Being converted from Catcher to Pitcher

Welcome to posting here!  Your participation is very much appreciated!

I suppose some will disagree with me here but in terms of college, if he is determined to be a hitter find a place where he can be a Catcher, that you will trust will allow him to remain a position player, if at all possible.

I would most definitely advise against pitching and catching in the same weekend, that is playing with fire.

How hard did he throw from the mound?

Thanks for replying.  Believe it or not...this is the first post I have ever made on any platform.   I am sure I will break protocol in how to respond

I agree about doing both in the same weekend and in fact they had him start the next morning in Game 3.  The dugout coach pulled him after 1 inning by saying " hey kid does your arm hurt?  your fast ball is down 10MPH from yesterday".  Which is the only way we know about velocity because he told my son that he was 86-88 the night before.

That's the issue - it's really clear that he can't go through this recruiting process doing both.  It was the plan but now its mandated to shut the arm down for a while.  The challenge is he's really only pitched 10 innings in games in his life.  There might be something there for him to take seriously.  And to be honest he may not truly drive the ball enough to be a catcher at the same level. 

So - do you try to pick the position with the best potential future, or do you stick with what you love? 

Candidly - as a father thinking long term I lean towards becoming a pitcher if that gets you to the best possible school you can go to.  As a father trying to let my son figure out his own path I am actively looking for other people's experiences because I want him to LOVE playing in college.   I'd love to provide the best guidance knowing that I probably have a bias

My 2019 has gotten interest for his MI play and for his pitching. Certain schools like him for 1 thing while other schools like him for the other. His dream has always been to be the guy hitting the game winning HR, not the guy striking out the last batter for the win. I would never want either of my sons to give up on their dreams just so they could get a scholarship to a better school, or get a job making more money. Life is too short and goes by way to quickly.

Son was 3-year starting SS and RHP in HS.  He was recruited by a couple schools as SS and a couple as P.  When school he committed to offered....they said "you're a P, but you'll get a chance to play both ways".  That never happened...though he did get a few AB's his freshman year.  Gave it up sophomore year then started hitting again this fall and has a shot to be the DH next spring.  He has never seen a ball in the IF or OF even though his team's defense is at the same level as a lot of good HS teams...meaning not very good for a D1 school.   I guess my point is that make sure you know what you're getting into and know that it may not end up exactly what you are told.  Would my son have gone there if they had said "you're a PO?"  I doubt it, though he is happy now and loves the school and program, but at the time he wanted to play IF and hit also.  Good luck, whichever way he goes

ALF648 posted:

Good day.  I will try to be concise. But will try to give you all enough context to frame your opinions

I have lurked on this forum for 5 years and joined last fall.  This is my first post.

3 sons - eldest is a 2019 Catcher and emerging RHP.  He started to pitch this past summer at the suggestion of his summer ball coach. He has been told for years that he has a "live arm".   He's 6'1, 175.

He played at Headfirst Jupiter this past weekend.  Across most if not all metrics he was in the top 3 for catchers - 7.02 60, 87 mph exit velo, 1.96 pop (probably 10 kids sub 2.0) and threw 90MPH in a catcher OH velocity (in gear).

He caught game 1 and pitched the second game.  He was throwing hard and it seemed well.  Following that outing he started to get a very serious amount of attention from coaches of top academic programs.  However, all of them are of the opinion that  - as one coach said " well, you are a pitcher now..."  He has always thought of himself as a catcher.  Driving to the airport he reaffirmed that he wants to be a hitter.  Frankly the speed with which this all happened was a little overwhelming.

I have read the threads on catcher-pitcher and they read like and elbow/arm horror story.  I recognize he will have to choose.  As i see it, the choice is decide now to become a pitcher, begin to actively learn how to pitch and try to get a spot at a high academic D1 or try to figure out as fast as possible which high academic D3s might think he could catch for them.

So - for anyone who might have had a son go through this - where the bright shiny object could lead a player to be converted from a position they love - how did that go for your son?  Do you have any lessons learned both in terms of the baseball implications but more importantly challenges/emotions of changing mindset?

