Any suggestions on how to deal with a coach?

Why not just do what he needs to do to help his hs team and then play in the summer as well? Maybe over the course of the hs season he convinces the coach he needs to play in the field and let him hit.

I understand your frustration but how is not playing at all better than PO? Its only a three month deal anyway. I hope it works out.

One of the problems is that the guy abuses arms. Our summer season starts on the 27th. He wanted my son to pitch on Thursday on a JV tournament then come back on Monday to pitch for the Varsity. 3 days rest for the first start of the season after taking 4 weeks off when the HS JV season was over. He never lets them rest properly, he generally never tells them when they will pitch (except for this time) so they can't space their bullpens. He often warms up one guy during games for relief then uses somebody else to either keep the other team off balance or he just forgets, we can't tell which. His pitchers routinely throw 50+ pitches in an inning after a few errors. The list goes on and on. I am pretty sure that my son won't be able to play summers after a season of pitching only.

Oh yeah, once he brands you as a PO, that is all you do. He has made his decision.

Well it sounds like a tough situation that's for sure. I could talk about how I think its crazy to brand a kid this age as a PO or how ridiculous this coach sounds but that is not going to help you.

I think he needs to play hs baseball. Maybe he can find a way to work with his coach on rest and recovery between appearances. Maybe this guy will find another job before next hs season? Good luck

if it really is to the point where its a real impediment to his development or risk of injury, no one can blame you for looking out for your sons best interest. Many kids are shuffled around to fit the teams needs, its a part of the game, but if it crosses into the red zone, pull the plug. You definitiely need to discuss with the coach first though. Too mnay kids are over used - from daddy ball teams to college teams - everyone knows of examples. Summer ball is really much more effective for exposure and development.

You can do what we're going to do with my son. Play high school ball and make the best of the situation. When it comes time to announce college baseball plans have the press conference at your house or the showcase coach's house and don't invite the high school coach. The way my son has been treated this year (never praised, often screamed at in front of the entire park) despite having a great season we don't want the high school coach to get an ounce of credit. Imagine a high school coach telling a kid he can't play at a certain level of college ball when a pro scout told him he has the potential. In the mean time he does everything he needs to do because he's a competitor and respects his teammates.

Someone (whose daughter plays DIII ball) made the comment that if you pay too much attention to high school ball, your head will explode. I'm going to remember that for the next 3 years.

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
I am pretty sure that my son won't be able to play summers after a season of pitching only.

I'm not sure I understand that...

I do know of a player on my son's team who has been a PO all season...he had 1 AB early in the season in a game where the coach was letting everyone hit...He had a few games other than as a pitcher last year and got a few ABs, but had no problem playing in summer ball.

If necessary, take some time to give your some some BP and he should be able to pick up for the summer season quickly...

Hitters are hitters---give them a few weeks of BP and they are set to go


What disturbs me is that Daddy is "out of ideas"---it is not Daddy's concern now the boy is moving up the ladder--I think we are seeing " Daddy Ball Withdrawal"

The young man can go play summer ball and perhaps, JUST PERHAPS, you are his worst problem

Ah yes, the parent is the problem once again. Good old TR. He could be right so it isn't bad to get that perspective but I kind of prefer Coach May's perspective on this one.

My reading of this one is that the coach sounds like he could be a real problem. The kid sounds like he may have a really live arm. Often these posts are slanted a bit in their presentation (been there, done that) so it is possible there's still a workable situation and having the coach recognize a live arm early on isn't all bad. All in all, I'd say you've gotten pretty good advice from Coach May.

quote:

Originally posted by twotex:
Someone (whose daughter plays DIII ball) made the comment that if you pay too much attention to high school ball, your head will explode. I'm going to remember that for the next 3 years.

You are absolutely right. My daughter played college softball and obviously went through the high school experience. She had a smooth ride. Her head coach was the hitting instructor overseeing her entire travel organization (12U through 18U/G). I was the hitting instructor for my daughter's team so I knew the coach well. I forgot about all the high school nightmare stories I knew up from other schools and let my head explode recently. With my head back intact I told my son the issues are only speed bumps he can work around.

