Umpires and controversial home run calls

Out - not even close...and the ump is in a perfect position to see it. 

Actual play call was safe! Missed one where he called one of our runners out just as poorly so that was a 3 run difference taken away from us. Hard to get eliminated from state tourney contention on calls like that

Yeah - that's tough as the runner in the pic is not even close to the plate. Pretty sad!

We have photos of the whole sequence....lead leg goes outside of home plate, tagged again at belt level then at shoulder level...just don't see how you are in that position and blow that call

For my thoughts its hard to believe its just missed calls.I say this from PAST experiances in MY area of watching HS aged kids compete.A handful of yrs. ago was at a HS FB game (No kid or imapct on me)Team with ball down by 6.Enough time for "1" hurry up drive.Every yard gained other than the 3yrd. TD was on a flagged play. 65 yrds. of penalties against defense on the final drive.When U set ball down @ the 20 yrd. line it was completly obvious what was going on.A real shame on ALL adults involved.The ones involved and the majority who thought it was OK. winning team advanced to semi-finals.

Give the coach the pictures. Have him deal with the association and umpire.  

Forgot to add. Only two reasons I can see for blowing this call.

1. Inexperienced nervousness. And as bad as this is, it maybe acceptable after all we're all human 
    beings and I think most of us can understand that's happened to us at some point.  I've seen
    some guys call safe or an out before the play ends.  But in lower levels 7-9 year olds level games.
2. Purposely bad umpire. In this case he needs to loose his job.

I don't see the plate or the ball, so can't make a call over the internet.

Bad calls get made all the time.

Lefty21, The way I read your op was calls not the one call necesarily correct? Go4 is correct unfortunatly .One just hopes it doesn't impact game.

2019Lefty21 posted:

2019 son just finished up his freshman varsity season after being eliminated in one of the oddest endings to a sectional game. His team down 5-2 top 7. Teammate hits a 3 run bomb to left, left fielder runs full on into fence trying to catch it, but just over the glove and wall...game tied 5-5. After tending to the left fielder for 15 minutes, game resumes defensive team appeals that batter missed home, out #2 called run removed from board 5-4 final. These were 2 of the top 10 teams in the state and to see a game end this way was shocking. There were 5 plays at the plate that were controversial in the 2 game series and they all went for the same team. Unfortunately the removal of the home run sent the seniors to the end of their careers, and pinned an L on my freshman after pitching really well against the #3 team in the state! Oh yeah...out or safe? #20 foot is blocking home plate

Similar thing in a game earlier this year: 

http://community.hsbaseballweb...school-baseball-game

I'm still trying to figure out the point of the OP.

Matt13 posted:

I'm still trying to figure out the point of the OP.

His side was on the losing end and he is venting through a chat board.  Not much more than that.

Go44dad posted:

Matt13 posted:

I'm still trying to figure out the point of the OP.

His side was on the losing end and he is venting through a chat board.  Not much more than that.

I know the umpire cost us to lose out in the 1st round of the playoffs.  I can't tell you how many blown calls were made in our second game that ended in a 21-5 beating.  ;o)

P.S. the score is real.  

Go44dad posted:

Matt13 posted:

I'm still trying to figure out the point of the OP.

His side was on the losing end and he is venting through a chat board.  Not much more than that.

That's pretty much it...plus just not much used to seeing tying run from a HR taken off board in the top 7....I guess my point was just to whine! Thanks for those who indulged my need! As far as ball and plate, ball is in glove plate is behind fielders foot! 2 ft behind tag!

2019Lefty21 posted:

That's pretty much it...plus just not much used to seeing tying run from a HR taken off board in the top 7....I guess my point was just to whine! Thanks for those who indulged my need! As far as ball and plate, ball is in glove plate is behind fielders foot! 2 ft behind tag!

Did the runner touch the plate? 

I had a runner miss second the other day.  No appeal.  Had the defense noticed and appealed, it could have changed the outcome of the game.

