Admission Standards

Agreed, son never would have made top state school without baseball admittance.

I've said before, many dont think twice about spending money for hitting or pitching tutoring but how many go out and get an educational tutor to help our kids.

TPM, I have actually wondered about both parts of your post before.

First, my son was accepted to every school he applied to while in HS... state and private. He was a VERY average HS student and I'd always heard about how a GPA had to be such and such. I'm sure I'll never know how much baseball played a part in his acceptance into the schools, but I'll always remain a bit surprised by it.

Second, I had felt like perhaps I made a mistake encouraging my son to take more advanced classes during HS. I did this and he ended up like I said, with a very average GPA. I had thought several times, maybe I should have allowed him to take regular classes, do nothing and achieve a higher GPA. Perhaps, I was right after all in my thoughts! Interesting as I have a HS sophomore daughter now!

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Second, I had felt like perhaps I made a mistake encouraging my son to take more advanced classes during HS. I did this and he ended up like I said, with a very average GPA.

No you didn't make a mistake. I have been told by more than one college admissions counselor that a B or sometimes a C in an honors course carries more weight than a higher grade in a lessor course. Likewise, college prep courses are given more weight than general curriculem courses i.e., college math/english/science is given more weight than general math/english/science, etc.

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So I am wondering, how many of you think and willing to admit that your son might not have gotten into the school he is now attending and playing for, WITHOUT baseball?

99.99999999999999999% sure it wouldn't have happened without baseball.

That said, 100% sure it wouldn't have happened without at least the minimum requirements to gain admission.

Lafmom,
Agree with CD.
I think if you read my post again you will see that more emphasis is placed upon difficulty of HS courses vs. GPA.

So for clarification as I have always stated GPA is important, with emphasis on the difficulty in courses he/she takes in HS.

I think admissions to a university is much more interested in a C in honors/AP classes than general college prep courses.

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Second, I had felt like perhaps I made a mistake encouraging my son to take more advanced classes during HS.

Lafmom....IMO....NOT a mistake AT ALL! Granted, he probably would have had a higher GPA with a more "normal" course load....BUT, the advanced classes gave him a taste of how he can handle a heavier and harder course load, which I am SURE is beneficial for him in how he handles his college course schedule.

In regard to my son....I am 100% sure that baseball had nothing to do with his gaining admittance to any of the schools he applied to. However, baseball DID make a difference in his decision as to which of those schools he ultimately decided to attend.

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I think if you read my post again you will see that more emphasis is placed upon difficulty of HS courses vs. GPA.

TPM - that's why I said perhaps now I can believe that I was correct in the approach I took. Both of your points were exactly what my son's experience was.

I agree, and we were told by a wise counselor at the start of my son's freshman year that he would benefit more by achieving an advanced degree in H.S. due to the stiff competition for college acceptance. He has maintained a 3.2 while taking Honors/AP courses on a much tougher grading scale (100-94 = A and 93-87 = b, etc...) than I was using in HS or college(100-90 = A and 89 to 80 = B, etc...) in the 80's. Many of the admissions counselors we have heard at the college tours we've been on say that they take grading scales into consideration....thoughts?

Lafmom,
Got ya!

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Many of the admissions counselors we have heard at the college tours we've been on say that they take grading scales into consideration....thoughts?

I don't remember this from my son's experience in '05. But I wonder if grading scales are consistent within states or is that something that is determined within counties of each state?

lafmom,

In our city it was different even between school districts.

When my son graduated HS 4.00 was as good as you could get no matter what courses you took. Back in 98 my nephew was one of 7 validictorians, but if you asked the others, they knew who was truly #1. Now there are students graduating with 4.5+ GPA's by taking advanced classes which seems to make it much fairer and I would guess easier for perspective colleges to rank and rate students.

I am all for weighing courses.

BTW, most colleges look at a lot more than GPA/SAT/ACT when considering student applications.

I know all the public schools here in my city use the same grading scale and recognize a weighted scale. I'm not sure though if the rest of my state uses the same scale though which I think is similar to the tougher scale Armyofone posted. As he states, that could make a big difference in a kid's GPA and I would believe a college would look at that.

We were fortunate son had very good grades and ACT, SAT scores but because of early recruiting interest from Ivy League schools Harvard, Yale Dartmouth and Columbia he set his sights on Harvard and Yale. Unfortunately those schools filled there recruitment needs and on his own his grades weren't enough to get him accepted.

Interestingly enough I seriously doubt he would have thought of attending Lafayette if it weren't for baseball. So good grades and good baseball combined to open a door he might not have seen.

