"However Barry has admitted that he has taken Steroids so I think we should take him at his word. From here on out can we all at least agree that Barry has taken steroids?"
SBK...When and where did he admit this, please?
Moreover, Selig has said that he won't discipline anyone for anything done in the past.
Deal with it.
John are you a defense lawyer?
Beenthere,
Are you saying that the reports of Bonds admitting taking the substances containing steroids in his grand jury testimony are incorrect?
When did Selig say he wouldn’t discipline anyone for things done in the past? I don’t think Pete Rose got that memo either.
You say I should deal with it but there are a lot of people including myself that think the game is too important to pretend that nothing happened. Did you ever hear that, “Cheaters never win”, well this is a chance to keep that statement intact?
Beenthere, should we take the same approach you suggest here with the next controversy regarding the integrity of the game, whatever it may be? Or should we hold people accountable no matter their ability, popularity or even their skin color?
Are you saying that the reports of Bonds admitting taking the substances containing steroids in his grand jury testimony are incorrect?
When did Selig say he wouldn’t discipline anyone for things done in the past? I don’t think Pete Rose got that memo either.
You say I should deal with it but there are a lot of people including myself that think the game is too important to pretend that nothing happened. Did you ever hear that, “Cheaters never win”, well this is a chance to keep that statement intact?
Beenthere, should we take the same approach you suggest here with the next controversy regarding the integrity of the game, whatever it may be? Or should we hold people accountable no matter their ability, popularity or even their skin color?
Is there a test yet for the substances Balco's pushing?
If this were a non-baseball related site, I'd understand the attitude that what a ballplayer takes is immaterial as it's all entertainment and hr hitters are fun to watch.
But this is the game that we and our sons love. Our sons are playing it. And if the Biggest Names in the game are juiced and that's just fine and dandy, how long will it be before they're tempted and maybe even succumb? My son was offered 'roids in the weight room as a freshman in hs. He's in a conference where an entire team has no necks and bad skin. He was recruited by a school where juice WAS the training table, and that was the major factor in his turning them down. All this temptation in front of a kid who is constantly being told he's too slight to be a catcher.
Your sons would have no trouble getting 'roids. Watch the message you're sending them when you talk about Bonds.
If this were a non-baseball related site, I'd understand the attitude that what a ballplayer takes is immaterial as it's all entertainment and hr hitters are fun to watch.
But this is the game that we and our sons love. Our sons are playing it. And if the Biggest Names in the game are juiced and that's just fine and dandy, how long will it be before they're tempted and maybe even succumb? My son was offered 'roids in the weight room as a freshman in hs. He's in a conference where an entire team has no necks and bad skin. He was recruited by a school where juice WAS the training table, and that was the major factor in his turning them down. All this temptation in front of a kid who is constantly being told he's too slight to be a catcher.
Your sons would have no trouble getting 'roids. Watch the message you're sending them when you talk about Bonds.
Orlando,
I understand what you are saying - and it is great advice - especially for younger players and parents IMO.
I always used BARRY as an example for both my sons as to what you should never be. They actually got sick of me telling them. But they understood. Character - respect for others - truthfullness. All important traits of which BARRY has none. Zero.
At least he has been consistent for the last 15 years LOL.
BARRY served his purpose for me - thats for sure.
There is value in negative role models as well.
It just depends on how you use them IMO.
I understand what you are saying - and it is great advice - especially for younger players and parents IMO.
I always used BARRY as an example for both my sons as to what you should never be. They actually got sick of me telling them. But they understood. Character - respect for others - truthfullness. All important traits of which BARRY has none. Zero.
At least he has been consistent for the last 15 years LOL.
BARRY served his purpose for me - thats for sure.
There is value in negative role models as well.
It just depends on how you use them IMO.
I saw a report today wherein it stated that the players in all probability will not be punished due to the fact that all the "so called admissions" were for trangressions prior to the advent of any policy in MLB. In fact the growth hormone that has been noted is not yet on the MLB banned list so the article states.
Also , I agree with Been---Bonds has never admitted to knowlingly used steroids or any other illegal substance not has Sheffield from what I have seen.
Also , I agree with Been---Bonds has never admitted to knowlingly used steroids or any other illegal substance not has Sheffield from what I have seen.
Knowingly did it... is that the key?
All this is about is that at least Sheffield, Giambi, the late Ken Caminitti and to some extent Big Mac, were stand up about this.
But barry
Today bonds' aunt was quoted as stating that little barry was unknowingly "secretly doped" by his trainer.
...and, besides, these guys needed a rule to tell them this isn't the proper thing to do
.
BTW, there has been a ban in place, it's just that the present punishment is a joke.
