Article: Travel Baseball - a flawed system?

Travel Baseball seems to be something kids seem to enjoy.  I would agree that it has flaws.  Just like most everything, including instruction and coaching, there is the good, the bad and the ugly.

Personally, I think any type of baseball is good if kids are enjoying it.

I know what the writer was getting at regarding development.  But we seem to see a lot of highly developed players.  Maybe it's the level we see most of the time.  I see a lot more players now that are ready to play highest level baseball in college and professional baseball.  More freshman starters, more getting to the big leagues at a younger age.  A lot more than we saw 20 years ago or even 10 years ago.  

I truly believe that the very best tool for development is the GAMES.  Good coaches are developing players while the games are played.  Actually that is pretty much the idea behind minor league baseball.  They play a game nearly every day.  For amateur players, in the summer they don't play everyday, there is still time for instruction.

Still a good article, I like that he made it a point to mentioned it was his opinion.

Parental responsibility to find the time/effort/resources to provide the player with the practice time: Amen.

I still find it hard to believe that parents will hand over their son to an organization with the expectation that the organization will act as a means to develop the player. Cripes almighty: wake up Mom and Dad.

So to that end, I love the program that the author has created. It makes complete and total sense should the parent(s) not have the wherewithal to provide this to the player.

I agree travel ball should be for 14 and up

bacdorslider posted:

I agree travel ball should be for 14 and up

14 and up isn't really practical...how are the schools going to continue to verbal 8th and 9th graders if they don't start travel ball until 14u? That was actually a topic of conversation last night on ESPN during the NC/SC blowout.

bacdorslider posted:

I agree travel ball should be for 14 and up

I don't think you can limit it to age.  I do agree that a lot of 10U-13U teams have no business classifying themselves as "travel" teams....and no business spending 3-4 day weekends at hotels playing in tourneys they can't remotely compete it.  My son is a college freshman.  When he was 9 and started playing travel ball, the teams we saw at tourneys were very good....much better than I'd ever have expected to see for 9 and 10 year old kids.  The "big" tourneys may have had 16 teams at this age group...3-4 very good, and the other 10-12 that could at least compete with the top teams.   Now you've got 10U tourneys with 100 teams....with 80% of them being teams thrown together by a couple dads who have their son's playing P, SS and 3B and calling themselves a "travel" team.  I live close to a complex where they have 10U-14U travel games.....with teams from the same league my son's teams played in at those ages.  The level of baseball being played now is just awful compared to when he was that age.  There are just too many teams who claim to be travel teams.....and have kids who should be learning the game in rec ball before moving up. 

Don't get me wrong....there are still the "top level" teams....run by the same organizations who were fielding top level teams 7 or 8 years ago.....it's all the "new guys" who are starting teams just because it's so easy that are watering down travel ball.  It's also these guys who are convincing the parents that every kid who makes a so-called "travel team" will someday get a college scholarship.....when it's just completely untrue.

There are some great points made in the article but every travel organization is not the same. The problem is (in my opinion) that there are too many travel teams. Just as there are too many AAU teams in basketball so it's all watered down. East Cobb used to have the best players from around the city come tryout for the Astros and the very talented leftovers played for the Braves.  Now you have ten teams in one age group. The other problem (in my opinion) is disgruntled dads that start their own team and are not qualified to coach. I have no issue with dad coaches if they are good teachers of the games. 

Personally, when selecting a new team for my son last summer, I put a premium on practice time and reps. I still believe in playing games though or how do you measure progress? We've all seen 5 o'clock hitters at every level but if you can't deliver in games that's an issue. 

I think there is good and bad in travel ball hopefully we see more good and less bad in the future. 

Buckeye 2015 posted:

bacdorslider posted:

I agree travel ball should be for 14 and up

I don't think you can limit it to age.  I do agree that a lot of 10U-13U teams have no business classifying themselves as "travel" teams....and no business spending 3-4 day weekends at hotels playing in tourneys they can't remotely compete it.  My son is a college freshman.  When he was 9 and started playing travel ball, the teams we saw at tourneys were very good....much better than I'd ever have expected to see for 9 and 10 year old kids.  The "big" tourneys may have had 16 teams at this age group...3-4 very good, and the other 10-12 that could at least compete with the top teams.   Now you've got 10U tourneys with 100 teams....with 80% of them being teams thrown together by a couple dads who have their son's playing P, SS and 3B and calling themselves a "travel" team.  I live close to a complex where they have 10U-14U travel games.....with teams from the same league my son's teams played in at those ages.  The level of baseball being played now is just awful compared to when he was that age.  There are just too many teams who claim to be travel teams.....and have kids who should be learning the game in rec ball before moving up. 

