Coach who demands perfection victim of entitled parents

 

 

I never miss an opportunity to tell my AD how much I appreciate him for having my back.  I got into it with parents on my girls golf team my first year at my current school and state.  Girls freekin' golf???  I mean the #s speak for themselves as far as who your top players are and who plays the tournaments; unless someone's little precious cheats, and then there's a problem.  AD had my back all the way and 8-years later as JV Baseball coach he still has my back. 

 

I am grateful.

Yes I think so too.

I've heard basically nothing but good things about the L-S head coach from VERY knowledgeable baseball people from his area. Sad to read.

I would love for my son to have a coach like that and these people are complaining?

They don't deserve a coach like that. They will get a guy who will play by their rules. They will realize way too late they made a terrible mistake. He will be better off moving on to a place that will appreciate him.

 

I have a good friend who is an outstanding football coach. He took a program that had never won and in 5 years they won back to back conference championships. Something that the school had never done. Players were getting scholarships and the stands were full. He got a great offer in another county that paid way more since the current school would not give him a pay raise. Would not give him but 2 paid assistants.

 

He took the job with a healthy pay raise. He lasted one year after a winning season. The parents didn't believe he was playing the right kids in the right spots. They went to the AD and caused a big scene. They fired him. He is now in the process of coming back to his old gig. With no pay raise but in his words "At least I can coach these kids and not have to worry about the parents running me off for not playing Daddy Ball."

 

What a freaking shame. We are living in a society where the parents are so entitled they want to make sure their kids are. Some of these areas in this country are simply done. It makes me want to go find my old AD and give him a hug. If not for him I wouldn't have last 1 year.

It is sad.  My guess is that the parents who are complaining are the ones with the son that does't pick up a baseball mitt until the week before tryouts and then puts it way the day after the season ends until the following spring. 

Its a shame that they don't see what a disservice they do to their kids when they try to control every situation.  

I know this coach in question and have direct experience with him over multiple seasons.  He is as fine a baseball coach as you will find, and just as good a person.  He cares about his players, and goes the extra mile to actually teach the game the right way.  He coaches with a positive approach, yet demands they continue to do it until they learn how to do it right.  I saw him stay one night with a kid after practice working on middle infield play and double plays around the bag. They stayed until almost dark.  This coach could have just as easily gone home to his family.  That kid he was working with went on to go in the second round out of high school.  For those of us that know this coach, it is truly a stunning turn of events.

The only thing I can ask, is where can I find a coach like this for my son and his buddies?  They would all love that. 

Sadly, this scenario is repeating itself all over the country.  Oh, sometimes its just a retirement or a 'move' to a different job - but far too dam* often its a result of a crew of parents ruining things for everyone.

 

And then I know some coaches that are teetering on the edge - trying to stick it out, but finding it harder and harder every year.

 

I am so thankful that my kids are past all of that stuff.  I feel like they passed through just in time.

Of course the article doesn't reveal what the actual issues where.  Reading the comments, the worst he did was call some players parts of the female anatomy.  Who knows if he crossed any lines.  The winning record is great, but the school needs to make sure that no lines are crossed.  It's ok to be tough.  But abusive is not.  We all have seen the cases where a coach becomes "untouchable" and ends up abusing his players.  So a school administration needs to make sure they take complaints seriously and properly investigate and monitor.  They actually need to be thinking adults and make real decisions.  Unfortunately, it does not appear that they did so in this case.  Sounds like they took the easy way out. 

 

https://soundcloud.com/bostonh...oln-sudbury-baseball 

My take is that this attitude is more prevelant than ever before because of a major change in the economic climate of high school sports over the past few years. Not too long ago, it was unheard of for schools to charge fees to play high school sports. Sadly, now most do. Sometimes these fees are pretty hefty. In the Denver area where I formerly lived, the school budget for sports is practically zero. The money is expected to come from the kids themselves and their families in the form of sports participation fees. In fact, the Denver metro area has almost no middle school sports for this reason. All sports prior to high school are private club organizations. So, what you have now is parents who've been paying through the nose for years for Johnnie to play on travel teams. The fact that they were funding it gave them, in most cases, some say in how those organizations were run. The move to high school, for those parents, doesn't seem to be any different - they're footing the bill, so they feel entitled to a say in how the program works. High School sports have, thus, just become an extension of travel ball in their minds. In the days where kids didn't have to pay-to-play, it was hard to convince yourself you had any say in how the program was run - the whole community was paying for your kid to play. My son now goes to a school where there are no fees to play - the entire athletic budget is through the school. I see fewer entitles parents.

