The whole planet except a few clueless ones knew Bonds was on something Creatine or Steriods.
A little pointer is Bonds was in the Olympics he would have been suspended and his records deleted.
Barry Bonds Career Stats
http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bondsba01.shtml
MLB player association fought drug testing tooth and nail. Rememeber how many times Steve Howe tested positive for cocaine and was suspended and re instated by the MLB player association.
Just wonder how many home runs Babe Ruth, Hank Aarron,or Willie Mays would have hit on steriods
Here's a guy who was given no access to an MLB contract and had limited rights as an American citizen and still went on to be a HOF legend. And then you have Bonds who has everything and more and is blowing it.
It's twists of fate like this that get me even more steamed thinking about the Giambis and Bonds and the rest; the have-it-alls of our era. How many kids playing ball these days would even know the name Josh Gibson?
It's twists of fate like this that get me even more steamed thinking about the Giambis and Bonds and the rest; the have-it-alls of our era. How many kids playing ball these days would even know the name Josh Gibson?
SBK, don't get me started. LOL. I agree that the majority of the blame goes to the players union. They don't care about anything other than larger contracts for their members. But the owners! Have allowed all this to go on through, negotiation. Come on people, the owners have given away the game to the players, and now their union is the most powerful in the nation. Next time there are negotiations, when the contract is up, don't make concessions, let them walk out, and call up all the prospects and lets play ball with players that are still hungry, and put on a great show. The players today, as a general rule (not all of them)have no respect for the game, could care less about the fans, and give nothing back to the game. I don't want to generalize, not all of them are this way, but alot are. I hope Bonds feels the pain of what he has done to the game, I certainly don't think he is a stand up guy, who will appologize, and stop using. Not a chance of that. He could care less what people think of him, he doesn't like reporters, fans, or even his teammates. Lets see him hit 73 homers when he's not on the juice...er creme. sorry, just my opinion.
quote:
Originally posted by hokieone:
First, I plead guilty to possessing a law degree. (There goes what little remains of my reputation....)
Dang, and I use to respect you
Barry Bonds is the best hitter in the history of the game.
I've followed his career since his days at Arizona State. I remember his dad, Bobby, from his days with the Giants, too.
I don't care what he did or didn't do off of the field.
Try hitting a major league baseball/fastball or slider and tell me that is something that is easy to do. Not over the fence...just hit the darn thing successfully!!!!!
200 walks a season convinces me that he's the BEST OF ALL TIME...WHAT DOES HE HAVE? 7 MVP awards.
You go, BARRY.
It's a racial thing amongst many of his naysayers, too! Where is Jetstream Jessie when you need him?
----
And now the Cubbies fans want to run Sammycork out of Chicago...before the info comes out about Sammy and his forearms, etc....and the Cubbies get the bad publicity.
I've followed his career since his days at Arizona State. I remember his dad, Bobby, from his days with the Giants, too.
I don't care what he did or didn't do off of the field.
Try hitting a major league baseball/fastball or slider and tell me that is something that is easy to do. Not over the fence...just hit the darn thing successfully!!!!!
200 walks a season convinces me that he's the BEST OF ALL TIME...WHAT DOES HE HAVE? 7 MVP awards.
You go, BARRY.
It's a racial thing amongst many of his naysayers, too! Where is Jetstream Jessie when you need him?
----
And now the Cubbies fans want to run Sammycork out of Chicago...before the info comes out about Sammy and his forearms, etc....and the Cubbies get the bad publicity.
Like it or not, if you cheat and get caught you have to pay the price. But really, in the end you only cheat yourself.
He will now always be remembered as the best hitter that cheated and got caught. The sad part is, it did not have to be that way.
CV
He will now always be remembered as the best hitter that cheated and got caught. The sad part is, it did not have to be that way.
CV
quote:
Originally posted by BeenthereIL:
Barry Bonds is the best hitter in the history of the game.
I've followed his career since his days at Arizona State. I remember his dad, Bobby, from his days with the Giants, too.
I don't care what he did or didn't do off of the field.
Try hitting a major league baseball/fastball or slider and tell me that is something that is easy to do. Not over the fence...just hit the darn thing successfully!!!!!
200 walks a season convinces me that he's the BEST OF ALL TIME...WHAT DOES HE HAVE? 7 MVP awards.
You go, BARRY.
It's a racial thing amongst many of his naysayers, too! Where is Jetstream Jessie when you need him?
----
And now the Cubbies fans want to run Sammycork out of Chicago...before the info comes out about Sammy and his forearms, etc....and the Cubbies get the bad publicity.
Playing the race card? I'm getting kinda sick of the race card. Giambi is in just as deep as Bonds.
The four guys who have taken steroids that we know of each won the MVP award. Canseco has had serious prblems with his health and the law, Caminiti is dead, Giambi has had health problems (parasites and a tumor).......Bonds is the only one who has not gotten sick yet. Three out of four is not the type of odds that I would bet against.
