Can someone tell me who was listed as the top 12-25 year olds on Baseball America. Thanks
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*bump*
I'd like to know as well.
I'd like to know as well.
Top ranked 12 yr old
Delino Deshields OF College Park Georgia
Honorable Mention
Michael Gill Rhp/OF Flower Mound Texas
Kalen Pimentel Rhp/C Rancho Buena Vista CA
All Stars by Position
C Michael Memea Hawaii
1b Kewby Meyer Hawaii
2b Turner Gill Madras,Or
3b Justin Hedges CA Oc
SS AJ Cole AL
LF Josh Anderson Ca Redwings
CF Delino Deshields
RF Bryce Harper LV,NV
DH Erick Cruz SoCal
P Michael Gill
P Christian Lopes SoCal
P Kalen Pimentel
Top ranked 13 yr. old
Vinny Ponce C Huntington Beach CA
Honorable Mention
Callan Dawson rhp/of Carlsbad, Ca
Chase Butler ss Rome GA
Top ranked 14 yr. old
Miles Head c/1b Fayetteville, GA
Honorable Mention
Michael Broad Boynton Beach, FL
Jacob Mayers 1b/of Mechanicsville,VA
All Stars by positiion
C Luke Bailey GA Roadrunners
1b Miles Head GA Roadrunners
2b Ryan Lashley FL
3b Bo Reeder Tenn.
ss Michael Broad
lf Brennan May GA
cf Blaine Dalton Missouri
rf Jacob Mayers
dh Brock Stassi Starmakers CA
p Tony Calhoun CA
p Ryan Klem Chandler, AZ
p Trevor Walch OK.
Top Ranked 15 yr old
Robert Stock Agoura,CA
Honorable Mention
Freddie Freeman of Villa Park, CA
Tim Melville rhp Wentzville,MO
Top Ranked 16 yr. old
Cody Johnson 1b/of Lynnhaven,FL
Honorable Mention
Elvin Andrus ss Braves
Blake Beavan rhp/3b Irving,TX
All Stars by position
c Danny Ram FL
1b Cody Johsnon FL
2b Christian Rodriguez Utah
3b Matt Dominguez Chatsworth, CA
ss Elvin Andrus
lf Jose Tabata
cf Michael Main
rf John Tolisano FL
p Blake Beavan Dallas
p Erik Goeddel Norcal
p Josh Smoker Georgia
Top ranked 17 yr.old
Brett Anderson lhp Stillwater OK
Honorable Mention
Justin Upton ss Chesapeake, VA
Jordan Walden rhp Mansfield, TX
Top Ranked 18yr. old
Andrew McCutchen of Pirates
Honorable Mention
Colby Rasmus of Cardinals
Chris Volstad rhp Marlins
Delino Deshields OF College Park Georgia
Honorable Mention
Michael Gill Rhp/OF Flower Mound Texas
Kalen Pimentel Rhp/C Rancho Buena Vista CA
All Stars by Position
C Michael Memea Hawaii
1b Kewby Meyer Hawaii
2b Turner Gill Madras,Or
3b Justin Hedges CA Oc
SS AJ Cole AL
LF Josh Anderson Ca Redwings
CF Delino Deshields
RF Bryce Harper LV,NV
DH Erick Cruz SoCal
P Michael Gill
P Christian Lopes SoCal
P Kalen Pimentel
Top ranked 13 yr. old
Vinny Ponce C Huntington Beach CA
Honorable Mention
Callan Dawson rhp/of Carlsbad, Ca
Chase Butler ss Rome GA
Top ranked 14 yr. old
Miles Head c/1b Fayetteville, GA
Honorable Mention
Michael Broad Boynton Beach, FL
Jacob Mayers 1b/of Mechanicsville,VA
All Stars by positiion
C Luke Bailey GA Roadrunners
1b Miles Head GA Roadrunners
2b Ryan Lashley FL
3b Bo Reeder Tenn.
ss Michael Broad
lf Brennan May GA
cf Blaine Dalton Missouri
rf Jacob Mayers
dh Brock Stassi Starmakers CA
p Tony Calhoun CA
p Ryan Klem Chandler, AZ
p Trevor Walch OK.
Top Ranked 15 yr old
Robert Stock Agoura,CA
Honorable Mention
Freddie Freeman of Villa Park, CA
Tim Melville rhp Wentzville,MO
Top Ranked 16 yr. old
Cody Johnson 1b/of Lynnhaven,FL
Honorable Mention
Elvin Andrus ss Braves
Blake Beavan rhp/3b Irving,TX
All Stars by position
c Danny Ram FL
1b Cody Johsnon FL
2b Christian Rodriguez Utah
3b Matt Dominguez Chatsworth, CA
ss Elvin Andrus
lf Jose Tabata
cf Michael Main
rf John Tolisano FL
p Blake Beavan Dallas
p Erik Goeddel Norcal
p Josh Smoker Georgia
Top ranked 17 yr.old
Brett Anderson lhp Stillwater OK
Honorable Mention
Justin Upton ss Chesapeake, VA
Jordan Walden rhp Mansfield, TX
Top Ranked 18yr. old
Andrew McCutchen of Pirates
Honorable Mention
Colby Rasmus of Cardinals
Chris Volstad rhp Marlins
How does BA rank kids who have not even gotten to HS yet? Are these store bought ratings?
cong---
You beat me to the question...pretty soon we'll be "ranking" T-ball players. Top 12-year-olds?!You've got to be kidding me!
You beat me to the question...pretty soon we'll be "ranking" T-ball players. Top 12-year-olds?!You've got to be kidding me!
and then there are the T Ball Travel teams
BBAmerica obviously hasn't scouted Cole Minor, 12 y.o. from Dog Holler, WVa-just up the river from Friendly, WVa and across the river from Fly, Ohio. Maybe the ferry wasn't runnin' when the scouts were in that area.
I can say that every player listed in the 15 year old and older groups is for real! We have seen every one of them, most several times.
Guess I don't really care, but isn't that list for Baseball America "subscribers" only?
I know it seems harmless, but I was just wondering if it's actually OK to post the list.
Anyway, I for one don't see a problem recognizing young players. I'm sure they are all very talented for their age group. Some will probably become high level prospects and some might not. Those that do not become big prospects will always have this honor attached to them. Seems like a harmless, if not a good thing.
Often people think that just because a 12 year old receives an honor, it somehow harms him. Personally I don't understand that. If you look at past players honored at young ages by Allan Simpson (Baseball America) who has always done this list, you will find it amazingly accurate. Delmon Young and a long list of "real" prospects have been honored at a very young age in the past.
That said, the younger they are, the harder it is to select the best. It's kind of fun to follow though. And as far as selecting the best at various ages... isn't that done all the time, in other ways, all across the nation.
My vote for top 2 year old in the USA... Ethan Ford
Guess I don't really care, but isn't that list for Baseball America "subscribers" only?
I know it seems harmless, but I was just wondering if it's actually OK to post the list.
Anyway, I for one don't see a problem recognizing young players. I'm sure they are all very talented for their age group. Some will probably become high level prospects and some might not. Those that do not become big prospects will always have this honor attached to them. Seems like a harmless, if not a good thing.
Often people think that just because a 12 year old receives an honor, it somehow harms him. Personally I don't understand that. If you look at past players honored at young ages by Allan Simpson (Baseball America) who has always done this list, you will find it amazingly accurate. Delmon Young and a long list of "real" prospects have been honored at a very young age in the past.
That said, the younger they are, the harder it is to select the best. It's kind of fun to follow though. And as far as selecting the best at various ages... isn't that done all the time, in other ways, all across the nation.