One of the neighboring counties has instituted a "pay-to-play" policy.  It's $100 per student per sport so if a student plays three sports, it's $300.  The fee is payable once the player makes the team.  As I understand it though, the administration had made it clear that just because a student made the team and parents had to pay the fee, that in no way guarantees playing time nor do they have the "right" to dictate how the team is run.  I have not heard of any issues to date. Our county school board briefly discussed it, but tabled the motion.  The money received from charging pay-to-play fees would be a small percentage of the athletic budget.

 

What are those parents going to do when/if their child goes to college and plays a sport?  College coaches won't put up with that crap.  The parents need to realize they're being evaluated as well as the student-athlete.  It won't matter how much $$ they contribute to the athletic boosters.

As Golfman25 says this story doesn't really give a full picture of what happened and why.  Maybe the new AD finally showed some cajones and stood up to a formerly untouchable coach. Maybe it's a sign of weakness.  Who knows from what has been written so far.  Just as the guy on the radio says, we need a lot more details to have a basis for judging.

Not quite, I know a former minor leaguer who told me that in college, this one kid started even though he was horrible because his dad gave a lot of money to the school.  I was shocked when he told me that.  I can't stand politics.  Let the best person for the job get it.

FoxDad,

Unfortunately it can and is happening in college.  While the coaches and hopefully most AD's won't tolerate it, it appears some AD's might.

Locally, there have been several articles about the recent demise and issues within Stanford Softball. I am attaching  a link to one article about  the turmoil in the once very good and very proud Stanford Softball program, seemingly created by a group of parents who were able to access the AD.  The turmoil resulted in the prior coach leaving and is impacting the new coach in ways still to be determined:

 

http://www.sfgate.com/news/art...Stanford-6325754.php

 

This is an 18 minute audio clip - what in this did you find relevant or interesting?  Sorry for being lazy (busy) but I'd like an idea of whether this is worth that kind of time commitment.

The whole thing is relevant.  The guy is articulate and forceful and pretty fair minded,

Don't be silly and think for one minute that money, politics, and relationships don't have some impact at ALL levels of sports.   

 

It's nothing new and will never go away.  To ignore it and act like it doesn't happen is ignorant.  To think it's all bad is also silly.  Next time you head out to a game ask yourself how much of the facility was paid for with private funds.  MANY times the kids behind these funds are very good and can compete on there own.  These donations are just one more + on their side. 

 

Rarely have I seen at competitive levels that these politics actually place a kid in a spot that truly weakens the team. 

 

 

Great, great point Roothog, but careful as this treads dangerously close to suggesting the dreaded "P-Word" on this site.  So true, as the more budgets are slashed and more fundraising and donors and heavy hitting boosters are sought out (many of them parents of current players or candidate players) the privately donated money can cause conflicts of interest and if it doesn't then, certain coaches may get shown the door.

With any type of funding whether from the Feds, or Little Johnny's dad, it is a given that it comes with strings (read: influence) attached.

I would add that sometimes people don't have all the facts and the school would rather say nothing then give the terminated/non-renewed coach ammo for a lawsuit or further embarrassment.  I am not saying it happened in this situation, but not all situations are the same and the school really can't say anything to fully defend itself so it can seem undefendable when in fact there might be one really good undisclosed reason for the termination/non-renewal.

 

i.e. My daughter was sexually harassed by one of her HS basketball coaches and he had to quit.  His departure was never explained to the parents or players. Some parents and players were seriously bent out of shape believing the guy was screwed by the AD....and even tried to bring him back!  A sleezeball to one, a good coach to the rest....?