I wonder how many home runs a fine hitter like John Olerud would have hit if he took steroids? I guess he was satisfied making $60 million and did not need $100 million to feed his family. He is the type of guy that I hope kids emulate, not the other idiots.
I wonder how many home runs a fine hitter like John Olerud would have hit if he took steroids? I guess he was satisfied making $60 million and did not need $100 million to feed his family. He is the type of guy that I hope kids emulate, not the other idiots.
'It's a racial thing' That is such a load of ****! HE TESTIFIED THAT HE USED! His records should not stand. As far as the Hall of fame--if he gets in then they better let Rose in while they are at it! At least he didn't cheat on the field.
Maybe they can vote Bonds & Rose in at the same time. Kind of a "Free Get Out Of Jail" vote day. 
Johnnie..."HE TESTIFIED THAT HE USED!"
Doesn't mean anything unless he testified that he used something knowing it was either banned or illegal or whatever.
I WOULD BE MORE CONCERNED THAN ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT GRAND JURY TESTIMONY BEING LEAKED TO THE PRESS.
IF I WERE THE JUDGE IN THE CASE, I WOULD SUPPRESS EVERYTHING THAT THEY TRIED TO INTRODUCE AND INTRODUCED AT THE GRAND JURY HEARINGS.
THE LOCAL PROSECUTOR, IF HE HAD ANY B...S, WOULD ASK THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE TO ORDER AN INVESTIGATION AND THEN PROSECUTE THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LEAK.
Who really cares about some mopes use/non-use of steriods when such gross violation of fundamental due process is involved?
Doesn't mean anything unless he testified that he used something knowing it was either banned or illegal or whatever.
I WOULD BE MORE CONCERNED THAN ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT GRAND JURY TESTIMONY BEING LEAKED TO THE PRESS.
IF I WERE THE JUDGE IN THE CASE, I WOULD SUPPRESS EVERYTHING THAT THEY TRIED TO INTRODUCE AND INTRODUCED AT THE GRAND JURY HEARINGS.
THE LOCAL PROSECUTOR, IF HE HAD ANY B...S, WOULD ASK THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE TO ORDER AN INVESTIGATION AND THEN PROSECUTE THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LEAK.
Who really cares about some mopes use/non-use of steriods when such gross violation of fundamental due process is involved?
BT - because we're talking about baseball and not due process. The leaks are egregious - but in this conversation we're disgusted by Bonds.
Some might be amused by this artistic interpretation of the Bonds steroid scandal. Dirt Dogs Bonds sketch
Some might be amused by this artistic interpretation of the Bonds steroid scandal. Dirt Dogs Bonds sketch
Another quote from the Dirtdogs site:
More than 50% of the players are using steroids, and 80% of them are using stimulants before games....
A couple years ago, I was wondering out loud here, WHY all the MLB teams lose so many players to nagging injuries that keep them out of the lineup off and on throughout the season. Afterall, we are supposed to have all this great wisdom on strength and conditioning. Why does it happen so frequently???
Maybe these suggested numbers are correct and
can explain why a very large number of players cannot remain healthy?
More than 50% of the players are using steroids, and 80% of them are using stimulants before games....
A couple years ago, I was wondering out loud here, WHY all the MLB teams lose so many players to nagging injuries that keep them out of the lineup off and on throughout the season. Afterall, we are supposed to have all this great wisdom on strength and conditioning. Why does it happen so frequently???
Maybe these suggested numbers are correct and
can explain why a very large number of players cannot remain healthy?
You guys should read what Savannah has to say in the "I used steroids in the '80's thread".
As I see it :
01--there are no true facts--it is all from the SF Chronicle and info that was not supposed to be released, if in fact the infor is correct and valid.
02-- heard a lawyer last night say there is nothing here yet--the grand jury is not a trial --they are seeing if there is enough evidence for a crime
03-- Marion Jones has been tested over and over and never a trace has been found--what does that say for Conte
04-- Is Conte a reliable source ?--you want your son convicted on what this man says?
05-- has anyone ever seen the players inject, digest or rub on an illegal substance.
06--to further indicate the way people think one poster above puts steroids and creatine together as illegal substances-- creatine is not illegal--you may not like it but it is sold over the counter
I am not arguing yes or no for Bonds or any of the others--I am just saying there is no HARD PROOF--let them be innocent until proven guilty
Been There hits the nail on the head---
Hey a lot of the world thought and still does that OF was guility of the accused crime-- but they could not prove it-- the goes here--until proven gulity he is,in my eyes, INNOCENT
People tell me to get a GRIP !!!!!! One poster even tells me that Bonds used steroids and I should,understand it-- maybe he did--maybe he didn't--I have no proof either way so how can I say if he did or didn't-- I think you all read the same things I do so how can you say he did or didn't?
Isn't that what our country is all about ???
Innocent until proven guilty !!!!
01--there are no true facts--it is all from the SF Chronicle and info that was not supposed to be released, if in fact the infor is correct and valid.
