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17 replies

alternatives to long toss in poor weather.

WklinkWklink500+ posts
I posted this in the pre-HS forum and then realized it might be better here. Please note that I am not looking for something to replace long toss all together, just something for poor weather days.

Living in the Pacific Northwest it is sometimes difficult in the winter months getting the throwing time in that I want with my 12 year old. Lets face it, this place is rainy as all get out and the boy (and myself) really don't like going out and throwing in a field in the pouring rain. When it isn't raining we get outside but we get two to three straight weeks of rain sometimes and it is difficult.

I want him to maintain arm strength during this time period but it is difficult. We have an indoor batting cage in town with about an 80 foot length that he can practice pitching and flat throwing and that is fine but what other suggestions can I get to keep that arm strength up during the winter months. I have had him do band work and a lot of stretching to increase flexibility and overall arm strength but there is no alternative to throwing the baseball.
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Y Yardbird100+ posts
WKlink,

You can throw maximally from any distance; long toss only has one advantage, its fun!
Long toss teaches your body to release at an incorrect angle and if you are using the traditional pitching mechanics they are nothing like what is happening in long toss.

I have all my pitchers do all their maximal throws from the mound that is much better
to train closer to what is actually happening mechanically.

Is your son biologically 12 also? Or is he biologically 11? This needs to be known.
If he is under biologically 13 years old you should not be throwing competitively or training ballistic ally more than 3 months a year! Only adults need to maintain year round
maximal fitness.

quote:
“a lot of stretching to increase flexibility”


Laxity from stretching is a negative not a positive! A loose shoulder capsule is to be avoided, not produced from stretching, it has been established by the Center for disease Control that stretching is bad for you and especially the over exaggerated baseball stretches. If you stretch before competition you loose 6% of your ability to perform. Drop the stretching.

http://www.drmikemarshall.com/...sMuscleInjuries.html
RobVRobV100+ posts
Throwing into a net is a great alternative.

You can find nets for a very cheap price (I bought mine for less than $15). If you have a basement or garage (although a garage is probably colder so you'll need to warm up and dress warmer there) you can buy a net, hang it from the rafters, get a bucket of balls (or just a few), and throw into that.

You can throw anytime you want with this setup.
Last edited by RobV
C Coach_Dave100+ posts
quote:
stretching is a negative not a positive! A loose shoulder capsule is to be avoided, not produced from stretching, it has been established by the Center for disease Control that stretching is bad for you and especially the over exaggerated baseball stretches. If you stretch before competition you loose 6% of your ability to perform. Drop the stretching.


This is interesting to me. Goes against everything i have been taught. Are you doing just dynamic warm up then on to throwing?
WklinkWklink500+ posts
I was curious about that too. I don't have Danny do anything excessive but I have always been taught that a major component of pitching was flexibility. It doesn't make any sense to not increase your flexibility, especially in the back and legs when you are trying for that whipping motion.

As for my son, he is 12.5, closer to 13 than 12. He generally throws twice a week during the off season. I have found that him throwing has allowed him to maintain 80 pitch counts in games without any dropoff in his control. The problem arises during these couple of months when the weather can be frustrating for him.

The garage and net idea is a good one except that the garage is actually filled with my two 1963 Thunderbirds. I could do that at the cages though.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
While I do not always agree with Yardbird, he is correct.
The problem is that most think that you need to stretch before warm up, it's the opposite.
I also think that for tossing each pitcher is different, you find what is best for you in your toss program and that includes distance. For him, it has been recommended he does not toss everyday and at shorter distances. It might be different for non pitchers or others. You must be careful you do not loosen the capsule too much.

BTW, my pitcher has specific stretches he does after a game for the cool down. Before a game he performs some of the stuff you will see to the left of the article (and in the video) after a 5-10 (max) minutes of jogging. This I assume is also his philosophy in the off season.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11...azine/112pewarm.html
Last edited by TPM
P Prime91,000+ posts
quote:
Laxity from stretching is a negative not a positive! A loose shoulder capsule is to be avoided, not produced from stretching, it has been established by the Center for disease Control that stretching is bad for you and especially the over exaggerated baseball stretches. If you stretch before competition you loose 6% of your ability to perform. Drop the stretching.

