Balk

If time was called then no you cannot balk BUT if the ball was live and he was in contact with the rubber then he can balk at anytime. Just because the batter is half in and half out of the box doesn't mean time it out.

What coach said.

Why was the balk called?

What was the PU doing?

If he had a hand up holding off the pitcher, then no balk should be called.

Was the ball in play?

If the last thing that happened was a foul and the batter had yet to retake the batter's box, then no balk should be called.

If the ball was in play and the umpire was not holding off the pitcher it would depend, for me, on the balk. A technical mechanical balk, such as the pitcher switching from the set to the wind-up and stepping off with the wrong foot in transition would probably not get seen clearly.

A balk on a move pick to off a runner would definitely get called.

If the ball was pitched while the batter was in this position then- It was most likely a balk because he pitched while "not facing the batter" according to rule 8.05(f)"(..it is a balk when) The pitcher delivers the ball to the batter while he is not facing the batter".

Rule 6.03 defines the legal batting position of the batter in order to be defined for rule 8.05(f)

6.03 "The batters legal position shall be with both feet in the batters box"

Because the batter was not in a legal position for the pitcher to throw the ball, a balk was called.

This is similar to the illegal "quick pitch" which defines pitching the ball once the batter has taken his legal position in the batters box but before he has been given a reasonable time to get set for the pitch.

If it was not pitched, then of coarse the balk can still be called if time hasn't been called and the pitcher makes a motion while touching/ not touching his plate that would constitute a balk.

I was once in a game where the pitcher would start his pitching motion immediatly once both feet were in the box while the batter was still getting dug in. I argued and won that it was an illegal pitch to pitch that quickly.

Just one other thought-

Once had a situation where the pitcher was on the mound touching his plate while the batter was still getting his sign and the pitcher drops the ball and gets the balk call.

Also-

Batter in box waiting for pitch and pitcher had come to the set position and then batter asks for time and pitcher drops hands from mitt without removing his rear foot from the rubber thinking time would be granted only time hadn't and pitcher was charged with balk.

quote:

Originally posted by Gingerbread Man:
If the ball was pitched while the batter was in this position then- It was most likely a balk because he pitched while "not facing the batter" according to rule 8.05(f)"(..it is a balk when) The pitcher delivers the ball to the batter while he is not facing the batter".

The intent of 8.05(f) and both historical and present professional interpretation is to prevent F1 from pitching while facing away from the batter, thus deceiving a runner. It has nothing to do with the positioning of the batter.

If the ball is live and the batter has one foot in and the other out and the pitcher pitches, it's a quick pitch, with runners that's a balk. This is why I don't use the hand stop sign any more than I have to because it takes all tyoes of plays out and slows the game down.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
If the ball is live and the batter has one foot in and the other out and the pitcher pitches, it's a quick pitch, with runners that's a balk. This is why I don't use the hand stop sign any more than I have to because it takes all tyoes of plays out and slows the game down.

I agree, Michael. I limit time-outs significantly. My post was not intended to endorse that action, but, based on observations, to inquire about the possibility.

I have no doubt Jimmy, but many overuse the mechanic. The remark wasn't directed at you or anybody directly, simply an observation.

Gingerbread Man-

If a batter does something (like step out of the box, get abducted by a UFO, etc.) that causes the pitcher to balk, you don't call a balk on the pitcher.

At least in FED rules.

quote:

Gingerbread Man-

If a batter does something (like step out of the box, get abducted by a UFO, etc.) that causes the pitcher to balk, you don't call a balk on the pitcher.

At least in FED rules.

Never stated such. If a batter steps out of the box causing the pitcher while in his windup to stop or do something funny then "no balk" can be issued as both the pitcher and the batter have become illegal and as such just do it again. But, in the case as mentioned where the batter is calling for time and time hasn't been granted and the pitcher thinking time has been granted stops his pitching motion then....balk, balk balk all day long.