Don't get me wrong....there are still the "top level" teams....run by the same organizations who were fielding top level teams 7 or 8 years ago.....it's all the "new guys" who are starting teams just because it's so easy that are watering down travel ball.  It's also these guys who are convincing the parents that every kid who makes a so-called "travel team" will someday get a college scholarship.....when it's just completely untrue.

+1

Obviously, we were typing at the same time and share the same sentiments.

Buckeye - I think I agree with most of what you wrote.  But I don't think there needs to be any race to get into travel ball at younger ages, even if on an elite team.  With both sons, we turned down multiple requests for 'elite' teams through Jr.HS and even up until 10th grade.  They were still there waiting for them when we were ready.

I'm not saying its the only or the best way - but its how we did it and I guess it worked out pretty well in my view.  Of course, one could argue that if we turned them over sooner, maybe the older one woulda got to the big leagues faster?  Or stuck once he got there?  But then again, maybe he woulda had TJ surgery earlier too and never got there?  Who knows?

joemtkg - I think we did expect that the organization we turned both boys over too would develop them.  And I do believe that organization did.  I should tell you that you could count on one hand the number of 'pitching lessons' our younger son had.  Yet he has some of the best command I've ever seen in HS, college and now minor league ball.  I give most of that credit to him, but I would also have to credit phenomenal HS coaches (they rarely get credit here) and very, VERY good travel coaches who I firmly believe helped to develop him.

I have to give a huge shout out to our local parks.  After having significant falloff due to travel teams, the parks did away with the All Star season and indicated they would host "mini-travel" teams.  Sort of a combo between park ball and travel-light.  Players play a park schedule with some percentage of those kids (maybe 25%) getting picked up by a newly formed "mini-travel" team hosted by the park.  I am a huge fan of park ball but had to face dwindling numbers as my youngest worked up through the age brackets (now at 10U).  I'm not sure this program will still be a good fit at 12U or higher, but for now it is pure joy.  The travel team has played in a few local tournaments (during free weekends with no park games scheduled) and stacks up pretty well with some pure "travel" teams in the area.  The sad fact is that we are not great, but rather the "travel" teams are closer to average, but get to stake their claim as "travel" players and parents.  I realize - even at 10U - there may be some players that need better competition, but for the vast majority, a solid park team - assuming you have solid coaches and access to decent facilities - will suffice nicely - at about 10-20% the cost of the travel team.  Throw in some part-time travel and it is the best of both worlds for now. 

Like any other facet of business - and travel ball is a business - there is good & bad. 2018's travel / development program plays instructional head-to-head games for almost a month before they play an outside team, excepting the USA Baseball kids who only have a few weeks practice time before they head to Arizona. If you aren't rostered for USA Baseball those players still play doubleheaders every Sunday so they can keep developing as well.  The program makes it aspirational for the players to become good enough to make the "A" team. 

From June-December (with August pretty much off) they play a doubleheader every Sunday (highly instructional during the games, and usually one Sunday a month has no games - just practice of certain fundamentals), and then they enter the key tournaments (USA Baseball, PG World Series, UA Southwest, Evoshield AZ, Fall Classic, etc.). They never play in the smaller local "we won a trophy!" tourneys as its deemed more valuable to use that time to develop, and they focus on 1-2 largest exposure tournaments in June-July-Sept-Oct. 

The program isn't perfect by any stretch, but 2018 certainly prefers it to "travel" teams his friends play on who get all excited about a 3rd Place trophy in the local round robin. Whenever 2018's team plays the local "travel" teams the parents are always blown away - like, "oh, so thats what future college players look like." Your baseball future looks a lot different when you face a kid throwing 88 as opposed to 72. 

Good points in article. Son never practiced while playing travel ball, that's why we found local hitting coach for him to see occas during times we were back in town.

Ok when he was older, but I've seen 8 yr old teams here who play 4-5 games a wk. They  should play less games IMO and practice at that age. I've also seen the younger kids only play one position, when they should be learning more. 

Little kids love to play wether it's on a HS field, College field, or somewhere like Lakepoint. Just take your time and not rush things. 

What's the difference between 'travel' and 'rec'?

Rec plays in a single park.  Travel plays in multiple parks.  It's all baseball.  What's the big deal?

I don't understand why more parents can't work harder to make preteen rec a better place rather than give up and believe their kid has to play travel. I saw a good line from a 12u dad on another board. He said he used to believe if his 8u son didn't get in the right travel program he would never make a 10u team. If he couldn't get on the right 10u team he would never make the right 12u team. His baseball journey would be over before hitting the big field. He now realizes it's hogwash.