Thanks

 

 

 

 

It certainly seems like he has a tremendous arm, but are you saying his catcher velocity was 90 mph? The highest recorded by PG this year for the class of 2019 is 84. Or did you mean outfield velocity? Or mound velocity? (and 90 mph would be great for either of those)

It sounds like your son is likely to have some great opportunities, so for that, congrats.

I'm not clear on your question  -- is it:

1 - I believe my son will have more opportunities in college as a PO, therefore he is going to change now, during the fall of his HS Junior year, from C to PO.  How do we go about this?

2 - I believe my son will have more opportunities in college as a PO.  If he does have to convert from C to PO in college, how does he go about that?

Those are very different questions.    Maybe a better question would be:

3 - I believe my son will have more opportunities in college as a PO, so for the next year or so, how can he show himself to college coaches as both a C and a RHP without shredding his arm in the process?

ALF, welcome to the posting side.  Various thoughts to consider...

Based on his current age, throwing velo and size, he is someone that many will project to be throwing 90+ in college.  So, he will automatically get a lot of attention as a P.  It sounds like he is an athletic and talented catcher as well.  That will factor into a few things.  Since he is a talented catcher, I don't think the lack of innings pitched will be a deterrent.  In fact, many will tell you that is a good thing - far more bullets left.  There are far more roster spots available as a P, so from a pure numbers standpoint, he has more demand and options as a P.

He went to Headfirst and you have mentioned targeting high academics, whether D1 or D3.  D3 recruits quite late in the process, so you have plenty of time there.  While D1 certainly recruits earlier, I would say that, generally, the high academic D1's are not on the fast track that some other D1's are.  Additionally, if there is a kid that projects to throw 90+, many will find a spot, and some athletic $.  That said, know that a large chunk of scholarship $ is still likely to come from academics.

Of course, for a player to go through the rigors of playing college baseball and balancing a heavy school load, he must love to play.  I think most young players to have the dream as a position player more so than a pitcher.  Some eventually come around to recognizing that their dream can be realized more as a P than a position player and find the same kind of love in that pursuit.  Some do not.  Every kid is different.  If your son is currently still holding on to the dream as a position player, I would not deter him from that direction.   If the thought of making it as a P becomes more appealing to him at some point, then you can address it at that time and likely still have plenty of options.  I think that many of the truly great catchers were highly encouraged, at some point, to become pitchers because of their arm strength but they declined because being a position player was much more their passion.

As a side note... we have had catchers in our HS program who were converted to pitchers either in college or later in HS.  One challenge I have seen with those guys is that they tend to throw more straight over the top (as catchers should do) so their fastballs are straight, not much movement.  No matter how hard you throw, straight fastballs get hit hard by good hitters.

Another side note... the 10 mph drop is quite concerning.

To the OP, it is a good position to be in.  At least he has marketable skills that have drawn the interest of coaches.  Most good baseball players have been/are good at multiple positions.  However, at some point, they will most likely have to choose one or the other.  

My son was no different.  He can really swing the bat, and he has immense power, but he ran slow, and he throws pretty well from the left side.  They let him bat some in JC as a Freshman, and he produced pretty good results.  I, along with many others, think he has a bat that could play at a high level, but his pitching was his most marketable skill. 

If coaches are telling you that he is a possible D-1 guy as a pitcher, and others are saying a D-3 catcher, I would focus on pitching to see where it could take him.  

I have found out in many cases, the coaches at the next level(s) will put you at the position that ultimately help the team the most.  This may not necessarily be  the position you want, or in your opinion your "best" position.  If you want a chance to play that is now your best position.  That being said, the position which keeps your son loving the game is the one to do.  If he wants to be a catcher or position player the bat is what most coaches see.  If can hit you will play, somewhere on the field.  Son was never a pitcher, catcher or 1st base, but played all other positions (including DH) through his college career.  Played every game from freshman -jr. (aside a few games after being banged up) and it made him very marketable.  Hopefully there is a position he loves and he performs the best.  It is doable but very difficult to be a 2 way player at the next level.

