American Legion

Well since they are from NJ and LA and playing in NC, does that qualify as "travel." 

 

I would say this.  The 90 mph guys get all the publicity.  They are at Perfect Game, Under Armor and the like.  But truthfully, in the world that is high school baseball how many 90 mph guys are there really.  I think most HS pitcher are probably 80 something. 

Am Legion in our area is a choice like another travel ball team would be.  They only play on this team and not others. Most kids on it are Div 2-3 type players, if they play college ball at all.  Nice group of boys and they are having fun.

I saw a bit of the game last night too. 135 is way too much IMO , this is probably a kid who pitched a lot at his HS, AND to get to the !egion semifinals. Wonder if he's playing college somewhere. if I was college coach getting him I wouldn't be happy.

For all of the talk about 90+ MPH guys they are still very rare.  I understand some HS teams will have several guys in that range.  In my experience they are rare.  I have seen a lot of kids that sit 86, touch 88 who end up getting talked up and people say they sit 90.  Where I live the average for a senior in HS is probably 80. A few at 76 and few at 84.  Rarely is anyone touching 90.  Every kid that sitting 90 or higher has been drafted....that has been a total of 2 over the past 5 or 6 years.  The city I live in has 10 high school the region has 16 or 17 or so.  

I also have rarely seen a real hard thrower in years of travel ball.  My son was not going to Perfect Game or other "elite" events, just normal travel ball.  There are true hard throwers out there for sure, but, when looked at in pure percentage of overall HS age players, they are rare.  

I looked up the kid who threw all those pitches.  He went 9.1 innings in that game.  He has played in 12 different PG events with a top velocity of 87.  I saw him late in the game, so maybe he hit that earlier.    He's played in a PG event as recent as April of this year.  He's played on 5 different travel teams over the years.  He is committed to go to Rutgers according to the PG website.  He's a 2015, so I think if I were Rutgers, I'd be miffed.  He'll be going into the fall for them with some pretty good wear on his arm...

Looked on Rutger's website.  It says in his recruiting announcement he missed most of his sophomore year and all of his junior year with an injury.  Man... you would think that he, his parents and the Legion coach would be a little more careful with him after all that has already happened.  And you wonder why pitch counts and pitcher health is still a topic so widely talked about.

I watched the first round game online and Brooklawn had a pitcher who was throwing in the 90's. A rising senior and committed to Fla. St. PG had his fastball at 94. And they said last night on the telecast that their ace pitcher was injured and couldn't play. I'm assuming it was him?

 

I really shouldn't make an assumption of quality of play based on part of one game.  I'm really just not that familiar with American Legion, so I was curious as to whether most of these kids only play Legion or if they play travel/tournament/showcase/PG ball as well.  From what I've read on this board, AL is much more prevalent in some areas of the country than others and maybe that's what all the best players do in those areas of the country.

I watched a lot of that game last night too.  I believe he was pulled at 138 pitches.  I don't know how many the kid the day before threw, but the announcers said he went 11 innings so you have to assume it was in the same range.  I saw a kid get put in that was taken out of the field without a bullpen warm-up.  They said the left fielder had pitched yesterday.  The final line showed 5 errors.  Most of the stuff I saw was 80-82, with plenty of 78 thrown in there and the game was 2-2 heading into the late innings. 

 

I can see teams getting low on pitching late in the tourney, but you'd think the hitters would be pounding if the pitching was getting thin.  Not passing judgment, but that's what I saw in the game last night.  I guess the finals are on tonight.

Here's a common scenario that I've seen... Kid plays legion, then following hs junior year will play showcase in the summer and fall, then returns to the legion program following senior year.

Legion is one of the high school options in our area. In fact, one of the teams in the Semis was from Oregon. My son, as an incoming sophomore, played Legion A ball this summer (the World Series on TV right now is AAA - the highest level). A lot of kids in our area do not play travel ball, for a variety of reasons. They play with their high school teams over the summer and Legion is one of the options (there are 3 competing leagues, but legion is probably the highest level of non-travel competition). In Legion ball, you can have current high school kids and kids who graduated a year ago (2014 grads who have a year of college ball under their belts). The Oregon team is pretty dominant for our State, both during summer and the regular high school season. Those kids will primarily play D3 or NAIA. Some of them will play for top D3 programs.

 

The Oregon team that was in the Semis is from a pretty rural area of the state. There aren't really any baseball options, other than their high school team. Many of those kids work out year round with their high school coach, at least to the limit allowed by state rules. In the off season, the coach is allowed to work with 2 kids per day. He is booked 7 days per week. They are a very dedicated program. Their Legion A team also won state and advanced to regionals. My son got the opportunity to pitch against them (I call it an opportunity because they were the best hitting team he has ever faced) and he only gave up a few runs. It was a great learning experience.