http://www.drmikemarshall.com/...sMuscleInjuries.html


I've read the CDC study and it's limited in scope, been contradicted by other sources and just doesn't ring correct in my experiences. True, stretching to warm-up is harmful. Stretching is done after warm-ups when ballistic movements are very beneficial (precisely why dancers, gymnists and martial artists rely on them). Flexibility IS AN intregral part of athleticism. No, stetching doesn't in itself, doesn't prevent injury. It does improve "range of motion" dramatically and that can only help in quick, explosive movements like exploding on the baseball. I'm 60 and haven't had a lower back ache or problem in the forty years I've been stretching regularly. Yes, stretching before stenuous exercise CAN lead to injury. Most things in life require a good balance, fitness is no different.
BumBum1,000+ posts
wklink, my kid is Northwest kid and he long-tossed year-round since age 11. In the cold, he'd throw up against a racquetball court wall.. but he ALWAYS threw. Born and raised in Seattle.. I know the typical winter day in Olympia is 40-50, so throwing can be done outside. I know it rains but it is not constant, pouring rain.. I don't see how light showers should stop you.
WklinkWklink500+ posts
It actually hasn't been this year, that is part of the problem. We had a two week time frame where the temp was below 25, during the day. I grew up in the midwest and it still seemed cold to me. Last year it snowed five times, iced twice. It was colder last year here in Olympia than it was in my hometown of GAlesburg, Illinois.

He is dedicated and he goes out and throws but I don't expect him to hit the cage (we have a 70 foot cage in the backyard) and throw when it is below freezing. Likewise if there is snow (we had snow and ice on the ground for over a week before it melted last year) on the ground I don't have him throw.

The climate is changing. It may be warmer other places but it isn't here.
BumBum1,000+ posts
Wklink, wait a moment.. sorry to bust out statistics on you but..Olympia is in a bit of a rain zone at 50 inches per year, but a LOT of east coast cities get that much. Drive a few miles out of town, and in cities like Seattle.. where folks think it rains all the time.. it really only gets 37 inches a year, lower than nearly ALL east coast cities.

As for temperatures, here are Olympia WA and Galesburg IL averages:

Olympia: Jan/High 44, low 25 Mar/High 53, low 34
Galesburg: Jan/High 30, low 16, Mar/High 43, low 25

So no, it is much warmer in Olympia. But hey, you can always rig up a net in your basement.
Last edited by Bum
WklinkWklink500+ posts
Bum I'm not talking about averages, I'm talking about the last couple of years. It has warmed up some and Danny is doing some throwing but two weeks ago it was under 25 for almost a week. Last year we literally had snow and ice for an entire month. I distinctly remember that part, a guy in a Jeep Liberty nailed my 1965 Fairlane on the highway in January last year.

No it's not Galesburg 24/7 but there are times when the weather does turn to total dog doo out here and those are the days I want to know about alternatives. This isn't something to do in place of long toss as far as the winter goes, it is something to do on those 15-25 days a year when it either too icy or simply too snowy to let the kid throw safely. Drizzle isn't a big deal but torrents of rain or ice are another thing. Those are the days when I want an alternative-and not just the PS3.
redsox8191redsox8191500+ posts
That isn't winter weather that is spring baseball weather out here!! Come to Northern New England (VT, NH & ME) then you'll have an issue with throwing outdoors year round!! Razz

Just had to bust your chops...rain is nothing..at least the fields aren't under 6" or more of snow right now!! It is warm here right now..might hit 30 today! Been in the teens for the last two weeks, not counting wind chill that is!

On a serious not a net in the basement or garage really seems to be the answer to your question.

Fivehole - I remember reading that Jeff Locke used to pitch all winter in his school gym. Down here in Southern NH the gyms are always in use for school sports or park & rec games so no availability for a kid to go throw in them unfortunately. yout lucky to have access to them up there!
Last edited by redsox8191
WklinkWklink500+ posts
I think I will do the net thing. I will have to move out the 1962 T-bird but it won't hurt it to get a little bit wet. It's not like I can't put it back in the garage.

Good days he is in the cage throwing.

Redsox I appreciate what kids in the NE have to go through. We had some really nasty stuff growing up in the midwest, ice storms, blowing snow, etc. etc. At least kids can practice with snowballs up there Big Grin .
Last edited by Wklink
BumBum1,000+ posts
Wklink, 25 or lower in Olympia for an extended period is very unusual. I grew up in Seattle and we very rarely had snow.. sometimes going 3-4 years before a few inches. But every once in awhile, we'd get a big one.. and it was cool! Everyone thinks it's cold up in the NW but 40-50 in January is normal while most of the country is dealing with below freezing. The PNW is very mild.

I think you are experiencing a weather anomoly.. 25 or lower for an extended period in Olympia is VERY rare. Hang in there. Good luck to your kid. Let me know how it turns out.
Last edited by Bum
WklinkWklink500+ posts
Yes, it is back to normal now. I took Daniel out for some long toss and some fly ball shagging on Sunday before his team's practice and it was back up to the 50s.

Nothing makes you feel older than hitting a ball 200 feet to your kid only to have him fling it back face high right at your head. It really stinks when your kid outdoes you at your favorate sport before he reaches full puberty.

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