Havent heard much about beach district on here as in years past,,,used to be some lively debates which i admit i got a kick out of,,,Is Kellam so dominate this year that there is no question about the outcome ?
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If Kellam plays their best game every game...yes, it is decided.
Agree with Redbird. No other team in the district seems to have the power or depth to be able to compete with Kellam this season.
Kellam is real good. To put them in perspective, turner bishop has been a dominant player over the years....he hits 7th in their order. cox, fc and pa each lost quality players that they were expecting to return but are not playing. Cox may have been hit the worse loosing 2 of their 3 returning pitchers including last season poy mccabe.
Somebody is going to beat them, or should I say they are going to beat themselves by taking a team to lightly. Their are a couple of pitchers in the Beach who have the potential to silence the Kellam offense, the kid from tallwood comes to mind (not sure of name but also play ss) and Green run gave them a run for 4-5 innings. Now I will say if they stay focused and don't have a mental let down they probably will not lose a game. I was at the game friday and they seemed to be playing with a purpose, even saw a couple of scouts checking out the kellam pitcher.
Kellam will not lose to Tallwood.
Originally Posted by redbird5:
Kellam will not lose to Tallwood.
I don't think they will either, I doubt Tallwood will pitch their ace, I know I wouldn't! My point is their are pitchers out their that are capable of containing kellam batters (notice I didn't say shut down) but I doubt anybody will use their ace at this point, I would save my ace for a game I am suppose to win.
If you don't throw your best, how do you expect to beat them? Aren't you telling our team "yeah, we've got no shot at this game. Lets get the next one."? Pretty defeatist approach to the game, don't you think?
Originally Posted by redbird5:
If you don't throw your best, how do you expect to beat them? Aren't you telling our team "yeah, we've got no shot at this game. Lets get the next one."? Pretty defeatist approach to the game, don't you think?
I agree whole heartedly with you redbird but unfortuantley this happens and seems to be the way a lot of high school coaches think. Never understood playing for second place attitude.
Originally Posted by SFaison:
Originally Posted by redbird5:
If you don't throw your best, how do you expect to beat them? Aren't you telling our team "yeah, we've got no shot at this game. Lets get the next one."? Pretty defeatist approach to the game, don't you think?
I agree whole heartedly with you redbird but unfortuantley this happens and seems to be the way a lot of high school coaches think. Never understood playing for second place attitude.
I completely agree with both of you regarding th "defeatist approach" and "attitude". There is a scenario where this makes sense though. If I were to be objective and say that barring something completely unforeseen, or outright wizardry, my team is playing for 2nd place...here's what I know:
If I can get a no. 2 seed in my district, I have the best chance of making the regional tournament. As the season progresses, and with that in mind, if I am playing someone who is directly competing for that no. 2 seed, they are getting my ace, rather than Kellam, if all other things are equal.
GoHeels,
I agree about the scenario you outlined, however, that can't be determined in the first 3 weeks of the season. (Not that you implied that)
Originally Posted by GoHeels:
Originally Posted by SFaison:
Originally Posted by redbird5:
If you don't throw your best, how do you expect to beat them? Aren't you telling our team "yeah, we've got no shot at this game. Lets get the next one."? Pretty defeatist approach to the game, don't you think?
I agree whole heartedly with you redbird but unfortuantley this happens and seems to be the way a lot of high school coaches think. Never understood playing for second place attitude.
I completely agree with both of you regarding th "defeatist approach" and "attitude". There is a scenario where this makes sense though. If I were to be objective and say that barring something completely unforeseen, or outright wizardry, my team is playing for 2nd place...here's what I know:
If I can get a no. 2 seed in my district, I have the best chance of making the regional tournament. As the season progresses, and with that in mind, if I am playing someone who is directly competing for that no. 2 seed, they are getting my ace, rather than Kellam, if all other things are equal.
This is a good discussion. I see arguments for both sides. Go Heels I see your point and I can't fault your reasoning. Why give Kellam an extra opportunity to see your Ace before the district championship. Gamesmanship has always been a part of the sport.
Yes can see both sides of the coin. If you are one of the weaker district teams that may potentially have a slight shot at making district tournament for first time in years I Can see the point about saving your better pitcher for a game that will make a difference, but on the other hand on an individual basis you won't know how your man stacks up unless you have him on the bump against the best.Originally Posted by mathews41:
Originally Posted by GoHeels:
Originally Posted by SFaison:
Originally Posted by redbird5:
If you don't throw your best, how do you expect to beat them? Aren't you telling our team "yeah, we've got no shot at this game. Lets get the next one."? Pretty defeatist approach to the game, don't you think?