 

When I hear everyone on this board talking about all their travel ball opportunities, I can't really relate. Although there are a few high school age travel ball teams, it's nothing compared to what other parts of the country have. In our case, my son will be playing both American Legion and one of the few 16U showcase teams in our area next summer (he just got the invite last week). In order for him to play on the showcase team, we have to commit to driving across town, which can be 1-1.5 hours one way, depending on traffic.

 

 

That Brooklawn team is very good it would hold its own vs just about any regional travel team. It is managed by the same Barth family that runs the tri-state arsenal, cousin or brother or whatever. The old man who built them just past away a year or 2 ago.

 

They are pretty much hated by each and every legion team in the mid-atlantic but they are good. When I have seen them they have seldom missed a chance to tell you how good they are as well!

Can confirm pretty much everything of what old_school just said.

KandK's comment reflects our experience. In Oregon, travel ball is not a big thing. Most kids, even the recruits, play Legion ball in the summer. The traditional Legion team is a combination of five or so HS varsity programs with graduated seniors and up to 19 year old returning college freshman. 

 

So, the level is quite a bit above that of a high school varsity team, but it certainly would not be likey as competitive as a top quality travel team, on average.

 

I will say that it was really great not to have the travel ball option when my son was in his HS years, 2006-09. He did go to a few showcases and camps, of course. But his experience is proof that there is a route top conference college ball that doesn't include travel ball.

 

If it makes you feel any better, there are at least a half dozen travel ball kids in my area who travel 4-8 hours (one way) pretty much every weekend to weekend tournaments in June and July.

 

Brooklawn is virtually the whole Gloucester Catholic baseball team from NJ, they've been a nationally ranked HS team over last couple of years. They have run roughshod over the NJ Legion Teams for years (We are in North NJ). Our team played them in states a couple of years ago and they are a tremendous baseball team. Also annoying as others have said. 

 

Our American Legion team is comprised of local boys from a specific HS district. It's a small HS, so there's that. On top of that, on a 16 player roster, only my son played both legion and club travel. So you get what you get. 2016 plays with these boys that he grew up with since he doesn't attend the same HS and it gives him a chance to play with his friends. 

 

I've known 75% of these boys since they were little, and for the most part, they like playing ball, they aren't driven to play ball. So they play legion (free in our town). For many of the graduated seniors (7-8 players) it really was the last time they will play competitive ball. I think one boy will play at a county college next season. 

One other thing is they seem to be able to be able to keep young kids together at 12, 14 and so on to feed the program. they play good baseball at the younger ages as well so it is certainly a top to bottom program. LOL the younger kids obviously watch the legion team closely because they play and talk the same style. I was at Diamond Nation last year and Brooklawn was playing a team from NE in the u15 semis (yes I know the name but they aren't the topic so I will leave them out), the teams were killing each other verbally, the parents were screaming at each other, the umps were giving warning to both sets of parents - as a non involved bystander it was great...just another night with Brooklawn!

Ugh. We will be traveling that to most of the tournaments next summer, but there are only a few. The 1-1.5 hours is for preseason training - from our home to the facility. I'm hoping the practice schedule is not too overwhelming.

bballman,

 

I believe we are both from the same area (Metro ATL, GA) and there is a Legion team that plays out of Alpharetta (at Legion Field, across from Wills Park).  Likely that your son played a ton of Triple Crown games on that field as Tony uses it regularly for 60/90 divisions.  I know Legion ball is huge across the midwest.  My son played some legion teams out of Ohio in the Triple Crown nationals in Myrtle Beach over a couple of summers.  They tend to be very sound fundamental teams that play hard.

 

I would suspect that like anything else, the quality of Legion ball varies from area to area.  My guess is the Alpharetta team wouldn't compete with the top travel organizations in their age group around metro Atlanta (ECB, Team Elite, Team GA, 643, etc), so the top players likely don't gravitate there.  Two links below, one is the roster for Post 201 Yankees (Alpharetta team) and the other shows the 8 Legion teams in Georgia.

 

http://www.legion.org/baseball/teams/98885

 

http://www.legion.org/baseball/teams/georgia?s=2015

 

"Travel" used to refer to games. Now it even includes training!

 

In Ohio you can't have more than 4 kids from the same school on any "non-school" team....whether it's Legion or travel...in any sport.  If a kid graduated this past spring, he doesn't count toward that number....only kids who will be back in HS this fall.

I assume this is a HS federation rule?  Just curious, but what happens if 5 kids are found to play on the same Legion or travel team?  Are they all ruled ineligible to play HS ball the next season?

Yes Nuke83, I am from your neck of the woods.  My son has played plenty of games at the Legion field in Alpharetta.  In fact played a bunch there this summer on his College Summer team. They have actually done a lot of work to the field lately and it is quite nice.