02-- heard a lawyer last night say there is nothing here yet--the grand jury is not a trial --they are seeing if there is enough evidence for a crime
03-- Marion Jones has been tested over and over and never a trace has been found--what does that say for Conte
04-- Is Conte a reliable source ?--you want your son convicted on what this man says?
05-- has anyone ever seen the players inject, digest or rub on an illegal substance.
06--to further indicate the way people think one poster above puts steroids and creatine together as illegal substances-- creatine is not illegal--you may not like it but it is sold over the counter
I am not arguing yes or no for Bonds or any of the others--I am just saying there is no HARD PROOF--let them be innocent until proven guilty
Been There hits the nail on the head---
Hey a lot of the world thought and still does that OF was guility of the accused crime-- but they could not prove it-- the goes here--until proven gulity he is,in my eyes, INNOCENT
People tell me to get a GRIP !!!!!! One poster even tells me that Bonds used steroids and I should,understand it-- maybe he did--maybe he didn't--I have no proof either way so how can I say if he did or didn't-- I think you all read the same things I do so how can you say he did or didn't?
Isn't that what our country is all about ???
Innocent until proven guilty !!!!
I have read Savannah's post. I remain unconvinced & unimpressed. Those same steroids used by a young man in Plano created chemical changes in his brain and body that eventually led him to commit suicide.
Steroid are dangerous. Steroids are wrong. Athletes that use steroids are cheating the game the play, the game's fans, their teammates, and their opponents.
Steroid are dangerous. Steroids are wrong. Athletes that use steroids are cheating the game the play, the game's fans, their teammates, and their opponents.
I will wait until the smoke clears before forming an opinion. However here are some interesting stats to ponder, involving two great players.
Comparing Bonds and his Godfather Willie Mays
5 year total starting at age 35 through 39
Barry Bonds 258 Home Runs
Willie Mays 123 Home Runs
Barry Bonds .341 Batting Ave.
Willie Mays .288 Batting Ave.
Note: Bonds won 4 MVP awards during this span.
Career Stats before age 35
Barry Bonds 445 Home Runs
Willie Mays 516 Home Runs
Barry Bonds .280 Batting Ave.
Willie Mays .312 Batting Ave.
Note: Mays home parks were among the very toughest to hit HRs. (polo Grounds, Candlestick)
Career Totals
Barry Bonds 703 Home Runs
Willie Mays 660 Home Runs
Barry Bonds .300 Batting Ave.
Willie Mays .302 Batting Ave.
Note: Mays missed over a year and a half serving in the arm forces.
Comparing Bonds and his Godfather Willie Mays
5 year total starting at age 35 through 39
Barry Bonds 258 Home Runs
Willie Mays 123 Home Runs
Barry Bonds .341 Batting Ave.
Willie Mays .288 Batting Ave.
Note: Bonds won 4 MVP awards during this span.
Career Stats before age 35
Barry Bonds 445 Home Runs
Willie Mays 516 Home Runs
Barry Bonds .280 Batting Ave.
Willie Mays .312 Batting Ave.
Note: Mays home parks were among the very toughest to hit HRs. (polo Grounds, Candlestick)
Career Totals
Barry Bonds 703 Home Runs
Willie Mays 660 Home Runs
Barry Bonds .300 Batting Ave.
Willie Mays .302 Batting Ave.
Note: Mays missed over a year and a half serving in the arm forces.
TR - may I conjecture that you are among the people in this country that is parsing through the meaning of the word 'is'?
Leaked testimony from the grand jury hearing is what it is. Questions & answers delivered under an oath sworn to tell the truth. I, and most educated listeners , can disapprove of the grand jury leak while still accept that the report is most likely to be accurate.
It says that Conte is very good at his job. None of the accused baseball players were caught either. They have admitted under oath to having used the same substances that Conte says Jones was using.
In sworn testimony Bonds admitted using this stuff openly in the clubhouse in front of his teammates
If you are maintaining a position that none of these reports are true because the source of the information is from an insider leak of the grand jury processings, then you are being ridiculously naive.
quote:
01--there are no true facts--it is all from the SF Chronicle and info that was not supposed to be released, if in fact the infor is correct and valid.
Leaked testimony from the grand jury hearing is what it is. Questions & answers delivered under an oath sworn to tell the truth. I, and most educated listeners , can disapprove of the grand jury leak while still accept that the report is most likely to be accurate.
quote:
03-- Marion Jones has been tested over and over and never a trace has been found--what does that say for Conte
It says that Conte is very good at his job. None of the accused baseball players were caught either. They have admitted under oath to having used the same substances that Conte says Jones was using.
quote:
05-- has anyone ever seen the players inject, digest or rub on an illegal substance.
In sworn testimony Bonds admitted using this stuff openly in the clubhouse in front of his teammates
If you are maintaining a position that none of these reports are true because the source of the information is from an insider leak of the grand jury processings, then you are being ridiculously naive.