I agree whole heartedly with you redbird but unfortuantley this happens and seems to be the way a lot of high school coaches think. Never understood playing for second place attitude.
I completely agree with both of you regarding th "defeatist approach" and "attitude". There is a scenario where this makes sense though. If I were to be objective and say that barring something completely unforeseen, or outright wizardry, my team is playing for 2nd place...here's what I know:
If I can get a no. 2 seed in my district, I have the best chance of making the regional tournament. As the season progresses, and with that in mind, if I am playing someone who is directly competing for that no. 2 seed, they are getting my ace, rather than Kellam, if all other things are equal.
This is a good discussion. I see arguments for both sides. Go Heels I see your point and I can't fault your reasoning. Why give Kellam an extra opportunity to see your Ace before the district championship. Gamesmanship has always been a part of the sport.
Again, what message does it send to your team? You are teaching them to not compete and conceding a win.
And, the "I'm hiding my ace until it matters" argument is weaksauce. If the kid can throw, let him go attack hitters in the regular season and, if you want some more, here he is again in the tourney. That stuff doesn't matter. That's not gamesmanship.
Originally Posted by redbird5:
Again, what message does it send to your team? You are teaching them to not compete and conceding a win.
And, the "I'm hiding my ace until it matters" argument is weaksauce. If the kid can throw, let him go attack hitters in the regular season and, if you want some more, here he is again in the tourney. That stuff doesn't matter. That's not gamesmanship.
Play to win the game you're in.
This is a fun topic and one that bring back a very bad memory from back in the day "82".
I played on a HS team in Rch, we dominated the regular season and we threw our Ace at everyone. Well, we played in the regional championship and the #2 team pitched "their Ace for the 1st time against our Ace who they had already seen twice. Guess what….their Ace won 1-0. They won the State and we went home. So "gamesmanship", In the words of Bill Murray from Caddyshack "I got that going for me", but I don't have the State Championship!! I guess all I am saying is Baseball "could be" a little more than handing the ball to your Ace every time he is able to pitch. I am sure there are examples of when it has worked.
Originally Posted by pirates21: Isn't this the first year he has played in the past 3? I seem to recall he was hurt the last two seasons.
Kellam is real good. To put them in perspective, turner bishop has been a dominant player over the years....he hits 7th in their order. cox, fc and pa each lost quality players that they were expecting to return but are not playing. Cox may have been hit the worse loosing 2 of their 3 returning pitchers including last season poy mccabe.
Originally Posted by monstercup:
Originally Posted by redbird5:
Kellam will not lose to Tallwood.
I don't think they will either, I doubt Tallwood will pitch their ace, I know I wouldn't! My point is their are pitchers out their that are capable of containing kellam batters (notice I didn't say shut down) but I doubt anybody will use their ace at this point, I would save my ace for a game I am suppose to win.
Monster, I agree with one point. There are quite a few pitchers who can contain that lineup. The problem is the pitching rules this year require teams to watch innings more closely. GR and Salem were both in the game with Kellam late but ran out of arms. Kellam has the arms to save innings for 2 or 3 games a week with no problem. That is where their dominance will show. Yeah I've seen the 10 plus runs in those games but that lineup didn't do it until the talent on the mound dropped off significantly.
Originally Posted by rainoutsux:
Originally Posted by pirates21: Isn't this the first year he has played in the past 3? I seem to recall he was hurt the last two seasons.
Kellam is real good. To put them in perspective, turner bishop has been a dominant player over the years....he hits 7th in their order. cox, fc and pa each lost quality players that they were expecting to return but are not playing. Cox may have been hit the worse loosing 2 of their 3 returning pitchers including last season poy mccabe.
The point is Kellam is deep which means they have the ability to put a player like Turner in the 7th spot. I don't know all the teams but I have seen FC, Cox, PA, and Landstown play and chances are he is in the 3 or 4 spot on those teams.
Originally Posted by pirates21:
This is a fun topic and one that bring back a very bad memory from back in the day "82".
