any future for the slower pitchers???

I see guys in AAA working at 80-82 all the time. But some HIGH SCHOOL coaches here in Texas would send them packing. They want football players on the baseball team. You can't get into a D1 in Texas unless you fit the mold I think.. my son too is a slow throwing lefty .. he was 5-1 and 100 lbs his freshman year.. now 6-0 140 as a Jr. he hasn't filled out yet but he's throwing 75-77 .. last year he pitched 2 innings against a nationally ranked top 25 team and shut them and their 3 D1 players out. 

In a JV start he went the distance giving up 1 hit on 59 pitches total (and in a 6A program)  ..but nothing... I cant believe how stressed we are that no one has shown interest when there are now kids just entering their freshman year with college offers.. I think we parents of filthy left handers need to start a support group  

Is this a new record. Has a thread ever been brought back from the dead after twelve years?

I assume AAA means 3A high school?

Here's the thing you have to remember when you are a pitcher in the mid 80's and mowing down HS hitters...in most games you might be facing 1 real Division I prospect or none.  In other words they are not good hitters and will not be playing at the next level.

It is the opposite of a kid who is a possible DI prospect and kills the mediocre HS pitching and is the District MVP.  How many of these guys end up at State U and never find the field?  More than you'd think.

Be careful of sample sizes too.  A couple of good innings or a swings against solid competition does not make you a prospect.  It means you had a good day.  That is why scouts/recruiters come back multiple times and send others to verify what they saw.

The funnel is real...and it is unflinching.  With limited spots only the strongest will be given the opportunity to advance.  You must have something Plus to offer.  Size and strength is always the best thing to have.  Speed or some excellent defensive skill in the middle of the field help too.

I have said it before and I say it again here:  Dustin Pedroia is the rare exception.  The game is coming back to more realistic sized human beings but there are not a lot of 5'9" guys dominating at the highest levels.  And there are none that are not over the top athletically.

You must have something Plus to offer.  Size and strength is always the best thing to have.  Speed or some excellent defensive skill in the middle of the field help too.

Is it okay to hijack a decade-old thread? For position players I'm thing bat-speed and reaction time are the 2 best things to have.  Followed by strength, then by intangibles like focus and competitive drive.

Re: Slower pitchers having a couple of good innings against good hitting high school/travel teams

Some coaches will use a slower pitcher for a couple of innings to get hitters on their front foot. What happens the second time through the lineup? The pitcher gets pounded as the hitters adjust.

Now go up to the next level (college). The hitters adjust by the second or third pitch and drive the ball.

Dannyball17 posted:

I see guys in AAA working at 80-82 all the time. But some HIGH SCHOOL coaches here in Texas would send them packing. They want football players on the baseball team. You can't get into a D1 in Texas unless you fit the mold I think.. my son too is a slow throwing lefty .. he was 5-1 and 100 lbs his freshman year.. now 6-0 140 as a Jr. he hasn't filled out yet but he's throwing 75-77 .. last year he pitched 2 innings against a nationally ranked top 25 team and shut them and their 3 D1 players out. 

In a JV start he went the distance giving up 1 hit on 59 pitches total (and in a 6A program)  ..but nothing... I cant believe how stressed we are that no one has shown interest when there are now kids just entering their freshman year with college offers.. I think we parents of filthy left handers need to start a support group  

Sorry, Danny but I see this all the time.  As a HS coach, when we go up against a highly ranked bigger school in a tourney, I will often throw the slowest throwing junker we have at them.  At the HS level, generally, the better hitters are geared to hit well against better throwers.  So, with their timing, they tend to do well against the P's that are in the 78 - 86 window.  Throw out something a few ticks above or below and you have a good shot.  Throw out low 70's and watch them flail.  

College hitters are much better at being able to sit, particularly when a guy doesn't have something quicker to mix in.  So that effective HS junker has taken his stuff as far as it's gonna go.  

But if your kid is 6' and hasn't filled out yet, he still has the potential to work toward a number that can translate.  Just don't expect it to be D1 unless the jump is really significant.

JCG posted:

You must have something Plus to offer.  Size and strength is always the best thing to have.  Speed or some excellent defensive skill in the middle of the field help too.

Is it okay to hijack a decade-old thread? For position players I'm thing bat-speed and reaction time are the 2 best things to have.  Followed by strength, then by intangibles like focus and competitive drive.

 

Yes it is true - there are other measures that are factors.   But the good big guy has a leg up on the good medium to small guy was my point.  Always has been and always will.

In the history of the game there have a grand total of 6 players that hit over 400 homeruns in MLB that were under 6' tall and it would be a pretty good lineup.  Yaz, Sheffield, Ott, Mantle, Mays and Aaron.  Only Sheffield and the tail end of Yaz played in the last 40 years as players have become bigger than ever before.

So even despite the steroid era Power which is still the premium skill comes with size.

I won't say you're wrong or even that  I totally disagree but velocity is 4th on the list of importance on any chart I've ever read .. its; Location, Movement, deception and velocity.. this might not even be true , but velocity is the only thing that can be measured, so it stands out. 

