I’ve been wondering lately, why is benching frowned upon by most baseball coaches? What is the harm in it? I have been benching for the past few months because of football and haven’t seen any negative effects.
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I follow and trust this guy. I don't always understand technically why, but basically it tightens up the shoulder and limits range of motion, especially bench and even more so if done incorrectly. I advise my son to do dumbbell bench, not too heavy and to do landmine presses.
https://ericcressey.com/should-pitchers-bench-press
https://ericcressey.com/3-more...-players-bench-press
Just my opinion.
My son is not a pitcher but I particularly remember one school who didn’t restrict their pitchers from benching, but they did use a shorter bench press bar to keep the shoulder capsules from opening up, which I “believe” reduces the risk of shoulder injury.
I think really old-school coaches don't like their throwers to be "muscle bound", because of perceived range of motion issues, like Go44dad said. There are also "new-school" coaches who don't like it because bad form can lead to problems. Keeping your elbows wide, and letting the bar drop all the way to your chest can stretch out the glenohumeral ligaments in your shoulder. Shoulder stability is critically important for throwers.
FWIW, I'm 6'3", 215 and can bench 300lb. However, I'm always out driven on the golf course (single digit HC, so it's not skill) and I can no longer throw long toss with my son, as I can't reach him.
Work the legs, core and decelerator muscles, that's it!
While an assistant coach was giving my son a tour of his school we saw the athletic facilities first. On the other side of campus we passed the weight room open to the general student population. The coach pointed to it and said "that's where the pitchers go to bench press".
My son had a great fall his freshman year, and decided to devote the off season to really bulking up and putting on some weight (he is a catcher). Over the winter he did get quite a bit bigger and would tell me how much his bench was improving.
Come spring workouts (actually winter), he couldn't throw without significant pain. After examination it turned out he had a torn labrum. He was fine in the fall and my guess is, is that with all the guys left to their own devices in the weight room.... the amount of weight they could bench became a "pissing contest". He overdid it and tore up his shoulder (we don't know this for a fact, but that is both of our best guesses because during bench press exercises is when he first started to notice symptoms.) As a throwing athlete, that is an exercise I would stay away from.
I know son has done some DB bench in his workouts in college and your question prompted me to look at his off season workout regimen from the Mets. Only position players and catcher do DB bench, no benching for pitchers. I know these all vary but figured i'd add.
Most programs in our area, use a Swiss Bar for bench press to protect the shoulder. Benching with a straight bar is not recommended for throwers.
Someone mentioned that HS weight rooms have "pissing contests" as the competitve nature of athletes overcomes common sense. Those "contests" happen all the time - dont even think that college lifting (under the theoretical supervision of expert trainers) controls the boys' hormones. Lifting can be dangerous and career ending. Here is a tweet I just got from a D1 program - anyone think this is ok? Yet what you see here is the norm.
Goosegg posted:Someone mentioned that HS weight rooms have "pissing contests" as the competitve nature of athletes overcomes common sense. Those "contests" happen all the time - dont even think that college lifting (under the theoretical supervision of expert trainers) controls the boys' hormones. Lifting can be dangerous and career ending. Here is a tweet I just got from a D1 program - anyone think this is ok? Yet what you see here is the norm.
This happened to might son, lifting in HS with the baseball team being supervised by one of the coaches decided it would be fun to have a benching contest. The day after my son had a game on Saturday he felt pain in his shoulder. I asked him was it from throwing he said he tweaked it during the HS workout. He missed his entire Junior year and was not able to throw again until fall of senior year. Never fully recovered maybe 80% of what he had.
My son is a baseball player and football player and we had a high school head football coach that is a friend of ours tell us to not let him do regular bar bench press. He said that it would limit range of throwing motion and actually hurt his throwing. He also said that his quarterbacks don't bench and there are plenty of exercises they can do to gain strength in their chest that would be more beneficial.
