters, most programs don't really have  NIL programs. Money cannot come directly from a booster fund.

In the P5 programs they get enough revenue support from sports. That's why everyone wants to align with profitable conferences, I am guessing.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth....years-in-the-making/

I'm a fan of doing away with conferences.  Play who you want.  The tradition is already gone so do away with the whole thing.  Starting next year it will be Power4 or maybe Power3 if the SEC raids the ACC like I think they will and go get Clemson, FSU, and UNC and maybe Duke for basketball.

I heard this was all about the Pac-12 not having tv revenue.  Not saying that is right or the only reason, but that's what someone told me who is not affiliated with college sports.

@TPM posted:

Charter or commercial?

Doesn't matter.

@SpeedDemon posted:

Doesn't matter.

It does. The NCAA allows teams to fly  over the mileage rate.

Many charter as it's more convenient. Team arrives at airport their baggage has been checked. They go through security gate by plane. Of course a lot of it depends upon the teams alloted budget done by the Baseball Ops person. P5 teams have trucks to deliver equipment.

But once again, this is why teams want to go to specific conferences because of the $$, same as students.

I don't think it's all going to fly... so to speak.

This might be a factor in asking specific questions upon a visit.

@PitchingFan posted:

I'm a fan of doing away with conferences.  Play who you want.  The tradition is already gone so do away with the whole thing.  Starting next year it will be Power4 or maybe Power3 if the SEC raids the ACC like I think they will and go get Clemson, FSU, and UNC and maybe Duke for basketball.

Was going to say the same thing.  Honestly, what's the point?  If it's not about regional travel and long-term local rivalries, then there's no point, other than "branding" which is a word I really dislike.  Just schedule whatever games you want.

I guess for schools that are not in contention for a national championship, winning the conference matters.  Gets you into the national tournament for a few rounds.  But then, have conferences for those schools, and one mega-pool for schools with ambitions.

@TPM posted:

Many charter as it's more convenient. Team arrives at airport their baggage has been checked. They go through security gate by plane. Of course a lot of it depends upon the teams alloted budget done by the Baseball Ops person. P5 teams have trucks to deliver equipment.

Since this is a baseball forum I think its important to note that the MAJORITY of D1 baseball teams DO NOT fly charter.  Not even the majority of P5 fly charter.

@Master P posted:

Since this is a baseball forum I think its important to note that the MAJORITY of D1 baseball teams DO NOT fly charter.  Not even the majority of P5 fly charter.

As I said depends on the mileage.  Majority are now close to each other. Those programs jumping on the bandwagon need to figure it out.

Question? How do students get their work done when on the road weeks at a time during winter?

@TPM posted:

It does. The NCAA allows teams to fly  over the mileage rate.

Many charter as it's more convenient. Team arrives at airport their baggage has been checked. They go through security gate by plane. Of course a lot of it depends upon the teams alloted budget done by the Baseball Ops person. P5 teams have trucks to deliver equipment.

But once again, this is why teams want to go to specific conferences because of the $$, same as students.

I don't think it's all going to fly... so to speak.

This might be a factor in asking specific questions upon a visit.

The average flight time from Los Angeles to New Jersey is 6 hours 4 minutes.

The flight time from Los Angeles to Pittsburgh is 4 hours, 27 minutes.

On average, the flight time from California to Ohio is 4 hours 56 minutes.

The flight time from Los Angeles to Indianapolis is 3 hours, 56 minutes.

If you travel with an airplane (which has average speed of 560 miles) from Los Angeles and Wisconsin, It takes 3.06 hours to arrive.

The flight time from Los Angeles to Minneapolis is 3 hours, 48 minutes.

The flight time from Los Angeles to Omaha is 3 hours, 3 minutes.

If you travel with an airplane (which has average speed of 560 miles) from Los Angeles to Illinois, it takes 2.93 hours to arrive.

These are the bare minimums. Nothing can shorten them but a lot of things can lengthen them.

@fenwaysouth posted:

College presidents have a very difficult time with the truth, and a very easy time justifying their narrative.

In the 11 minutes since @RJM  posted, I believe the facade of the student-athlete has changed to athlete-student.  We don't have to wait 10 years!

What I mean is athletes won’t have to attend class anymore. They will be employees with free tuition as an option. And they will be unionized.

TPM & Speed:

U of Hawaii,  traveled as a group with separate "check-in, separate baggage group tags for speedy "pick up".

On arrival a group airline official will expedite the baggage arrival and location of transit vans. Several teachers also travel to conduct daily classes for the 10 day trip.  Your flight times will be different as to "on time" arrival reported daily by each airport.

The final location for Stanford and UC Berkeley will be very interesting. The Big 10 will soon be the "Big 20".

Bob

@Consultant posted:

TPM & Speed:

U of Hawaii,  traveled as a group with separate "check-in, separate baggage group tags for speedy "pick up".