One of the great motivation speeches is The Last Lecture by Randy Pausch. The ten minute version on Oprah is all you need to see. Pausch was talking about obstacles. He referred to a tough football practice as a kid. 

 

Pausch had his head down as he walked off the field. An assistant walked over and said, "Coach was really tough on you today. It means he cares. If he Ignores you it means he's given up on you."

To echo CollegeParentNoMore -- a local coach in these parts was fired in midseason because he turned out to be addicted to painkillers for his bad back after back surgery.  He one day had the bright idea of mixing his pain killers with his martini's and show up at HS game high out his mind.  He was replaced by the AD without a public explanation.  those not in the know assumed it was privileged parents complaining again  (since this was that particular schools 4th coach in as many years).  Reasonable assumption, perhaps, from the outside.  But because my son plays travel ball with a couple of players from that school -- we heard a different side than was ever officially presented to the public. 

 

My point is it's hard to judge these situations from the outside, especially when only one side is telling its self-serving story. 

My kid never played for any coach that didn't demand perfection. 

It wasn't always a pleasant journey, but that is what happens when you play for those type of coaches. It never bothered me, though there were plenty of parents who hated them. That goes for in HS, college, professional ball.

Funniest thing, as a new coach, he is exactly the same, he demands perfection and there are many things his team is learning that is unacceptable in the game of baseball.

 

Wait, there are still school districts where kids don't have to pay anything to play HS sports? I thought those times were long gone. We've been paying in our area since I was in HS and I now have a senior. Our "offset fee", as it's called, is $160 per sport. No discounts for multi-sport kids, but there is a family max. I don't think our politics or parent/child entitlement issues are any worse or different from other areas. It seems to be more of a cultural shift across the country.

As I mentioned previously, yes, there are school divisions that have not instituted pay-to-play.  Our county is one of them. 

 

Pay-to-play was discussed by the school board a few years back, but they decided not to go that route for time being.  It would not surprise me if it is eventually reintroduced.

 

One of the neighboring counties did institute pay-to-play fees - $100 per student per sport.  Not sure if there is family cap.

 

It should be noted our county is small (population wise) - only one high school (~1300 students) whereas the neighboring county that has instituted pay-to-play as at least 5 high schools.

TPM neither did either of my kids. Players rise to the level of expectation. Why would any coach limit the possibilities? How can you ever know just how high you can go unless the limits are pushed to the greatest limit? To do anything else is failure. Coaches should get the very best out of you. They should push you to go beyond what you think you can go. What these parents want is feel good coaching. It feels good but its hollow. Feel good coaching. Tell them what they want to hear. Give them what makes them feel good. Don't worry about what will make them better. Soft entitiled parents raising soft entitled kids. When the going gets tough the tough get going. Nope. When the going gets tough drop a dime. Why? Because I love my kid. Yep its the pussyfication of America. That's ok. I tell kids all the time. Love the fact they are P's. Because it only makes the competition much easier to defeat when you are a man and they are a P.

 

I made a living out of beating these teams with less talented players. Take your little boyz and go home. Nice seeing you today. Now go back to your play station and get your room ready in your parents basement. Your going to need it when you can't hack it in the real world.

A lot of assumption going on here....may end up being totally correct of course. 

My kid has had coaches (football, baseball) get into fist fights on the side line, slap a kid, show up to games drunk (multiple times),instructing kids to try and injure other players, along with the normal curse laden verbal abuse.  

The "daddy-ball" thing is a real thing, the "trophy" culture is a real thing and it is not going away because it makes thing easier for the parents.  Kids are softer and more spoiled than they used to be.  But, speaking in general terms and from my experience, coaches are no better than they used to be.  

Every one of the coaches listed above preached to the kids about learning "respect for the game" and each other.  Lectured about learning discipline.  Basically, trying teach characteristics they did not possess as human beings.  If I hear one more coach wax on about life lessons etc. I will vomit.  Coaches are not raising young men. The game and sports in general can teach great life lessons.  Chances are the coach is running a haphazard, border line worthless practice a couple of times a week, then come game time will go against everything he has been preaching all week and act like a spoiled, entitled Dbag.  