"I didn't know they were steroids"
Bonds hr totals have been
16
25
24
19
33
25
34
46
37
33
42
40
37
34
49
73
I'll stop there.... Pass the juice please.
Bonds hr totals have been
16
25
24
19
33
25
34
46
37
33
42
40
37
34
49
73
I'll stop there.... Pass the juice please.
dbg
Drop the naive BS and the parse BS --it won't work on me--
Go back and read what I said-- I am not saying he did or he didn't--All I say is do not convict a man before you can prove without a doubt that he did use them
In todays reports it comes out that the so called creme and salve were used before they were made illegal by MLB---no how do you punish Bonds if in fact he knew-- the materials were legal in MLB at the time, or so the Chronicle report says.
And I ask again--would you want your son being "convicted and hung" like this on the basis of what a newspaper says.
And trust me it cna happen to your son in college
How come no other paper has any of this info ?
It is still all conjecture fostered by a headline grabbing newspaper known for for this sort of journalism !!
Drop the naive BS and the parse BS --it won't work on me--
Go back and read what I said-- I am not saying he did or he didn't--All I say is do not convict a man before you can prove without a doubt that he did use them
In todays reports it comes out that the so called creme and salve were used before they were made illegal by MLB---no how do you punish Bonds if in fact he knew-- the materials were legal in MLB at the time, or so the Chronicle report says.
And I ask again--would you want your son being "convicted and hung" like this on the basis of what a newspaper says.
And trust me it cna happen to your son in college
How come no other paper has any of this info ?
It is still all conjecture fostered by a headline grabbing newspaper known for for this sort of journalism !!
Beenthere, you disappoint me . You don't care if Bonds is doing illegal supplements, because he's "the best"?
Put the shoe on the other foot. You have a son playing college ball at this time, and another one that played at Miss. State. If they were All-Americans, and #1 draft choices, would it still be hunky dorey with you if they were juicing up in order to help accomplish those honors?
If they were one of the best players in the history of MLB, would you smile and brush off the fact that they use illegal substances to maintain themselves?
And as for the race card... forget it. It has no place here, and you should apologize for using it in the first place.
Put the shoe on the other foot. You have a son playing college ball at this time, and another one that played at Miss. State. If they were All-Americans, and #1 draft choices, would it still be hunky dorey with you if they were juicing up in order to help accomplish those honors?
If they were one of the best players in the history of MLB, would you smile and brush off the fact that they use illegal substances to maintain themselves?
And as for the race card... forget it. It has no place here, and you should apologize for using it in the first place.
"Beenthere, you disappoint me . You don't care if Bonds is doing illegal supplements, because he's "the best"?
Put the shoe on the other foot. You have a son playing college ball at this time, and another one that played at Miss. State. If they were All-Americans, and #1 draft choices, would it still be hunky dorey with you if they were juicing up in order to help accomplish those honors?
If they were one of the best players in the history of MLB, would you smile and brush off the fact that they use illegal substances to maintain themselves?
And as for the race card... forget it. It has no place here, and you should apologize for using it in the first place."
--
What Barry does with his body is his own business. So far, all we have is a "leak" from Grand Jury testimony. Too, the mope that owned that company has testified repeatedly that he doesn't know whether or not Barry knew that the stuff was legal or illegal. Barry has testified that he didn't know that the stuff was illegal. The guy that sold it to him was a childhood friend. Who knows the real story. Only Barry does.
Apparently, this steroid stuff has only been illegal since 1989. Baseball had no prohibition against it since ????, if ever.
If OJ wasn't guilty with the evidence against him, who would convict Barry of anything? No one. Moreover, HE HASN'T BEEN CHARGED WITH ANYTHING AND YOU'VE ALL CONVICTED HIM!
Re my sons and college baseball. No reason to reference them here.
I played in the minors for a couple of years back in the late 60's and early '70's, and I'm not so sure that most of the guys knew what they were putting in their systems. Saw tons of bottles of pills of one sort or another.
I don't have to apologize for saying anything and pulling out the race card and Barry. McGwire admitted using stuff and it was ok. No firestorm in St. Louis or the nation. He did hit 70 home runs one year, didn't he? How about Giambi...no one cares. I roomed on the road with EArl Williams, Braves Rookie of the Year in 1971...I sat at a counter at the old 5 and 10 Neisner Bros store in Florida with guys who couldn't get served a hamburger because they were black. One of them, a teammate, Udell Chambers, couldn't get served in Florida. He died for US in Nam! Don't talk to me about the "race" card...I've been there and done that.
When I came over on the boat years ago, they called me a "dumb DP" because I couldn't speak the language. Nowhere near as bad as being "black" or having an "Afro" in the '60's, '70's and '80's. Can't imagine what would have happened to me or how I might have felt if I was a young black man years ago.
Two standards here, too. Barry...and everyone else.
Put the shoe on the other foot. You have a son playing college ball at this time, and another one that played at Miss. State. If they were All-Americans, and #1 draft choices, would it still be hunky dorey with you if they were juicing up in order to help accomplish those honors?