My vote for top 2 year old in the USA... Ethan Ford
Jerry, I don't see any harm in rating the players either but I think you have to admit that 12 years old is pushing the envelope a bit.
I know for a fact that the studs in the Dr. Phillips' LL here in Orlando did not even make their HS team. Two of the biggest, tallest kids in the league with the most velocity and most power-never grew an inch after age 12 and were passed by by most of the other players.
Besides, to pick ONE boy over thousands and thousands is
virtually impossible in the LL ranks.
I know for a fact that the studs in the Dr. Phillips' LL here in Orlando did not even make their HS team. Two of the biggest, tallest kids in the league with the most velocity and most power-never grew an inch after age 12 and were passed by by most of the other players.
Besides, to pick ONE boy over thousands and thousands is
virtually impossible in the LL ranks.
quote:Originally posted by Moc1:
Jerry, I don't see any harm in rating the players either but I think you have to admit that 12 years old is pushing the envelope a bit.
I certainly didn't mean to say there was any harm in this.. just how can they rate these kids. There are probably 10 times more 12 year olds playing ball then there are 15 year olds... it's the nature of the beast
quote:Originally posted by Moc1:
I know for a fact that the studs in the Dr. Phillips' LL here in Orlando did not even make their HS team. Two of the biggest, tallest kids in the league with the most velocity and most power-never grew an inch after age 12 and were passed by by most of the other players.
It's amazing how many early pubecent 6 foot - 12 year olds are studs in LL and never play again as the other kids catch up!
Our team actually saw or played against many of the boys listed in the 12 yo group up at Cooperstown. They could play ball, but I saw some kids who were as good if not better who are not on the list.... That is why I ask how the list was created?
15 is HS. At that age I can believe there they are actually being seen by someone who can actually gauge them. 12? I just don't get it.
I would hope that BA doesn’t put too much emphasis on reporting the “talents” of a 12 yr old baseball player. If they do, it does a couple of things. Number one it reinforces that BA is doing this for money. Yes, I have known this all along they do this for money but I wanted to believe they had a write up about my son because they were impressed, not because they wanted me to subscribe (which I do). 
Secondly a 12 year old baseball player or his parents should not be concerned with a BA rating. If they establish a 12 year old rating system, parents will begin to focus on that. Instead, parents and young players need to focus on the game of baseball and what it SHOULD be to a 12 year old player. In my opinion there has been an established path for a young player to follow while he’s learning and enjoying the game. It starts while he’s still and infant on the floor with Mom and Dad and moves to the back yard at a very young age. It becomes loosely organized in his community and migrates to high school and beyond. Select and travel ball was first on the scene to modify the direction of youth baseball. Initially it was a very good opportunity to give the talented few some additional challenges. But even that has changed. Travel baseball has exploded to the point that it has destroyed some of the basic values of youth baseball; especially for the very young players. (That’s another topic). It’s important for young players to establish some basic goals as they pass through the early years of youth baseball. In my opinion, when a well respected national publication like Baseball America begins to recognize individual leaders at age 12, they change the parent's focus and these parents in turn change the player's goals. Suddenly the goal of the young player is changed from learning the team concept of baseball to one of seeking individual attention. I’m all for recognizing national leaders when it becomes obvious they have become national leaders. I’ll be the first to suggest that every young baseball player needs to have a goal and a dream of playing in the big leagues and look up to those that have already made it. Let’s keep it that way and NOT allow Baseball America’s list to become a goal for a twelve year old player.
Fungo
Lists are meaningless unless your son is on the list.....or.... you’re the one marketing the list.
Secondly a 12 year old baseball player or his parents should not be concerned with a BA rating. If they establish a 12 year old rating system, parents will begin to focus on that. Instead, parents and young players need to focus on the game of baseball and what it SHOULD be to a 12 year old player. In my opinion there has been an established path for a young player to follow while he’s learning and enjoying the game. It starts while he’s still and infant on the floor with Mom and Dad and moves to the back yard at a very young age. It becomes loosely organized in his community and migrates to high school and beyond. Select and travel ball was first on the scene to modify the direction of youth baseball. Initially it was a very good opportunity to give the talented few some additional challenges. But even that has changed. Travel baseball has exploded to the point that it has destroyed some of the basic values of youth baseball; especially for the very young players. (That’s another topic). It’s important for young players to establish some basic goals as they pass through the early years of youth baseball. In my opinion, when a well respected national publication like Baseball America begins to recognize individual leaders at age 12, they change the parent's focus and these parents in turn change the player's goals. Suddenly the goal of the young player is changed from learning the team concept of baseball to one of seeking individual attention. I’m all for recognizing national leaders when it becomes obvious they have become national leaders. I’ll be the first to suggest that every young baseball player needs to have a goal and a dream of playing in the big leagues and look up to those that have already made it. Let’s keep it that way and NOT allow Baseball America’s list to become a goal for a twelve year old player.
Fungo
Lists are meaningless unless your son is on the list.....or.... you’re the one marketing the list.
The Baseball for the Ages is not a ranking. It congratulates those who had a good year in baseball.
It is too early for anyone to rank 12 year olds, but that's not what the list is. Its a list of players that performed exceptually well that summer.
You can see that for 12 and 14 year olds there's an allstar team. In major league baseball, the best players don't always make the allstar team. In theory (although it doesn't always work out this way) those that had a great first half make the allstar team. It seems like the same idea goes for the Baseball for the Ages for the younger kids. Baseball America is not predicting who will be better than who come draft time in six years. Baseball America is just putting out a list of players who had a great year and are really good for their age.
I don't believe that they came up with the names by scouting them, but by looking at a list of achievements (of course verifying it with sources eg. coaches).
Finally, it's fun to look at what these young players can do and how much they stand out among competition.
It is too early for anyone to rank 12 year olds, but that's not what the list is. Its a list of players that performed exceptually well that summer.
You can see that for 12 and 14 year olds there's an allstar team. In major league baseball, the best players don't always make the allstar team. In theory (although it doesn't always work out this way) those that had a great first half make the allstar team. It seems like the same idea goes for the Baseball for the Ages for the younger kids. Baseball America is not predicting who will be better than who come draft time in six years. Baseball America is just putting out a list of players who had a great year and are really good for their age.
I don't believe that they came up with the names by scouting them, but by looking at a list of achievements (of course verifying it with sources eg. coaches).
Finally, it's fun to look at what these young players can do and how much they stand out among competition.
Fungo, Once again your good common sense shows up in a great post. The "team" is going down the drain and the "I" is where the kids are headed. I subscribe to BA too, but rating young kids is not only impossible, it is is very selfish too.
quote:the top 12-25 year olds on Baseball America
quote:Top ranked 12 yr old
quote:Top ranked 13 yr. old
quote:Top ranked 14 yr. old
quote:Top Ranked 15 yr old
quote:Top Ranked 16 yr. old
quote:Top ranked 17 yr.old
quote:Top Ranked 18yr. old
quote:The Baseball for the Ages is not a ranking.
tbirds, your observation throught those rose colored glasses is pretty RANK
So, is BA, and PGStaff, you are too into ranking to know anymore.
Just my rank opinion.........
I believe you're quoting JDsDad and not Baseball America.
Guess I see both sides of this debate.
BA surely does include 12 year olds to create interest (customers) and it works. 12 year olds do not play at regulation distances and we all know things can change a lot in just a year or two.
Our business revolves around players 15 to 18 (high school age), but we see a few very talented 14 year olds along the way. Most of these (most talented) 14 year olds became top prospects by age 17/18. Here are a few that we had seen at 14 who are hard to argue with.