Good coaches have expectations, high expectations in terms of discipline, practice habits and behavior on and off the field.  They are fair handed and firm.  Most of all they realize they are coaches and have some good information to teach about the sport and as importantly they know how to teach, how to instruct in a meaningful way.  First and foremost coaches are teachers in my opinion.  

If a guy is coaching and has to resort to constant physical punishment to get his message across he is more than likely not a great coach....running as punishment just gets a kid better at jogging, nothing else.  The worst to me is the guy who is constantly screaming and cursing to try and make a point.  I know most of these guys work outside of coaching.  It is assumed they do not behave this way toward other adults, co workers ect.  If they did they would be fired.  If a guy has to resort to name calling, screaming and yelling like a mental patient, cursing kids out in front of the team ect., it is just pathetic.  

Being in a position of power (over children no less) and feeling the need behave in such a way is a major red flag that the coach is a coward.  Weak, undisciplined with no respect for himself or the kids he coaches.   

Too much fake tough non sense in baseball too.  The game is hard, the middle aged coach with the gut and bad attitude is not.  The easiest football or rugby practice I ever had was harder (physically) than the hardest baseball practice. 

Who knows what happened in this specific case?  If the coach was forced out by domineering insecure parents, that is sad, but, he will not be out of work long.  Good coaching....actual coaches that are good at what they do, are hard to come by. 

Nicely done Coach May.

I will add, this is festered from early youth baseball.

Coach Dad sits on the bucket surrounded by the kids and asks the team giddily, after they were beaten to a pulp, "what did we learn today" among enthusiastic raised hands.

Typical of the manner of teaching today.

Not what the goal and expectation should be. Instead did we have fun.

Then when they get older, they find out getting beaten to a pulp is not fun.

The kids suffer later in sports and in life. 

Crap, crap and more crap.

 

Please google Augie Garrido Flips Out. Just because it's good to watch. Not because I want to debate Augie Garrido.

Classic Augie....

Me, Me and more Me.  

A little different at that level I think, dealing with adults not children.  Although, again, he is lucky he works in a profession where it is expected he can behave like a 5 year old.  

We can get into that there are good coaches and bad coaches thing again if you guys want. But how many times do we need to cover that same ground? We all know that the profession is no different than any profession. Bad, average, good and great. But what I am talking about here is the parents expectations of what they want out of a coach. What they expect out of a coach.

 

Ok I am 56 years old. I was cursed out. Kicked in the butt literally by my HS football coach. I was yelled at. Cursed at. Called out in front of my team. Called into an office and told I sucked. I had choices to make. Man up and do what I had to do or go home and cry to Mommy and Daddy about how I was mistreated. Of course that would have went over about as good as this went:

 

How was practice son "Oh my God Mom. He ran us until we puked. He was so mad because of the Webb game Friday night." Well you will be ok. Get ready for dinner. "What's wrong with you boy why you limping?" Coach ran us to death today I am cramping a bit. "Well if you ain't man enough to take it don't come home crying to me about it." I wasn't I was just .......... "Who you talking to? When I was in Korea you think I had time to cramp and whine like a ______when I was fighting for my life?" No sir that's not what......."Boy shut up. Let me tell you something. If you ain't man enough to take it quit. Get a __________ job and go to work. Don't let me ever hear you come home bad mouthing Coach Davis again." Yes sir.

 

I went to college to play football. There were 120 plus there. I was 4th on the depth chart coming into the season. By the time the season started there were 80 some players left. I was working on my 3rd room mate. My position coach came up to me when the season started "May how you doing?" I am great coach. "Look your a tough SOB. And that's what lasts in this world. Your 4th on the depth chart and probably won't travel next week. But stay tough. Because let me tell you what's going to happen. Someone is going to suck. Someone is going to get hurt. And someone is going to quit because they aint tough enough. You will be there when it matters." Yes sir.

 

By the fourth game of the season I was starting. They ran off a ton of guys. They couldn't take it. I called Coach Davis the night before my first start "Coach." Yep. This is Kenny May. "What's up son?" I just want you to know your the reason I am still here. No your the reason I am here. It's tough but it ain't nothing compared to what you prepared me for. I just wanted you to know I love you and I wanted to thank you for all you did for me. "Hell son what did you expect me to do? You need to call your Dad and thank him. I didn't do anything that he didn't already do." Good luck.