If they were one of the best players in the history of MLB, would you smile and brush off the fact that they use illegal substances to maintain themselves?
And as for the race card... forget it. It has no place here, and you should apologize for using it in the first place."
--
What Barry does with his body is his own business. So far, all we have is a "leak" from Grand Jury testimony. Too, the mope that owned that company has testified repeatedly that he doesn't know whether or not Barry knew that the stuff was legal or illegal. Barry has testified that he didn't know that the stuff was illegal. The guy that sold it to him was a childhood friend. Who knows the real story. Only Barry does.
Apparently, this steroid stuff has only been illegal since 1989. Baseball had no prohibition against it since ????, if ever.
If OJ wasn't guilty with the evidence against him, who would convict Barry of anything? No one. Moreover, HE HASN'T BEEN CHARGED WITH ANYTHING AND YOU'VE ALL CONVICTED HIM!
Re my sons and college baseball. No reason to reference them here.
I played in the minors for a couple of years back in the late 60's and early '70's, and I'm not so sure that most of the guys knew what they were putting in their systems. Saw tons of bottles of pills of one sort or another.
I don't have to apologize for saying anything and pulling out the race card and Barry. McGwire admitted using stuff and it was ok. No firestorm in St. Louis or the nation. He did hit 70 home runs one year, didn't he? How about Giambi...no one cares. I roomed on the road with EArl Williams, Braves Rookie of the Year in 1971...I sat at a counter at the old 5 and 10 Neisner Bros store in Florida with guys who couldn't get served a hamburger because they were black. One of them, a teammate, Udell Chambers, couldn't get served in Florida. He died for US in Nam! Don't talk to me about the "race" card...I've been there and done that.
When I came over on the boat years ago, they called me a "dumb DP" because I couldn't speak the language. Nowhere near as bad as being "black" or having an "Afro" in the '60's, '70's and '80's. Can't imagine what would have happened to me or how I might have felt if I was a young black man years ago.
Two standards here, too. Barry...and everyone else.
No of course not... I couldn't possibly be because he owns ridiculous records and is looking to break the most respected record of all. 
Its a repeat post - I apologize in advance - but I was too lazy to type again.
Barry will do whatever Barry wants to do - just like Barry has always done.
If Barry wants to suck down a gallon of liquid roids tomorrow - he will do it. Whether any of us - including MLB - like it or not.
If he wants to deny it - he will.
Barry is Barry - and we live in a Barry world.
Barry knows this - Barry has alot of money and alot of lawyers - and Barry aint changing.
The fact of the matter is MLB does not have a drug testing policy of any relevance.
I actually wish Barry would hit 400 home runs one season - then suck down 600 hot dogs in one sitting - and then turn green like the Hulk and triple jump right out of the stadium. LOL
Barry will do whatever Barry wants to do - just like Barry has always done.
If Barry wants to suck down a gallon of liquid roids tomorrow - he will do it. Whether any of us - including MLB - like it or not.
If he wants to deny it - he will.
Barry is Barry - and we live in a Barry world.
Barry knows this - Barry has alot of money and alot of lawyers - and Barry aint changing.
The fact of the matter is MLB does not have a drug testing policy of any relevance.
I actually wish Barry would hit 400 home runs one season - then suck down 600 hot dogs in one sitting - and then turn green like the Hulk and triple jump right out of the stadium. LOL
With all due respect, I think the "race card" is way way off base. Good grief, the record Bonds is chasing is that of Mr. Aaron, and I personally would take Mr. Mays in his prime over BB any day. "Race card"? No way. BB's surly personality doesn't help him, and he'd be perceived as less than personable in any color, but this is about taking drugs and then lying about it, over and over and over.
(p.s. Some excellent columns in today's Washington Post sports section; sorry, my computer expertise doesn't include being able to link them here. Mr. Wilbon advocates asterik's besides every Bonds' record.)
If Beenthere ever in his life was mistreated, that's just wrong, but that has nothing to do with whether or not race is a factor with Bonds. Mr. Rose seems to generate equally emotional outrages for his gambling in baseball. No race card here. Just my humble opinion.
(p.s. Some excellent columns in today's Washington Post sports section; sorry, my computer expertise doesn't include being able to link them here. Mr. Wilbon advocates asterik's besides every Bonds' record.)
If Beenthere ever in his life was mistreated, that's just wrong, but that has nothing to do with whether or not race is a factor with Bonds. Mr. Rose seems to generate equally emotional outrages for his gambling in baseball. No race card here. Just my humble opinion.
All the fame and money in the world cannot give a person character.
And that - IMO - is all that matters.
Barry Bonds never understood this simple life rule IMO. And I doubt he ever will.
And that - IMO - is all that matters.
Barry Bonds never understood this simple life rule IMO. And I doubt he ever will.
Before this revolation there was the speculation that bonds performance was because he used steroids.