All this is about is that at least Sheffield, Giambi, the late Ken Caminitti and to some extent Big Mac, were stand up about this.
But barry
Today bonds' aunt was quoted as stating that little barry was unknowingly "secretly doped" by his trainer.
...and, besides, these guys needed a rule to tell them this isn't the proper thing to do
. BTW, there has been a ban in place, it's just that the present punishment is a joke.
The Balco's of the world will continue to stay a step ahead of MLB.
The mere existence (and power) of the players union and their lawyers guarantees this.
You create the new designer drugs - you use them - MLB then bans them - and you do it all over again.
Smart lawyers, the MLB union and players highly motivated and compensated to cheat - plus - a brain dead commissioner. Its a slam dunk.
We should just get used to it - enjoy the games - and take the good with the bad as we see it.
There are many great role models to use for your kids - and many POS like BARRY to use as well.
Everything has a purpose IMO - and the game is still great. Thats one thing that will never change IMO.
The mere existence (and power) of the players union and their lawyers guarantees this.
You create the new designer drugs - you use them - MLB then bans them - and you do it all over again.
Smart lawyers, the MLB union and players highly motivated and compensated to cheat - plus - a brain dead commissioner. Its a slam dunk.
We should just get used to it - enjoy the games - and take the good with the bad as we see it.
There are many great role models to use for your kids - and many POS like BARRY to use as well.
Everything has a purpose IMO - and the game is still great. Thats one thing that will never change IMO.
We can debate this topic ad infinitum but the bottom line is that MLB and the Players Union need to have a program in place that the PUBLIC is aware of and can make the public happy.
It truly makes for heated discussion and always will and even the regulations are in place players will still try to circumvent the regulations.
By the way Hey Batter it is possible to not beware of what one uses in a drug or what the side effects can be--thus yes KNOWINGLY is a key word here--Sheffield claims he did not know all the ingredients in the creme /salve that he used.
Are you aware that many medical prescriptions which your doctor gives you carry ingredients that would cause you and I to fail most of the Olympic drugs tests as well as many others, even in the work place ? The manufacturers do not list all the ingredients
I am not defending the players--all I am saying is that to date nothing has been proven and that YES the word KNOWINGLY could very well be key here.
Just my thoughts
It truly makes for heated discussion and always will and even the regulations are in place players will still try to circumvent the regulations.
By the way Hey Batter it is possible to not beware of what one uses in a drug or what the side effects can be--thus yes KNOWINGLY is a key word here--Sheffield claims he did not know all the ingredients in the creme /salve that he used.
Are you aware that many medical prescriptions which your doctor gives you carry ingredients that would cause you and I to fail most of the Olympic drugs tests as well as many others, even in the work place ? The manufacturers do not list all the ingredients
I am not defending the players--all I am saying is that to date nothing has been proven and that YES the word KNOWINGLY could very well be key here.
Just my thoughts
TR- I understand the concept and I understand your points and most certainly respect you and your opinion and the fact that the "jury isn't in yet.
But I also know that I've not seen it for myself, but I have a pretty strong belief that the world is round. I've seen barry bonds and enough of this situation and of life in general that I believe that he purposely took drugs to enhance himself and knew what they were.
I will also acknowledge that having had the distinct displeasure of meeting barry bonds and having had other opportunities to observe his behavior, I find him to be a vile human being and I will readily admit to a bias in believing the absolute worst about him.
But I also know that I've not seen it for myself, but I have a pretty strong belief that the world is round. I've seen barry bonds and enough of this situation and of life in general that I believe that he purposely took drugs to enhance himself and knew what they were.
I will also acknowledge that having had the distinct displeasure of meeting barry bonds and having had other opportunities to observe his behavior, I find him to be a vile human being and I will readily admit to a bias in believing the absolute worst about him.
HeyBatter
Being a "vile human being" in your eyes does not make the man guilty !!!!
You can believe what you want-- I also believe what I want--but until he is proven guilty the man is innocent
Being a "vile human being" in your eyes does not make the man guilty !!!!
You can believe what you want-- I also believe what I want--but until he is proven guilty the man is innocent
quote:
You can believe what you want-- I also believe what I want--but until he is proven guilty the man is innocent
You believe he's innocent, and I believe he's guilty of doping.
End of story. I'll let you believe what you want and you let me believe what I want.
...and you both have a right to your opinions.
Is this really that BIG OF A DEAL? Just kidding...
Bonds should pay the ultimate penalty!
Bonds should pay the ultimate penalty!
Which is worse? Barry Bonds and steroids or Ricky Williams wanting to smoke "Hippie lettuce" with the Dali Lama and Lenny Kravitz? 