On arrival a group airline official will expedite the baggage arrival and location of transit vans. Several teachers also travel to conduct daily classes for the 10 day trip.  Your flight times will be different as to "on time" arrival reported daily by each airport.

The final location for Stanford and UC Berkeley will be very interesting. The Big 10 will soon be the "Big 20".

Bob

It takes around 5 hours 30 minutes to fly from Honolulu (HNL) to Los Angeles (LAX).

8.5 hours total. Nothing can shorten this. Lots of things can lengthen it.

What about the sports that play multiple games per week like soccer and basketball?

@SpeedDemon posted:

What about the sports that play multiple games per week like soccer and basketball?

They would schedule opponents close together. Non conference game schedules are made about year in advance. Conference about 2 years.

Don't forget  baseball teams  played in cold weather states (for non conference games) travel south.

Speed

The Schools and Conferences will use the MLB schedule computer.
UH played two weeks of games in 2 or more cities.

Sacramento, SLC on one trip. Daily classes and Tutors traveled.
Bob

On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 3:44 PM HS Baseball Web <alerts@crowdstack.com>
wrote:

@SpeedDemon

This is why I said, ask questions during recruiting.  Baseball teams don't fly that often. A lot, of course depends on location.

If flying is a problem, players should not commit to a school across the country.

@SpeedDemon posted:

The average flight time from Los Angeles to New Jersey is 6 hours 4 minutes.

The flight time from Los Angeles to Pittsburgh is 4 hours, 27 minutes.

On average, the flight time from California to Ohio is 4 hours 56 minutes.

The flight time from Los Angeles to Indianapolis is 3 hours, 56 minutes.

If you travel with an airplane (which has average speed of 560 miles) from Los Angeles and Wisconsin, It takes 3.06 hours to arrive.

The flight time from Los Angeles to Minneapolis is 3 hours, 48 minutes.

The flight time from Los Angeles to Omaha is 3 hours, 3 minutes.

If you travel with an airplane (which has average speed of 560 miles) from Los Angeles to Illinois, it takes 2.93 hours to arrive.

These are the bare minimums. Nothing can shorten them but a lot of things can lengthen them.

Your point exactly?

Here are the 2023-24

football  https://hawaiiathletics.com/sports/football/schedule

basketball  https://hawaiiathletics.com/sp...-basketball/schedule

baseball  https://hawaiiathletics.com/sports/baseball/schedule

schedules for the University of Hawaii.

Football team travels the farthest but never has back-to-back road games.

Baseball and basketball don't travel beyond the West Coast.

Majority of games for all teams are home games.

All trips to the mainland include the weekend.

Only basketball plays multiple opponents during a single road trip, unless it's spring or winter break.

Significantly less games scheduled than their mainland counterparts.

Looking at this, I see conference realignment as nothing but additional wear and tear on West Coast-based athletes, with the real potential for reduced schedules across all sports.

Football will not be effected.

Awful.

As I sit in an airport with likely a cancelled flight w rebook in 2 days, I hope these teams all fly charter....

Getting away from baseball series and football playing once a week most teams play conference games on Thursday and Saturday or Friday and Sunday. This won’t need to change.

UCLA currently has to travel to Seattle (UW) and Spokane (WSU) for Thursday, Saturday games. When they join the Big Ten it will be State College PA (PSU) and New Brunswick NJ (Rutgers).

Mid week non con games will likely still be against Pepperdine, LMU, UC Irvine, CS Long Beach, CS Fullerton, CS Northridge, etc..

All this conversation about travel is silly. Has everyone forgotten about carbon emissions?!? Oh, the horror! Of course all these teams will travel by electric vehicles. Especially in California. Anything less would be a threat to our democracy!

@RJM posted:

What I mean is athletes won’t have to attend class anymore. They will be employees with free tuition as an option. And they will be unionized.

Yes, this.  If universities are just a "brand", then this will be part of their brand, but separate from the educational part.

I don't know what tennis, swimming, wrestling, crew, etc. usually do for competitions, but I doubt the athletics departments are going to cater to their needs with tutors, meals, charter flights, etc.

@adbono posted:

All this conversation about travel is silly. Has everyone forgotten about carbon emissions?!? Oh, the horror! Of course all these teams will travel by electric vehicles. Especially in California. Anything less would be a threat to our democracy!

Yes, all those additional flights and miles do add to carbon emissions.

Screw carbon worries. All those college kids on planes are just going to jack up my travel even more. The NCAA continues to punish us.

We are talking P5 teams people not NAIA or juco.  They have charter flights for most sports.  Most of these teams have their own planes and definitely buses.  Our bus went to Omaha to be used during the week so that kinda tells you how the P5's see it.  Son flew charter almost every away game this year.  Welcome to big boy sports.  They will figure out how to get it done.  Most of these guys are taking all online classes anyways or they are taking classes that they can watch the class anytime.  My son's masters degree is completely online in leadership and communication.

Pitching Fan:

That was my Major in MSU Grad School. He can use my term paper "Interactionary Behavior of Professional Baseball Players".

Bob