I've heard that college admission's offices have access to a high school ranking system.....high schools across the country are ranked according to degree of difficulty....and this is taken into consideration during the admissions process.......I hope they do because I worked in 2 high schools in the same city....and the difference in course quality/difficulty was like night and day....

Baseball did not help son to gain admission, but it did help financially.....as did his high GPA and SAT's....

I remember son's senior HS year...we were invited to a seminar held at the UofA.....the financial aid/scholarship reps in attendance advised us that all attendees, because they represented the top 2% of their HS's would be eligible for a base scholarship, and that all HS courses were unweighted by the University in determining the top 2%....but any additional monetary awards would be based on their high school transcripts....and the level of course difficulty......

...and finally for those of us with sons playing college ball and having requirements to maintain a certain GPA to keep academic scholarship money....those advanced HS courses help prepare them for doing so....

I think this should be a two part question! The missing question is: did your son get into the degree program he desired? --assuming he has any clue at that point My son's coach told him that he couldn't do anything about his engineering school application, however if he got rejected he could help him find a major/program in the college that would accept him based upon his sat score.

Personally I don't think my son's enrollment was helped by baseball and/or his AP classes, I felt when the process was done, acceptance into engineering school at most public CA schools was based upon his SAT score. I could be wrong.


---At my son's HS they had charts of every school that kids from his school had applied to broken down by grades, SAT score and acceptance. FOr the California schools the clearest cut off between acceptance and rejection was the sat score. i.e. unless you hit 1400 (old scale) your chances of getting inbto UCB or UCLA were pretty much 0. However the charts did not indicate which program the kids were applying at the various school.

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How many of you just beginning the recruiting process realize how difficult it is to be accepted into top state colleges, let alone trying to seek admission from out of state schools.

We just returned from a prospect camp at an ACC school that has high academic standards. During the talk from the head coach he was very upfront that the normal standards for admissions at this school were in the 4.0 GPA and 1300-1400 SAT’s range. He then said because of athletics he could get players admitted with a somewhat reduced GPA’s of 3.00 to 3.5, and SAT scores ranging from 1000 to1100 or higher.

This was later confirmed for me by one of the in state parents of a player at the camp. They told me their primarily reason for attending the camp was hoping that the team would offer his son anything (books) to help with the admissions to get into the school.

So yes, TPM it is apparent to me that being able to throw a baseball a little bit might help my son tremendously in getting into a school of his choice.

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Originally posted by jerseydad:
During the talk from the head coach he was very upfront that the normal standards for admissions at this school were in the 4.0 GPA and 1300-1400 SAT’s range. He then said because of athletics he could get players admitted with a somewhat reduced GPA’s of 3.00 to 3.5, and SAT scores ranging from 1000 to 1100 or higher.

For a school with "high academic standards", their coach seems a bit out of the loop. They might want to inform the coach the scale for SAT's changed. The scores you listed would be rather low on the new 2400 scale.

BtBfan- There was no mention of SAT subject test or if they accepted ACT's

Beezer- I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the coach probably has a pretty good idea of what is needed to be admitted. Isn't it true that many schools do not use the essay portion of the new SAT's?

In this state, we have an organization called NHEAF (New Hampshire Higher Education Assistance Foundation). I don't the full scope of their duties, but I do know that they run a program every fall called "Discover U" that is designed to get 8th graders interested in college. The reason is that according to their research, a majority of kids formulate the idea to attend or not attend college by the time they are in the 8th grade. They further say that if one were to poll high school students, 90% would say they plan to go to college, but only 50% would be taking the courses necessary to get them there. The Discover U program is designed to spark students interest in attending college and educate both students and parents in what will be required to achieve that goal.

The year my son was in 8th grade, he had the choice of attending the program on the campus of St. Anselm, Franklin Pierce, and one other school that I can't remember off-hand. He looked first at which schools had his intended major (which remains the same to this day) and second at the strength of their baseball program.

When we attended the school he chose, the kids had a question and answer session with a panel of college students from 10 different colleges throughout our state, they toured the campus, and they filmed a game show in the television studio while we parents had our own Q&A session with admissions directors and financial aid officers from a number of different colleges - both public and private.

Among the eye-opening tidbits that I picked up (eye-opening for me anyway) was that it is better for high school students to challenge themselves by taking harder courses than to take courses which assure a 4.0 GPA. Reason? Students who will challenge themselves in high school are more likely to challenge themselves in college. Additionally, they said that college admissions counsellors have access to each student's HS grade point scale (weighted and non-weighted) and they have access to the list of courses offered by each HS, so they know what courses the student had available to them and they know if the student took the easy way out to get the higher grades.

