How about this guy for a cinderella story.retires from pitching and comes back as a hitting outfielder.3 homeruns already.
Amazing talent.
I am really happy for him.
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I hope not, but I believe he will fall on some hard times.
The two on the left are spring training '07. The one on the right is current.
I see significant changes/improvements.
However, his recent game HR swings were similar to the ones on the left.
Nice clips RS. The no-stride approach seems to be working so far. He had 32 HRs with close to 100 RBIs in AAA before being promoted to da show. peace
Chameleon- The guy is in the big leagues. That swing produced 32 HR's in AAA and 3 HR's in the big leagues. This is a tremendous athlete. Who are you to make a judgement on this guy? Honestly, you have no clue what you are talking about. You have become a legend in your own mind!
Have you ever been around great athletes in your life? Have you ever worked with them on the field? You can hypothesize all you want and some people will actually buy into your spiel. That said, you are a self-made farce. You know nothing on what makes these guys tick. Stick to analyzing 12 year olds on video because that's truly all you are qualified for.
Have you ever been around great athletes in your life? Have you ever worked with them on the field? You can hypothesize all you want and some people will actually buy into your spiel. That said, you are a self-made farce. You know nothing on what makes these guys tick. Stick to analyzing 12 year olds on video because that's truly all you are qualified for.
Swings will change to a certain degree with different location and speeds,as well with breaking stuff.They will all look different and some will look downright bad if the pitch changes enough from what they expect.
He is an amazing athlete and from what I can tell,he is alos a heck of a person with a lot of heart.
He is an amazing athlete and from what I can tell,he is alos a heck of a person with a lot of heart.
quote:Originally posted by Chameleon:
I hope not, but I believe he will fall on some hard times.
The two on the left are spring training '07. The one on the right is current.
I see significant changes/improvements.
However, his recent game HR swings were similar to the ones on the left.
Nothing wrong with those swings! EVERY hitter falls on some hard times, it's what you do for a season or more that matters. Just him getting back to the bigs as an outfielder is a major accomplishment, but we may want to give him at least the rest of the season before we glorify or condemn his hitting ability. After two games he's better than most in the MLB though.
Of all the mlb players that have had success (modern day...those that I have video of)...only two consistently hit AT extension. And they were/are pretty darn good.
This is a long swing by mlb standards.
IF he has success it will not be because of these mechanics. It will be because his atletic ability can out run these mechanics.
I hope he's successful.
What is really interesting is those that posted have no clue what they are looking at.
I guess "the rest of his stats" don't support your opinion so you don't mention them. He had a very low on base percentage AND struck out WAY too much at AAA.
Wonder why.
My guess is he's "tweening". He's in the process of changing his swing...as shown by the recent bp swing...it's much different than the other two...much better...and he probably reverts back and forth between them if his cocentration level drops or on certain pitch locations. It's not easy making a change at that level.
Why don't one of you "smarties" list the differences between the recent bp swing and the spring taining swings. lol.
This is a long swing by mlb standards.
IF he has success it will not be because of these mechanics. It will be because his atletic ability can out run these mechanics.
I hope he's successful.
What is really interesting is those that posted have no clue what they are looking at.
I guess "the rest of his stats" don't support your opinion so you don't mention them. He had a very low on base percentage AND struck out WAY too much at AAA.
Wonder why.
My guess is he's "tweening". He's in the process of changing his swing...as shown by the recent bp swing...it's much different than the other two...much better...and he probably reverts back and forth between them if his cocentration level drops or on certain pitch locations. It's not easy making a change at that level.
Why don't one of you "smarties" list the differences between the recent bp swing and the spring taining swings. lol.
Well...I'll take a stab at it just to generate conversation on this quiet afternoon. The bp swings look like he is leaning over. I believe that this may have adverse results. Maybe slowing down his bat speed, as well as making him more vulnerable to certain pitches. Maybe inside? Also it appears that he is leaning back a bit too much in the bp swings, which may cause too much lift, less of a line drive swing path. My Son has been suffering from this as well hitting alot of deep fly-outs.
In the spring training clip he looks much better, not bent over. He looks more level through the shoulders which I would expect may result in a better gap to gap line drive swing.