What did the chicken umpire say? Balk balk balk

quote:

Originally posted by Gingerbread Man:
But, in the case as mentioned where the batter is calling for time and time hasn't been granted and the pitcher thinking time has been granted stops his pitching motion then....balk, balk balk all day long.

That is not mentioned in the OP, and if the umpire feels the pitcher's actions was caused by the batter's actions, no balk should be called. This, by practice and training, includes when time was not granted to the batter.

This is not directed at anyone in particular but for purposes of the site. This is High School Baseball that I thought we're discussing. Maybe not. If not then should we not temper our comments with things such as "at the LL level...." or "American Legion..." or "at the MLB/MiLB level....". Calling balks is part of the game. For those of us who do everything from CYO (7th/8th) through Jr. College we recognize that a called balk is different on different levels. At MLB you'll hear "technical balk" and at CYO "he's not deceiving the runner or batter....just screwed up so I'm warning him". I would suggest that when discussing different levels that rule interpretations be qualified. Thoughts?

Perhaps part of the problem is regional. In my area any baseball after 20 is played under OBR with certain modifications, or NCAA with certain modifications. FED disappears over the summer.

quote:

Originally posted by therefump:
This is not directed at anyone in particular but for purposes of the site. This is High School Baseball that I thought we're discussing. Maybe not. If not then should we not temper our comments with things such as "at the LL level...." or "American Legion..." or "at the MLB/MiLB level....". Calling balks is part of the game. For those of us who do everything from CYO (7th/8th) through Jr. College we recognize that a called balk is different on different levels. At MLB you'll hear "technical balk" and at CYO "he's not deceiving the runner or batter....just screwed up so I'm warning him". I would suggest that when discussing different levels that rule interpretations be qualified. Thoughts?

You are correct that it is different in different rule sets and should be qualified in either the question or the answer.
Now, other than Fed and NCAA, most other youth organizations use some form of OBR.

I agree with Jimmy03 that part of the problem is regional plus FED vs. OBR. American Legion and upwards out here is totally OBR. HOWEVER, the age grouping below and sideways (Connie Mac, etc.) determines BALK calls as well as other "interpretations" of the ruleset.

Just my 2 cents but I'd like to see FED rules disappear (just like the DH) with the exception of safety rules. American Legion is excellent with OBR plus safety rules.

Again, I'd like to see qualifications and not what appear to be generalizations at times. You can't apply the rules in MiLB/MLB down to CYO/LL the same and someone unsuspecting might carry down the interpretation to LL or vise versa.

quote:

Originally posted by Gingerbread Man:
[replying to a comment on FED rules] But, in the case as mentioned where the batter is calling for time and time hasn't been granted and the pitcher thinking time has been granted stops his pitching motion then....balk, balk balk all day long.

For FED, it is definitively not a balk.

6-4-2d
1. If the pitcher, with a runner on base, stops or hesitates in his delivery because the batter steps out of the box (a) with one foot or (b) with both feet or (c) holds up his hand to request “Time,” it shall not be a balk. In (a) and (c), there is no penalty on either the batter or the pitcher. The umpire shall call “Time” and begin play anew.....

There's more to this rule involving consequences and penalties, and I suggest you read it. If you don't have the FED Rule and Case books, or haven't studied them, think about confining your posts in this forum to questions rather than opinions. Here's a recommendation: The electronic (PDF) form of the rules allow rapid searching to find the relevant rule and cases, and a non-umpire can download the books by paying a $20 membership fee to NFHS. I was able to find the above quote in less than one minute by searching on "balk". Of course it helped that I already knew the rule existed, and that the word "balk" is contained in the rule.