Stuff happens. On the bus after a conference championship game the players in the back of the bus don't seem that upset. It's a top program who figures they will get the opposition back at states.

The coach walks up the aisle and chews them up for not being upset. Then he goes after his top prospect pitcher (signed major D1) and calls him a name relating to how aggressively he felt the kid pitched that day. The kid, who is the All-American kid you would want your kid to emulate in any other situation stands up, tells the coach he's sick of four years of his bs and suggests the coach attempt a physically impossible task. I guess everyone has their limit. The coach kicks him off the team.

Then the coach gets in the face of one of the top prospects in the country and tells him he's not half as good as he thinks he is. The kid signed with a major D1. Chances are the kid will be Gatorade Player of the Year for the state.

Four kids take off their uniforms, and throw them at the coach (don't know if it's the top player). That's five kids off the team. Somehow I think there will be a meeting today to iron this stuff out. Otherwise, the team will have to withdraw from the tournament or play very shorthanded.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
Ah yes, the parent is the problem once again. Good old TR. He could be right so it isn't bad to get that perspective but I kind of prefer Coach May's perspective on this one.

Yes TR wishes he could coach orphans that act like Beaver Cleaver.

I would embrace the pitching and work like hell in the summer. Be grateful he is not watching the season from the dugout.

So this team (on the bus) is the team that just recently lost to your son's team right?

So I assume your son has friends on that team.....

dub l plsy

What the h e l l do you know about me and my coaching--the more you talk the more your
comes into the picture

Do I hear hear the song play--"Fool on the hill"

For a guy/girl with a blank bio and no info you sure have a lot of nonsense to spew---I have ne3ver said this to anyone but I will now--NO I won't even say--why lower myself to your sunken level !

Have a great day

quote:

Do I hear hear the song play--"Fool on the hill"

what, what?

TR, lighten up dude. You are going to have a coronary over a message board.

Everyone knows you never think a parent is right. You always side with the coach even if he is wrong, and the kids should listen and not speak. Every post that pertains to a coaches behavior or decision always blames the parent.

So that is why I said you'd rather coach orphans.

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
I am out of ideas.
My son is going to be a pitcher only. He hates it. The coach saw his arm and put him in the PO spot next year as a sophomore on JV. No way around it.

Now for the questions. Is there any other way to approach a coach for a player or parent if the player wants to play other positions? I have tried everything I can think of including talking to the coach and nothing matters. He lit it up this year on JV. 500+ave. 5 hr's 31 hits in 15 games including 17 extra base hits. I know I am a Dad with a Dad's perspective, but he is far and away the best defensive player at any position except catcher on JV or V. I can't afford to move and my son loves everything about the school except the coach. How bad will it look if he skips baseball in HS and just plays in the summer? My son is that desperate.

First off, I would never reccomend a parent trying to talk to the HS Coach... This is a bad idea. Your son in in HS now it's time for him to be proactive, and if he does not like something, or wants to play other positions he should tell the coach. What's the worst he can say? No? Second I was basically a PO in High School, I was a DH the days I did not pitch, but primarily I was just a PO. And there is nothing wrong with that. If your son is a PO, he now has less he has to work on, and can focus just on pitching, and improve himself in that area every day. What do you think is going to happen when he goes to college? Very rarely do you have 2 way players in college.

Not playing at all is going to hurt your son more than help him. What does that show to college coaches if they ask why your son did not play high school ball and your answer is "Well because he did not want to be just a pitcher"..

If the coach abuses arms, your son does not have to be on that list. He is free to say no at anytime. I know if I was looking at a college education and playing college baseball I would not sacrifice myself like that to win a HS Game. And he will only be hurting himself by going out there, not only physically but when his mechanics get sloppy, velocity drops, and the other teams are having a merry go round on the bases, it is not going to look to good to college coaches.

Now my last advice is this. As a parent you have can not get involved in this, this is up to your son to handle this. He is turning into a man, so its time he handles things like a man and voices his own opinion.