I have heard that keeping the front foot closed may result in more leverage, more power at contact, anyone have thoughts on that?
In the spring training clip he looks much better, not bent over. He looks more level through the shoulders which I would expect may result in a better gap to gap line drive swing.
I have heard that keeping the front foot closed may result in more leverage, more power at contact, anyone have thoughts on that?
Better segmentation in the right clip....Hips are getting a running start....Better stretch....Lower body is helping more.....
Needs a better weight shift....
Needs a better weight shift....
Watch the clips and do your best to determine when he says "go".
Then compare positions at "go".
They are significantly different.
Then compare positions at "go".
They are significantly different.
Chameleon- What you don't understand is, at that level, it's not about his swing. He's athletic enough to figure it out and has proved it. Striking out or getting a hit at that level is a result of decision-making. It's all about a series of mental adjustments. The players that can figure it out are successful.
I've been fortunate to have been around great players. They are different. They all have the prerequisite mechanics. The difference in success and failure is above their shoulders. Bottom line- Unless you've been around it (on the field) you don't understand and are not able to make a cogent opinion on whether this guy will be successful or not.
I've been fortunate to have been around great players. They are different. They all have the prerequisite mechanics. The difference in success and failure is above their shoulders. Bottom line- Unless you've been around it (on the field) you don't understand and are not able to make a cogent opinion on whether this guy will be successful or not.
quote:Originally posted by ncball:
Chameleon- What you don't understand is, at that level, it's not about his swing. He's athletic enough to figure it out and has proved it. Striking out or getting a hit at that level is a result of decision-making. It's all about a series of mental adjustments. The players that can figure it out are successful.
I've been fortunate to have been around great players. They are different. They all have the prerequisite mechanics. The difference in success and failure is above their shoulders. Bottom line- Unless you've been around it (on the field) you don't understand and are not able to make a cogent opinion on whether this guy will be successful or not.
I have been around pro archery shooters and what makes them better than the rest is definately above the shoulders.
Shot a pro-am with a pro one time and we were tied with another group and a pro.They were not about to split anything,they wanted to win and both had the confidence to beat the other in a shoot off.They both toed the line and on a 35 yard shot,less than a 1/4" separated the two arrows.
While I will agree with the two above posts, that the mental side of hitting, e.g. the ability to read pitches, is probably the most important aspect of hitting at a high level, mechanics and adjustments of mechanics are significant factors as well.
You will never be the best hitter you are capable of w/o proper mechanics, regardless of your ability to stay cool under pressure and your ability to read pitches. Not all players are recruited for their bat. Certainly you would not expect that to be a determining factor for a pitcher, or former pitcher.
I rarely see what Blue Dog or Chameleon see, but I still share their interest in perfecting hitting form and mechanics.
You will never be the best hitter you are capable of w/o proper mechanics, regardless of your ability to stay cool under pressure and your ability to read pitches. Not all players are recruited for their bat. Certainly you would not expect that to be a determining factor for a pitcher, or former pitcher.
I rarely see what Blue Dog or Chameleon see, but I still share their interest in perfecting hitting form and mechanics.
quote:Originally posted by ncball:
Chameleon- What you don't understand is, at that level, it's not about his swing. He's athletic enough to figure it out and has proved it. Striking out or getting a hit at that level is a result of decision-making. It's all about a series of mental adjustments. The players that can figure it out are successful.
quote:They all have the prerequisite mechanics.
The same guy made both of these statements.
Pure genius in our prescence.
What is abundantly clear...is...this guy who "has been around em"...still doesn't know what he's looking at.
The difference between Ankiel's swing and these...
Today's Greats
...is significant.
Your statement about the mental aspect is correct. However, you're showing your a s s when you say he has the prerequisite mechanics.
I have a library full of mlb hitters who are below average. Almost all of them have the mechanics of the Greats. So, yes, the mental aspect is very important.
But....Ankiel does not have the same mechancis....and you, ncball, can't identify it.
You wasted your time around the greats?
Floridafan,
Look at the distinct difference in the position of the hips at "go".
Look at the distinct difference in the swing planes....and especially how they are generated.
Look at the distinct difference in the position of the hips at "go".