My son played (I coached) in local LL and CR sponsored travel tournaments. It was for LL all star teams who didn't want to call it a summer when their all star teams were eliminated. CR all stars were allowed to participate during all stars. The furthest travel was thirty miles. We never played more than two a day. The championship was Monday night.

By playing rec in the spring my son learned patience and personal control. I told him when he got older the fielders behind him would be better. But they would still make errors. In high school an error never flustered my son on the mound.

Competitive travel started at 13u. For 13u, 14u and 16u (when the kids were fifteen) except for the team's one "trip" all the tournaments were within 45 minute trips. Except for instructional practices to adapt to the big field and one tournament in the fall after LL my son didn't play fall ball until heading into high school. His first paid instruction was after soph year of high school. He always had quality coaching going back to preteen ball. 

SultanofSwat posted:

What's the difference between 'travel' and 'rec'?

 

Though 2107LHPScrewball's situation is a little different, the difference is usually 4 C's:

Cost, convenience, competitiveness and commitment

RJM posted:

I don't understand why more parents can't work harder to make preteen rec a better place rather than give up and believe their kid has to play travel. I saw a good line from. 12u dad on another board. He said he used to believe if his 8u son didn't get in the right travel program he would never make a 10u team. If he couldn't get on the right 10u team he wou,d never make the right 12u team. His baseball journey would be over before hitting the big field. He now realizes it's hogwash.

My son played (I coached) in local LL and CR sponsored travel tournaments. It was for LL all star teams who didn't want to call it a summer when their all star teams were eliminated. CR all stars were allowed to participate during all stars. The furthest travel was thirty miles. We never played more than two a day. The championship was Monday night.

By playing rec in the spring my son learned patience and personal control. I told him when he got older the fielders behind him would be better. But they would still make errors. In high school an error never flustered my son on the mound.

Competitive travel started at 13u. For 13u, 14u and 16u (when the kids were fifteen) except for the team's one "trip" all the tournaments were within 45 minute trips. Except for instructional practices to adapt to the big field and one tournament in the fall after LL my son didn't play fall ball until heading into high school. His first paid instruction was after soph year of high school (he always had quality coaching going back to preteen ball. 

But if little Johnny doesn't play 12 games in three days every weekend when he is 8U how is he going to make the MLB when he is 18...

Actually sounds a lot like my kids path so far.  8u-12u played LL.  We did have the typical "shadow" travel team that is popular now a days but we played 1 extra game during the week and 1 on the weekend.  Never more then 30 minutes or so from our home fields.  Once the LL tourney was over we would play a LL special games tourney and 1 more tourney and our season was over.  

At 13U we moved to a full time travel team.  Still only played with 45 minutes of our home fields.  1 out of town tourney a year.  Decent off season workout programs and instruction.  Probably a little more emphasis on games then I would like but for the most part things were kept in perspective.

At 15U we moved to the showcase program we now play in.  Thing is they bill themselves as an instructional program, not a travel or showcase program.  Spend lots more time during the off season working on skills and with individual instructors then other area programs.  After the HS season they have a couple of weeks of practice and generally play a total of 3 or 4 games over the weekend (Fri-Sun).  They put about 80% of the kids who start the program when they enter HS and stay with it until they graduate in college.  A good portion of the other 20% could play, but for some reason or another choose not to.

I am fortunate to live in the Greater Atlanta area were most of my travel is to East Cobb (45 minutes) or Lake Point (60 minutes). We also have two out of town trips...one is in Valdosta, GA (4 hours away) and the other is Ft. Myers.  So for us, the notion of spending all summer in a hotel has never been our reality even though it is for some. 

Please don't think I am saying this with a puffed out chest because it's for illustration purposes only. My son had an opportunity to play on well-known team that would fly him to various tournaments w/no practice time with his potential teammates. Some people like that but I am not interested in that for him. I was adamant about well-run practices where he could get a ton of reps - not an hour and half of batting practice on the field and shagging balls. 

At my son's practice yesterday this was all happening at once:

1) Coach standing between home and third, throwing pop-ups over third basemen's heads working on over the shoulder catches.

2) Coach behind the mound working MIF's on turning two every way you can imagine.

3) Coach behind the mound hitting fungo short hops to first basemen.

4) Coach at plate shooting popups w/pitching machine to outfielders who had their backs turned and had to turn around (after the ball was in flight) and find the ball on outfield coaches alert. 