Alf648, I posted a question awhile ago asking if it was a problem to be both.  I was surprised by the answers as well as looking on the PG website at all the top catchers...because most of them had pitching velo's too.  Here is the thread:

http://community.hsbaseballweb...er-is-that-a-problem

2019 Dad - definitely not behind the plate catcher velo.  They had all the catchers finish their pop time work and run out and throw w/ a crow hop into a net.

JCG -  my fundmental question is do you help guide a kid to what he's best at or to what he loves?  Said another way - his dream school was always a bit of a pipe dream as catcher, but now seems very possible as a catcher.  If that's true, then he has choices to make which I think are hard for a 16 year old kid.  Baseball for him is dirt and bruises and BP and it's just different as a PO.  I think the suddenness is making his head spin and I'm not helping very much I fear

Cabbage - your third paragraph is spot on.  If you  don't love to play then it's really just work.  I think he's starting to really enjoy pitching but time will tell.  The bummer is that it's really hard to play these 2 specific positions.  outfielders and MIF can come in and pitch, but pitching and catching just seems like it doesnt work at all. 

What does your son want to do?

I think you will find his projection as a hitter will determine his catching prospects "level".  His arm velocity will give him options other catchers wouldn't get. i.e. one D1 team my son talked to said they'd convert him to a pitcher  if the catching thing didn't work out.  My son threw about 88/89.  When my son was in the minor leagues his team converted a catcher into a relief pitcher who just played in the WS.  Worked out ok for him....as long as injuries are avoided..... 

CACO3Girl - Thanks for that.  Just keeps underlining the main point that you really can't do both.

Cabbage - neglected to mention that yes it was pretty clear to me that his arm was tired.  I have to say that i was happy he got out of the inning with very few pitches and perhaps more importantly that the level of care shown by the  coache at HF was remarkable.

ALF648 posted:

 

I have read the threads on catcher-pitcher and they read like and elbow/arm horror story.  I recognize he will have to choose.  As i see it, the choice is decide now to become a pitcher, begin to actively learn how to pitch and try to get a spot at a high academic D1 or try to figure out as fast as possible which high academic D3s might think he could catch for them. 

IMO, he has at least one other option to consider. He might be able to pitch+hit and DH or 1B at a D3. It's not common for D3 starters to be in the lineup, but more common than at D1s. If he's one of the 9 best hitters on the team, they will want him in the lineup. One of my son's teammates (D3) pitched 91 innings and made 220 PAs last season.

ALF648 - Fwiw, my son (a young 2019) was at the same event in Jupiter this past weekend. We had registered for the showcase a bit late and had to register as a pitcher/catcher, not a primary catcher as the catching position was wait listed. He pitched during the HF showcase, but he's not a pitcher normally.

Your son's measurables were very solid. I certainly believe you that more than a few of the academic coaches noticed. But if your son loves to catch and hit, then would he be happy as a pitcher only? I know that my son wants to be a catcher. Period. He can play other positions (serviceable), but he is happiest by far when catching. That said, he wants to play ball. And if his only choice would be to hang up the spikes or pitch, he'd pitch. But it sounds like your son will have D3 interest as a catcher. And as HF noted (can't recall if it was the Graziano or Sullivan speech), perhaps not best to get hung up on D1 vs D3 and just figure out the mix that makes your son the happiest?

I wouldn't put too much into arm velo drop off on day 2 unless he's experiencing pain in the elbow or shoulder. Fwiw, my kid was gassed by day 2. His arm velo also was noticeably off, though he doesn't throw as hard as your son. He had had a workout for a college RC who was in our area on Fri (arranged by a local coach). Probably used up a bit of his arm on that Fri, but the RC was from a D1 academic and only in town that day so there seemed little real choice but to accept the invite. But then he caught and pitched on Sat, and repeated it on Sun. It wore him down and his mechanics suffered (both catching and pitching)

Not for anything, but did the warm ups before catcher pops seem extensive? With the throwing my son did on Fri, then warm ups for max velo, then max velo measure, then warm ups for catcher pops, etc he said his shoulder felt tired before the pops were even timed. I timed him and could see his pop times increase as warm ups progressed. The difference between his Fri workout pops (timed by a RC) and Sat pops (at HF) was substantial. 

p.s. This is my 1st post as well. Registered a few weeks ago. Been lurking for 2 years.

trchala posted:

....