Look at the distinct difference in the swing planes....and especially how they are generated.
quote:Originally posted by Chameleon:
Of all the mlb players that have had success (modern day...those that I have video of)...only two consistently hit AT extension. And they were/are pretty darn good.
This is a long swing by mlb standards.
Why don't one of you "smarties" list the differences between the recent bp swing and the spring taining swings. lol.
By hitting AT extension, do you mean too far out in front??? I believe ARod does that, but since he is so big and so strong, he can get away with it. As far as striking out too much, Reggie Jackson, Mark McGwire, Jose Conseco, Dave Kingman, Sammy Sosa, Mickey Mantle...do you see a pattern there???
Since you can't see his entire body from the same angle in each clip, it is very difficult to see many differences. Top left it looks like he starts his top hand out and around instead of getting on the plane of the pitch by getting his hands flat first and he appears to be swinging much harder. The other two swings look similar except he is stepping in one.
Hmmmmm 
Revealing........very revealing.
You can't see the differences...
You don't know where extension is...
You want everyone to believe you know what you're talking about...
lol
Revealing........very revealing.
You can't see the differences...
You don't know where extension is...
You want everyone to believe you know what you're talking about...
lol
I'm requesting a sidebar, your Honor. lol
Chameleon, can I please have the link to a video which I think you posted.
It was a video had "no", "no", "no"...."yes" imprinted within the video. I'm trying to keep up with you...and occasionally need to revert back to something from the past.
I appreciate it.
Chameleon, can I please have the link to a video which I think you posted.
It was a video had "no", "no", "no"...."yes" imprinted within the video. I'm trying to keep up with you...and occasionally need to revert back to something from the past.
I appreciate it.
sheesh. you're quick.
quote:Originally posted by Chameleon:
Hmmmmm
Revealing........very revealing.
You can't see the differences...
You don't know where extension is...
You want everyone to believe you know what you're talking about...
lol
I know what extension is. I just don't know how you define it! LOL
Chameleon- I will explain it for you in words that you understand. You don't know jack when it comes to actually applying this stuff. You've never been around it. Never applied it. All MLB hitters have the physical prowess or they would not be there. The difference between them and others is between the ears.
How do I know? I've had over a dozen big-leaguers from my program with more to follow. Over 200 that have gone on to D1 Baseball. What are your credentials? That you jerk people off with intellectual spew. Get over yourself. You are an absolute nobody who has done nothing when it comes to applying a baseball swing in a real game.
How do I know? I've had over a dozen big-leaguers from my program with more to follow. Over 200 that have gone on to D1 Baseball. What are your credentials? That you jerk people off with intellectual spew. Get over yourself. You are an absolute nobody who has done nothing when it comes to applying a baseball swing in a real game.
Hit the nerve, did I?
C'mon...
Point out the differences.
Can you?
Show us. Don't brag about your past. We could care less who you've "hung out with". Show us what you know.
Point out the differences.
Pick One...Compare Him To Ankiel........mouth
C'mon...
Point out the differences.
Can you?
Show us. Don't brag about your past. We could care less who you've "hung out with". Show us what you know.
Point out the differences.
Pick One...Compare Him To Ankiel........mouth
Not bragging. I've been around great hitters. Even helped them. You hypothesize. Never really done it. While you are sitting here playing on the computer, I'm actually coaching real players.
I know plenty about hitting. I even agree with about 80% of what you seem to know. The difference is that I don't disagree to look smarter and make up theories to be different. You are a reciter. Do A, B, and C. A real coach can detect a flaw and fix it. Big difference.
I'm done now. You, on the other hand, will go to this site and five others making comments on how smart you are. Good luck being the king of nothing!
I know plenty about hitting. I even agree with about 80% of what you seem to know. The difference is that I don't disagree to look smarter and make up theories to be different. You are a reciter. Do A, B, and C. A real coach can detect a flaw and fix it. Big difference.
I'm done now. You, on the other hand, will go to this site and five others making comments on how smart you are. Good luck being the king of nothing!
I stood 10' from Albert Pujols taking bp.
I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Now.....Point out the differences, mouth.
Pick a player and compare him to Ankiel, mouth.
We don't need to hear you say how smart you are.
Demonstrate it.
Or
Move along.