It don't matter one bit rather he knew he was or was not taking them. The fact is that he had performed at this level because of the drugs not in spite of them.
The botom line is that He took steroids....period!
Now all his accomplishments are tainted for ever
Before he was 36 years old he never hit more then 46 dingers. Then he started taking the roids. and the reat is in the history books
If these performance enhansing drugs were legal to baseball then shame on baseball for allowing this to cheapen the sport!
It don't matter one bit rather he knew he was or was not taking them. The fact is that he had performed at this level because of the drugs not in spite of them.
The botom line is that He took steroids....period!
Now all his accomplishments are tainted for ever
Before he was 36 years old he never hit more then 46 dingers. Then he started taking the roids. and the reat is in the history books
If these performance enhansing drugs were legal to baseball then shame on baseball for allowing this to cheapen the sport!
The sport will not be cheapened.
Only the liars and cheats in the game are cheapened.
This spring and summer - there will be millions of people watching and playing the game of baseball. Young kids - old fat men - and evry one else in between.
The Bonds - the Roses - the Giambis - the Fehrs and the Seligs will eventually just fade away.
They think they are bigger than the game.
They are sadly mistaken.
They are just temporary stains.
Only the liars and cheats in the game are cheapened.
This spring and summer - there will be millions of people watching and playing the game of baseball. Young kids - old fat men - and evry one else in between.
The Bonds - the Roses - the Giambis - the Fehrs and the Seligs will eventually just fade away.
They think they are bigger than the game.
They are sadly mistaken.
They are just temporary stains.
I agree with "ITS"
Baseball will be baseball no matter what
The game has withstood scandals before and it will again no matter how big or small the scandal
Baseball will be baseball no matter what
The game has withstood scandals before and it will again no matter how big or small the scandal
Yes baseball will go on and hopefully continue to fill the stands and make plenty of money to pay the salary's of these cheaters and owners.
However the fact will remain, that the records were broke by cheaters. This just ain't fair to those that broke records legally before these records were broke!
TG
However the fact will remain, that the records were broke by cheaters. This just ain't fair to those that broke records legally before these records were broke!
TG
TG
That pretty much sums it up!
Anyone have an email or snail mail address for Bud Selig?
That pretty much sums it up!
Anyone have an email or snail mail address for Bud Selig?
Bonds says he didn't know what was in the ointment or the salve that he applied to his body...
Can you believe him?
I thought about it and tried to recall in my athletic career whether I had ever read a label or asked any questions about the substances that we used on our bodies to supposedly to alleviate our aches and pains...you know what, I can't think of a time in my entire career that I actually looked at a label to see what was in the stupid stuff we used.
We used to use something called "RED HOT" but never knew what was in it. Used a bunch of other stuff that the trainers gave to us to use, but to this day I couldn't tell you what was in it. But I found out it was cortisone cream. Now lets get real folks "cortisone cream" is used for acne. But I don't think that is what we are talking about here.
I thought Bonds just may be telling the truth... when you think back on your own athletic days, I bet you never read the labels either.
But then I listened very carefully to what Sheffield said when Bonds introduced him to the idea of "using" the "cream" and the "clear".
Bonds told Sheffield "don't ask" when he said he asked Bonds to tell him what was in the "cream" and the "clear". The question is, in my mind; what did Bonds know that he didn't want Sheffield to know, and was Bonds trying to hide something?
It doesn't look good and quite frankly I am devastated that the player with Bonds skills would "sell out" his reputation as a great ballplayer to attain some image base on a foundation built on falsity and deceit.
If it all turns out to be true...and it looks that way, not only should Bonds records be expunged and voided for the years that he was "using" but he should be banned from ever being voted into the Hall Of Fame.
I don't think Bonds was trying to cure his acne, or had a case of poison ivy or poison oak.
The "cream" and "clear" was not designed to cure acne, poison ivy or poison oak, it was steroids designed to give a player an illegal advantage over his competition...it's called cheating.
I cannot tell you how disappointed I am in Bonds and Giambi.
Can you believe him?
I thought about it and tried to recall in my athletic career whether I had ever read a label or asked any questions about the substances that we used on our bodies to supposedly to alleviate our aches and pains...you know what, I can't think of a time in my entire career that I actually looked at a label to see what was in the stupid stuff we used.
We used to use something called "RED HOT" but never knew what was in it. Used a bunch of other stuff that the trainers gave to us to use, but to this day I couldn't tell you what was in it. But I found out it was cortisone cream. Now lets get real folks "cortisone cream" is used for acne. But I don't think that is what we are talking about here.
I thought Bonds just may be telling the truth... when you think back on your own athletic days, I bet you never read the labels either.
But then I listened very carefully to what Sheffield said when Bonds introduced him to the idea of "using" the "cream" and the "clear".
Bonds told Sheffield "don't ask" when he said he asked Bonds to tell him what was in the "cream" and the "clear". The question is, in my mind; what did Bonds know that he didn't want Sheffield to know, and was Bonds trying to hide something?