 

I knew there was a team there, but quite frankly, I wasn't sure it even existed still.  In all the years my son has been playing, I only knew or heard of one kid playing Legion ball.  

 

I'm on the opposite side of what some have said here.  I can't relate what it's like to have a Legion presence.  Around North Metro area, there are hundreds and hundreds of travel ball teams.  There must be at least 50 in each age group just in NW Metro Atlanta.  There are really TOO many.  I've often thought if the metro Atlanta area could put together one team, I'm not sure anyone in the nation could beat them.

After posting, I looked up their roster.  Looks like most of the kids on the Legion team made up the core of Windward Baseball Academy team that played in some PG tourneys this summer. 

 

The best part of playing at Legion field is the quick dash inside to grab a beer between games.  They do an excellent job of maintaining their field and take a lot of pride in it.  One of my favorite venues for watching games around here.

Nuke: Totally agree with you especially statements bolded.  To add to your comments keep in mind that legion teams have geographic boundaries--teams cannot just pull in a "weekend warrior" from another area or AAU. There are definitely some teams (top echelons of top participatory states) that could compete with travel. Son played against one who had 4, possibly 5 D1 pitchers on its staff --a 2016 reliever hasn't committed yet. (Upset in state championship, though). As one of posters said, many of these kids played together for several years. Now there is a level below 19U (senior), 17U(junior), and 15U in some areas. While the hitters drop off after 6 or 7 in batting order on a number of teams, still like watching baseball whose rules follow MLB (though not all areas use wood bats). I hate attending HS games where coach can say I am intentionally walking the batter, and the pitcher doesn't have to throw the pitches. For the better team games in zone, quite a bit of strategy...Looking forward to championship.

Yes, they do.  We hadn't played there in a number of years until this summer.  I was very impressed with what they had done.  Re-did the dugouts, the brick walls and iron fencing look fantastic!! And the field itself is top notch.  They went all out for sure.  Concessions are pretty darned good as well - if a little slow.  But, who's to complain about that.  Really a nice facility.

I have to say the same thing about the Legion field we played at for State. It is used only for Legion games during the summer and it is very well taken care of. The guys and gals who staffed our state tournament were very kind and welcoming. They run a tight ship and we were thankful for the great reception and playing environment.

American Legion is huge up here in Minnesota just because of the fact that theres only one maybe two travel ball teams who go to weak tournaments and get crushed, so all of the top guys play legion. Here our teams are basically the varsity teams from high school season with one or two returning college freshman, most of the top teams have a few D1 or D3 commits playing with them my school for example had two D1 infielders a D1 pitcher three D3 outfielders and a pitcher going to a nationally ranked team. I feel like the talent of the american legion teams depend on the location of the team, most of the time a team from Minnesota would get crushed by a good georgia team but the tables might be turned during american legion

When my son was in high school the overall quality of Legion ball in the five country Philadelphia metro area was poor. It was mostly middle of the road varsity and JV players. The talent plays travel. When my son played in the Marzano Scout League Brooklawn entered a team. The travel teams mostly buried them.

 

I watched any inning of the Legion WS the other day. One pitcher was cruising 75. The other was cruising 82. The kid hitting 75 threw in the upper 50s off speed. That's when you tell hitters sit on the off speed stuff. He'll never throw a fastball by you.

I have nothing against the teams and players participating in the American Legion WS.  I know my son would have loved to have had the opportunity to participate if his Legion team had made it that far.

 

But having said that, he saw far better pitching in his home HS district and travel ball.  Most of the local AL teams had pretty good pitching - usually in the mid 80's, maybe a few near 90.  I don't remember any pitcher slower than low 80's and most were in the low-mid 80's with one or two around 90.

 

I almost laughed when one commentator said the FB blew by the batter and the pitch was in the low 80's.

Well, SC won it all. Good for them!!  Must be very exciting to win a National Championship.

I saw about the same thing tonight as last night. Mostly low 80s FBs. 1st guy for Louisiana hit 85 once that I saw and hit 84 a few times. Mostly 80-83. Other guys were 79-83 or so. Still some good baseball and a great experience for all the kids on both teams.

Congrats to the SC team!!

I live in Nebraska and like 2017 it's our only option and each team is essentially the same as the high school spring team.  If my son were to play quality travel ball it would mean moving away from home and quite frankly is not in the budget. We have kids from Omaha go D1 every year so I'm confident it's not necessary. If he doesn't get offers it will be because he's not good enough.

Most top DI type players from Nebraska end up at Nebraska or Creighton.  I would be a little concerned if neither of those colleges showed interest.

 

Interesting enough, we had an excellent Nebraska prospect at our National and also in the PG All American Game. I believe he did play travel ball this summer. Cole Stobbe, he can really hit and hit with power. Plus he is a very good athlete.