Now, that's practice and I rest my case that all travel ball organization are not the same. Some will only put a good product on the field while others will take as many kids/teams that can pay the $2000. It's sad but true because I did my homework before selecting a team for him. 

We hold many Travel Ball tournaments.  We even plan on holding more and more tournaments for younger age kids.

That said, I agree 100% that it doesn't matter whether it is Rec Ball, Sand Lot Ball, Travel Ball or whatever.  It is all baseball and it is all good!

We do a recreational league that not many know about.  It was formed to give a lot of young underprivileged kids, both boys and girls, an opportunity to play baseball.  All the equipment, gloves, bats, balls, uniforms, etc., is free.  Not a lot of instruction, a whole lot of fun.  Most of the kids will never play HS baseball or any other baseball.  We provide the coaches, umpires and give out tickets to the local minor league games.  We even provide transportation to and from the games.  

This league probably won't  produce many outstanding baseball players, but it will be producing a lot of baseball "fans".  It is just as important as the other things we do, maybe even more so in some ways.  Bottom line, kids are playing baseball and enjoying it, that is what really matters the most.

I love baseball and if I had it my way everyone would love baseball.  There is so much that is great about the game besides who develops the best, goes on to play college ball or ends up making it to the Big Leagues.  While there is nothing wrong with kids chasing big dreams and working hard to reach them, there's so much more.  Playing the game, learning about the game, falling in love with the game, that can happen at any level of play.

So yes, IMO Rec Ball is just as big a deal as the top level of Travel Ball.  And it is possible that some will start in one place and end up in a different place or level.  But it is all GOOD!

Interesting thread. I have no experience with travel teams 10U and below, as 2019Son didn't start dabbling in travel ball until 11U, and didn't really start until 12U (he had played two tournaments, total, before 12U). And his 12U - 14U travel teams practiced a lot -- at least two practices per week, and often times three practices per week. Even his high school travel team has two practices per week in the summer and fall, although I understand that is somewhat rare for high school travel teams.

You know where there's no practice? Little League -- my 3rd grader will play about 24 LL games this spring, including playoffs. And the total number of practices will be under 20. A few years ago some genius in our league decided that 18 games in LL weren't enough, so they upped the number of games, which limited field availability for practice. Plus we've had some rainouts in the league, which means the games get rescheduled for what would have been practice time. You want to know why someone would go to travel ball? 2025Son keeps asking, and my wife and I keep resisting -- we said "no" to 2019Son for about two years when he was 9U and 10U -- but it is tempting after seeing (again) the lack of practice time or concern with development in LL. I just keep reminding myself that he's only in third grade . . .

PGStaff posted:

We hold many Travel Ball tournaments.  We even plan on holding more and more tournaments for younger age kids.

That said, I agree 100% that it doesn't matter whether it is Rec Ball, Sand Lot Ball, Travel Ball or whatever.  It is all baseball and it is all good!

We do a recreational league that not many know about.  It was formed to give a lot of young underprivileged kids, both boys and girls, an opportunity to play baseball.  All the equipment, gloves, bats, balls, uniforms, etc., is free.  Not a lot of instruction, a whole lot of fun.  Most of the kids will never play HS baseball or any other baseball.  We provide the coaches, umpires and give out tickets to the local minor league games.  We even provide transportation to and from the games.  

This league probably won't  produce many outstanding baseball players, but it will be producing a lot of baseball "fans".  It is just as important as the other things we do, maybe even more so in some ways.  Bottom line, kids are playing baseball and enjoying it, that is what really matters the most.

I love baseball and if I had it my way everyone would love baseball.  There is so much that is great about the game besides who develops the best, goes on to play college ball or ends up making it to the Big Leagues.  While there is nothing wrong with kids chasing big dreams and working hard to reach them, there's so much more.  Playing the game, learning about the game, falling in love with the game, that can happen at any level of play.

So yes, IMO Rec Ball is just as big a deal as the top level of Travel Ball.  And it is possible that some will start in one place and end up in a different place or level.  But it is all GOOD!

Good stuff!

2019Dad - I think its disappointing that is going on in LL.  Maybe thats the way its evolved?  It wasn't when I was involved - at least not on my teams.  We'd have practice if we could find a patch of grass in the outfield at a park.  So many things we could do for 60-90 minutes out there.  Our teams practiced an average of 3 days a week, plus 2 games.  Thats 5 out of 7 days of baseball!!

Of course we had some families/players that weren't interested in that - but not too many.  Most loved the heck out of it.

When we got to all stars - we'd have practice 5-6 days a week.  And we had a plan for each hour, each day and each week leading up to the tournaments.  Our kids got something equivalent to a 3-5 week baseball camp - for free!!