Delmon Young, Lastings Milledge, Chris Lubanski, Ryan Sweeney, Jeff Clement, Zach Greinke, Justin Upton, etc. Some of those mentioned above we saw at 12 years old. We “knew” they were going to be very good. To be honest, there are also some who did not progress as well.
Not to argue the point, but notice the names above are not pitchers… except for Zach Greinke, who was a very talented position player as a young player. 12 year old pitchers are impossible to project, in my estimation. In fact, nearly all those above were excellent pitchers when they were younger. Jeff Clement played and pitched in the Little League World Series as a 12 year old.
I do think it is virtually impossible to rate someone the very best 12 year old. I do think Baseball America does it to draw interest, but does a good job. I don’t think these players will automatically be the best in 6 years, though they might be! As much as I respect others opinions who disagree, I don’t see that much wrong with it.
I do see it drawing attention to 12 year old baseball. However, is it Baseball America who draws the “most” attention to this age group? Or could it be National Television? We all know that there is much more, and some claim better, baseball played than LL at that age group. Is it good or bad that LL gets all the attention? Is it good or bad for the game of baseball or the young players? Or does it help create interest and promote the game we love?
Don’t lots of the top level teams in every age group select or rate who the better players are? Aren’t there all-tournament teams and MVP choices at many tournaments? Aren’t there all-star teams that in fact are rating players?
Does rating a young player the best really ruin the team concept of baseball? It shouldn’t if parents and coaches are good leaders! Does a player who is overlooked at age 12 lose any opportunity to become the best?
Allan Simpson calls us every year for information on this very popular article. We gladly give him information on 15 and older players. When asked about 12 or 13 and even sometimes 14 year olds we tell him “we have no idea and can’t help you there”
Though we do keep track of who was named for future reference. It really is amazing how something that seems so impossible has turned out relatively accurate. One only has to look over the past selections to realize this.
I do understand the points made by “fungo”, “BBscout” and others. They are very valid concerns by people that have earned the utmost respect.
I too, don’t think 12 or 13 year olds “need” to be rated, as it is nearly impossible. However, knowing some of these young players are not going to develop into highest level prospects… What is so wrong at recognizing them now, while they are some of the better players among their peers. Some of these young kids will someday be able to tell their grand children that they were once named one of the best at age 12. The others who truly become the best at age 17 and above, don’t need anything to fall back on.
Also, find it hard to believe that any 12 year old player is focused on being named Baseball America’s top 12 year old in “Baseball For The Ages”. If they are, forget everything written here, I join those who are against it!
By the way, just recently saw an old TV amateur show where Christina Aguilera was unbelievable at age 10 or 12. Don’t think she won the contest! Too bad for her!
Finally… Can’t tell you how many times I’ve told parents of baseball players… It’s not very important how good you are at age 12 or 13… What’s important is how good you are at age 17 and beyond! I’d like to think most everyone could agree with that.
BA surely does include 12 year olds to create interest (customers) and it works. 12 year olds do not play at regulation distances and we all know things can change a lot in just a year or two.
Our business revolves around players 15 to 18 (high school age), but we see a few very talented 14 year olds along the way. Most of these (most talented) 14 year olds became top prospects by age 17/18. Here are a few that we had seen at 14 who are hard to argue with.
Delmon Young, Lastings Milledge, Chris Lubanski, Ryan Sweeney, Jeff Clement, Zach Greinke, Justin Upton, etc. Some of those mentioned above we saw at 12 years old. We “knew” they were going to be very good. To be honest, there are also some who did not progress as well.
Not to argue the point, but notice the names above are not pitchers… except for Zach Greinke, who was a very talented position player as a young player. 12 year old pitchers are impossible to project, in my estimation. In fact, nearly all those above were excellent pitchers when they were younger. Jeff Clement played and pitched in the Little League World Series as a 12 year old.
I do think it is virtually impossible to rate someone the very best 12 year old. I do think Baseball America does it to draw interest, but does a good job. I don’t think these players will automatically be the best in 6 years, though they might be! As much as I respect others opinions who disagree, I don’t see that much wrong with it.
I do see it drawing attention to 12 year old baseball. However, is it Baseball America who draws the “most” attention to this age group? Or could it be National Television? We all know that there is much more, and some claim better, baseball played than LL at that age group. Is it good or bad that LL gets all the attention? Is it good or bad for the game of baseball or the young players? Or does it help create interest and promote the game we love?
Don’t lots of the top level teams in every age group select or rate who the better players are? Aren’t there all-tournament teams and MVP choices at many tournaments? Aren’t there all-star teams that in fact are rating players?
Does rating a young player the best really ruin the team concept of baseball? It shouldn’t if parents and coaches are good leaders! Does a player who is overlooked at age 12 lose any opportunity to become the best?
Allan Simpson calls us every year for information on this very popular article. We gladly give him information on 15 and older players. When asked about 12 or 13 and even sometimes 14 year olds we tell him “we have no idea and can’t help you there”
Though we do keep track of who was named for future reference. It really is amazing how something that seems so impossible has turned out relatively accurate. One only has to look over the past selections to realize this.
I do understand the points made by “fungo”, “BBscout” and others. They are very valid concerns by people that have earned the utmost respect.
I too, don’t think 12 or 13 year olds “need” to be rated, as it is nearly impossible. However, knowing some of these young players are not going to develop into highest level prospects… What is so wrong at recognizing them now, while they are some of the better players among their peers. Some of these young kids will someday be able to tell their grand children that they were once named one of the best at age 12. The others who truly become the best at age 17 and above, don’t need anything to fall back on.
Also, find it hard to believe that any 12 year old player is focused on being named Baseball America’s top 12 year old in “Baseball For The Ages”. If they are, forget everything written here, I join those who are against it!
By the way, just recently saw an old TV amateur show where Christina Aguilera was unbelievable at age 10 or 12. Don’t think she won the contest! Too bad for her!
Finally… Can’t tell you how many times I’ve told parents of baseball players… It’s not very important how good you are at age 12 or 13… What’s important is how good you are at age 17 and beyond! I’d like to think most everyone could agree with that.
Fungo and PG,
As usual good posts.
Things have changed in the 8 years since my son was 12. Just last weeknd I sat with some folks who told me there were curve ball throwers in his son's 11 year old LL team. And they use guns all of the time for the pitchers. This was unheard of when my son was 12.
I never even thought about reading an issue of BA until my son reached his junior year in HS.I enjoy reading the content and will admit that I get a thrill when son is mentioned or someone else is that I know personally or have been following.
I do not really follow the up and coming 12 - 14 year olds who play LL baseball, however, I did enjoy reading about these kids personal accomplishments. The way I see it, these talented kids most likely will be tomorrow's stars, regardless of what we think of their performances at 12 or 14. On another thread they spoke about a player mentioned in a negative light (his arm will be gone when it really counts, etc.) That may or may not be so, and as an educated parent it's up for you to decide what your son is and is not capable of doing, not someone elses. I don't see the purpose of bringing that up regarding these "rankings".
The only problem I see is that these days many parents become over anxious when they hear or read about a player that may be better than their son. They immediately say, oh I have seen him play, he's no better than anyone else and there are many kids in the country who should have made that list, blah, blah. Then all of a sudden, the player shows up at every showcase, every tournament, every scouting event there is, as the parent feels this is the key to his success. That's not the answer to being the best.
The fact of the matter is they might have seen better players out there, but for now, for our enjoyment, BA has provided us with a glimpse of possible MLB players.
PG,
We won't tell anyone you follow Christina Aguilera
As usual good posts.