You don't have to practice it, but if you're not strong enough to pump out a few reps with 225 on the bench; you have no ability to hit for real power. Same would go for pitchers throwing serious velo. (95+)
Dr. Josh Heenan's 90mph formula has a very nice metrics list to determine if one can throw 90
The bench is the most useless lifting movement for any sport. The motion does not occur in sport. I tell my football players that the only time you would use that movement on the football field is if you were just pancaked and the player was laying on you. The bench supports the body and shuts off the core, and that is one problem with benching. The core is the key to all sports movements. When it can shut down (laying on the bench) then the body becomes confused. There is not a sport where you are supported and pushing something like in a bench press movement. As far as relating bench pressing 225 to having power in baseball, that is just nonsense. Show me some/any research that would suggest that that is the case. I could show you player after player, that crushes the ball, but couldn't bench 225 one time. I could go on and on, but bench pressing is a useless movement that is all about "what is your bench?". Unless you are a power lifter, competing in the bench press, it is useless, and throwers especially, should avoid the movement.
synchronized swimming, or pairs skating?
good to hear that it's not useful in BB. Both sons lift quite a bit, but suck at Bench press.
I agree benching is useless for baseball, but I would think it's important for football in developing upper body strength (linemen to block, LB to shed blocks, etc.). After all, it is used at the NFL combine.
But this is a baseball thread and I don't know much about football...
Bench has just been around forever. That is why it is still used. There are better ways to judge true strength, but they are just not used.
Goosegg posted:Someone mentioned that HS weight rooms have "pissing contests" as the competitve nature of athletes overcomes common sense. Those "contests" happen all the time - dont even think that college lifting (under the theoretical supervision of expert trainers) controls the boys' hormones. Lifting can be dangerous and career ending. Here is a tweet I just got from a D1 program - anyone think this is ok? Yet what you see here is the norm.
100% think it is ok. That is a trap bar deadlift and his technique is pretty much flawless.
Goosegg posted:Someone mentioned that HS weight rooms have "pissing contests" as the competitve nature of athletes overcomes common sense. Those "contests" happen all the time - dont even think that college lifting (under the theoretical supervision of expert trainers) controls the boys' hormones. Lifting can be dangerous and career ending. Here is a tweet I just got from a D1 program - anyone think this is ok? Yet what you see here is the norm.
Yeah, I don't think its okay at all. I think its stupid. Too high risk w/ minimal reward. Plenty of safer ways to build lower body strength. My son also got hurt doing something similar in the HS weight room - without proper supervision. Cost him his junior year and following summer.
Nothing wrong with any lift if done right.
I think the guys at Driveline actually recommend bench press for pitchers. I can see how it could hinder throwing motion, but the guys at Driveline tend to be ahead of the curve on most things.
Goosegg posted:Someone mentioned that HS weight rooms have "pissing contests" as the competitve nature of athletes overcomes common sense. Those "contests" happen all the time - dont even think that college lifting (under the theoretical supervision of expert trainers) controls the boys' hormones. Lifting can be dangerous and career ending. Here is a tweet I just got from a D1 program - anyone think this is ok? Yet what you see here is the norm.
What kind of dummy dead lifts heavy weight. No way a pro would ever risk that. 
ironhorse posted:Goosegg posted:Someone mentioned that HS weight rooms have "pissing contests" as the competitve nature of athletes overcomes common sense. Those "contests" happen all the time - dont even think that college lifting (under the theoretical supervision of expert trainers) controls the boys' hormones. Lifting can be dangerous and career ending. Here is a tweet I just got from a D1 program - anyone think this is ok? Yet what you see here is the norm.
What kind of dummy dead lifts heavy weight. No way a pro would ever risk that.
I admit it, I'm afraid to watch the video...
What drives me nuts is so many
adbono posted:Goosegg posted:Someone mentioned that HS weight rooms have "pissing contests" as the competitve nature of athletes overcomes common sense. Those "contests" happen all the time - dont even think that college lifting (under the theoretical supervision of expert trainers) controls the boys' hormones. Lifting can be dangerous and career ending. Here is a tweet I just got from a D1 program - anyone think this is ok? Yet what you see here is the norm.
Yeah, I don't think its okay at all. I think its stupid. Too high risk w/ minimal reward. Plenty of safer ways to build lower body strength. My son also got hurt doing something similar in the HS weight room - without proper supervision. Cost him his junior year and following summer.