I played on a HS team in Rch, we dominated the regular season and we threw our Ace at everyone. Well, we played in the regional championship and the #2 team pitched "their Ace for the 1st time against our Ace who they had already seen twice. Guess what….their Ace won 1-0. They won the State and we went home. So "gamesmanship", In the words of Bill Murray from Caddyshack "I got that going for me", but I don't have the State Championship!! I guess all I am saying is Baseball "could be" a little more than handing the ball to your Ace every time he is able to pitch. I am sure there are examples of when it has worked.
There are arguments/examples for both sides. I was fortunate to win a couple of championships and we did it by competing every game.
As a hitter, I can tell you that not seeing a pitcher during the season and then seeing him in a tourney is not that big of a deal. MAYBE...and very slightly so...it COULD POSSIBLY have an effect on hitters late in the year. (i.e. seeing the same guy within a week) But, seeing him in the 3rd week of the season and then again in the tourney...no effect. I'm a different hitter by then and he is most likely a different pitcher then as well.
Bottom line is you should play to win every game and you do that by putting your best available out their to play. Winning starts with a positive attitude which breeds confidence. Players need to have it in themselves and in the coaches, Kellam has that confidence. In my opinion parity in the beach is pretty good amongst all the teams (Kellam being the exception) so playing for second doesn't make sense. I hope somebody steps up and challenges Kellam, they are going to need that experience later on, I think they (Kellam) have something special going on and have tremendous potential to accomplish something awesome.
So who's going to step up and challenge them? Who's left? Tallwood, Kempsville, Landstown, Bayside? any of those teams have guy's that can challenge Kellam hitters? FC threw the best they had and then some! to no avail and they where supposed to be the team that could possible beat Kellam. I don't think they will be challenged until they face the SE teams in regionals.
Originally Posted by baseballdadto2:
Yes can see both sides of the coin. If you are one of the weaker district teams that may potentially have a slight shot at making district tournament for first time in years I Can see the point about saving your better pitcher for a game that will make a difference, but on the other hand on an individual basis you won't know how your man stacks up unless you have him on the bump against the best.Originally Posted by mathews41:
Originally Posted by GoHeels:
Originally Posted by SFaison:
Originally Posted by redbird5:
If you don't throw your best, how do you expect to beat them? Aren't you telling our team "yeah, we've got no shot at this game. Lets get the next one."? Pretty defeatist approach to the game, don't you think?
I agree whole heartedly with you redbird but unfortuantley this happens and seems to be the way a lot of high school coaches think. Never understood playing for second place attitude.
I completely agree with both of you regarding th "defeatist approach" and "attitude". There is a scenario where this makes sense though. If I were to be objective and say that barring something completely unforeseen, or outright wizardry, my team is playing for 2nd place...here's what I know:
If I can get a no. 2 seed in my district, I have the best chance of making the regional tournament. As the season progresses, and with that in mind, if I am playing someone who is directly competing for that no. 2 seed, they are getting my ace, rather than Kellam, if all other things are equal.
This is a good discussion. I see arguments for both sides. Go Heels I see your point and I can't fault your reasoning. Why give Kellam an extra opportunity to see your Ace before the district championship. Gamesmanship has always been a part of the sport.
My reasoning has nothing to do with gamesmanship. It has to do with basic mathematics! Two teams move on to the regional tournament. If the No. 1 seed is all but locked up, then I am playing for No. 2. In that scenario, and again, if all things are equal, I'm throwing my best arm against the other team who is vying for the remaining regional spot. Hence, I'm trying to defeat the opponent who presents the biggest threat to my team continuing our season.
If my team beats Kellam this year, but does not move on to the Regional Tournament, who gives a crap?!?!?! The ultimate goal is to play as long as you can. Therefore, putting yourself in a position to compete for Championships!
Hey Monstercup, welcome to the board,
If you were at the Kellam game, how could you say that FC threw ther best to no avail? I mean, Kellam is a great team, a few FC arms held kellam in check for a few innings, not to say that Kellam wouldn"t blow them out anyways, but for 1 FC pitcher, that was his 1ST time all year on the mound, and that lefty will be tops, lefty, in the Beach by year's end, and the righty held kellam to 0 runs in 2 and 2/3 inngs, so yes kellam won, but FC will be better, all teams will be better, Right now, no team is within 10 runs of Kellam, but that gap will close, or also widen if Bishop gets healthy, USA lost to Russia by 16 goals, only to lose the next time they play, just saying, anything is possible,, lol
Hey Pilot, glad to see that your still alive fella ! I agree with everything except the LHP pitcher comment... I would be willing to bet that IF FC's fine lefty is better than say "Turner Bishop" by years end... His parents won't be paying much for him to go to college !!!
thus the comment, the gap will widen if Bishop gets healthy, lol
Hitters most likely will not get a hit every AB. The value of a good hitter is that he will hit by the 2nd or 3rd AB. That is what you see with Kellam. To say, Green Run's P (or any other P) held them scoreless for 4 innings is shortsighted, IMO. So, he held them in check for 1 AB? The Tallwood pitcher is solid but he is normally a SS (Culver Lamb). Who will fill his shoes at SS when he is on the mound?