BTW, Stobbe is from Omaha and he's committed to the U of Arkansas.  He also has a chance to be an early draft pick.

I have a son Cole's age(no longer playing baseball). I know Cole played varsity as a freshman at Millard West. He's definitely a stud. I assumed Cole's connection with Arkansas was due to ties from when the coach was at Nebraska. But that was just my guess.  My youngest was a freshman and only had 2 appearances on varsity and not against Millard West. Is it bad that I'm hoping he doesn't pitch against Millard West next year?  I'm sure he would relish the opportunity but I'm not sure his mama could handle it.

I think that Legion is relative to where you are. When I was a pitching coach for a team out of STL we had 3 D1 kids one of which ended up getting drafted. Along with everyone of the bench with the exception of two go off to play college ball. That same program is now not a program anymore because more options have entered the area. I think it just goes in cycles. I will tell you though that the talent level in some of the organizations is a little diluted now but they are still better than legion at the moment. 

 

Now there is no disrespect to legion but right now people are buying into the idea of the more you pay the better it is. 

Legion Ball is virtually non-existent in baseball-hotbed states, where kids play the MOST baseball...

 

- California (37-Teams)
- Florida (14-Teams)
- Georgia (8-Teams)
- Texas (12-Teams)

 

There are probably more kids playing baseball in these states than all 46-other states combined...

 

It's unfortunate that one - of if not THE -  oldest amateur baseball organization in the US cannot regain the stature in these states it had say 25-30 years ago... It would probably take Legion throwing a "Hail Mary" and offer FREE, fully-funded baseball for years in these states... A HUGE initiative just to re-stock the pond... If they could make inroads in these states, it could possibly, over a relatively short period, be a viable option to a ton of kids that want to play...

Hi All. I am new to the scene and trying to soak up all the information I can. My daughter played travel softball for many years and is now heading off to study and play D3 ball at a school here in New England. It was a grind with her at times. I pushed too hard, she pushed back. In the end she found the level of play that made her happy and I learned to keep my mouth shut and let her play and have fun.

 

With those lessons in mind, I promised my son when the time came he too could play travel baseball. We have now completed two years of 14U and 15U AAU tournament ball with different programs, and I must say I am becoming a bit disenchanted with the whole pay to play structure. Kids come get their hitting lessons at the cage every week and make the A team whether or not they belong because it pays the bills for the program.

 

I recently had a wake up call at a fall Showcase tryout. My son was never clocked on radar before. His fastball and exit speeds both topped out at 81. This is an incoming sophomore, not yet 16, who just picked up the ball and glove for the first time after two weeks of rest since his last summer tourney. We did not expect to make the program. We were just doing it for the tryout experience and figured it would be too much with the upcoming football season.

 

Then I saw the Legion game on ESPNU and the pitching speeds mentioned above. 80, 81, some in the 84-85 range. It is dawning on me that Legion ball and the HS level state and regional invitationals can be a serious legitimate alternative to some of these big money programs.

 

Now that I realized my son may have some legitimate skills worthy of development, I am really feeling some obligation to 1) keep him healthy and avoid the injuries as discussed above, 2) Finding him a good off season workout that will help get stronger and stay sharp, and 3) Finding good programs that provide exposure where you earn a spot on the team based on your talent as opposed to you ability to pay.

 

I'm not saying that Perfect Game or Under Armour are not legitimate, but they'll take anybody's money right? If I'm a college coach would I want to go hang around a tourney like that or would I rather go to one of these HS invitationals to see the top talent in the state nominated by their HS coaches?

 

If I am off base please set me straight. Like I said I am trying to learn as much as I can in a short time.

Perfect Game will of course take your money if you wish to be evaluated. Note, though, that events like the Under Armour and Perfect Game All-American Games you recently saw on TV are NOT pay-to-play events. These are hand-picked kids for these events. PG offers a service - a very valuable one in today's climate. It's funny you saw pitchers at the highest level of the American Legion process and took pitchers throwing in the high 70's and mid-80's as a sign that there are good exposure alternatives to showcase ball. In fact, I think this proves quite the opposite. For the most part, the best players aren't playing AL, which means the recruiters and scouts aren't at those games. They may show up for the big events, but I guarantee you there were more scouts/recruiters at, say, the PG WWBA championships in any given year than have cumulatively attended ALL the Regional and W/S events for American Legion if you combined the past ten years.

Frankly, at least in my part of town, Legion just hasn't marketed itself very well.  Many, many years ago (mid 80s) they were the only game in town.  Today, while there are a few Legion teams in my area, I wouldn't know how to even get ahold of them.  Compare that to all the "travel" organizations with their web sites, twitter, etc.