Kids said he touched plate (HR guy called out) just not sure how after a 15 minute injury delay anyone knows what anyone really saw. Everyone is gonna say the call was right or wrong based on the outcome they wanted/got. Just showing the other blown call at the plate because I feel there was definitely some bias by the home plate ump to start with. I had just never seen anything like that happen before. Kid jumped up in the air and came down on the plate or didn't....no photographic evidence one way or another...just a crazy chain of events in a win or go home game

2019Lefty21 posted:

Kids said he touched plate (HR guy called out) just not sure how after a 15 minute injury delay anyone knows what anyone really saw. Everyone is gonna say the call was right or wrong based on the outcome they wanted/got. Just showing the other blown call at the plate because I feel there was definitely some bias by the home plate ump to start with. I had just never seen anything like that happen before. Kid jumped up in the air and came down on the plate or didn't....no photographic evidence one way or another...just a crazy chain of events in a win or go home game

If I see a runner miss a base, that's definitely sticking in my mind no matter how long a delay exists.

And I'm pretty sure there was no bias. Personally, that argument undermines the credibility of anyone who uses it. I've found that if there were calls that were actually missed, it was due to some consistent factor involving that particular player/team (i.e. the way a catcher was catching it, the way the MI would put tags down, etc.) or something mechanically wrong with the umpire. More often, though, the calls were mostly correct. I'm looking back at the thousands of games I've witnessed in some capacity or another, and the only times that the umpire's calls (not the umpire) incorrectly favored one team was due to something along those lines--guy has trouble judging the outside pitch and two different types of pitchers, for example. 

I guess since Matt is an umpire and he thinks my comments undermine my credibility, can a moderator please delete this thread? I am obviously new around here and don't know how to delete it. Thanks

We made it to the second round in baseball playoffs this year and two plays stand out.

1.  First round game we are in the field with runner on first.  Guy at plate is trying to bunt to advance runner.  We are playing corners in and he bunts right at our first baseman.  He fields and throws to second. SS is playing like a first baseman and gets the throw well ahead of the runner but ump calls him safe.  To give you an idea how out he was the runner got up and started running off the field.  Needless to say a little bit of chaos ensued.  We finally get the runner out who was forced at second but in that rundown the batter who laid down the bunt made it to second.  So they got what they wanted but it didn't unfold the way they wanted it to.

I have the SS in class the next day and he asked if I saw the play and I said yeah.  He told me the ump in the field asked him if he was out and our guy said yeah.  Ump said well I guess I missed that one.  Our 3B overheard the conversation between coach and runner as he left the field.  Coach asked why he left the bag.  Runner said he was so far out that he didn't realize he was called safe.

2. Second round game we are hitting with bases loaded.  Our guy hitting hits a high hopper in front of the plate.  Catcher comes out to try and get it for a second but retreats when he sees pitcher has  a better chance.  Pitcher fields and flips to the catcher who is trying to find the plate slightly behind and left of him (he's just up the 3B line but not much).  In this process our runner slides into his legs and touches the plate before a tag.  Runner is called safe but I'm thinking he should have been out.  In the process of sliding into the catchers legs his feet are pushed onto the plate before the runner touches the plate.  Overall, I think the ump is safe in making this call but I know I would have argued it if I was the defensive coach.  I even said that to our principal who was standing with me.

Matt13 posted:

2019Lefty21 posted:

Kids said he touched plate (HR guy called out) just not sure how after a 15 minute injury delay anyone knows what anyone really saw. Everyone is gonna say the call was right or wrong based on the outcome they wanted/got. Just showing the other blown call at the plate because I feel there was definitely some bias by the home plate ump to start with. I had just never seen anything like that happen before. Kid jumped up in the air and came down on the plate or didn't....no photographic evidence one way or another...just a crazy chain of events in a win or go home game

If I see a runner miss a base, that's definitely sticking in my mind no matter how long a delay exists.