 

Not saying this to anyone in particular. I am just going to say it. You people talking about sending your son off to college. Helping him get a scholly to play in college. Worried about this long toss program. Weighted ball program. Weight lifting program. Showcase team. Showcase invitation. Etc etc etc. You better raise a freaking man first. Because that is what is going to endure. That is what is going to be standing there when no one else is. Thats what's going to raise your grand kids. Thats who is going to take care of your wife when you are gone. That's who your son is going to be when it matters after the glove and bat is put down.

 

Toughness never goes out of style. Tough times don't last but tough people do. You don't have to worry about the coach. The professor. The situation in life. When you raise a man. Baseball? Baseball ain't tough. Baseball is a freaking game. Life is tough. Raise a man. Or wait for him to look in the mirror one day and say "Why didn't they tell me about this?" It all sounded so awesome. What the hell happened? Now you can come back with all your Old School comments and this and that. Sorry, I know there are so many advancements we have made that have made life safer. Pads on the swings so kids dont crack their head open. No riding in the back of pick up trucks. All this progress and yes some of it is good. But at what point do we protect to the point of killing? Regulate to the point of vanilla, soft, entitled, P's who can't do anything unless someone comes in and saves them? Oh boy. I got to stop.

 

If you don't like this fine. Your son will never play for me anyway. If the shoe don't fit don't wear it.

New to the board, I was not aware of previous threads about good/bad coaching....a topic with no real "right" answer I suppose.  

I agree with everything you are saying Coach May.  

Toughness and respect begin and end within the individual.  Self respect.  That is what I am talking about.  

Perhaps that Dad is wise and realizes that 70-80% of the 8 year olds in front of him will play a couple of more seasons and be done with the game.  So he is trying to make it as enjoyable for the small child in front of him as he can and maybe teach a small lesson or two.

 

Nah - that has to be wrong.  He's a wuss teaching our kids how to lose the world to the Russkies, Chinese, ISIS (insert your favorite enemy here). 

 

Every game regardless of age and skill level must be played to the death.  Truth, justice and the American way demand it. 

 

 

I hope you didn't think I was attacking you Leftside. Sorry if it came across like that.

I'm with you Coach May.

You better raise a freaking man first. Because that is what is going to endure. That is what is going to be standing there when no one else is. Thats what's going to raise your grand kids. Thats who is going to take care of your wife when you are gone. That's who your son is going to be when it matters after the glove and bat is put down.

Exactly my philosophy.

If you sit and truly evaluate this statement you'll realize how wrong it is. Saying a game teaches moral lessons is the same as saying a factory builds automobiles.

 

The adults involved, coaches, parents, etc. teach lessons through the game as a medium. How your coach or parent responds to different situations is how the kid learns. 

 

Kid strikes out and you blame the umpire, the kid is learning excuses. Tell him it was too close to take and he should've been more aggressive and he's learning accountability and life ain't always fair.

 

Too many examples too list, but believe it, sports by themselves don't teach lessons. They provide great opportunities for the adults involved to teach them though. 

No, I didn't take it that way.  If you were directing it at me that would be fine too. 

Its not an attack anyway, just a conversation.  I think we would see things much the same way.  My favorite coaches were ones that were tough but fair, that treated us like grown ups but expected us to behave as such.  

I just can't my head around screaming and cursing out 15 year olds.  I have never found the need to coach that way or treat kids with such disrespect.  But, different ways I suppose.  

Ironhorse....

Well said.  I stand corrected with how I was expressing myself.  We are really saying the same thing....although you said it in a much more concise way.  

You are right.  A field with lines drawn on it a few bases and a ball teaches nothing.  It is about the adults involved and how they conduct themselves, how they teach, how they react and how the lead the kids.  Unfortunately, I have seen way more bad examples of behavior than good.  So, I was saying the lessons that are there to be learned are the situations, the failures and challenges the game presents.  The adults should be there to push, pull, guide and motivate the kids through them.