I wouldn't put too much into arm velo drop off on day 2 unless he's experiencing pain in the elbow or shoulder. Fwiw, my kid was gassed by day 2. His arm velo also was noticeably off, though he doesn't throw as hard as your son. He had had a workout for a college RC who was in our area on Fri (arranged by a local coach). Probably used up a bit of his arm on that Fri, but the RC was from a D1 academic and only in town that day so there seemed little real choice but to accept the invite. But then he caught and pitched on Sat, and repeated it on Sun. It wore him down and his mechanics suffered (both catching and pitching)

....

p.s. This is my 1st post as well. Registered a few weeks ago. Been lurking for 2 years.

Welcome to you as well, trchala.  Nice first post.

I am going to rebuke a few of your comments.  Please take it as the helpful advise that it is meant to be...

1.  There is a difference between "arm velo drop off on day 2" and 10 mph drop off.  Some drop, depending on situation, can be expected and within a noticeable but reasonable range.  10 mph is not a reasonable range.

2.  You and your sons (including ALF) are going to have to figure out in a hurry that there will be times real soon that you have to say no.  You guys and your sons are going to have to be the primary protectors of your sons' arms.  This means scheduling down time (as it sounds ALF has done), regardless of the fact that there will be continuous key recruiting events during every month in the next year or so.  This means defining to coaches what pitch counts and pitcher/catcher combination uses you are comfortable and not comfortable with.  This means scheduling events with proper spacing, taking into account HS schedule, instructor schedule, travel schedule, etc., and being very cautious about those extra opportunities for exposure that WILL present themselves.  This means communication with all coaches and instructors involved so that there are no overlaps that someone wasn't aware of.  You may have survived it to date and you may even make it through the recruiting process with no issues.  But there is a really good chance it will catch up at some point.

A pitching or catching workout for a college coach on Friday followed by a two-day showcase Saturday and Sunday in which he both pitched and caught both days is pushing it by pretty much everyone's standards.  

Cabbagedad - 

I don't want to hijack ALF's thread, but good advice (thanks!) and you're right. This weekend was a bit much to say the least. For sure my son's arm velo didn't drop off by 10 mph, but he throws 81-82 max and was probably down to 76-78 on Sun.

Yeah, it was unfortunate scheduling. We signed up for HF in Sept. The workout for the RC came at us out of the blue and only a few weeks ago. He did well at the workout, but this academic D1 doesn't have 2019 roster spot for a catcher (wish we knew that beforehand). But RC liked him enough to say that he'd pass along my kid's contact info and impressions to other RCs that he knows who are still recruiting for 2019 catchers. Will see if this materializes into something - or not.

He's historically been a durable kid. But agreed that it'll catch up with him at some point if not managed.

  I know..  easier said than done... but those "out of the blue" opportunities will keep coming up on you.  So, better to have your guidelines in place to help protect against jumping on too many.

Sounds like that RC workout was a good connection meeting.  My son just finished his college playing career and is in his first year as an assistant coach.  I just got off the phone with him - he had just come out of the HC's office after sitting in on several calls just as you described... two HC's sharing info on recruits they had seen that don't fit their own needs but maybe each others.  And this was, in one case, across a smaller division to a perennial Top 25 D1 program.    

Welcome Alf648 and TRCHALA,

My son played 4 positions before his sophmore year. Then they took the bat out of his hands and made him a PO. By that time he was pitching almost 90.

The coaches told him, son, you will get a great scholarship as a pitcher, maybe a chance to play professional ball.  As a ss, catcher or 3rd baseman, not so much.