It was a blast and perhaps something that I'm more proud of than just about anything in our baseball experience was that close to 100% of our all star kids and probably something like 50% of our regular rec kids went on to play at least one year of HS baseball.

justbaseball posted:

2019Dad - I think its disappointing that is going on in LL.  Maybe thats the way its evolved?  It wasn't when I was involved - at least not on my teams.  We'd have practice if we could find a patch of grass in the outfield at a park.  So many things we could do for 60-90 minutes out there.  Our teams practiced an average of 3 days a week, plus 2 games.  Thats 5 out of 7 days of baseball!!

Of course we had some families/players that weren't interested in that - but not too many.  Most loved the heck out of it.

When we got to all stars - we'd have practice 5-6 days a week.  And we had a plan for each hour, each day and each week leading up to the tournaments.  Our kids got something equivalent to a 3-5 week baseball camp - for free!!

It was a blast and perhaps something that I'm more proud of than just about anything in our baseball experience was that close to 100% of our all star kids and probably something like 50% of our regular rec kids went on to play at least one year of HS baseball.

You did it right!

2019Son was on a little league team when he was 11 that practiced like crazy. And they got a lot better! Ended up winning not only the league but the district TOC (tournament of champions) with a team of 3 twelve-year-olds, 4 eleven-year-olds, and 4 ten-year-olds. From that team -- not an all-star team, just a regular season team -- I believe 8 of the 11 kids are currently playing in high school. They practiced, they improved, and, oh yeah, getting better correlated with winning, and that was fun, too! Like you said, there were a few families that weren't into it, but I know my son will remember that coach for decades. It sounds like some of your former players feel the same way about you.

In the intervening years we moved to a neighboring town with a different little league. Equal to or more games, but many fewer practices. Strangely, this league never wins any district tournaments . . .

And thus the great divide.  Travel Ball isn't what it was 10 years ago, yes it was elite, yes it was select, and yes now the words Travel Ball do not necessarily mean the kid can play at a high level for his age group.

BUT

When your options are rec-ball, 1 practice a week and one game on a weekend for 12 weeks in the Spring and 8 weeks in the fall where your kid MUST play with 3 kids in the outfield who can't catch a pop-up, a kid at 1B that your kid has to carefully throw to so the poor kid doesn't tinkle at the fast ball coming at him and he may or may not be able to catch it, and your kid had a 1.000 on base percentage.....what else can a parent but go to travel ball?

At 9u I had ZERO thoughts of my kid playing in the MLB, what I was thinking was "Wow, he seems to really love baseball and he's good at it and has made friends and is active when so many of his classmates are playing video games...oh he can play on the same team for 9 months out of the year with the same kids who can ACTUALLY throw and catch, oh yeah, sign him up!"

Why does it have to be a sinister thing to play Travel Ball?  Why can't it just be about kids who want to play more baseball and have fun with their friends?

There is nothing sinister about playing baseball at any level.

CACO3Girl - I think you're drawing a line and a conclusion about the topic that no one else is drawing - and certainly not the author of the article.

I think its rather disappointing - all of the stories I read on here about the degradation of youth and HS baseball.  Bad coaches, bad LL's, lousy teammates.  Our kids had some or all of that, yet somehow they loved it and survived it.  Even our 2 sons that never played baseball beyond 1 year in HS - one now umpires up into HS levels and the other one enjoys playing softball in a city rec league...and loves that too.  They're two young adults who love the game of baseball despite only ever being exposed to local youth/rec baseball.

I honestly don't know what I'd do today - since I'm not going through that today.  We moved less than 2 years ago to North Carolina.  The youth league here (West Raleigh Baseball) seems to be thriving with over 1,000 kids and even taking teams to the Cal Ripken WS (and winning it sometimes too!!).  It seems to me that kids here have a pretty good youth league to enjoy.  I have a friend who coaches 2 teams there - he played D1 ball himself - and I'd have no reservations at all about my grandkids playing in that league in just a few years.

Sorry its so bad elsewhere.

I think people get hung up on the term "travel." Most teams play in town and take one or two fun trips per year pre-HS.

If my son was playing in the county rec league we would be traveling to parks around the county - some as far as an hour away which is about the same travel time to LakePoint.

justbaseball posted:

CACO3Girl - I think you're drawing a line and a conclusion about the topic that no one else is drawing - and certainly not the author of the article.

Definition of sinister: giving the impression that something harmful or evil is happening or will happen.