Quick review.
I haven't coached my son since he was 9 and in LL minors so it is def not daddy ball withdrawal. The coach has a history of destroying arms. Every pitcher on the team hurts. One rotater cuff repair this year and 3 others on V had to stop throwing and sat out the year. Last year on Freshman they only used 3 pitchers. All three are hurt. Not a good track record.

And when should you talk to a HS BB coach? When any kid tries to talk to him he just turns around and walks away and when he does talk it is "if you don't like it quit." He has never said it to my son, but he has witnessed it many times and all my son gets is the walk away.

And this is the communicator who benches kids for playing other sports, benches them for playing travel outside of his program in the off season. He never returns calls or emails from players or parents and says he will decide if your kid should play after HS and where he should play. He believes that scouts and college coaches rely heavily on stats and after season rewards.

Three kind of coaches:

1) Taking up space for the paycheck. 5-10%
2) Played but didn't make it all the way so went into coaching and are but heads to one degree or another 80%
3) Handful of guys that made it or just coached and guys from Category two that get it 10-15%

So your kid has a 7-1 to 10-1 shot to play for a great HS coach.

BTW similar ratios on parents. So by my math a kid has about a 1-2% chance to play for a Great HS coach AND has great parents.

What concerns me is the amount of threads started about bad hs coaches. Look we all know there are bad coaches. But guys there are bad coaches at every level of the game. From Tball to hs to college to the pro level. Your kid if he plays long enough will have to learn how to deal with a tough situation with a coach.

It would be wonderful if every player played for a wonderful coach. And sometimes some kids think the coach is great and others think he is a clown. Its not a question of having a bad coach its a question of how to learn to deal with a tough situation when your faced with one.

All a player can do is come to the park every day and bring his best attitude and bring the work ethic. After that it is out of his hands. Sometimes you just find yourself in a tough situation and you have to learn how to focus on what you can control and not allow what you can not control - control you.

This situation your son is in is not uncommon. There are many players in tough situations on many teams at all levels of play. And these things always work out if the player just keeps a good attitude and keeps working hard. It is never as bad as you think it is and its never as good as you think it is. Good luck

dub l play

I have not read a single post subsequent to your last post--- who the H E L L do you think your are talkling to me like you do---pal I do not think you can shine my shoes based on what you have in a vacant profile and inane responses
--and I have never said that to anyone but pal you take the cake for being inane

I dare you to pick up the phone and call me and tell me that s h i t one on one--I bet you won't because you nothing about me and you hide in the anonymous virtual world

Here is the number--call now and let us know if you are a man and have the guts to be real--then you can tell me what your background and experience is to warrant you attacks on me

Call now--- 860-794-0705

quote:

dare you to pick up the phone and call me and tell me that s h i t one on one--I bet you won't because you nothing about me and you hide in the anonymous virtual world

Are you going to challange me to phone duel? TR, relax dude, you are getting worked up over nothing, as you said my opinion should not affect you in the least. So don't let it.

My opinion is that you have never thought that bad coaches exist, only bad parents... I still believe that. In your 22749 posts, never have you taken the side of a parent.

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings... buck up big guy, don't cry its only an opinion.

As I said earlier in this post, the kid should be glad he is pitching, not watching from the dugout and work over the summer to improve his field performance and hitting.

quote:

Originally posted by ctandc:
So this team (on the bus) is the team that just recently lost to your son's team right?

So I assume your son has friends on that team.....

Not the team my son's team beat. It was another team in another conference where my son has travel teammates on the team and I have dad friends. I heard through the dad grapevine before my son found out. As predicted it was all fixed today. It's not a story the school would want out in the open. As it is the story spread like wildfire through the baseball community in one day. I purposely didn't name the school to protect the kids.

Coach May,

I think you got the point I was after. I intentionally used the same percentages on parents as coaches becuase the ratios describe the population at large.

10-15% Above average to excellent
80% slightly below to slighty above avearage
5-10% Below average to Hopeless

If we apply the thought about adults messing up Little League to HS I often wonder how it'd look.

Then again I guess we wouldn't have this forum to kill time on.

Thanks for the input. It comes down to transferring and sitting out a year, dealing with the insanity, or not playing at all.