I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Now.....Point out the differences, mouth.
Pick a player and compare him to Ankiel, mouth.
We don't need to hear you say how smart you are.
Demonstrate it.
Or
Move along.
looks like the two left vids have less segmentation. Right vid is easier to see. (I could not get vids to work in QT). Hips open more in right video as rear legs looks more vertical at contact.
at hand c o c k, his barrel is pointed toward pitcher....rear elbow drops and hands move forward, then begin rotation into swing plane.
On MLB vids, I see barrel go from c o cked position slotted into lower position just before rear elbow drop to generate more consistent swing path.
In the Bonds video, at the 6th nope he has slotted the barrel into a lower positon. At the 7th nope, the shoulders tilt and the hands have begun the forward movement as his rear elbow drops and the hands have begun strong rotation of the barrel.
I'm guessing the primary difference you are looking for is that instance between "barrel c o c ked" and lauching forward where Ankiel pulls hands forward out of the c o c ked position then rotates hands late (he tilts and goes) while the MLB hitters continue moving the barrel from the higher c o c ked position in a downward and rearward loop before the shoulders tilt and hands begin forward rotation into swing path.
at hand c o c k, his barrel is pointed toward pitcher....rear elbow drops and hands move forward, then begin rotation into swing plane.
On MLB vids, I see barrel go from c o cked position slotted into lower position just before rear elbow drop to generate more consistent swing path.
In the Bonds video, at the 6th nope he has slotted the barrel into a lower positon. At the 7th nope, the shoulders tilt and the hands have begun the forward movement as his rear elbow drops and the hands have begun strong rotation of the barrel.
I'm guessing the primary difference you are looking for is that instance between "barrel c o c ked" and lauching forward where Ankiel pulls hands forward out of the c o c ked position then rotates hands late (he tilts and goes) while the MLB hitters continue moving the barrel from the higher c o c ked position in a downward and rearward loop before the shoulders tilt and hands begin forward rotation into swing path.
Whoooaaa,
Ya think one is quicker than the other?
Holy Cow, I didn't expect it to be this bad.
ncball,
C'mon....show us something. Tell us what you see?
Are these the same? Similar?
Do they both "have it" like ALL mlb players..... according to you?
90 K's, 25 BB's, 104 hits, .314 onbase in AAA to go with those 32 HR's, 89 rbi's, and .267 BA.
Can even YOU see why?
lol
Don't get me wrong. I am pulling for the guy. I see improvement in his recent bp swing.
But man.....he is a lot different than the high level mlb pattern.
Ya think one is quicker than the other?
Holy Cow, I didn't expect it to be this bad.
ncball,
C'mon....show us something. Tell us what you see?
Are these the same? Similar?
Do they both "have it" like ALL mlb players..... according to you?
90 K's, 25 BB's, 104 hits, .314 onbase in AAA to go with those 32 HR's, 89 rbi's, and .267 BA.
Can even YOU see why?
lol
Don't get me wrong. I am pulling for the guy. I see improvement in his recent bp swing.
But man.....he is a lot different than the high level mlb pattern.
That is a Little League swing being performed by a great athlete.
I've never seen a mlb hitter do what he does.
This does not even begin to compare to the 2 hitters I mentioned that hit AT extension.
Bust him hard in off the plate. Then fastballs low and away. Sliders away.
Change up should give him REAL trouble.
6-3's and 4-3's and flares to left field all day long.
I've never seen a mlb hitter do what he does.
This does not even begin to compare to the 2 hitters I mentioned that hit AT extension.
Bust him hard in off the plate. Then fastballs low and away. Sliders away.
Change up should give him REAL trouble.
6-3's and 4-3's and flares to left field all day long.
Ankiel seems to be a great aquisation for the cards.
quote:Originally posted by Chameleon:
Whoooaaa,
Ya think one is quicker than the other?
Holy Cow, I didn't expect it to be this bad.
ncball,
C'mon....show us something. Tell us what you see?
Are these the same? Similar?
Do they both "have it" like ALL mlb players..... according to you?
90 K's, 25 BB's, 104 hits, .314 onbase in AAA to go with those 32 HR's, 89 rbi's, and .267 BA.
Can even YOU see why?
lol
Don't get me wrong. I am pulling for the guy. I see improvement in his recent bp swing.