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Quotes from this thread:

I still find it hard to believe that parents will hand over their son to an organization with the expectation that the organization will act as a means to develop the player. Cripes almighty: wake up Mom and Dad.

 I agree travel ball should be for 14 and up

 I do agree that a lot of 10U-13U teams have no business classifying themselves as "travel" teams....and no business spending 3-4 day weekends at hotels playing in tourneys they can't remotely compete it.

 Now you've got 10U tourneys with 100 teams....with 80% of them being teams thrown together by a couple dads who have their son's playing P, SS and 3B and calling themselves a "travel" team.

 it's all the "new guys" who are starting teams just because it's so easy that are watering down travel ball. 

 The problem is (in my opinion) that there are too many travel teams. Just as there are too many AAU teams in basketball so it's all watered down.

 But I don't think there needs to be any race to get into travel ball at younger ages, even if on an elite team.

 I don't understand why more parents can't work harder to make preteen rec a better place rather than give up and believe their kid has to play travel.

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Quotes from the article:

In my opinion, travel baseball will not help the player develop in this way, but conversely stunts the baseball player’s growth, if not coupled with proper player development.

The need to play on these teams to get opportunities down the road is simply not true at such a young age.

It is necessary to work on team fundamentals as well as individual skills in order to develop the player. It is done at the highest levels, but not done at the “Elite”, “Travel Team” level.

Far too often, these times are not used as learning opportunities because the focus is on winning is too great.  We need to encourage travel team coaches to take the time to teach in these situations.

Our children’s growth from a baseball perspective is being stunted because the system puts too much emphasis on winning tournaments when they are nine years old.

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I read the article and I agree fundamentals are important to learn.  What I don't understand is why the author thinks that universally in travel ball they are NOT being taught.

If somebody wrote a book or article about how good things are, nobody would buy it.

You are currently living in the greatest and best era of mankind on earth.  In 1900, average life expectancy in the world was 31 yrs old.  It is now 71 yo.  

See the ball, hit the ball.

"Definition of sinister: giving the impression that something harmful or evil is happening or will happen."

CACO3Girl - Not connecting that to most of the quotes you cited.  To me, they are just observations...no different than yours about rec ball...that aren't anything about 'evil' or really about 'harmful' either.

I guess you can read the worst into them?  Doesn't hit me that way though.  Certainly I don't read 'sinister' into any of whats posted here on either side.

Like so many things, its not an 'all or nothing' proposition we're discussing here.  This author has pointed out some things that as a parent, I certainly saw to be true in some (maybe many?) cases.  Why wouldn't you want to think about his observations, as a college coach, and utilize it to do just a little better at creating the best overall baseball experience you can for your son?  Very few of us had or have it all figured out when our kids were/are 13/14.  Heck, I've got 5 that are 20 and above I'm still figuring things out!! 

"I read the article and I agree fundamentals are important to learn.  What I don't understand is why the author thinks that universally in travel ball they are NOT being taught."

Perhaps because he is a college coach who scouts 100's of games each year and recruits 10-15 players every year and finds they don't know how to play the "team game."

As the author noted, the individual skills might be better than ever. However, throwing to the wrong base, not advancing runners, not handling cuts properly, etc, (giving the opposition extra bases and making your pitcher throw more) is the focus of the article.

I would submit this is the essence of the article and the reason this college coach wrote it:

"This development is important and individual skills may be better in most of the youth players today, but the knowledge team fundamentals and how to the play game is, however, lacking greatly."

I'm glad we had an option to play on a travel team at 8U. That doesn't mean it was our only option but we left rec ball and never looked back. He played with like-talented kids, and metro Atlanta offers less mileage in regards to travel than others. He played rec again at 10U due to use moving and had a blast, made an all star team and had fun there too. 10U fall and up was travel again. He was better than most on that rec team and i'm a huge believer in small fish, big pond. I like options, no situation is perfect all the time. It's all about the team goals, the coach and why that guy or those guys are in coaching. Plenty of good-hearted, loving dads consistently coach under performing teams via their W-L record. Plenty of a holes coach "winning" programs. People like to be associated with winning, or "The" program. 

Find a happy medium or at least be present in the decision and remain active in your role as a parent because you are why your kid is there on that team. If you don't like it you don't let him play there, unless he is paying for it and driving himself. 

I'm guilty of being driven for my kid in that i pushed him to maximize his potential. That is until i realized he had to do that himself and he found his way through 13U-14U and kept playing. Dimensions, competition,high school, and the various college levels will separate the kids who have the talent/drive to continue and it's inevitable......the separation will happen and you/your kid may not be ready for it so enjoy your time now and have as much fun as you can.