And I'm pretty sure there was no bias. Personally, that argument undermines the credibility of anyone who uses it. I've found that if there were calls that were actually missed, it was due to some consistent factor involving that particular player/team (i.e. the way a catcher was catching it, the way the MI would put tags down, etc.) or something mechanically wrong with the umpire. More often, though, the calls were mostly correct. I'm looking back at the thousands of games I've witnessed in some capacity or another, and the only times that the umpire's calls (not the umpire) incorrectly favored one team was due to something along those lines--guy has trouble judging the outside pitch and two different types of pitchers, for example. 

Wow!

Where I'm from, teams get hosed all the time. I wish it were the way you described. 

hshuler posted:

Matt13 posted:

2019Lefty21 posted:

Kids said he touched plate (HR guy called out) just not sure how after a 15 minute injury delay anyone knows what anyone really saw. Everyone is gonna say the call was right or wrong based on the outcome they wanted/got. Just showing the other blown call at the plate because I feel there was definitely some bias by the home plate ump to start with. I had just never seen anything like that happen before. Kid jumped up in the air and came down on the plate or didn't....no photographic evidence one way or another...just a crazy chain of events in a win or go home game

If I see a runner miss a base, that's definitely sticking in my mind no matter how long a delay exists.

And I'm pretty sure there was no bias. Personally, that argument undermines the credibility of anyone who uses it. I've found that if there were calls that were actually missed, it was due to some consistent factor involving that particular player/team (i.e. the way a catcher was catching it, the way the MI would put tags down, etc.) or something mechanically wrong with the umpire. More often, though, the calls were mostly correct. I'm looking back at the thousands of games I've witnessed in some capacity or another, and the only times that the umpire's calls (not the umpire) incorrectly favored one team was due to something along those lines--guy has trouble judging the outside pitch and two different types of pitchers, for example. 

Wow!

Where I'm from, teams get hosed all the time. I wish it were the way you described. 

No, they don't. You have umpires whose level of skill is commensurate with the level of baseball being played.

coach2709 posted:

We made it to the second round in baseball playoffs this year and two plays stand out.

1.  First round game we are in the field with runner on first.  Guy at plate is trying to bunt to advance runner.  We are playing corners in and he bunts right at our first baseman.  He fields and throws to second. SS is playing like a first baseman and gets the throw well ahead of the runner but ump calls him safe.  To give you an idea how out he was the runner got up and started running off the field.  Needless to say a little bit of chaos ensued.  We finally get the runner out who was forced at second but in that rundown the batter who laid down the bunt made it to second.  So they got what they wanted but it didn't unfold the way they wanted it to.

I have the SS in class the next day and he asked if I saw the play and I said yeah.  He told me the ump in the field asked him if he was out and our guy said yeah.  Ump said well I guess I missed that one.  Our 3B overheard the conversation between coach and runner as he left the field.  Coach asked why he left the bag.  Runner said he was so far out that he didn't realize he was called safe.

2. Second round game we are hitting with bases loaded.  Our guy hitting hits a high hopper in front of the plate.  Catcher comes out to try and get it for a second but retreats when he sees pitcher has  a better chance.  Pitcher fields and flips to the catcher who is trying to find the plate slightly behind and left of him (he's just up the 3B line but not much).  In this process our runner slides into his legs and touches the plate before a tag.  Runner is called safe but I'm thinking he should have been out.  In the process of sliding into the catchers legs his feet are pushed onto the plate before the runner touches the plate.  Overall, I think the ump is safe in making this call but I know I would have argued it if I was the defensive coach.  I even said that to our principal who was standing with me.

Why do you think the second runner should be out? I'm confused.