But man.....he is a lot different than the high level mlb pattern.
I would say he got fooled on a pitch up in the zone. Let's see 5 or 6 swings in a row during same or consecutive at bats. He appears to be way out in front on this swing.
Not a bad day today for someone that can't hit in the majors or at least has a "Little League Swing." 7 RBIs and 2 homers. Currently hitting over .350 and 23 RBIs total in a very short amount of time.
One of the best "Feel Good Stories" in MLB this season.
One of the best "Feel Good Stories" in MLB this season.
I find it amazing how a cyberspace guru can criticize a MLB hitter, any MLB hitter for that matter, when the guru only works in his garage and in cyberspace
Amazing how brilliant the guys who don't teach hitting in college or the pros think they are
Funny stuff but it only happens in cyberspace
great world is the cyberspace world
Amazing how brilliant the guys who don't teach hitting in college or the pros think they are
Funny stuff but it only happens in cyberspace
great world is the cyberspace world
quote:My guess is he's "tweening". He's in the process of changing his swing...as shown by the recent bp swing...it's much different than the other two...much better...and he probably reverts back and forth between them if his cocentration level drops or on certain pitch locations. It's not easy making a change at that level.
Here is what Chameleon actually said.......
Quite a difference from what TRhit represented....
any more videos of his swings in recent games? Can't imagine their as ugly as the one posted earlier.
As a Cardinal fan, I hope his streak continues. I would agree that any MLB hitter is still a work in progress. I do believe that they change on their own terms. I know that when I was able to sit in on some hitting work with Edmonds a few years back, he was really a student. He asked so many questions and wanted every facet critiqued. Now that was when he came over from the Angels and so, perhaps he has changed. I'd expect Ankiel to be much the same. I do clearly believe and agree with TR that these hitters have reached the apex of the game and so, who am I to critique them. Do I see things I'd change if I were the hitting coach? You bet. However, and perhaps this goes back to the question of do you change them when they are being so successful. I'd guess ONLY IF THEY ASK!
Chameleon was speaking, I believe, on his perspective of "long term." I'd get my crystal ball out and look.
Chameleon was speaking, I believe, on his perspective of "long term." I'd get my crystal ball out and look.
Swing may be ugly , but so far it sure can cook.
well, that's my point. We're sitting here critiquing one swing in one video. Every hitter gets fooled, swings ugly at some point. I haven't watched him at all. This one swing we're looking at, is it representative of a large percentage of his swings?
I've seen a few of Ankiels HRs, oddly enough he seems to hit the outside pitch and pull it out of the park. He just reaches out and hits it a long ways rather than rolling over and hitting a weak ground ball. I'm not sure how he does that, but it sure is amazing. And I bet Cardinal fans are loving it.
Has anyone who follows it closer than I do seen how he handles the inside part of the plate?
What an amazing athlete. There is video of his 3 hits and 7 RBI and great catch on MLB.com right now.
MLB.com
Has anyone who follows it closer than I do seen how he handles the inside part of the plate?
What an amazing athlete. There is video of his 3 hits and 7 RBI and great catch on MLB.com right now.
MLB.com
quote:The heart and drive and determination thing is something that no video analysis in the world will ever be able to capture. IMO.
Result's,
That it what matter's.
How it happens??
Who's care's.
Although,
I think it had something to do with the Bat behind the Back Drill. LOL
EH
Its,
Both are impressive, but I think there are more people with his heart and drive than who have his ability.
If he was back in the Big Leagues "pitching" I might lean more towards heart and drive.
No matter, this is an amazing story. But if anyone has a skeptical outlook, it must be remembered that he also started out as an amazing pitcher as a rookie. For a short time he was about as good as any pitcher in baseball. Hope that doesn't happen this time around.
Both are impressive, but I think there are more people with his heart and drive than who have his ability.
If he was back in the Big Leagues "pitching" I might lean more towards heart and drive.
No matter, this is an amazing story. But if anyone has a skeptical outlook, it must be remembered that he also started out as an amazing pitcher as a rookie. For a short time he was about as good as any pitcher in baseball. Hope that doesn't happen this time around.