Things have changed in the 8 years since my son was 12. Just last weeknd I sat with some folks who told me there were curve ball throwers in his son's 11 year old LL team. And they use guns all of the time for the pitchers. This was unheard of when my son was 12.
I never even thought about reading an issue of BA until my son reached his junior year in HS.I enjoy reading the content and will admit that I get a thrill when son is mentioned or someone else is that I know personally or have been following.
I do not really follow the up and coming 12 - 14 year olds who play LL baseball, however, I did enjoy reading about these kids personal accomplishments. The way I see it, these talented kids most likely will be tomorrow's stars, regardless of what we think of their performances at 12 or 14. On another thread they spoke about a player mentioned in a negative light (his arm will be gone when it really counts, etc.) That may or may not be so, and as an educated parent it's up for you to decide what your son is and is not capable of doing, not someone elses. I don't see the purpose of bringing that up regarding these "rankings".
The only problem I see is that these days many parents become over anxious when they hear or read about a player that may be better than their son. They immediately say, oh I have seen him play, he's no better than anyone else and there are many kids in the country who should have made that list, blah, blah. Then all of a sudden, the player shows up at every showcase, every tournament, every scouting event there is, as the parent feels this is the key to his success. That's not the answer to being the best.
The fact of the matter is they might have seen better players out there, but for now, for our enjoyment, BA has provided us with a glimpse of possible MLB players.
PG,
We won't tell anyone you follow Christina Aguilera
tbirds ...
You are correct, the BA article does NOT use the term "top ranked" but this is a direct quote from their preface to the list (bold emphasis is mine):
The whole concept of this annual tradition of BA's has bothered me for quite some time. Although I agree that there may be no harm done to the player in terms of reading about himself in a publication that is so nationally renowned as BA, I still wonder what good purpose it serves at all. Why should just a few players nationwide be recognized like this? PGStaff has asked about MVP's of tournaments and All Star teams ... but are those recognitions at the local and tournament level really comparable to being mentioned in a national publication like BA? I don't think so.
Also, many of these players are going to be the center of attention in the future and I think we have all seen that a lot of young guys can't handle the "PR" ... it does affect their approach to their teams and their game, including having a ton of pressure put on them to stay at the top of their game at all times. Personally I think they should be using this as a learning experience ... and realizing that sometimes they will learn more from their mistakes than when they are on top of their game.
Also, based on their apparent selection process, I would suggest that there are a lot of younger players who are overlooked becuase they cannot participate in the travel tournaments for various reasons. Personally, I think it is silly to even start watching the kids at this age ... there are too too many variables for anyone to identify a 12 or 13 or even 14 year old as a "winner".
JMHO ... and it isn't because my kid was never on the list, even if he too pitched in the LLWS
You are correct, the BA article does NOT use the term "top ranked" but this is a direct quote from their preface to the list (bold emphasis is mine):
quote:Winners in the younger age groups are based more on potential and performance at major national and international competitions. Players in the 12-14 year age groups were selected in conjunction with Illinois-based Travel Ball Select organization.
The whole concept of this annual tradition of BA's has bothered me for quite some time. Although I agree that there may be no harm done to the player in terms of reading about himself in a publication that is so nationally renowned as BA, I still wonder what good purpose it serves at all. Why should just a few players nationwide be recognized like this? PGStaff has asked about MVP's of tournaments and All Star teams ... but are those recognitions at the local and tournament level really comparable to being mentioned in a national publication like BA? I don't think so.
Also, many of these players are going to be the center of attention in the future and I think we have all seen that a lot of young guys can't handle the "PR" ... it does affect their approach to their teams and their game, including having a ton of pressure put on them to stay at the top of their game at all times. Personally I think they should be using this as a learning experience ... and realizing that sometimes they will learn more from their mistakes than when they are on top of their game.
Also, based on their apparent selection process, I would suggest that there are a lot of younger players who are overlooked becuase they cannot participate in the travel tournaments for various reasons. Personally, I think it is silly to even start watching the kids at this age ... there are too too many variables for anyone to identify a 12 or 13 or even 14 year old as a "winner".
JMHO ... and it isn't because my kid was never on the list, even if he too pitched in the LLWS
quote:So, is BA, and PGStaff, you are too into ranking to know anymore.
Please, though I don't think that was meant as a "slap" in the face. I am human and do take it as such.
Like to think I'm into "know" much more than just "rankings". I have coached in college, have been a MLB scout, have had two son's who played in college, have had two sons play professionally, have had one son who played in the big leagues, have written instructional manuals and now do what we do now for 13 years. I'd like to think my interests go far beyond "rankings"!
I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with my opinion. In fact, have been known to change my opinion often. Nothing I say should ever be considered the Gospel.
The mind here is completely open about most everything. Including Baseball For The Ages! By the way, the word RANKINGS is not used by Allan Simpson. In fact, a couple of those honored in the older age groups are not the highest ranked players by us. So you could say, we don't even agree on some of the players.
Regarding rankings, I absolutely hate doing them. They do create lots of interest though. Rating players can not be avoided. If we don't do it someone else will. It's done in every sport!
There are internal rankings done that the general public does not see. The scouting bureau grades and thus ranks players all the time.
At one point last year, MLB Scouting Bureau gave the "highest" grade of anyone (college or high scool) on their list "65" to a pitcher from Puerto Rico. We saw the pitcher more than once and did not rank him among the top 100 prospects and had several others from Puerto Rico ranked ahead of him. So there were two views for anyone interested.
In the June draft this highest ranked player went in the 19th round pick number 578. Several others from PR went before him. To be fair, sometimes we are the ones who are wrong. However, we are very proud of our track record. People argue the rankings right up to the draft and then everything gets real quiet after the results each and every year.
If you as a member of the public would prefer ranking of players be ignored, I can understand that. However, the truth is there is evidence that thousands of people want it. I'm not one of those who want them, but I do believe they create interest and serve a purpose.
This is regarding rankings of older players, not 12 year olds. The topic of identifying top 12 year olds is one I'm not sure about. Though I am sure those identified are not complaining!
I think those that think it's bad honoring 12 year olds may very well be right. I guess I just don't see the harm that others do. As always... capable of changing mind.
Our mission statement states... To promote baseball at all levels to the best of our ability. That will remain our major goal!
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
The topic of identifying top 12 year olds is one I'm not sure about. Though I am sure those identified are not complaining!
I think those that think it's bad honoring 12 year olds may very well be right. I guess I just don't see the harm that others do. As always... capable of changing mind.
Well, I can't exactly put my finger on why, but I don't like the idea of ranking 12-year olds, nor 13 or 14-year olds either. It just doesn't set right with me...maybe because it creates expectations too young...chips away a little more at being a "kid."
As a parent of a 12-year old, who by the way is a pretty darn good ballplayer, I have to say that I would far prefer he NOT be ranked at this point in time than to be ranked. I like the innocence he still owns and the fact that no one is at a ballgame pointing at him and saying "that kid is the nth ranked player by Baseball America."
He's still a little kid who asked his mother the other night if she'd be upset if he danced with a girl. I like that he's wondering about those things rather than this.
I don't know why it bothers people about ranking players at a young age. Everytime your kid steps on the field he is being judged.
By the way my son never went to a PG evet but several of his freinds did and many are in the minors. We always wanted to go but were too caught up in his games. He has pitched against several high ranked players and enjoys the challenge. It helps him rank himself. One time he was throwing live batting practice and knew the guy that just got drafted 94th was thare and asked to face him. It was a challenge to see were he stacked up.
We have Bob Elliote rank players for the draft. Sometimes you got to give yourself a shake when you see the list but its interesting.