Matt13 posted:

hshuler posted:

Matt13 posted:

2019Lefty21 posted:

Kids said he touched plate (HR guy called out) just not sure how after a 15 minute injury delay anyone knows what anyone really saw. Everyone is gonna say the call was right or wrong based on the outcome they wanted/got. Just showing the other blown call at the plate because I feel there was definitely some bias by the home plate ump to start with. I had just never seen anything like that happen before. Kid jumped up in the air and came down on the plate or didn't....no photographic evidence one way or another...just a crazy chain of events in a win or go home game

If I see a runner miss a base, that's definitely sticking in my mind no matter how long a delay exists.

And I'm pretty sure there was no bias. Personally, that argument undermines the credibility of anyone who uses it. I've found that if there were calls that were actually missed, it was due to some consistent factor involving that particular player/team (i.e. the way a catcher was catching it, the way the MI would put tags down, etc.) or something mechanically wrong with the umpire. More often, though, the calls were mostly correct. I'm looking back at the thousands of games I've witnessed in some capacity or another, and the only times that the umpire's calls (not the umpire) incorrectly favored one team was due to something along those lines--guy has trouble judging the outside pitch and two different types of pitchers, for example. 

Wow!

Where I'm from, teams get hosed all the time. I wish it were the way you described. 

No, they don't. You have umpires whose level of skill is commensurate with the level of baseball being played.

Just like the major league ump who had a personal issue with David Ortiz, right?

Look, you can believe what you want to but there are honorable and corrupt people in all professions, including baseball umpires.  You can't make me believe that there aren't corruption umpires as I can't make you believe that there are, so we'll agree to disagree. 

hshuler posted:

Matt13 posted:

hshuler posted:

Matt13 posted:

2019Lefty21 posted:

Kids said he touched plate (HR guy called out) just not sure how after a 15 minute injury delay anyone knows what anyone really saw. Everyone is gonna say the call was right or wrong based on the outcome they wanted/got. Just showing the other blown call at the plate because I feel there was definitely some bias by the home plate ump to start with. I had just never seen anything like that happen before. Kid jumped up in the air and came down on the plate or didn't....no photographic evidence one way or another...just a crazy chain of events in a win or go home game

If I see a runner miss a base, that's definitely sticking in my mind no matter how long a delay exists.

And I'm pretty sure there was no bias. Personally, that argument undermines the credibility of anyone who uses it. I've found that if there were calls that were actually missed, it was due to some consistent factor involving that particular player/team (i.e. the way a catcher was catching it, the way the MI would put tags down, etc.) or something mechanically wrong with the umpire. More often, though, the calls were mostly correct. I'm looking back at the thousands of games I've witnessed in some capacity or another, and the only times that the umpire's calls (not the umpire) incorrectly favored one team was due to something along those lines--guy has trouble judging the outside pitch and two different types of pitchers, for example. 

Wow!

Where I'm from, teams get hosed all the time. I wish it were the way you described. 

No, they don't. You have umpires whose level of skill is commensurate with the level of baseball being played.

Just like the major league ump who had a personal issue with David Ortiz, right?

Look, you can believe what you want to but there are honorable and corrupt people in all professions, including baseball umpires.  You can't make me believe that there aren't corruption umpires as I can't make you believe that there are, so we'll agree to disagree. 

I'm not saying there aren't any anywhere in the world. I'm telling you that you're wrong in saying teams get hosed all the time. I'm telling you that you are paranoid--and bringing up a fourth-hand accusation that isn't even probative for the topic at hand isn't helping your cause.

Matt13 posted:

coach2709 posted:

We made it to the second round in baseball playoffs this year and two plays stand out.

1.  First round game we are in the field with runner on first.  Guy at plate is trying to bunt to advance runner.  We are playing corners in and he bunts right at our first baseman.  He fields and throws to second. SS is playing like a first baseman and gets the throw well ahead of the runner but ump calls him safe.  To give you an idea how out he was the runner got up and started running off the field.  Needless to say a little bit of chaos ensued.  We finally get the runner out who was forced at second but in that rundown the batter who laid down the bunt made it to second.  So they got what they wanted but it didn't unfold the way they wanted it to.