I'd go back right now if i could to see my (now college PO) son hit 2 homers in Cooperstown in our 1st game from the 9 hole for 6 RBIs. He made the decision to play on an established team as a role player for that year and that season. Yeah, you're freakin right, you bet i would sit right there in that green plywood box in a heartbeat and root for him.

As a whole, travel baseball is a pretty good thing for a kid who understands it is a priviledge and responsibility.  Where I disagree with the author is that you can't compare youth travel baseball 13U or under with 14U and over travel baseball.  There is a huge, huge difference in expectations, costs, and commitment.  Older travel baseball requires a 60/90 field and those are not easy to come by.  Access to 60/90 fields is limited, and I think some organizations take advantage of that.

For most youth (13 and under) travel teams, I agree the coaches are all about team & individual development and instruction.  Winning is great but not a requirement for them.  Of course there are exceptions, but it is almost always about the kids. Youth travel teams have access to fields and can practice on a fairly regular schedule.  This is a great thing, and possibly one of the contributing factors to more youth travel teams today. 

With older travel teams there is much less emphasis on team development, and more individual developmental emphasis, winning and making money for many of these teams.  Access to 60/90 fields is limited, and it would be great if these teams could practice more often.  As the author points out there needs to be a greater emphasis on team practices and team development....after all it is a team sport. 

Full disclosure....I coached a very successful travel team from 9U to 14U.  Our team's sole focus was to prepare & develop our "kids" to make their high school team.  We were extremely successful against that goal as all of our kids made their high school team and 4 of them are currently playing in college.  From my perspective, myself and our coaches gave them a solid baseball foundation and had a lot of fun doing it.  Once they made their high school teams they were practicing every day, and their talents blossomed...some blossomed more than others but that is the way the baseball world works. 

JMO

The way I see it, the title is what bothers me a little bit.

Travel Baseball - a flawed system

There are many great Travel Ball Organizations, that shouldn't be labeled as flawed.

Truth is we can find good and bad in most every system.

RJM - I don't understand why more parents can't work harder to make preteen rec a better place rather than give up and believe their kid has to play travel.

Excellent point.  Though it can be better yet if the make their local league better, and do some travel in the off season.

HSHULER- The problem is (in my opinion) that there are too many travel teams....so it's all watered down.

So what?  I say water it down even more.  Like PG says, there's nothing wrong with kids playing baseball at any level.  One of my neighbor's kids is just a decent player, and also what you might call an "at risk" teen.  His dad built an AA travel  team around the kid for years. It's given them thousands of hours together, helped the kid stay focused on goals, helped him (and other kids) make good choices in life so far.

FENWAY - I coached a very successful travel team from 9U to 14U.  Our team's sole focus was to prepare & develop our "kids" to make their high school team.

IMO, this is the proper role of a youth travel team. I have team photos of every youth team I coached above my desk.  I measure the success of those teams by how many kids kept playing at least into high school.

To me the only real failure of the travel "system" (though that's like calling a bunch of cats a herd) is the issue of arm health.  Too many kids pitching too much for too much of the year.   But we all know that, right?

I wouldn't say all travel ball teams are "flawed" or that the entire system is flawed.  Does it have flaws?  Yes, just like any other league or sport.

Son played for a "travel" team from age 10 (11U) until he was 16 (17U).  It wasn't an "elite" team.  It was more of local travel team. The stated purpose was to prepare the boys for HS ball (JV and Varsity).  To that end it served its purpose.  Almost all of the boys went on to play HS ball for their respective schools.  And about 1/3 of them went on to play in college.  The team was never about "winning" tournaments though they certainly strived to do so.  Coach deemed it as a successful program when most of the boys made their respective HS teams.

Most games were double headers on a weekend (Saturday and Sunday) either locally or within a half a days drive.  Averaged one tournament in the state somewhere about once a month.  Practices were 2-3 times per week.  The coach spent most practiced working on individual skills, but there were also practices were he worked on situations - turning double plays, bunting, hit and run's, driving the ball deep (sacrifice) to drive a run in.

Typically the team played from March thru late May/early June with a short break before playing through July and August.  Usually another break in late August and then fall ball from mid September to early November.  Then a long winter break before convening again in February.

Like PG stated, any league (travel ball, LL, Legion, etc) where the boys are playing ball is still a good thing.

hshuler posted:

HSHULER- The problem is (in my opinion) that there are too many travel teams....so it's all watered down.