We had our banquet on Friday. I was approached by quite a few parents. Graduating seniors. Out of 7 seniors, only one said thanks coach, and he had to because he was giving a gift card to the coach. That tells a lot.

I would have the say the vast majority of the parents I have had over the years are simply oustanding people. The fact is all they really want is for their kid to have a good experience. They want them to have fun and enjoy what they are doing. The parents that are not happy in most cases are the ones that no matter what you do they are going to find fault. I would put the number at 90% great people and 10% just dont really understand how this stuff really works and take it personal when their child does not get what they want him to get.

As far as coaches my experience is skewed. You see I dont hang out with the clown coaches. I dont associate with the ones that are pathetic. The coaches I know personally and have worked with over the years are outstanding people who love the game and want to help kids be the best they can be. They are not perfect. They have their faults just like me. But their heart is in the right place and they care about the kids. Whats the percentage of bad vs good? I have no idea.

Doughnutman,

Have you ever though about moving down East I-10?

RR23

Rod,
Horizon, North Canyon or Sunrise Mountain. But we are open to suggestions.

PS When I told the coach to pick when he wanted my son to pitch , thursday or Monday, he never called me back. Just a quick text messge to my son that he didn't need him. I have def PO'ed the guy. He wanted us to drive to Prescott and show up as a security blanket. Just in case.

He is a real POS.

quote:

Originally posted by luv baseball:
Three kind of coaches:

1) Taking up space for the paycheck. 5-10%
2) Played but didn't make it all the way so went into coaching and are but heads to one degree or another 80%
3) Handful of guys that made it or just coached and guys from Category two that get it 10-15%

So your kid has a 7-1 to 10-1 shot to play for a great HS coach.

BTW similar ratios on parents. So by my math a kid has about a 1-2% chance to play for a Great HS coach AND has great parents.

Personally I find this post offensive, ignorant, and uterly foolish and stupid. #1 I can agree with, yes there are coaches that are in this game for the wrong reason and are simply looking for a paycheck. I will certainly agree with you there. But #2 is what I find offensive, and I disagree with you 100%. I never made it "All The Way" how many people have? Not many. So simply because you do not make it, means you should not get into coaching? or because you did not make it means that, that is why you got into coaching? Absolutly ridiculous. How about just because you did not make it does not mean anything especially when there are alot of people out there that did not make it who still have alot to offer this game, and have a passion for working with kids, who are very knowledgeable.

I did not make it all the way. I have been lucky enough to coach at the HS, Collegiate, and Professional Levels. And oh yea, happen to also be a MLB Scout. Are you saying that the people who did make it and are now coaching, that they are good coaches and you should take their word as gospel. I have coached Pro ball with people who were MLB All Stars, and won a World Series, and you know what, they had no business being a coach. They were awful.

So before you make a statement like that, I think you should think again. And get your statistical analysis right.

I am also a scout and I did make it. I made it as far as my ability would allow me to. Thats all a player can do. Coaches excell in different areas of the game. Very few if any excell at all of them. Some coaches are outstanding at teaching the game. Some excell at different specific areas of the game like pitching for example. Some coaches are not good teachers of the game but can manage a game very well. Some coaches are not very good at teaching the game but are outstanding motivators and inspire their players. Some of the best coaches I have been around were not very good players but are great students of the game and connect with players. There are many different scenarios.

Finding great people to surround yourself with that bring strengths to your area's of weakness is a key part. I could go on about this for a long time. I dont have a problem with people who think most hs coaches are clowns. It is what it is. The bottom line is most people will only experience one or two hs coaches. They will draw their conclusions based on one or two and what they hear from other disgruntled parents. Its no big deal. The guys I know are outstanding people who love the game and do everything they can to no only develop baseball players but young men as well.

dub l play

You have no idea how a wrong are in your assumptions regarding TRhit---I have fired a number of bad coaches--I have seen my number of bad coaches--my team is made up of players who do not try out but come from HS programs that have coaches who know their stuff--bum coaches I do not accept players from--

As for you calling me "dude"--it shows your immaturity-

Still do not want to talk--it is not a duel because you would have no chance to survive--but perhaps you are afraid to find out how wrong you are about me and would have no other psoter to defmae and ridicule

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
What concerns me is the amount of threads started about bad hs coaches. Look we all know there are bad coaches. But guys there are bad coaches at every level of the game. From Tball to hs to college to the pro level. Your kid if he plays long enough will have to learn how to deal with a tough situation with a coach.