They were absolutely correct.

Agree with others, your sons will have to figure out quickly what they want to do, because in today's world of recruiting, with the velo needed to get noticed, YOU CAN'T DO BOTH, and coaches shouldn't expect you to do both. 

Unless your sons can hit the cover off the ball, keep this in mind, programs use 1 catcher ( with the need for a backup) and 15-17 pitchers. 

Now, keep in mind that there are catchers who get converted to pitchers, in college and in professional ball. But you have to get there first.

Which position do you feel your sons will have more opportunity to make a college roster?

It's really hard to not being able to hit, when you love to hit and be in the lineup everyday, but as weird as it is, pitchers really enjoy being pitchers.

JMO

My son is a D1 pitcher.....with regard to catchers needing to be able to hit, he would probably rather have the opposite.  He could care less if his catcher can hit if he's A GOOD CATCHER...meaning catch the balls he should catch and maybe even some that he shouldn't be able to get to....lol.  Arm good enough to stop guys from stealing, field bunts, etc.  If he can hit, that's a bonus lol....whether the coaches will feel that way is a different thing, but a good catcher makes for an awfully happen pitching staff

trchala posted:

 

He's historically been a durable kid. But agreed that it'll catch up with him at some point if not managed.

trchala, I don't mean to single you out, but this reminds me of several sayings that I read during the World Series. 

"Every pitcher is dealing until he's not."
"Every player is clutch until he's not."
"Excellent hitters are only slumping until they're not."

So I'll add that a guy is only durable until he's not. Good advice from cabbagedad.

Buckeye 2015 posted:

My son is a D1 pitcher.....with regard to catchers needing to be able to hit, he would probably rather have the opposite.  He could care less if his catcher can hit if he's A GOOD CATCHER...meaning catch the balls he should catch and maybe even some that he shouldn't be able to get to....lol.  Arm good enough to stop guys from stealing, field bunts, etc.  If he can hit, that's a bonus lol....whether the coaches will feel that way is a different thing, but a good catcher makes for an awfully happen pitching staff

You are right, most really good catchers really don't hit well, but most really good HS catchers do not really make good college catchers, so hitting is a plus to play another position, and so does hitting 90+.

Hope that makes sense.

Welcome Alf648 and TRCHALA!  Lots of good discussion on this thread, and all over the site.  Hope you'll stick around.  

My only 2 adds are: 

1.  Being a 2019, he still has time to do both in high school, perhaps some in travel ball (they always need an inning pitched here or there, or an extra catcher to give the primary one a break), so it isn't urgent to make a choice.  A lot can happen over the next couple of years.

2.  Just please be careful with the arm if he continues to do both. 

TPM posted:

Buckeye 2015 posted:

My son is a D1 pitcher.....with regard to catchers needing to be able to hit, he would probably rather have the opposite.  He could care less if his catcher can hit if he's A GOOD CATCHER...meaning catch the balls he should catch and maybe even some that he shouldn't be able to get to....lol.  Arm good enough to stop guys from stealing, field bunts, etc.  If he can hit, that's a bonus lol....whether the coaches will feel that way is a different thing, but a good catcher makes for an awfully happen pitching staff

You are right, most really good catchers really don't hit well, but most really good HS catchers do not really make good college catchers, so hitting is a plus to play another position, and so does hitting 90+.

Hope that makes sense.

TPM, I'm calling this question related enough to the OP that I don't consider it a hijack   ...

Curious, what do you mean by your statement that most really good HS catchers don't really make good college catchers?  Hadn't heard that before.

Alf648 / trchala 

Welcome aboard. I’ve been following this thread closely as my son catches and also pitches at times. Although,  he only pitched sparingly this past season.

Alf648: Having a son younger than yours, I don’t think I have much to add except that to make sure and ask him if he’s comfortable with the decision either way he decides.  If he wants to go for it and he winds up falling short, would there be any regrets? Would he regret giving up being a position player? Would he regret not trying to stay in the game longer (or possibly at a higher level) as a PO? 