There are several different parts to this thread, I will try to address the different parts.
The OP asked about a batter not being in the box completely and the pitcher pitching. This is a balk in either OBR or FED. It is odd the BU called this. The PU usually calls this which is why I asked about the PU having his hand up.
Then the batter stepping out was brought up. If the batter does something that causes the pitcher to stop then it's a do over. This is true in both OBR and FED.
The balk rules are a little different between OBR and FED but without going back and rereading both codes, I believe everything that is a balk in OBR is one in FED but FED has a few additional ones thrown in.
The deal with OBR being used at different age levels is another story. In some organizations,LL and CR come to mind, disallow balks below a certain age. CR and Pony have a couple of option ages where you can or can't depending on how you set your league up. If you are working a system that has balks at 9/10 or 11/12, then the rules are same as in pros. How particular you are will depend on age. What I am saying is you have to call the elephant balks no matter the age. But the more technical balks are either call loosely or ignored.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:

The OP asked about a batter not being in the box completely and the pitcher pitching. This is a balk in either OBR or FED.

Michael,

If the Batter is taking signs and not at all paying attention to the pitcher, I have been trained in three codes, for safety sake, not to allow the pitcher to pitch.

I'm not going to be standing there with my hand up, but I will protect a vulnerable batter.

This is different than a quick pitch.

Now, if the batter has ignored instructions to get in the box or is otherwise delaying the game, there is another way to deal with him.

One needn't direct F1 to pitch any more to call a strike for delay. One reason for that is safety.

quote:

For FED, it is definitively not a balk.

6-4-2d
1. If the pitcher, with a runner on base, stops or hesitates in his delivery because the batter steps out of the box (a) with one foot or (b) with both feet or (c) holds up his hand to request “Time,” it shall not be a balk. In (a) and (c), there is no penalty on either the batter or the pitcher. The umpire shall call “Time” and begin play anew.....

There's more to this rule involving consequences and penalties, and I suggest you read it. If you don't have the FED Rule and Case books, or haven't studied them, think about confining your posts in this forum to questions rather than opinions. Here's a recommendation: The electronic (PDF) form of the rules allow rapid searching to find the relevant rule and cases, and a non-umpire can download the books by paying a $20 membership fee to NFHS. I was able to find the above quote in less than one minute by searching on "balk". Of course it helped that I already knew the rule existed, and that the word "balk" is contained in the rule.

Because our league plays by mlb rules, I am most famailiar with them. So, when the pitcher stops his motion with the batter still in the box asking for time and pu hasn't granted time then it is a balk all day long. This is what I was referring to when it happened in our league- it really is a "balk" according to mlb rules as far as I understand it.

GM:

Although the rule to which you are referring (6.02(b) comment) refers to a batter stepping out of the box, neither the MLB interpretation, nor the manner in which MiLb umpires are trained require it.

Both MLB umpires and MiLB umpires will invoke 6.02 (b) comment and rule, "that's nothing" and have both the pitcher and batter start the pitch over with no penalty if the umpire judges that the pitcher's action was the direct result of the batter's action, even verbal whether or not he stepped out of the box.

To do otherwise, it has been ruled, is to penalize the pitcher for the batter causing a "balk."

quote:

GM:

Although the rule to which you are referring (6.02(b) comment) refers to a batter stepping out of the box, neither the MLB interpretation, nor the manner in which MiLb umpires are trained require it.

Both MLB umpires and MiLB umpires will invoke 6.02 (b) comment and rule, "that's nothing" and have both the pitcher and batter start the pitch over with no penalty if the umpire judges that the pitcher's action was the direct result of the batter's action, even verbal whether or not he stepped out of the box.

To do otherwise, it has been ruled, is to penalize the pitcher for the batter causing a "balk."

I'll agree with you on that, it sounds perfectly logical. Thanks for the clarification.

Michael,
Well summarized.

quote:

Originally posted by therefump:
Michael,
Well summarized.

Thank-you.
We had a team years ago that had a coach trying to circunvent the rule. He would have his batter, just as the oitcher started his motion, step forward and agressively raise their hand toward the pitcher and yell TIME! He was shocked when I didallowed the balk and warned him to discontinue if he wanted to stick around.