By the way my son never went to a PG evet but several of his freinds did and many are in the minors. We always wanted to go but were too caught up in his games. He has pitched against several high ranked players and enjoys the challenge. It helps him rank himself. One time he was throwing live batting practice and knew the guy that just got drafted 94th was thare and asked to face him. It was a challenge to see were he stacked up.
We have Bob Elliote rank players for the draft. Sometimes you got to give yourself a shake when you see the list but its interesting.
Rankings are no more than a snapshot in time. Players progress and digress. Roger Clemens was denied a 4 year contract in 1996 because he was on the decline. I guess ranking is subjective. I think he led the NL in ERA this year, three teams later.
Rankings, like college team message boards is probably best ignored by players and their folks. Play the game, watch the game, enjoy the game.
I have never talked with a dad happy with the ranking, but I never talked with #1's dad.
Rankings, like college team message boards is probably best ignored by players and their folks. Play the game, watch the game, enjoy the game.
I have never talked with a dad happy with the ranking, but I never talked with #1's dad.
"top players in each age group" and "winners" to me mean they have selected their opinion as to best player. Quibbling over the word "rank" is really not the issue.
I really could not care less if BA wants to rate 6 year olds if they want to. They are
in the business to generate a profit and they probably could bring in some more revenue.
That being said, I have an opinion(and that's all it is) about naming the "winner" in the 12 year old category. I think it's laughable and an impossibility to pick ONE player as the winner. They would have more credibility to me if they would just say-"Here's a list of some of the top 12 year olds that WE KNOW ABOUT across the country."
And leave it at that. Why does everything have to be #1??
BTW young kids will only let these "rankings" affect their egos if the parents allow it. Again JMHO.
I really could not care less if BA wants to rate 6 year olds if they want to. They are
in the business to generate a profit and they probably could bring in some more revenue.
That being said, I have an opinion(and that's all it is) about naming the "winner" in the 12 year old category. I think it's laughable and an impossibility to pick ONE player as the winner. They would have more credibility to me if they would just say-"Here's a list of some of the top 12 year olds that WE KNOW ABOUT across the country."
And leave it at that. Why does everything have to be #1??
BTW young kids will only let these "rankings" affect their egos if the parents allow it. Again JMHO.
First, my apologies, to tbirds, I did quote JDsDad, where I did assume incorrectly, the article was apparently pasted from Baseball America.
But, the subject is still ranking, even if those words weren't used, my thoughts on the subject are still the same.
I did think about the irony of a post saying that ranking was NOT the subject and the word "ranking" seemed to appear in every subtitle of the article.
And that was my point, that ranking is the subject no matter how subtley written.
It was a litte slap, PGStaff, and you took it exactly the way I expected.
"Maybe we need to think about this a little."
I didn't think you did. And I know full well, that you are capable of changing your mind.
Now read justbaseball's eloquent post and I won't have to cut and paste it into this one.
And, to help give justbaseball's post more credibility, my two son's are not twelve. One is an "unranked" high school baseball player, and the other is a Big 12 conference "unranked" and never "ranked" D1 player.
The rankings create unrealistic expectations of the ranked players, at any age.
The rankings create unrealistic expectations and disappointmenet in FAR MORE unranked players, at any age.
Especially at 12.
But, the subject is still ranking, even if those words weren't used, my thoughts on the subject are still the same.
I did think about the irony of a post saying that ranking was NOT the subject and the word "ranking" seemed to appear in every subtitle of the article.
And that was my point, that ranking is the subject no matter how subtley written.
It was a litte slap, PGStaff, and you took it exactly the way I expected.
"Maybe we need to think about this a little."
quote:Regarding rankings, I absolutely hate doing them. They do create lots of interest though.
quote:The topic of identifying top 12 year olds is one I'm not sure about. Though I am sure those identified are not complaining!
I think those that think it's bad honoring 12 year olds may very well be right.I guess I just don't see the harm that others do. As always... capable of changing mind.quote:
I didn't think you did. And I know full well, that you are capable of changing your mind.
Now read justbaseball's eloquent post and I won't have to cut and paste it into this one.
And, to help give justbaseball's post more credibility, my two son's are not twelve. One is an "unranked" high school baseball player, and the other is a Big 12 conference "unranked" and never "ranked" D1 player.
The rankings create unrealistic expectations of the ranked players, at any age.
The rankings create unrealistic expectations and disappointmenet in FAR MORE unranked players, at any age.
Especially at 12.
FormerObserver,
I have always enjoyed your posts over the years. Always had the utmost respect for your opinions.
The fact that you actually intended it to be a “slap” is somewhat disappointing.
I have tried to listen to everyone’s point of view, without giving out any “slaps”. In fact, I’ve stated I’m not necessarily sure I’m correct. Perhaps my previous posts should be dissected “completely”. Just not sure a “slap” was appropriate or justified.
As we don’t “rank” 12 year olds, I don’t have anything more than an opinion, the same as everyone else.
Regarding the claims above, they are no more than someone’s opinions (yours).
In my experience... Highly ranked players already have high expectations. If a player allows disappointment of being unranked stop him from reaching his goals, he probably doesn’t have what it takes. I could name many ranked and unranked players who have overcome these unreal expectations and disappointment. It sounds like your son is one of them!
The paranoia in me is sending signals that this is somewhat of a personal issue for some reason.
I’ve read the previous posts and stand by every word! By the way, there are some who have posted here who have had highly ranked sons including justbaseball who you have mentioned. I fully understand and can appreciate the thinking behind the thoughts regarding their 12 year old son.
By the way, neither of my sons were ever listed in any rankings as amateurs. However there has and will always be all-conference, all-state, all-region, all-american, etc. lists. Are these not a form of rankings? Should this practice be stopped? Should Collegiate Baseball, Baseball America, USA Today, Perfect Game, USA Baseball, and many others quit doing this and keep high school baseball out of the news.
In case others haven’t noticed the top players are a hot topic on this site and elsewhere. Others may see rankings as unfair, we call it promoting high school baseball.
No list is absolutely correct. There will always be lists! There are people who make out lists without ever seeing the players. We see over 20,000 players each year including most all the very best. That is what the record shows!
If I thought we were harming the young players or hurting baseball, we would give it up immediately! Then there would only be those lists that are produced by those who don’t actually see many players.
I have always enjoyed your posts over the years. Always had the utmost respect for your opinions.
The fact that you actually intended it to be a “slap” is somewhat disappointing.
I have tried to listen to everyone’s point of view, without giving out any “slaps”. In fact, I’ve stated I’m not necessarily sure I’m correct. Perhaps my previous posts should be dissected “completely”. Just not sure a “slap” was appropriate or justified.
quote:The rankings create unrealistic expectations of the ranked players, at any age.
The rankings create unrealistic expectations and disappointmenet in FAR MORE unranked players, at any age.
As we don’t “rank” 12 year olds, I don’t have anything more than an opinion, the same as everyone else.
Regarding the claims above, they are no more than someone’s opinions (yours).
In my experience... Highly ranked players already have high expectations. If a player allows disappointment of being unranked stop him from reaching his goals, he probably doesn’t have what it takes. I could name many ranked and unranked players who have overcome these unreal expectations and disappointment. It sounds like your son is one of them!
The paranoia in me is sending signals that this is somewhat of a personal issue for some reason.
I’ve read the previous posts and stand by every word! By the way, there are some who have posted here who have had highly ranked sons including justbaseball who you have mentioned. I fully understand and can appreciate the thinking behind the thoughts regarding their 12 year old son.