Either way, it sounds like he has a nice set of options. 

cabbagedad posted:

TPM posted:

Buckeye 2015 posted:

My son is a D1 pitcher.....with regard to catchers needing to be able to hit, he would probably rather have the opposite.  He could care less if his catcher can hit if he's A GOOD CATCHER...meaning catch the balls he should catch and maybe even some that he shouldn't be able to get to....lol.  Arm good enough to stop guys from stealing, field bunts, etc.  If he can hit, that's a bonus lol....whether the coaches will feel that way is a different thing, but a good catcher makes for an awfully happen pitching staff

You are right, most really good catchers really don't hit well, but most really good HS catchers do not really make good college catchers, so hitting is a plus to play another position, and so does hitting 90+.

Hope that makes sense.

TPM, I'm calling this question related enough to the OP that I don't consider it a hijack   ...

Curious, what do you mean by your statement that most really good HS catchers don't really make good college catchers?  Hadn't heard that before.

Working with a HS pitching staff is a lot different than working with a college pitching staff. Most HS catchers don't end up as college catchers, usually at another position, or bullpen or back up guys.  If that's acceptable, then that's ok.

I was trying to point out how important hitting becomes if the player is recruited but the program isn't in need of a catcher asap.

JMO

Again - thanks to all.  It's an awesome resource to be able to see varying thoughtful opinions that have the weight of experience behind them

Trchala - I agree with the volume of throwing for "pre-showcase" warmups.  It seemed like the first 20 minutes was perfect and the next 30 minutes of throwdowns to third had more to do with them filling time because the schedule was a bit behind. 

Our potential Saturday night guy is a converted catcher coming off TJ surgery from a Juco. He does not have the "over the top" motion and is more 3/4. Mid 90's guy when healthy and working on improving secondary stuff. He pounds the zone and the coaches like that.

TPM posted:

Welcome Alf648 and TRCHALA,

My son played 4 positions before his sophmore year. Then they took the bat out of his hands and made him a PO. By that time he was pitching almost 90.

The coaches told him, son, you will get a great scholarship as a pitcher, maybe a chance to play professional ball.  As a ss, catcher or 3rd baseman, not so much.

They were absolutely correct.

Agree with others, your sons will have to figure out quickly what they want to do, because in today's world of recruiting, with the velo needed to get noticed, YOU CAN'T DO BOTH, and coaches shouldn't expect you to do both. 

Unless your sons can hit the cover off the ball, keep this in mind, programs use 1 catcher ( with the need for a backup) and 15-17 pitchers. 

Now, keep in mind that there are catchers who get converted to pitchers, in college and in professional ball. But you have to get there first.

Which position do you feel your sons will have more opportunity to make a college roster?

It's really hard to not being able to hit, when you love to hit and be in the lineup everyday, but as weird as it is, pitchers really enjoy being pitchers.

JMO

This is so true. Pitchers do like to be pitchers.  I would have never thought my son would want to be a PO, because he can flat out mash, but he loves being a PO.  Would he like to hit sometimes, probably, but most don't know the time commitment it takes in college to do both.  Also, the coaches don't make it easy to do both, and I don't believe that most coaches want their stud pitchers to hit.  Too much chance for them to get hurt, and good pitchers don't grow on trees.

Buckeye 2015 posted:

My son is a D1 pitcher.....with regard to catchers needing to be able to hit, he would probably rather have the opposite.  He could care less if his catcher can hit if he's A GOOD CATCHER...meaning catch the balls he should catch and maybe even some that he shouldn't be able to get to....lol.  Arm good enough to stop guys from stealing, field bunts, etc.  If he can hit, that's a bonus lol....whether the coaches will feel that way is a different thing, but a good catcher makes for an awfully happen pitching staff

Agreed. My son wants a guy to be able to catch him, and it is not easy to catch him.  If a catcher can't do all of the things a catcher needs to, like turning borderline pitches into strikes, blocking wp, etc., then the pitcher can be uncomfortable and start to aim his pitches.  Not good...