There is no way your son got hurt doing something similar to what was posted via twitter by Princeton baseball. The player shown in that video is executing flawless technique and if anything will be less prone to injury with his strength gains. High school players, in an unsupervised weightroom, trying to one up each other on bench press is most definitely a recipe for injury and lost playing time.
I think the most important thing you can do is to educate parents about what can happen with young athletes in an unsupervised weightroom. I am not sure how you handled your son's situation but if it had been me, I am requesting a meeting with the HC, AD, Principal...whatever it takes to make sure that my son, or any other athlete for that matter, was never left unsupervised in a weightroom again.
"Injury rates in settings with strict supervision and proper technique are lower than those that occur in other sports or general recess play at school." From the American Academy of Pediatrics
Most articles are now having pitchers do dumb bell press. I believe even Driveline is this way. If you do bench correctly your shoulders are locked in and you don't have good range of motion in your shoulders and that is counter productive for pitchers!
Ohio Dad posted:The bench is the most useless lifting movement for any sport. The motion does not occur in sport. I tell my football players that the only time you would use that movement on the football field is if you were just pancaked and the player was laying on you. The bench supports the body and shuts off the core, and that is one problem with benching. The core is the key to all sports movements. When it can shut down (laying on the bench) then the body becomes confused. There is not a sport where you are supported and pushing something like in a bench press movement. As far as relating bench pressing 225 to having power in baseball, that is just nonsense. Show me some/any research that would suggest that that is the case. I could show you player after player, that crushes the ball, but couldn't bench 225 one time. I could go on and on, but bench pressing is a useless movement that is all about "what is your bench?". Unless you are a power lifter, competing in the bench press, it is useless, and throwers especially, should avoid the movement.
Lots of exercises are designed to isolate a body part. The same can be said for many skill drills - certain tee drills and throwing drills come to mind. This doesn't automatically make them useless. I'd need a different argument before I said to my kid "don't do it".
Simply put, your body should only push/pull whatever it can, weight wise, unsupported (by a bench or machine) with the core activated and with good technique. Training in non-functional positions (bench press laying on your back supported by a bench) is the old fashioned way. Nothing works the same when laying on your back, on a bench, as it does in a functional sport position of standing on your feet (for example). The scapular stabilizers work different, the cuff works different, the brain works different. The simple fact that the arm never moves as it does in benching, as a baseball player that is, makes me wonder why you would want to train that motion. For an athlete (especially rotational sport athletes) benching to isolate pecs just isn't as good as doing the same chest "isolation" work in standing, core turned on, body working athletically, functionally, and how it is supposed to work in an athletic position, using a cable crossover or freedom trainer type of device to isolate the chest. Old fashioned thoughts just never seem to go away. There are better ways to get strong for baseball and sports in general. Most athletes never get exposed to better ways. Just how it is.
Ohio Dad posted:Simply put, your body should only push/pull whatever it can, weight wise, unsupported (by a bench or machine) with the core activated and with good technique. Training in non-functional positions (bench press laying on your back supported by a bench) is the old fashioned way. Nothing works the same when laying on your back, on a bench, as it does in a functional sport position of standing on your feet (for example). The scapular stabilizers work different, the cuff works different, the brain works different. The simple fact that the arm never moves as it does in benching, as a baseball player that is, makes me wonder why you would want to train that motion. For an athlete (especially rotational sport athletes) benching to isolate pecs just isn't as good as doing the same chest "isolation" work in standing, core turned on, body working athletically, functionally, and how it is supposed to work in an athletic position, using a cable crossover or freedom trainer type of device to isolate the chest. Old fashioned thoughts just never seem to go away. There are better ways to get strong for baseball and sports in general. Most athletes never get exposed to better ways. Just how it is.
Great post, although I would hope you agree that not every exercise needs to be functional or sport-specific. Great example would be variations of push-ups, which are a closed-chain exercise, while throwing a baseball is an open-chain movement. 100% agree with bench press not allowing proper scapular movement along with minimizing shoulder stabilization work with rotator cuff muscles. DB bench and variations, push-ups and variations, and standing 1-arm cable press are much better options...especially for pitchers!!!! Scary thing is that there are still baseball strength coaches, at the highest levels, who still hang on to the old school ways of training!
Came across this a few years ago