It would be wonderful if every player played for a wonderful coach. And sometimes some kids think the coach is great and others think he is a clown. Its not a question of having a bad coach its a question of how to learn to deal with a tough situation when your faced with one.

All a player can do is come to the park every day and bring his best attitude and bring the work ethic. After that it is out of his hands. Sometimes you just find yourself in a tough situation and you have to learn how to focus on what you can control and not allow what you can not control - control you.

This situation your son is in is not uncommon. There are many players in tough situations on many teams at all levels of play. And these things always work out if the player just keeps a good attitude and keeps working hard. It is never as bad as you think it is and its never as good as you think it is. Good luck

You have to remember Coach that good coaches probably wouldn't get mentioned here. The ratio of good coaches to bad coaches is probably 10:1 or even higher but like that squeaky wheel only the bad ones will be noticed by and large. There really is no need for a thread questioning what to do with a great coach but a bad one will get questions. I don't think there is a higher level of complaining by parents, it is just that when someone is bad it is noticed and questions are asked.

Look at this way. I'm sure you have coached hundreds, if not thousands of wonderful kids throughout your career. I am sure you dealt with wonderful parents and fantastic siblins and supporters of the kids and the team. At the same time I am willing to be you remember more the pain in the arses that were members of your team. I am sure you remember quite well the parents that made your life miserable.

It's the same thing. Parents who have good coaches have no reason to ask questions concerning what to do with their kids. It is only the parents with bad coaches that feel the need to ask.

quote:

Three kind of coaches:

1) Taking up space for the paycheck. 5-10%
2) Played but didn't make it all the way so went into coaching and are but heads to one degree or another 80%
3) Handful of guys that made it or just coached and guys from Category two that get it 10-15%

So your kid has a 7-1 to 10-1 shot to play for a great HS coach.

I wonder where I and many other who spent many years coaching high School fit in? Nice to know that in your eyes we are held in such a favorable light.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Three kind of coaches:

1) Taking up space for the paycheck. 5-10%
2) Played but didn't make it all the way so went into coaching and are but heads to one degree or another 80%
3) Handful of guys that made it or just coached and guys from Category two that get it 10-15%

So your kid has a 7-1 to 10-1 shot to play for a great HS coach.

I wonder where I and many other who spent many years coaching high School fit in? Nice to know that in your eyes we are held in such a favorable light.

Yea I wondered the same thing. But I have already expressed my disgust in that comment. But since we are talking about people who did not make it. I think it must be fair to say that the parents complaining about bad coaches because little billy cant be a hitter, or johny wants to catch should I talk to the coach, are simply complaining because they never made it themselves as players so they are trying to live there dream through their kid, and their kid is having the same thing done to them that daddy had done to him. Maybe even by the same coach. It is amazing because some of these parents care more about billy being a pitcher than billy does.

I am going to make a post about how to deal with a bad parent, or how to deal with a bad player. Will I get sympathy? Hell no I wont. I will get rants and raves from everyone because in society today people want to be spoonfed, and built up with false positives about their son's ability to play ball. And if the coach sees it differently and does not think Billy is a D1 Player or Pro Prospect, well he must be a bad coach..... Give me a break, it's a joke....

quote:

I think it must be fair to say that the parents complaining about bad coaches because little billy cant be a hitter, or johny wants to catch should I talk to the coach, are simply complaining because they never made it themselves as players so they are trying to live there dream through their kid, and their kid is having the same thing done to them that daddy had done to him.

My son is a solid college prospect. I can't discuss his coach without getting angry. I played college ball. I'm not living through my son. That's all I can say without going off.