I have the SS in class the next day and he asked if I saw the play and I said yeah.  He told me the ump in the field asked him if he was out and our guy said yeah.  Ump said well I guess I missed that one.  Our 3B overheard the conversation between coach and runner as he left the field.  Coach asked why he left the bag.  Runner said he was so far out that he didn't realize he was called safe.

2. Second round game we are hitting with bases loaded.  Our guy hitting hits a high hopper in front of the plate.  Catcher comes out to try and get it for a second but retreats when he sees pitcher has  a better chance.  Pitcher fields and flips to the catcher who is trying to find the plate slightly behind and left of him (he's just up the 3B line but not much).  In this process our runner slides into his legs and touches the plate before a tag.  Runner is called safe but I'm thinking he should have been out.  In the process of sliding into the catchers legs his feet are pushed onto the plate before the runner touches the plate.  Overall, I think the ump is safe in making this call but I know I would have argued it if I was the defensive coach.  I even said that to our principal who was standing with me.

Why do you think the second runner should be out? I'm confused.

I think I'm confused as well.  Which situation are you talking about? 

Perhaps the runner didn't miss the plate.  Maybe he stepped right on it, but it was covered in dirt by the other umpire who was showing that he properly rotated : )

coach2709 posted:

Matt13 posted:

coach2709 posted:

We made it to the second round in baseball playoffs this year and two plays stand out.

1.  First round game we are in the field with runner on first.  Guy at plate is trying to bunt to advance runner.  We are playing corners in and he bunts right at our first baseman.  He fields and throws to second. SS is playing like a first baseman and gets the throw well ahead of the runner but ump calls him safe.  To give you an idea how out he was the runner got up and started running off the field.  Needless to say a little bit of chaos ensued.  We finally get the runner out who was forced at second but in that rundown the batter who laid down the bunt made it to second.  So they got what they wanted but it didn't unfold the way they wanted it to.

I have the SS in class the next day and he asked if I saw the play and I said yeah.  He told me the ump in the field asked him if he was out and our guy said yeah.  Ump said well I guess I missed that one.  Our 3B overheard the conversation between coach and runner as he left the field.  Coach asked why he left the bag.  Runner said he was so far out that he didn't realize he was called safe.

2. Second round game we are hitting with bases loaded.  Our guy hitting hits a high hopper in front of the plate.  Catcher comes out to try and get it for a second but retreats when he sees pitcher has  a better chance.  Pitcher fields and flips to the catcher who is trying to find the plate slightly behind and left of him (he's just up the 3B line but not much).  In this process our runner slides into his legs and touches the plate before a tag.  Runner is called safe but I'm thinking he should have been out.  In the process of sliding into the catchers legs his feet are pushed onto the plate before the runner touches the plate.  Overall, I think the ump is safe in making this call but I know I would have argued it if I was the defensive coach.  I even said that to our principal who was standing with me.

Why do you think the second runner should be out? I'm confused.

I think I'm confused as well.  Which situation are you talking about? 

The play at home...unless I'm reading it incorrectly, you thought the runner should have been called out?

Yeah but there wasn't a second runner.  I was talking about the runner from third sliding in on the little squib back to the pitcher.  What I saw (which I will readily admit could be wrong) is the runner pushed the catchers feet onto the plate before he had a chance to touch the plate.  Since it was a force out then he's out.  The way everything was lined up it just seemed the catcher hit the plate before the runner but it was bang bang.  

Does that help?

coach2709 posted:

Yeah but there wasn't a second runner.  I was talking about the runner from third sliding in on the little squib back to the pitcher.  What I saw (which I will readily admit could be wrong) is the runner pushed the catchers feet onto the plate before he had a chance to touch the plate.  Since it was a force out then he's out.  The way everything was lined up it just seemed the catcher hit the plate before the runner but it was bang bang.  

Does that help?

Yep, I missed the bases loaded part.  Thanks.