So what?  I say water it down even more.  Like PG says, there's nothing wrong with kids playing baseball at any level.  One of my neighbor's kids is just a decent player, and also what you might call an "at risk" teen.  His dad built an AA travel  team around the kid for years. It's given them thousands of hours together, helped the kid stay focused on goals, helped him (and other kids) make good choices in life so far.

That's a great story and there is nothing wrong with that. In the context of the article, his beef is the lack of teaching.  The more teams you have, the more watered down the coaching. I don't have an issue with travel ball...that write does. I coached travel ball for four years and hopefully provided kids with some great instruction and better memories. I am not the one who thinks travel ball is evil.  People who are involved with it can be evil.

 

The problem I see with watered down travel ball are teams that should have stayed in rec ball that is much cheaper.   Travel ball organizers are there to make money first so obviously the more teams the more revenue.  

Nothing wrong with making money but encouraging watered down travel teams to participate doesn't help anyone except the people that make money off of registration and entry fees. 

Travel baseball is not a "system."

It is a catch-all term used to describe pretty much all non-scholastic baseball played by anyone high school age and below that isn't part of Little League, Dixie, Pony, Babe Ruth, American Legion or one of the other longstanding national organizations. It's everything from our local weekend cancer fundraising tournament to the Area Code Games and the big October tournament in Jupiter.

"Travel baseball" encompasses so many ages, organizations, formats, and approaches in so many places that anyone who has any pre-conceptions---good or bad--can find abundant confirmation of them.

Every part of travel baseball exists because someone responded to some need, problem, or situation by creating more opportunity to play baseball.

I am in favor of the opportunities that serve developmental, competitive or recreational purposes well. I am not in favor of the ones that are exploitative, unbalanced, or poorly executed.  

Generalizations about "travel baseball" that don't define the term or specify what part of the travel baseball world they are talking about generally leave me unpersuaded because of their superficiality and reliance on conveniently selected anecdotes.

That is a good point, Swampboy.

The name Travel Ball really doesn't describe anything.  Wonder how that started?

Truth is that many players and teams that play in other national organizations, also play in big tournaments that most would consider travel ball events.  

Awhile back someone came up with the idea of calling their group a "Showcase Team".  Then people started labeling our tournaments "Showcase Tournaments".  I never understood that because we thought we were just holding baseball tournaments.  Sure some of those tournaments draw lots of scouts and college recruiters, but so would any tournament that had many of the best players and the best teams.  Most of those best teams do not call themselves showcase teams.  Yet they get scouted the heaviest, while some of the showcase teams don't have much to showcase.

Maybe being on a Showcase Team sounds like it is worth more to kids and their parents.  People need to understand that as a player, you can't buy your way to the top.  

justbaseball posted:

CACO3Girl - I think you're drawing a line and a conclusion about the topic that no one else is drawing - and certainly not the author of the article.

I think its rather disappointing - all of the stories I read on here about the degradation of youth and HS baseball.  Bad coaches, bad LL's, lousy teammates.  Our kids had some or all of that, yet somehow they loved it and survived it.  Even our 2 sons that never played baseball beyond 1 year in HS - one now umpires up into HS levels and the other one enjoys playing softball in a city rec league...and loves that too.  They're two young adults who love the game of baseball despite only ever being exposed to local youth/rec baseball.

I honestly don't know what I'd do today - since I'm not going through that today.  We moved less than 2 years ago to North Carolina.  The youth league here (West Raleigh Baseball) seems to be thriving with over 1,000 kids and even taking teams to the Cal Ripken WS (and winning it sometimes too!!).  It seems to me that kids here have a pretty good youth league to enjoy.  I have a friend who coaches 2 teams there - he played D1 ball himself - and I'd have no reservations at all about my grandkids playing in that league in just a few years.

Sorry its so bad elsewhere.

West Raleigh...smh. They were the bump in the road we ran into every year in our Cal Ripken regional tournaments. 2 years ago in 12u we beat them in pool play and then lost to them in the finals by 2 runs. A few weeks later at a team party we watched them on TV 10 run Japan in the WS final. It was fun to watch kids that our kids had played against but sickening to know how close we came to playing on TV. My son went outside after the first inning, couldn't watch lol.

I believe travel ball has its positives and negatives. We've found that most of the AAA teams in the south east are ran with development being a high priority. There are some Major teams that fly kids in and out that are more interested in playing a lot of ball than developing players.

I will make one observation. I have noticed when coaching players in MS from both All Star teams and travel ball teams that the players from the good all star teams tend to be more gritty. They tend to find a way to win. I think it's because when the all star players lost a tournament, their season was pretty much over. When travel ball players lose a tournament there's always another one 2 weeks away. Not always the case but just an observation I've seen.