TPM posted:

cabbagedad posted:

TPM posted:

Buckeye 2015 posted:

My son is a D1 pitcher.....with regard to catchers needing to be able to hit, he would probably rather have the opposite.  He could care less if his catcher can hit if he's A GOOD CATCHER...meaning catch the balls he should catch and maybe even some that he shouldn't be able to get to....lol.  Arm good enough to stop guys from stealing, field bunts, etc.  If he can hit, that's a bonus lol....whether the coaches will feel that way is a different thing, but a good catcher makes for an awfully happen pitching staff

You are right, most really good catchers really don't hit well, but most really good HS catchers do not really make good college catchers, so hitting is a plus to play another position, and so does hitting 90+.

Hope that makes sense.

TPM, I'm calling this question related enough to the OP that I don't consider it a hijack   ...

Curious, what do you mean by your statement that most really good HS catchers don't really make good college catchers?  Hadn't heard that before.

Working with a HS pitching staff is a lot different than working with a college pitching staff. Most HS catchers don't end up as college catchers, usually at another position, or bullpen or back up guys.  If that's acceptable, then that's ok.

I was trying to point out how important hitting becomes if the player is recruited but the program isn't in need of a catcher asap.

JMO

 

 

I could be wrong but catchers are like SS.  Some schools recruit several good catchers, and several good SS's.  If they have multiple of each, they will/could find a place for them.  At son's D-1, they have 2 stud catchers.  One is a Top 10, D-1 catcher for this year's upcoming MLB Draft.  He catches the least of the 2 stud catchers, because he has the athleticism to play another position. They can both hit, so the coach gets them both in the line-up as much as possible.

rynoattack posted:

TPM posted:

cabbagedad posted:

TPM posted:

Buckeye 2015 posted:

My son is a D1 pitcher.....with regard to catchers needing to be able to hit, he would probably rather have the opposite.  He could care less if his catcher can hit if he's A GOOD CATCHER...meaning catch the balls he should catch and maybe even some that he shouldn't be able to get to....lol.  Arm good enough to stop guys from stealing, field bunts, etc.  If he can hit, that's a bonus lol....whether the coaches will feel that way is a different thing, but a good catcher makes for an awfully happen pitching staff

You are right, most really good catchers really don't hit well, but most really good HS catchers do not really make good college catchers, so hitting is a plus to play another position, and so does hitting 90+.

Hope that makes sense.

TPM, I'm calling this question related enough to the OP that I don't consider it a hijack   ...

Curious, what do you mean by your statement that most really good HS catchers don't really make good college catchers?  Hadn't heard that before.

Working with a HS pitching staff is a lot different than working with a college pitching staff. Most HS catchers don't end up as college catchers, usually at another position, or bullpen or back up guys.  If that's acceptable, then that's ok.

I was trying to point out how important hitting becomes if the player is recruited but the program isn't in need of a catcher asap.

JMO

 

 

I could be wrong but catchers are like SS.  Some schools recruit several good catchers, and several good SS's.  If they have multiple of each, they will/could find a place for them.  At son's D-1, they have 2 stud catchers.  One is a Top 10, D-1 catcher for this year's upcoming MLB Draft.  He catches the least of the 2 stud catchers, because he has the athleticism to play another position. They can both hit, so the coach gets them both in the line-up as much as possible.

Back when Curt Casali (Rays) was at Vanderbilt they were loaded with catchers. Then the Corbin converted an outfielder to catcher. They had catchers playing C, 1b, 3b, LF and DH. They were all good hitters who were drafted. Because they weren’t all the same class year three of them ultimately caught. 

rynoattack posted:

Buckeye 2015 posted:

My son is a D1 pitcher.....with regard to catchers needing to be able to hit, he would probably rather have the opposite.  He could care less if his catcher can hit if he's A GOOD CATCHER...meaning catch the balls he should catch and maybe even some that he shouldn't be able to get to....lol.  Arm good enough to stop guys from stealing, field bunts, etc.  If he can hit, that's a bonus lol....whether the coaches will feel that way is a different thing, but a good catcher makes for an awfully happen pitching staff

Agreed. My son wants a guy to be able to catch him, and it is not easy to catch him.  If a catcher can't do all of the things a catcher needs to, like turning borderline pitches into strikes, blocking wp, etc., then the pitcher can be uncomfortable and start to aim his pitches.  Not good...