It doesn't look good and quite frankly I am devastated that the player with Bonds skills would "sell out" his reputation as a great ballplayer to attain some image base on a foundation built on falsity and deceit.
If it all turns out to be true...and it looks that way, not only should Bonds records be expunged and voided for the years that he was "using" but he should be banned from ever being voted into the Hall Of Fame.
I don't think Bonds was trying to cure his acne, or had a case of poison ivy or poison oak.
The "cream" and "clear" was not designed to cure acne, poison ivy or poison oak, it was steroids designed to give a player an illegal advantage over his competition...it's called cheating.
I cannot tell you how disappointed I am in Bonds and Giambi.
Anabolic steroids have been illegal at least since 2001 unless prescribed and dispensed by licensed physicians. That's for all people in the US, not just ballplayers.
Of course, THG wasn't known at that time, and was just added to the list of banned substances in March. But it's not necessary that a chemical composition be specifically banned to justify punishment for its use, it just has to be chemically similar to one explicitly stated as banned. If the use of the substance in question is for the same ends as one on the banned list and it can be shown that the reason for choosing the substance in question was specifically to circumvent detection, there are legal precedents for punishment. (Kelli White was banned from competing for two years and from the summer's Olympic Games and stripped of her 2003 World Champion gold medals and all previous medals dating back to 2000, despite no test even existing for THG until 2003; Calvin Harrison was punished for using modafinil despite his lawyer's argument that, because modafinil was not specifically named on the banned substance list in 2003, Harrison had no way of knowing it was prohibited. The USADA's response was that modafinil was prohibited in 2003 because it was chemically related to stimulants named on the list of banned substances.)
The whole reason for developing THG was to circumvent steroid testing. That fact, alone, makes THG banned by proxy. Legally speaking, if Bonds used THG in 2001, the courts and/or MLB could easily go back and impose 2001 level punishment on Bonds for the use, as if it was a banned substance.
And the "I didn't know" line means he's either lying or overwhelming stupid. Would any of us "understand" if our sons used a substance given to them by a friend or a coach that they were told would improve their performance without asking questions (that involved the word 'steroids') and getting some outside advice?
Whatever the parents here experiences were in the past, illegal substances are very much in the news NOW, and athletes are aware of their existence, possible side-effects, risks, and illegalities.
Of course, THG wasn't known at that time, and was just added to the list of banned substances in March. But it's not necessary that a chemical composition be specifically banned to justify punishment for its use, it just has to be chemically similar to one explicitly stated as banned. If the use of the substance in question is for the same ends as one on the banned list and it can be shown that the reason for choosing the substance in question was specifically to circumvent detection, there are legal precedents for punishment. (Kelli White was banned from competing for two years and from the summer's Olympic Games and stripped of her 2003 World Champion gold medals and all previous medals dating back to 2000, despite no test even existing for THG until 2003; Calvin Harrison was punished for using modafinil despite his lawyer's argument that, because modafinil was not specifically named on the banned substance list in 2003, Harrison had no way of knowing it was prohibited. The USADA's response was that modafinil was prohibited in 2003 because it was chemically related to stimulants named on the list of banned substances.)
The whole reason for developing THG was to circumvent steroid testing. That fact, alone, makes THG banned by proxy. Legally speaking, if Bonds used THG in 2001, the courts and/or MLB could easily go back and impose 2001 level punishment on Bonds for the use, as if it was a banned substance.
And the "I didn't know" line means he's either lying or overwhelming stupid. Would any of us "understand" if our sons used a substance given to them by a friend or a coach that they were told would improve their performance without asking questions (that involved the word 'steroids') and getting some outside advice?
Whatever the parents here experiences were in the past, illegal substances are very much in the news NOW, and athletes are aware of their existence, possible side-effects, risks, and illegalities.
Gotta ask BT & TR how the view is down there with their heads stuck in the sand? Even Hank Aaron is voicing his disappointment in all this.
"Once a supporter and admirer of Barry Bonds, all-time homerun king Hank Aaron is now disturbed to hear Bonds' statements to a grand jury investigating a California lab for illegal steroids distribution, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported Sunday."
ESPN
"Once a supporter and admirer of Barry Bonds, all-time homerun king Hank Aaron is now disturbed to hear Bonds' statements to a grand jury investigating a California lab for illegal steroids distribution, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported Sunday."
ESPN
Had a great answer wiped out by the cyberspace demons....
Will be back posting later tonight or tomorrow.
Will be back posting later tonight or tomorrow.
Beenthere, if you're looking for sympathy as a white guy who came to this country not knowing English, you're not going to get it here. You're one of millions that have done it.
As for your experiences back in the '60's, all I can say is, it's a different time. It's regrettable that this country went through a period when a guy like Earl Williams couldn't get a burger at a luncheon counter. Hope you enjoyed yours. I don't think Earl would have any problem nowadays.
That's all interesting, but it has absolutely NOTHING to do with you flinging out the race card and saying that people are out to get Barry because of his skin color.