My son has opted for honors level classes and has an average GPA. That will no doubt close some doors for him, but the movement on his fastball may open others. We shall see.

Son would be where he is now, because he was admitted as a regular applicant and was not recruited for baseball there. He was an invited walkon (invited in the spring of his senior year, while he was deciding where to go) who has fortunately gotten to play as well.

That said, I am sure that his commitment to and passion for baseball played a part in admissions decisions, not for being an impact player, but for showing the dedication and excellence in non-academic areas that most colleges want to see (as well as having scores, grades and other extracurricular achievements that made him prime pickings anywhere).

College admissions have become terribly, one might say, TOO, competitive: the result of all the baby boomers like me having so many children, and few if any colleges increasing the size of their classes. Collegeconfidential.com has chilling information and statistics if anyone dares to look at it! With two daughters now in high school, neither of whom will be recruited athletes, I am acutely aware of how the athletic angle helps to focus and clarify the college search and application process.

There's a really interesting book titled, "Questions and Admissions" written by a former Stanford admissions Dean, Jean Fetter. I read this book after my son was recruited and admitted to Stanford.

It does not reveal the "secret formula" for admissions to Stanford nor to any highly competitive school...but it does share a lot of interesting philosophies of admissions practices related to athletes, musicians, entrepreneurs, authors, etc... that probably apply at nearly every school. There are specific examples given including Janet Evans and Roscoe Tanner and the value they bring to the campus as a whole.

Highly competitive schools like the Ivies, Stanford and others place a high value on accepting students who bring more than one thing to the table. While still highly competitive for admissions even of student athletes (thus making competing at a very high level in a sport like football where 35+ very talented players are required) they want excellence in both academics AND something-else as Bordeaux points out (BTW, her son is a real anomaly...a nearly straight-A computer science major and a highly contributing/sometimes starting pitcher ). Many kids from my area apply to Stanford and the Ivies every year with 4.0+ GPAs only to be turned down.

The book makes it clear that if grades are all a student is bringing to the table, then he/she is not a likely admit at all. This is often frustrating to parents and students as its awfully tough to be turned down when you never got a grade below an "A."

So when the question is asked, "would your son have been admitted without baseball?" I will turn it around and ask, "SHOULD a student be admitted without baseball (or something equivalent)?"

Apparently the answer is no from many top-flight universities and thus I don't think its anything to feel embarrassed or even lucky about.

Son was and is a good student and had good SAT/ACT scores, but I have to admit his fastball probably helped get him into that limited group of "accepted" applicants. Son's college requires a student to declare his major as a freshman, then limits by major the number of students they accept each year!

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For a school with "high academic standards", their coach seems a bit out of the loop. They might want to inform the coach the scale for SAT's changed. The scores you listed would be rather low on the new 2400 scale.

All fo the schools that we visited this year DI-DIII have said that for the class of 2007, they are still only considering Reading and Math score from new SAT-there's just not enough stats yet to know how to use them.

Well, I could quibble with the use of the word "anomaly" as I think it has a somewhat pejorative connotation and I am sure that you didn't mean that.

I think it is interesting that there are generally only a few sports where academic admissions standards have to be significantly lowered in order to admit recruited athletes, football and basketball being the most talked-about and notable in terms of GPA, scores, and graduation rates. Is that true or is it just anecdotal? If true, does anyone have any idea why that is?

Bordeaux - You know it was only meant in the most complimentary way. Your son is very special on any scale...someone I personally look "up" too.

The book I referred too seems to say that football is the toughest call for an admissions officer.

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Originally posted by MD21:
All fo the schools that we visited this year DI-DIII have said that for the class of 2007, they are still only considering Reading and Math score from new SAT-there's just not enough stats yet to know how to use them.

MD21 / Jerseydad - That's a good point. When my daughter was being recruited by DIII's they never really mentioned what it would take to get her in since she had already taken the SAT (and ACT) and her scores and GPA were pretty decent and within their admissions criteria. These were not "elite" schools but very good schools nonetheless.

To touch on something justbaseball said... "Highly competitive schools like the Ivies, Stanford and others place a high value on accepting students who bring more than one thing to the table." I remember when I was looking at a "Highly Selective" DIII school, I met with the Dean of Students and we were talking about test scores and grades. And he said something very much along the same lines. He said something to the effect that they'd rather get well rounded students with very good grades who participate in athletics and or several other activities than students with near perfect scores but little else on their resume.

Another tidbit I've heard recently is that the college student population is at all time highs and the classes of HS graduates in '05 - '07 are the peak which is causing the colleges to be more selective. I haven't seen the statistics but I'm guessing this will drop off in a couple years.