Let Kellam have the auto bid. Nobody's gonna beat them until the playoffs. I got FC getting the 2 seed for regionals. They're a scrappy group that will get hot and stay hot throughout the year. If they can avoid the traditional slump in the second half of the season then there's no one else in the district that'll take the 2 seed away from them.
Originally Posted by Crew:
Let Kellam have the auto bid. Nobody's gonna beat them until the playoffs. I got FC getting the 2 seed for regionals. They're a scrappy group that will get hot and stay hot throughout the year. If they can avoid the traditional slump in the second half of the season then there's no one else in the district that'll take the 2 seed away from them.
I think 2nd seed is wide open and in no way FC a lock. Salem, Landstown, and Green Run will have a play in the #2 seed.
Gotta agree with Playright that FC is NOT a lock for 2nd place. On paper they have the players to make the regionals, but we all know what that is worth... Landstown and Kempsville should definitely be in the hunt for a regional bid this season.
All missing the point. There is no such thing as the Beach District anymore only the Conference that the team is slotted to.
The game of the year on the Southside should everyone stay heathly and do what they are supposed to do is when Kellam plays Great Bridge and see who can push a couple across to advance in the State Tournament.
By
Landstown agreed. Salem concerns me with loss of upperclassmen i.e Stasky, Newman, etc. Haven't seen Green Run or Kville this year.
Luv,
Isn't that scenario for next year ?
Yes the conferences start with the 2013-2014 school year.
The beach district as a whole is not strong at all this year, yeah kellam is clearly on top, but even they arent nearly as strong as kellam teams in the past, 1-11 every team in the beach used to be competitive, the beach as a whole just isnt nearly as good
tallwood has now played 5 games in the beach district, culver lamb being 2-0 on the mound, but defensively hasnt played an inning at SS all year
Originally Posted by redbird5:
Hitters most likely will not get a hit every AB. The value of a good hitter is that he will hit by the 2nd or 3rd AB. That is what you see with Kellam. To say, Green Run's P (or any other P) held them scoreless for 4 innings is shortsighted, IMO. So, he held them in check for 1 AB? The Tallwood pitcher is solid but he is normally a SS (Culver Lamb). Who will fill his shoes at SS when he is on the mound?
i was at the tallwood FC game, in which FC won 3-1, FC very unimpressive, very beatable pitching, tallwood just had a tough job staying back, tallwood pitching did a very good job of containing FC hitters, and didnt even throw their ace, FC is very beatable and will be lucky to be 2nd in their district this year
Originally Posted by Crew:
Let Kellam have the auto bid. Nobody's gonna beat them until the playoffs. I got FC getting the 2 seed for regionals. They're a scrappy group that will get hot and stay hot throughout the year. If they can avoid the traditional slump in the second half of the season then there's no one else in the district that'll take the 2 seed away from them.
After seeing the beach for a long time, i see a solid kellam team and 10 AVERAGE baseball teams....as far as seeding you might as well flip a coin.
as sad as it is to say even kellam who is a solid baseball team who clearly looks unbeatable this year......after wathing them play i see a decent team who 3 years ago who would finish middle of the pack...
Originally Posted by Canes1:
tallwood has now played 5 games in the beach district, culver lamb being 2-0 on the mound, but defensively hasnt played an inning at SS all year
Originally Posted by redbird5:
Hitters most likely will not get a hit every AB. The value of a good hitter is that he will hit by the 2nd or 3rd AB. That is what you see with Kellam. To say, Green Run's P (or any other P) held them scoreless for 4 innings is shortsighted, IMO. So, he held them in check for 1 AB? The Tallwood pitcher is solid but he is normally a SS (Culver Lamb). Who will fill his shoes at SS when he is on the mound?
Hmmmm...we plays SS for his summer team...was recruited as a SS...but hasn't played an inning for Tallwood at SS. Humor me...where is he playing?