Don't forget waiting for the dang ball to break or move!  Nothing aggravates me more than seeing a beautiful pitch get called a ball because the catcher thought it was going sideways, so he moved drastically to get it.

I don't think this thread is about whether the kid can catch or which catcher a  pitcher prefers to throw to, its about the type of player the college coach recruits.  Pretty much all the D1 coaches start looking for a catcher that appears able to hit D1 pitching, they don't start the process looking for a catcher that can't hit.   Having said that, most college coaches will not ignore a 90+ arm whether its on a catcher or ss.

I was curious and I asked my son if making his college dream come true, would he convert to a pitcher (or lets say any other position) and give up catching.

He thought about it and said that he would more than likely do what it took to make his team but only if it was the only way to keep playing.  If he had a chance at option A as a non catcher and option M as a catcher, he would choose catcher.

He said he loves catching guys no hitters.  The interaction between him and the pitchers.  He LOVES chucking guys outs on the base paths.  He said there are things you cant get anywhere else on the field except behind the plate. He HATES when the JV coach hit for him when he was a freshman last year.  His one travel coach would always run for him on the base paths which would infuriate him as he normally gets his own green light to steal whenever from other coaches.  He loves the at bats.  He would miss all that stuff way to much.    

Not sure ALF-  Maybe your son is different, or maybe he isn't.  Does he feel like he can be happy on the mound?

CollegeParentNoMore posted:

I don't think this thread is about whether the kid can catch or which catcher a  pitcher prefers to throw to, its about the type of player the college coach recruits.  Pretty much all the D1 coaches start looking for a catcher that appears able to hit D1 pitching, they don't start the process looking for a catcher that can't hit.   Having said that, most college coaches will not ignore a 90+ arm whether its on a catcher or ss.

Bingo!

It really comes down to having options based on the his talent as a position player versus pitcher.  If your son opens both doors then he has options to make a future decision.  Most DI coaches do not have many players that are two way players there are exceptions but usually not at catcher.  The number of two way players is a very low percentage or college players. 

If the travel coach is willing to let him do both then there is little reason he cannot be seen doing both through the summer.  In the end if he has a higher ceiling as a pitcher then it will be his decision to decide on the school and opportunity that presents itself.  It is safe to say that if he can compete as a catcher or for at bats as a DH then a coach may give him the opportunity to pitch and hit.  His performance once on campus will open or close doors relatively quickly.  Anyone that pitches is at risk of injury.  You can eliminate the risk by not pitching, but that eliminates an opportunity.  If he simply does not enjoy pitching and the satisfaction of the role then that is a different issue to work through.

Until you have college coaches aggressively recruiting develop both sides of the game as much as possible and see where it takes him.  This can be done safely if a coach is willing.  If he has not pitched he probably needs to build up to heavier work loads.  It sounds like at this point his pitching is more of a natural talent that needs to be nurtured.  That can occur relatively quickly.  Also, velocity does not equal success in a DI program but it will get him opportunities.

Create options, then hopefully he can make a choice based on the right school fit in all aspects. Obviously, if he is focusing on higher academic schools then the right fit is of importance. 

I am amazed at the number of players from my son's class that changed schools after their Freshman year.  What they thought was the right fit simply didn't work out.  

Best of luck in moving forward.

If the coaches/recruiters all saw him as a pitcher and didn't comment on his catching ability/numbers, I think that says a lot about what they're looking for or what they project him to be.  Although I haven't seen him, the metrics say catcher.  He's only 16 and has room to grow into a fine catcher.  There's only 1 catcher who actually plays on a college team though.  Then you have 10+ pitchers who have consistent roles.