Personally, I'm disappointed in any player that resorts to steroids to get better. That goes for Bonds, Giambi, Sheffield, Canseco, Mcqwire, or anyone else involved with it, regardless of skin color. Have I left any nationality out? Ok, if Ichiro does it, then he lets me down too.
I'm not surprised that you want to leave your kids out of the discussion.... I would too. You don't care what Bonds or the others take, but I have a funny feeling you'd have different thoughts if your kid was doing it.
Now the Yankees want to pull the plug on Giambi, and cancel the remainder of his $82 million contract. Must be because he now looks like a stock clerk instead of a HR hitter because he's off the juice. These are the same "moral Yankees" that kept bringing Steve Howe and Darryl Strawberry back. Of course, they had NO IDEA that he was doing the stuff. I could tell by looking at him.
I hope that they do cancel his contract... maybe he'll get mad and start naming names, and get some more rats running.
By the way, Barry was interviewed several times SINCE his Grand Jury testimony, and not only denied taking steroids, but also said that there was absolutely no way that he could have accidentally taken them, or taken them without knowing what he was using. His body is a temple.
And people think that Pete Rose is a pathological liar? This is going to be fun.
As for your experiences back in the '60's, all I can say is, it's a different time. It's regrettable that this country went through a period when a guy like Earl Williams couldn't get a burger at a luncheon counter. Hope you enjoyed yours. I don't think Earl would have any problem nowadays.
That's all interesting, but it has absolutely NOTHING to do with you flinging out the race card and saying that people are out to get Barry because of his skin color.
Personally, I'm disappointed in any player that resorts to steroids to get better. That goes for Bonds, Giambi, Sheffield, Canseco, Mcqwire, or anyone else involved with it, regardless of skin color. Have I left any nationality out? Ok, if Ichiro does it, then he lets me down too.
I'm not surprised that you want to leave your kids out of the discussion.... I would too. You don't care what Bonds or the others take, but I have a funny feeling you'd have different thoughts if your kid was doing it.
Now the Yankees want to pull the plug on Giambi, and cancel the remainder of his $82 million contract. Must be because he now looks like a stock clerk instead of a HR hitter because he's off the juice. These are the same "moral Yankees" that kept bringing Steve Howe and Darryl Strawberry back. Of course, they had NO IDEA that he was doing the stuff. I could tell by looking at him.
I hope that they do cancel his contract... maybe he'll get mad and start naming names, and get some more rats running.
By the way, Barry was interviewed several times SINCE his Grand Jury testimony, and not only denied taking steroids, but also said that there was absolutely no way that he could have accidentally taken them, or taken them without knowing what he was using. His body is a temple.
And people think that Pete Rose is a pathological liar? This is going to be fun.
When you look at these guys that went off the "juice" you can see a rather significant decrease in body mass.
Why is it that Bonds is not shrinking? I'm not suggesting that he did or didn't take steroids, but I do wonder why, if he was taking them, he hasn't wilted away like most of the guys that have admitted use. Does anyone have any explanation for this?
My understanding is that he has been tested recently and has agreed to be tested at any time... His swing looks as powerful as ever so I am curious because this seems like a contradiction.
Why is it that Bonds is not shrinking? I'm not suggesting that he did or didn't take steroids, but I do wonder why, if he was taking them, he hasn't wilted away like most of the guys that have admitted use. Does anyone have any explanation for this?
My understanding is that he has been tested recently and has agreed to be tested at any time... His swing looks as powerful as ever so I am curious because this seems like a contradiction.
I saw Bagwell in an interview this summer and he was questioned as to why he had lost weight and "slimmed down"--his answer was interesting--- #1 he is older--# 2 both his shoulders get shot up regularly so that he can play-- the shoulder condition now keep him from lifting as he used to thus the change in his body appearance
Don't know if this is the answer but it sounds logical to me, having had both my shoulders operated on, and knowing the immobility and pain I had before the surgery--
Just another thought
Don't know if this is the answer but it sounds logical to me, having had both my shoulders operated on, and knowing the immobility and pain I had before the surgery--
Just another thought
A guy takes a couple of days off from the website and comes back and reads that someone thinks people are picking on Barry cause he’s black and couple others saying they don’t care what someone like Barry does because he’s good.
Wow! Those sure are some well though out positions.
As far as a couple people here who still do not believe Bonds has been steroid induced, I can only that I have never seen him take steroids and I doubt if anyone else on this board has seen him take steroids either. However Barry has admitted that he has taken Steroids so I think we should take him at his word. From here on out can we all at least agree that Barry has taken steroids?
Wow! Those sure are some well though out positions.
As far as a couple people here who still do not believe Bonds has been steroid induced, I can only that I have never seen him take steroids and I doubt if anyone else on this board has seen him take steroids either. However Barry has admitted that he has taken Steroids so I think we should take him at his word. From here on out can we all at least agree that Barry has taken steroids?