By the way, neither of my sons were ever listed in any rankings as amateurs. However there has and will always be all-conference, all-state, all-region, all-american, etc. lists. Are these not a form of rankings? Should this practice be stopped? Should Collegiate Baseball, Baseball America, USA Today, Perfect Game, USA Baseball, and many others quit doing this and keep high school baseball out of the news.
In case others haven’t noticed the top players are a hot topic on this site and elsewhere. Others may see rankings as unfair, we call it promoting high school baseball.
No list is absolutely correct. There will always be lists! There are people who make out lists without ever seeing the players. We see over 20,000 players each year including most all the very best. That is what the record shows!
If I thought we were harming the young players or hurting baseball, we would give it up immediately! Then there would only be those lists that are produced by those who don’t actually see many players.
OK... Enough slaps, intentional or not!
LL Baseball is a time for fun and for learing the life-lessons involved in being part of a team. I see 3 issues with ranking players so young:
1. You're teaching kids that self-promotion comes before team. Being the winner of a game or tournament used to the ultimate goal.
2. You're misleading a young player into thinking he's better than everyone else. He's better in someone's opinion at that moment and its dangerous to get too excited about that. Life is a long, long road with many ups and downs.
3. Burnout! I have a 12-year-old who loves baseball. He also loves s****r, basketball and golf. I thnk that by labeling a player at this young age, you're probably stearing him to specialize in baseball. I've seen what happens to kids who specialize at such an early age. You're encouraging a kid to believe someone else's opinion that he is the best baseball player around. Let him be a kid and enjoy all sports. Soon enough he'll be in high school and need to start focusing on the one sport where his passion lies. Kids change a lot as they grow and good athletes need to experience a variety of sports. I won't even touch on the issue of over-use injury to a player who plays only one sport.
Let a kid be a kid! Rankings seem to be more for the benefit of the adults!
LL Baseball is a time for fun and for learing the life-lessons involved in being part of a team. I see 3 issues with ranking players so young:
1. You're teaching kids that self-promotion comes before team. Being the winner of a game or tournament used to the ultimate goal.
2. You're misleading a young player into thinking he's better than everyone else. He's better in someone's opinion at that moment and its dangerous to get too excited about that. Life is a long, long road with many ups and downs.
3. Burnout! I have a 12-year-old who loves baseball. He also loves s****r, basketball and golf. I thnk that by labeling a player at this young age, you're probably stearing him to specialize in baseball. I've seen what happens to kids who specialize at such an early age. You're encouraging a kid to believe someone else's opinion that he is the best baseball player around. Let him be a kid and enjoy all sports. Soon enough he'll be in high school and need to start focusing on the one sport where his passion lies. Kids change a lot as they grow and good athletes need to experience a variety of sports. I won't even touch on the issue of over-use injury to a player who plays only one sport.
Let a kid be a kid! Rankings seem to be more for the benefit of the adults!
PGStaff You Have A PM!
PGStaff,
You said,
And you said,
A thump,maybe?
Maybe I have unfairly aligned you with Baseball America because of your relationship with them.
I understand why you would say that because I included my sons, but my point was that the ranking or lack thereof has not been an issue for them.
I don't have any personal issues about the matter at all.
I have always enjoyed your posts over the years. Always had the utmost respect for your opinions.
Part of this post posted before I finished and you have now read only the first part and are likely quite steamed.
It appears that from rereading your posts that you start with the 15.
I think 15-16, sophs in high school is about right.
quote:It was a litte slap, PGStaff, and you took it exactly the way I expected.
You said,
, as I expected.quote:Maybe we need to think about this a little
And you said,
quote:In fact, I’ve stated I’m not necessarily sure I’m correct.
quote:Just not sure a “slap” was appropriate or justified
A thump,maybe?
quote:As we don’t “rank” 12 year olds,
quote:there are some who have posted here who have had highly ranked sons including justbaseball who you have mentioned.
quote:BA surely does include 12 year olds to create interest (customers) and it works.
Maybe I have unfairly aligned you with Baseball America because of your relationship with them.
quote:The paranoia in me is sending signals that this is somewhat of a personal issue for some reason.
I understand why you would say that because I included my sons, but my point was that the ranking or lack thereof has not been an issue for them.
I don't have any personal issues about the matter at all.
I have always enjoyed your posts over the years. Always had the utmost respect for your opinions.
Part of this post posted before I finished and you have now read only the first part and are likely quite steamed.
It appears that from rereading your posts that you start with the 15.
I think 15-16, sophs in high school is about right.
KCBaseball,
I agree with your first comments about LL should be fun, a learning experience and being part of a team. I also agree with "let a kid be a kid". The replies below pertain to older high school players and I don't think that is what you were referring to.
Regarding the 3 issues, here is how I see it.
1. You're teaching kids that self-promotion comes before team. Being the winner of a game or tournament used to the ultimate goal.
Reply - Those who might do the rankings are not teaching anything. Parents and coaches are responsible for making sure self promotion doesn't get in the way.
2. You're misleading a young player into thinking he's better than everyone else. He's better in someone's opinion at that moment and its dangerous to get too excited about that. Life is a long, long road with many ups and downs.
Reply - Life is a long, long road with many ups and downs (I can attest to that) I'm not sure I understand the misleading part. It really is someone's opinion at that time. Is it actually dangerous? Once again shouldn't parents and coaches be able to make sure a kids head is screwed on correctly. If being honored as a top player among your peers becomes a problem... is it the fault of those who are doing the honoring? Are they responsible for the problem? I'm just asking!
3. Burnout! I have a 12-year-old who loves baseball. He also loves s****r, basketball and golf. I thnk that by labeling a player at this young age, you're probably stearing him to specialize in baseball. I've seen what happens to kids who specialize at such an early age. You're encouraging a kid to believe someone else's opinion that he is the best baseball player around. Let him be a kid and enjoy all sports. Soon enough he'll be in high school and need to start focusing on the one sport where his passion lies. Kids change a lot as they grow and good athletes need to experience a variety of sports. I won't even touch on the issue of over-use injury to a player who plays only one sport.
Reply - The facts show that a large number of highly ranked players do in fact play other sports. In fact, many of them are top prospects in another sport. Those doing the rankings don't have anything to do with what kids do outside of baseball. No one is encouraging kids to specialize. No one is encouraging kids to believe anything. It really is someones opinion that the kid is one of the best. Those doing the rankings don't cause over use or injury, once again the parents and coaches are responsible for that and all of the above.
Burnout... My definition... In most cases it's an excuse... Most often caused when a player no longer is being successful. As long as a player is successful... Burnout is very rare! Ask Roger Clemens! By all standards, he should have been burnt out a long time ago. I once tried golf and got burnt out quickly!
I'm really not trying to be argumentative. I tend to agree that 12 years old is too young to rank. I just think blaming the rankers as problem causers doesn't make much sense. I know for a fact it wouldn't have caused any problems in our household! If it did, I sure wouldn't blame Baseball America!
I agree with your first comments about LL should be fun, a learning experience and being part of a team. I also agree with "let a kid be a kid". The replies below pertain to older high school players and I don't think that is what you were referring to.
Regarding the 3 issues, here is how I see it.
1. You're teaching kids that self-promotion comes before team. Being the winner of a game or tournament used to the ultimate goal.
Reply - Those who might do the rankings are not teaching anything. Parents and coaches are responsible for making sure self promotion doesn't get in the way.
2. You're misleading a young player into thinking he's better than everyone else. He's better in someone's opinion at that moment and its dangerous to get too excited about that. Life is a long, long road with many ups and downs.
Reply - Life is a long, long road with many ups and downs (I can attest to that) I'm not sure I understand the misleading part. It really is someone's opinion at that time. Is it actually dangerous? Once again shouldn't parents and coaches be able to make sure a kids head is screwed on correctly. If being honored as a top player among your peers becomes a problem... is it the fault of those who are doing the honoring? Are they responsible for the problem? I'm just asking!