(the following seven paragraphs of ranting have been deleted)

(deleted the one incident I felt I had to add ... moving on and letting blood pressure decrease)

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

I think it must be fair to say that the parents complaining about bad coaches because little billy cant be a hitter, or johny wants to catch should I talk to the coach, are simply complaining because they never made it themselves as players so they are trying to live there dream through their kid, and their kid is having the same thing done to them that daddy had done to him.

My son is a solid college prospect. I can't discuss his coach without getting angry. I played college ball. I'm not living through my son. That's all I can say without going off.

(the following seven paragraphs of ranting have been deleted)

(deleted the one incident I felt I had to add ... moving on and letting blood pressure decrease)

I can see your frustration with this coach as I would be. And my only words of advice to your son would be to keep his head up, and keep moving forward. As a player, he does not need praise from his coach, pats on the back, or writeups in the paper to know who he is as a player and a person. All he has to do is concentrate on himself and the men next to him. Play to the best of his ability, and let everything fall into place. At the end of the year, when all is said and done, if he feels he has something to say to the coach than by all means let it out, or just go up to the man, shake his hand with a smile and tell him "Thanks coach, I have learned alot from you, and that is how I never want to conduct myself as a coach, or as a human being" and with a big smile, walk away with a sense of pride, knowing you did not let him get the best of you. You did not let him win, and this will make him even more angry than if you feed into his BS and get mad and make a scene.

quote:

I will get rants and raves from everyone because in society today people want to be spoonfed, and built up with false positives about their son's ability to play ball. And if the coach sees it differently and does not think Billy is a D1 Player or Pro Prospect, well he must be a bad coach....

some people can not handle the truth. Talent is talent. If a kid has outstanding talent and plays well don't you think somebody will find out? Say a pitcher strikes out 14 15 everygame nobody will notice? The coach has to alert everybody?

last year of my tenure I benched a kid. last 5 games o for 20 or so lots of Ks Parent calls AD complaining. Was told to call told I ruined his kid. Of course not doing well in the last 5 games had nothing to do with anything. I guess I was one of those coaches who was just taking up space and a paycheck. to all those out there that go out of their way to criticize coaches There are 9 slots on the lineup. Despite what some say you put the 9 best on that given day to give you a chance to win. There are many variables that go into that. What the kid has done, his attitude, work habits in practice etc etc. The coach is with his players everyday in the baseball situations.

I look at it this one.

One parent complaining is an aberration.

Two parents complaining is two aberrations.

Three or four sets of parents complaining is something to be concerned about.

Will, I've found that you can't make everyone happy all the time. Some parents aren't going to be happy because Johnny isn't playing clean up or starting every game and that is fine. Kids need to learn adversity and they need to learn that if you don't produce then you will be left behind. We can hand out 'everyone is a winner' trophys as much as we want, in the real world it just doesn't happen.

As long as the kid understands why he is benched and realizes that it has nothing to do with anything but production then who cares what one or two parents think. I hate it when my kid isn't the number one guy too. But if he is slumping and has to be benched I don't blame the coach, I talk to the kid. Maybe there is something that he needs that I can do to help him either get his head right or to help him overcome whatever is causing him to not perform properly.

This isn't T-ball and no one gets a trophy at the end of the year.

I am curious how the simple statement that guys who didn't make it all the way and turned to coaching to stay in the game is construed as a negative comment much less and insult.

The bio of probably 97% HS coaches..college maybe some pro's and back to the real world. No shame in that because 97% of the world doesn't get to be what they wanted to be either.

If you read further I state that coaches and parents are like the population at large. A basic bell curve...80% ARE but heads to one degree or another and rank somewhere from slightly below average to slightly above avearage. If you disagree with my assessment of the world that's OK but I was not picking on HS coaches or parents in particular. Mediocrity is the norm. That is why 50% of people do not pay federal taxes and 5% pay about 70% of the taxes or something in that neighborhood.

The likelhood that a kid would find GREAT parents and coach at the same time is very slim. Finding two great anything in the same space is rare. How many HS teams have two future Major Leaguers at the same time? Or even serious D1 players? On a percentage basis it'll be way less than 10% of the thousands of schools out there.

I don't have any doubt my assesment of people is correct and please, please, please do not confuse intentions with results.