Let the hitters take all the steriods their bodies can handle .... then move the mound up to about 24 inches and change the backdrop in CF to white ... That ought to about do it.
When Bonds and others were using steroids, baseball didn't prohibited yet, so let forget it about and let be really hard from now on.
About Bonds, and others records, they have to stand. Steroids help, but they don't convert any player in a superstar. With or without steroids, superstars are superstars, and mediocre players still mediocres.
About Bonds, and others records, they have to stand. Steroids help, but they don't convert any player in a superstar. With or without steroids, superstars are superstars, and mediocre players still mediocres.
quote:
Originally posted by Racab:
When Bonds and others were using steroids, baseball didn't prohibited yet, so let forget it about and let be really hard from now on.
About Bonds, and others records, they have to stand. Steroids help, but they don't convert any player in a superstar. With or without steroids, superstars are superstars, and mediocre players still mediocres.
But they cheated and should be punished. Their records for a yet to be determined number of years should be disallowed. Why should Bonds be allowed to take all the records when he clearly had an unfair advantage? Would the NCAA or the olympics allow such, I don't think so.
Amazing how the Olympic superstars with ties to BALCO didn't fare very well in the most recent Olympics. Maybe steroids do convert an athlete from a star to a superstar. I believe those Olympic athletes who get caught using steroids, including those not specifically banned are stripped of their medals and their records.
Records always will be relative to the times that were set. For example, pitchers were not the same when Ruth set his record.
Saves are now easier to broke, because 30 years ago was not closers.
Carl Ripken record, never will be broken, because actual players make too much money to play for pride.
How many Pete Rose's hits were hit because the astro turf in so many parks in the 70's.?
How many HR Bonds will hit today if the pitching mount and the fences were the same that in the 70's?
Do Ricky Henderson steal so many bases in today long ball basebal?
Is it cheating use something that is legal to use in baseball? . Now that is ilegal the line have been set. Before and after steroids!.... the same that before and after shortened the fences and the pitching mount, before and after the live ball etc...
Saves are now easier to broke, because 30 years ago was not closers.
Carl Ripken record, never will be broken, because actual players make too much money to play for pride.
How many Pete Rose's hits were hit because the astro turf in so many parks in the 70's.?
How many HR Bonds will hit today if the pitching mount and the fences were the same that in the 70's?
Do Ricky Henderson steal so many bases in today long ball basebal?
Is it cheating use something that is legal to use in baseball? . Now that is ilegal the line have been set. Before and after steroids!.... the same that before and after shortened the fences and the pitching mount, before and after the live ball etc...
.... another couple items to balance it out...
In addition to raising the mound and changing to a white hitting backdrop, do the following:
1). Raise the seams on the baseball, see what a bit more movement does to the hitters.
2). Bring back the spitball/shiner, etc.
3). Allow pitchers to keep a bottle of vaseline next to the rosen bag
4). Attach an emory board to the cleat cleaner behind the mound.
After all, if you're going to let 'roids make a joke out of the game, might as well finish the job.
In addition to raising the mound and changing to a white hitting backdrop, do the following:
1). Raise the seams on the baseball, see what a bit more movement does to the hitters.
2). Bring back the spitball/shiner, etc.
3). Allow pitchers to keep a bottle of vaseline next to the rosen bag
4). Attach an emory board to the cleat cleaner behind the mound.
After all, if you're going to let 'roids make a joke out of the game, might as well finish the job.
Racab,
It is cheating to use something that is against the law. We are talking about illegal steroid use whether it was banned by baseball or not.
Records will come and go as the equipment and the players change. Nothing is likely to have as much impact on records as integrating the game did but that isn't an excuse for allowing records set by cheaters to stand.
It is cheating to use something that is against the law. We are talking about illegal steroid use whether it was banned by baseball or not.
Records will come and go as the equipment and the players change. Nothing is likely to have as much impact on records as integrating the game did but that isn't an excuse for allowing records set by cheaters to stand.
PhoenixDad,
Too complicated. Just allow L-screens and move the mound up to 46'.
Too complicated. Just allow L-screens and move the mound up to 46'.
quote:
Originally posted by CADad:
PhoenixDad,
Too complicated. Just allow L-screens and move the mound up to 46'.
Can you imagine Randy Johnson throwing from 46 feet????? Equivalent speed would be about 125 MPH ..... It would turn Greg Maddox back into a "power pitcher" .... to heck with hitting the corners, how do you like this 116 MPH Heater Barry !!!!!!!
The records have become a joke in proffessionL sports, specially major leque baseball!
It's become the steriod leaqueS.
It's become the steriod leaqueS.
Or baseball could just simply do what's right and what should have been done a long time ago.