3. Burnout! I have a 12-year-old who loves baseball. He also loves s****r, basketball and golf. I thnk that by labeling a player at this young age, you're probably stearing him to specialize in baseball. I've seen what happens to kids who specialize at such an early age. You're encouraging a kid to believe someone else's opinion that he is the best baseball player around. Let him be a kid and enjoy all sports. Soon enough he'll be in high school and need to start focusing on the one sport where his passion lies. Kids change a lot as they grow and good athletes need to experience a variety of sports. I won't even touch on the issue of over-use injury to a player who plays only one sport.
Reply - The facts show that a large number of highly ranked players do in fact play other sports. In fact, many of them are top prospects in another sport. Those doing the rankings don't have anything to do with what kids do outside of baseball. No one is encouraging kids to specialize. No one is encouraging kids to believe anything. It really is someones opinion that the kid is one of the best. Those doing the rankings don't cause over use or injury, once again the parents and coaches are responsible for that and all of the above.
Burnout... My definition... In most cases it's an excuse... Most often caused when a player no longer is being successful. As long as a player is successful... Burnout is very rare! Ask Roger Clemens! By all standards, he should have been burnt out a long time ago. I once tried golf and got burnt out quickly!
I'm really not trying to be argumentative. I tend to agree that 12 years old is too young to rank. I just think blaming the rankers as problem causers doesn't make much sense. I know for a fact it wouldn't have caused any problems in our household! If it did, I sure wouldn't blame Baseball America!
quote:Does rating a young player the best really ruin the team concept of baseball? It shouldn’t if parents and coaches are good leaders! Does a player who is overlooked at age 12 lose any opportunity to become the best?
quote:However, knowing some of these young players are not going to develop into highest level prospects… What is so wrong at recognizing them now, while they are some of the better players among their peers. Some of these young kids will someday be able to tell their grand children that they were once named one of the best at age 12. The others who truly become the best at age 17 and above, don’t need anything to fall back on.
These are basically the two points which support Baseball for the Ages including 12 year olds.(taken from PGStaff because he can say it better than I).
quote:In my experience... Highly ranked players already have high expectations. If a player allows disappointment of being unranked stop him from reaching his goals, he probably doesn’t have what it takes.
Great statement. If a kid can let something like Baseball for the Ages get in the way of his performance, maybe he should work more on his mental makeup/toughness.
FormerObserver,
You'll have to forgive me... I'm not very smart!
What does that comment mean?
Just because I’m paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get me!
You'll have to forgive me... I'm not very smart!
What does that comment mean?
Just because I’m paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get me!
PGStaff,
I just got started on this thread the wrong way.
I saw "ranking", Baseball America, PGStaff, and thought, incorrectly, that 12 year olds were somehow now being ranked.
I don't like the idea, as many have expressed here, including yourself.
The thought that PG was involving in reporting and ranking 12 year olds to Baseball America just didn't sit right with me.
And I was opinionated about it enought to reuse the word "slap" with a "little" in front of it because I wanted the emphasis.
Forgive me.
And now for those with 12 year olds.
I've been through that process with my sons.
Yes, it's exciting to know you've been seen, been ranked, someone thinks you can play.
You should be proud.
But, your teammates will wonder why they weren't listed and you were.
You will wonder why you were listed and your teammates weren't.
Dads will wonder why their son wasn't and yours was.
Dad, I'm not on the list.
Maybe you will be on the next list.
Maybe they lost your report.
Dad, did you know that player from podunk is on the list?
Dad, you remember that guy at East Cobb that thumped us? He's number 22 on the list.
Dad, remember when, my teammate was the first one listed from our team. He's not playing any longer.
You might not be on the next report.
Someone will be higher than you that wasn't even on the list last time.
And someone will say how stressful being on the list is and someone will say how stressful not being on the list is.
Should we go to that showcase or this showcase so we will be on the list?
Wonder who will get the list?
And how did that guy ever get on that list?
If he's number 343 from Texas, I ought to be 3.
Can you believe that pitcher from North Carolina ain't even listed?
The new list from Baseball America is out, but you have to have a subscription.
Well, just post one name, and we'll tell you whether he's on the list or not.
I know a lot of boys that were never on the list still playing.
I know a lot of boys on the list still playing.
I remember that homerun he hit when he was 12.
He wasn't worried about being on the list then..........
I'm glad it was that way.
He's not worried about it now.........
I'm glad it is that way.
I just got started on this thread the wrong way.
I saw "ranking", Baseball America, PGStaff, and thought, incorrectly, that 12 year olds were somehow now being ranked.
I don't like the idea, as many have expressed here, including yourself.
The thought that PG was involving in reporting and ranking 12 year olds to Baseball America just didn't sit right with me.
And I was opinionated about it enought to reuse the word "slap" with a "little" in front of it because I wanted the emphasis.
Forgive me.
And now for those with 12 year olds.
I've been through that process with my sons.
Yes, it's exciting to know you've been seen, been ranked, someone thinks you can play.
You should be proud.
But, your teammates will wonder why they weren't listed and you were.
You will wonder why you were listed and your teammates weren't.
Dads will wonder why their son wasn't and yours was.
Dad, I'm not on the list.
Maybe you will be on the next list.
Maybe they lost your report.
Dad, did you know that player from podunk is on the list?
Dad, you remember that guy at East Cobb that thumped us? He's number 22 on the list.
Dad, remember when, my teammate was the first one listed from our team. He's not playing any longer.
You might not be on the next report.
Someone will be higher than you that wasn't even on the list last time.
And someone will say how stressful being on the list is and someone will say how stressful not being on the list is.
Should we go to that showcase or this showcase so we will be on the list?
Wonder who will get the list?
And how did that guy ever get on that list?
If he's number 343 from Texas, I ought to be 3.
Can you believe that pitcher from North Carolina ain't even listed?
The new list from Baseball America is out, but you have to have a subscription.
Well, just post one name, and we'll tell you whether he's on the list or not.
I know a lot of boys that were never on the list still playing.
I know a lot of boys on the list still playing.
I remember that homerun he hit when he was 12.
He wasn't worried about being on the list then..........
I'm glad it was that way.
He's not worried about it now.........
I'm glad it is that way.
Of course I forgive you.
Please forgive me!
It's been a long time since I've been the parent of a 12 year old. My baby is now 30! Guess I kind of forgot what it's like. Thanks for the reminder. It's always good to read what others think.
I'm still a big believer in the "cream rising to the top." Also think it would be great if it were possible for every kid to be ranked #1 just one time in his life.
Please forgive me!
It's been a long time since I've been the parent of a 12 year old. My baby is now 30! Guess I kind of forgot what it's like. Thanks for the reminder. It's always good to read what others think.
I'm still a big believer in the "cream rising to the top." Also think it would be great if it were possible for every kid to be ranked #1 just one time in his life.
PGStaff:
You're right, I am referring to 12-year-olds and my firm belief that the game of baseball should be a fun, healthy experience at this age. Its parents who are pushing for rankings for these kids. If the parents push, then the baseball businesses will respond and rank 12-year-olds. Its supply and demand and thats what makes the business world go 'round!
I have no problem with rankings at the high school level. Things are much more cometitive by then. Those who are listed gain a sense of pride, those who aren't listed will work harder to rise to the top. By this age they're old enough to learn from the lists.