But think about it. RA Dickey won the Cy Young a few years ago throwing at about 70mph.. Jamie Moyer, and now Jared Weaver isn't breaking 85 .. its more than velocity but people are more comfortable going with the fastest thrower now - if he doesn't work out they can say .. well he threw 95 wth? not my fault he was a bust..

Carl Erskin was 160 lbs and still his record for strike-outs in a world series game, stands .. I believe the trend will go back to finese guys with a lot of movement .. just my opinion. 

Dannyball17 posted:

I won't say you're wrong or even that  I totally disagree but velocity is 4th on the list of importance on any chart I've ever read .. its; Location, Movement, deception and velocity.. this might not even be true , but velocity is the only thing that can be measured, so it stands out. 

But think about it. RA Dickey won the Cy Young a few years ago throwing at about 70mph.. Jamie Moyer, and now Jared Weaver isn't breaking 85 .. its more than velocity but people are more comfortable going with the fastest thrower now - if he doesn't work out they can say .. well he threw 95 wth? not my fault he was a bust..

Carl Erskin was 160 lbs and still his record for strike-outs in a world series game, stands .. I believe the trend will go back to finese guys with a lot of movement .. just my opinion. 

 

Dannyball, I know less than nothing about what it takes to succeed as a pitcher....BUT.....I always got the impression that you were right in a way.  It does go location, movement, deception and velocity....AFTER you are over 90mph. Many people on the board that have had sons make it very far in the baseball world, hopefully they can chime in.

Anybody know this OP?  I am guessing he faded away...  since we are continuing in his absence (or her, did not check) why is it that on other threads if it is suggested that there is somewhere for everyone and mid 80's is good enough for D1 you get lambasted but then other times people claim a kid throwing in the 70's can do it?  Most college coaches will give the lefty 2 or 3mph compared to a righty - not 10!  I hope this kid picked up velocity and made his dreams come true.  But 76 ain't going D1.

It does go location, movement, deception and velocity....AFTER you are over 90mph.

While this may be the order of importance, I would assume there is no static weighting and they all sort of have to work in concert with one another.  Start falling off slightly on velocity, you had better be off the charts on the others.  Velocity seems to be the one that can stand on its own - think of the 100mph+ relievers that have one pitch - location means either high or low - there is no real deception.  

As for pitching D1, I would assume a lefty that can pitch effectively could get by with 85mph max.  They won't necessarily be pitching SEC or ACC, but the D1 level runs the spectrum.  Similar to efforts to define "elite", please make sure that when you are referring the top 50 programs or the SEC or ACC, that you don't simply lump all D1 under the same umbrella.  

That said, if a lefty can get by with 85 max for the bottom third of D1 schools (bottom 100) and he is not really expected to pitch his freshman year, where does he need to be sitting the summer after his junior year?  From prior comments, assume a coach thinks he can squeeze out 5mph before first outing and expects the kid to pick up 3mph during senior season, that would put the minimum at 77 the summer after his junior year.  That sounds too low, but would love to hear folks thoughts.  

I attended a D2 game yesterday. Both SP were LHP. Both sat 83 - one had a sub-70 change. The RHPs brought in for relief sat 87-8. This is Southern California.

No pitchers were control maestros.

Velocity matters particularly for lefties, but it is more forgiving. My son found a spot as a 2016 recruit for D3 that fits him in Pa. He was generally 74 to 76 fastball and certainly in 60's with off speed pitches. His key was control and many hitters unable to square up successfully.

Attended PG, Showball, and Headfirst camps and many tournaments. Most feedback wanted LHP's in 78 to 82 range. They wanted ability to have enough velocity to get non-contact in a key spot if needed instead of ball in play. This was all D3 level, so it was hard to get real interest even after performing very well in scrimmages at specific school camps.

Fortunately, his DIII school sees his skills he possesses already, sees physical growth and more projection. Forget DI or even DII at this level velocity. Very rare, and even many DIII programs want near 80 or above right out of high school.

That's my take after going through this for two years.

My son was in the mid 80's summer before his Senior year, by scouts and recruiters guns not mine. LHP, He was interested in a Smaller school somewhere in the midwest, he did not want to travel more that one or two states away. We live in Ohio. Plenty of love from D3 schools but little if no love from D1's, D2's. Most of the D2 did not meet his academic requirements so he did not target many D2 schools. 

He ended up getting one or two D1 opportunities but very late in the process. They would have been walk on opportunities. Mostly because his HS head coach had a connection. But they were big state U. The schools did not meet his profile. 

Of coarse he was not projectable. He was 5-8/9 and 180. Built very solidly, but it was pretty clear from his body type and build he was not going to grow much more. hit 5-10/11 when he graduates college last year. 

Looking back then I could not understand why, but after watching College baseball over the last 4 years, I understand. Plus he had a very good career and his school gave him many opportunities. 

Thanks