I understand that companies who rank players are just providing a service to organize the level of talent they see at their events. For HS players I see the value. For 12-year-olds, it turns the game of baseball into a business. You seem to be going on the assumption that the info provided in rankings will be used in a healthy way. Thats not always the case. Does this mean you shouldn't rank players? Of course not...there are just those of us who don't think its necessary before high school.
You're right, I am referring to 12-year-olds and my firm belief that the game of baseball should be a fun, healthy experience at this age. Its parents who are pushing for rankings for these kids. If the parents push, then the baseball businesses will respond and rank 12-year-olds. Its supply and demand and thats what makes the business world go 'round!
I have no problem with rankings at the high school level. Things are much more cometitive by then. Those who are listed gain a sense of pride, those who aren't listed will work harder to rise to the top. By this age they're old enough to learn from the lists.
I understand that companies who rank players are just providing a service to organize the level of talent they see at their events. For HS players I see the value. For 12-year-olds, it turns the game of baseball into a business. You seem to be going on the assumption that the info provided in rankings will be used in a healthy way. Thats not always the case. Does this mean you shouldn't rank players? Of course not...there are just those of us who don't think its necessary before high school.
KCBaseball,
Actually we don't feel it's necessary either or else we would do it. And I do agree with those who say it's next to impossible to rank 12 year olds.
However, we have ranked some 14 year olds in the past. Of course, they have played at the high school level. It's not easy to accurately rank high school players, let alone 12 year olds.
That said, it is amazing how often BA has been right about these young kids in the past. Of course they're not actually "ranking them" but honoring them for accomplishments. That's not exactly the same thing.
When we rank players it is based on talent and potential only, often we don't even know what their actual accomplishments have been.
Actually we don't feel it's necessary either or else we would do it. And I do agree with those who say it's next to impossible to rank 12 year olds.
However, we have ranked some 14 year olds in the past. Of course, they have played at the high school level. It's not easy to accurately rank high school players, let alone 12 year olds.
That said, it is amazing how often BA has been right about these young kids in the past. Of course they're not actually "ranking them" but honoring them for accomplishments. That's not exactly the same thing.
When we rank players it is based on talent and potential only, often we don't even know what their actual accomplishments have been.
Believe me the kids know who's good and who isn't. Even if BA didn't make up a list the LL players across the country would be measuring themselves against the MLBers who they try to emulate.
The kids want to make the LL All-Stars at 12yo and then as a general rule only the ones who really love the game care much about who's doing what.
It's nice that someone would consider giving "some" kids the nod of "Top Prospects" but we all know at 12yo it's only indicative for that age group. As they go into puberty, the maturation levels can be so random. What was a great prospect can turn into a real non-athlete...and that can be difficult for some to deal with.
The kids want to make the LL All-Stars at 12yo and then as a general rule only the ones who really love the game care much about who's doing what.
It's nice that someone would consider giving "some" kids the nod of "Top Prospects" but we all know at 12yo it's only indicative for that age group. As they go into puberty, the maturation levels can be so random. What was a great prospect can turn into a real non-athlete...and that can be difficult for some to deal with.
"Our business revolves around players 15 to 18 (high school age),"
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"I do think it is virtually impossible to rate someone the very best 12 year old."
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"As we don’t “rank” 12 year olds, I don’t have anything more than an opinion, the same as everyone else"
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"Actually we don't feel it's necessary either or else we would do it. And I do agree with those who say it's next to impossible to rank 12 year olds."
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"However, we have ranked some 14 year olds in the past. Of course, they have played at the high school level. It's not easy to accurately rank high school players, let alone 12 year olds."
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PGstaff,
Above are some quotes from you in this thread. This topic has kind of peaked my interest.
What are the plans of PG relating to youth baseball 14U, 13U, 12U, 11U, 10U, etc.???
I have spoken to a few PG employees (in the past 6 months) and they have said that PG intends to start doing events events all the way down to 10U. They said that tournaments, showcases, and rankings will be done for these age groups. In fact, there appears to be some of these very events already planned and on your schedule.
Wouldn't these future (current) plans of PG contradict many of your comments on this thread?
I'm very interested in this topic as our organization is planning on adding teams in the younger age groups and these events would be something we would have interest in.
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"I do think it is virtually impossible to rate someone the very best 12 year old."
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"As we don’t “rank” 12 year olds, I don’t have anything more than an opinion, the same as everyone else"
---------------
"Actually we don't feel it's necessary either or else we would do it. And I do agree with those who say it's next to impossible to rank 12 year olds."
---------------
"However, we have ranked some 14 year olds in the past. Of course, they have played at the high school level. It's not easy to accurately rank high school players, let alone 12 year olds."
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PGstaff,
Above are some quotes from you in this thread. This topic has kind of peaked my interest.
What are the plans of PG relating to youth baseball 14U, 13U, 12U, 11U, 10U, etc.???
I have spoken to a few PG employees (in the past 6 months) and they have said that PG intends to start doing events events all the way down to 10U. They said that tournaments, showcases, and rankings will be done for these age groups. In fact, there appears to be some of these very events already planned and on your schedule.
Wouldn't these future (current) plans of PG contradict many of your comments on this thread?
I'm very interested in this topic as our organization is planning on adding teams in the younger age groups and these events would be something we would have interest in.
PG,
FYI
Your employees have recently posted these comments.....
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"Perfect Game will be setting up and coordinating showcases for the '10 & '11 Graduates to see who are the top players."
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"We will be hosting showcases for 7th and 8th graders in the coming year."
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"We have set up dates for the 12U Winter BCS."
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FYI
Your employees have recently posted these comments.....
------------
"Perfect Game will be setting up and coordinating showcases for the '10 & '11 Graduates to see who are the top players."
-------------
"We will be hosting showcases for 7th and 8th graders in the coming year."
--------------
"We have set up dates for the 12U Winter BCS."
--------------
I'm not sure why PG is catching all the spears on this. If they decide to put on tournaments/showcases/all tournament teams and player rankings for younger players, they are merely responding to market demand. In fact, they are probably a little late to the table.
AAU has sponsored national championships for age groups from 8 and under to high school for years and years.
http://www.aaubaseball.org/pages/pastchamps.html
These tournaments are wildly successful and popular. PG's organizational skills would be welcomed by the younger age groups.
I doubt we'll see 9 year olds running the 60 yard dash or being gunned from right field. Whatever they do it would be oriented to the age group.
As Mr Trombley indicates, folks are looking for more venues and events for younger kids. So be it if it's not your cup of tea.
My son started traveling to tournements at age 10. He thoroughly enjoyed it then as he does now.
AAU has sponsored national championships for age groups from 8 and under to high school for years and years.
http://www.aaubaseball.org/pages/pastchamps.html
These tournaments are wildly successful and popular. PG's organizational skills would be welcomed by the younger age groups.
I doubt we'll see 9 year olds running the 60 yard dash or being gunned from right field. Whatever they do it would be oriented to the age group.
As Mr Trombley indicates, folks are looking for more venues and events for younger kids. So be it if it's not your cup of tea.
My son started traveling to tournements at age 10. He thoroughly enjoyed it then as he does now.
04,
Big difference between AAU tournaments for teams and ranking, er, I mean "identifying top players" for individual recognition. I'm not singling out PG here, and I don't have a problem with offering tournaments, but it's a stretch to suggest individual rankings for young ages are merely a response to market demand. It generates business, sure, but is it serving the kids in the long run? Don't see it.
Big difference between AAU tournaments for teams and ranking, er, I mean "identifying top players" for individual recognition. I'm not singling out PG here, and I don't have a problem with offering tournaments, but it's a stretch to suggest individual rankings for young ages are merely a response to market demand. It generates business, sure, but is it serving the kids in the long run? Don't see it.